Search found 36 matches

by Anaphase
Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:09 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

You seem to be working under the assumption that I ever agreed with Searle's argument. My position is thus: 1. Searles argument is crap. Even assuming all his axioms are true, it doesn't follow without twisted and useless redefinitions, and there's little evidence most of his axioms are true. 2. Th...
by Anaphase
Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

So, hypothetically, maybe a Turing machine could simulate consciousness - but if consciousness is dynamic, rather than static, it could only do it be also simulating the entire world the consciousness interacts with - in which case, the Turing machine still doesn't have any understanding, though it...
by Anaphase
Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:37 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

My whole point was that there are problems that are solvable that are not "computable" in the strict sense of the term. So far, no-one's ever found one . Good job missing the *entire* point... So just what was the point then? It seemed to me the issue under discussion was whether there ex...
by Anaphase
Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:28 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

Well, people also propose things like simulating all electrons in a brain. The complete conversation tree is hardly a more extreme scenario. I don't think you appreciate just how big the tree really is. You can even imagine a tree combined with a more advanced program, with the more complicated par...
by Anaphase
Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:19 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

My whole point was that there are problems that are solvable that are not "computable" in the strict sense of the term. So far, no-one's ever found one . Busy beaver function for a 4-state, 2-symbol machine. What? A noteworthy fact is that, theoretically, every finite sequence of Σ values...
by Anaphase
Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:37 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

Griffin wrote:My whole point was that there are problems that are solvable that are not "computable" in the strict sense of the term.

So far, no-one's ever found one.
by Anaphase
Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:44 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

Processing speed has nothing to do with anything, as long as the internal process is consistent within itself. Computational speed is only relevant if the output is needed in a specific finite period of time. You keep saying it has nothing to do with anything, but you haven't said why. The question...
by Anaphase
Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:13 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

If you don't think this would work or don't believe the AI would really be conscious while in the rocks but would be conscious while in the special finite state machine then you are the one proposing some kind of dualism, soul or magical conscious matter. Yep, I sure would. If that's what I believe...
by Anaphase
Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:16 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

I'm not sure I see the problem, the purpose of the man in the room seems clear. He there to interrogate the process. To look inside it and see what it does. The system is the mechanical process of him manipulating the cards according to the instructions to output answers to questions. The instructi...
by Anaphase
Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:40 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

Name a program that can translate Chinese with no referents. An AI which can learn to translate chinese without any books on chinese, without any context, without any instruction, without any chinese to reference? show me a human who can. You're not asking for an intelligent machine on par with a h...
by Anaphase
Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:26 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

2. Pylyshyn (1980) in The conscious mind: In search of a fundamental theory describes a scenario where you have a single neuron in your brain replaced by a silicon chip that exactly replicates it's state and function. The assumption is that neither you or anyone else would notice any difference in ...
by Anaphase
Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:16 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experiment
Replies: 349
Views: 40108

Re: The Assumptions of Searle’s Chinese Room Thought Experim

Another angle is to look at the historical context in which Searle developed the argument - at that time, natural language processing in AI consisted of manipulating language symbolically. This approach ultimately failed and has been replaced in modern times with statistically based machine learnin...
by Anaphase
Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:54 pm UTC
Forum: Fictional Science
Topic: Alternative versions of Physics
Replies: 15
Views: 5219

Re: Alternative versions of Physics

Another question would be if you could come up with a world that looks something like ours at the "human" scale (whatever "human" really means in that world), but is radically different at every other scale (maybe still following a QFT/GR framework but without retaining anything ...
by Anaphase
Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:25 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: The Expanding Universe: Quick question
Replies: 11
Views: 2038

Re: The Expanding Universe: Quick question

The membrane is a mathematical idea, it isn't a physical thing. The idea as I understand it is that the mostly empty three-dimensional space we inhabit can be mapped consistently onto a much more crowded two dimensional space.
by Anaphase
Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:54 pm UTC
Forum: Religious Wars
Topic: Macs can get viruses
Replies: 35
Views: 14176

Re: Macs can get viruses

a.) Write a virus for Macs that will only have the potential to get about 10% of PCs globally. b.) Write a virus for WIndows that will only have the potential to get about 90% of PCs globally. Ten years ago the figures would have been more like 7% and 93%. So why was the Classic MacOs virus situati...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:24 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 0964: "Dorm Poster"
Replies: 155
Views: 39195

Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

What do you think? Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine... That is, just like the goddamn original artwork ... that is, only with a stupid looking lens included? I assumed antoinelepenseur knew that and was trying to appeal to the har...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:09 pm UTC
Forum: Religious Wars
Topic: Macs can get viruses
Replies: 35
Views: 14176

Re: Macs can get viruses

Current mac OSes are based on UNIX, which has been made for multi-user systems since 1970. Permissions ('who/what can do what with what') were central to it from the start. Windows was meant for personal computers only, security has historically been lax and many programs required admin privileges ...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:00 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

It doesn't make any sense to imagine a computer that has universally passed the Turing test. Because if it existed and you were aware of it, then you would know that it was a computer, and thus if you were to text chat with it it would automatically fail the test for you. The test is explicitly bli...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:10 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: The Expanding Universe: Quick question
Replies: 11
Views: 2038

Re: The Expanding Universe: Quick question

Same thing with the big chrunch. You won't be able to stand somewhere and watch every thing crash together to a point over there. Everywhere is the point it converges on. *head explode*Can you give me a way to visualize this? It sounds so crazy, but I suspect that it isn't as head-explodey as it se...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:26 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

No computer has ever passed the canonical Turing test. There's a lot more to it than a couple of minutes of simple chatting. No actually that's pretty much exactly what the test is. From Turing's original paper: Interrogator In the first line of your sonnet which reads 'Shall I compare thee to a su...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:58 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

You're looking for an irreducible ghost in the machine, and then trying to reduce it. "Free will" is an idea that derives from a pre-scientific worldview, it's like trying to work out the physics of chi . For billions of people over many centuries chi was as much a part of consensus realit...
by Anaphase
Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:44 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 0964: "Dorm Poster"
Replies: 155
Views: 39195

Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

antoinelepenseur wrote:What do you think?

Make the lens a bit thinner, and it could work as a CD cover, with the lens positioned over the spine...
by Anaphase
Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:06 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Why does light move at the speed it does?
Replies: 83
Views: 12946

Re: Q about the speed of light

rflrob wrote:The question "why" implies some intentionality behind the causation,

News to me.
by Anaphase
Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:54 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

[nb: context restored] 'Free will' in the sense of 'is there some aspect of concious behaviour that is not dictated by initial conditions" seems to me to be in a class of problems that have no possible way of being tested. I can think of one situation that could be considered a disproof: if a c...
by Anaphase
Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:02 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

"We", or, better "I", is the part of your left brain (for most people) responsible for the phenomena called identity or consciousness. Clever...but suppose, say, that new evidence determined that some decision-making did go on in that brain region, would you reverse your positio...
by Anaphase
Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:06 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

"Free will" works in much the same way. It is often a useful approximation for us to assume that we have control over our decision-making process, because it appears to us that we do. Scientific evidence, however, points to the contrary notion that, in fact, our "free will" and ...
by Anaphase
Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:00 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

'Free will' in the sense of 'is there some aspect of concious behaviour that is not dictated by initial conditions" seems to me to be in a class of problems that have no possible way of being tested. I can think of one situation that could be considered a disproof: if a classical deterministic...
by Anaphase
Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:07 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

You get the same effect no matter which way you go. If "free will" is uniquely defined as referring to the fairy story, then people get the sense that ordinary, mundane will is less free. I'd argue that "free will", in absence of the fairy story, doesn't actually have any specia...
by Anaphase
Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:21 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

'Free will' in the sense of 'is there some aspect of concious behaviour that is not dictated by initial conditions" seems to me to be in a class of problems that have no possible way of being tested. I can think of one situation that could be considered a disproof: if a classical deterministic...
by Anaphase
Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:57 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 0964: "Dorm Poster"
Replies: 155
Views: 39195

Re: 0964: "Dorm Poster"

But I'm not surprised that only the first part (from what I've read here) makes it onto the posters. That part is at least kind of pretty. I rather like both. Original LP, front and back covers: http://i.imgur.com/g7uSDl.jpg 1983 Japan CD release, front and back covers: http://i.imgur.com/UsU8el.pn...
by Anaphase
Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:43 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Is this real?
Replies: 25
Views: 5207

Re: Is this real?

Apparently what makes this demonstration unusual is that this particular superconductor allows some of the flux to penetrate all the way through, though I agree it is rather odd that people are acting as if they've never seen the Meissner effect before. I was under the impression that it was almost ...
by Anaphase
Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:10 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

Would an archetypal brain in a vat have free will, despite being incapable of action? I would argue yes ("I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space" etc.), but the theological debate that you state seems to tie it into the ability to act - i.e. it's less a...
by Anaphase
Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:22 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: "borrowing" energy
Replies: 25
Views: 3576

Re: "borrowing" energy

If your particle physics comrades tell you there is a difference, tell them they are just being chauvinists. You have an effective field theory, you quantize it, boom, you call it a particle. I imagine this is why Feynmann never brought up virtual particles in the famous "magnets" clip--a...
by Anaphase
Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:44 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

tomandlu wrote:If free will does not exist, then we have no choice in the choice we make.

Why do you want one?
by Anaphase
Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:40 pm UTC
Forum: Religious Wars
Topic: Metric versus US Customary/Imperial for Everyday Use
Replies: 109
Views: 34180

Re: Metric versus US Customary/Imperial for Everyday Use

Very true - I know that especially around Detroit (except for the 5 roads that come out of Detroit into the suburbs) everything is a mile grid. That's why I know what a mile actually is. It's just the distance between 13 and 14 Mile. The east-west roads are mile roads, and the north-south roads are...
by Anaphase
Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:28 pm UTC
Forum: Science
Topic: Wait, can free will exist?
Replies: 247
Views: 23852

Re: Wait, can free will exist?

free will is expressed not in the ability to confound causality, but in making conciousness part of causality. That's a fine way to understand the existing, physical thing we're "really" talking about most of the time when we say "free will". It is not, however, what philosophic...

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