Search found 88 matches

by avocadoowl
Thu May 01, 2014 8:07 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Someone wondered if Sterling was still actually owner of the Clippers. At this moment in time he is, but a vote is forthcoming among the 29 other owners to force him to sell. My impression is that it is a formality -it requires three-quarters vote, but it will likely be unanimous or close to it. Th...
by avocadoowl
Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:21 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Randall really can be a little fascist C**t at times - for example the anti-PUA rant toon. But heck - we are debating an individual's online toon here, he can say whatever he wants. Which brings me to this one. Oh dear, oh dear. The arguments around Free Speech are never correct, they always miss t...
by avocadoowl
Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:24 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I do seem to recall George Orwell penning a little fable about a world precisely like that. ;-) No, Orwell wrote about a world where the totalitarian government punished thoughtcrime. You're falling into the same trap of conflating the no-legal-consequences version of free speech with the no-social...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:13 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

) why are you suppressing that guy's freedom of speech? Because his entire intent and desire is to punish and silence someone. 2) are you claiming that that is what happened in the Mozilla case? No, not hardly. My original post was directed at the comic itself, which makes no reference to the Mozil...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:56 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

How can you support boycotts but not their results? If people stop buying from a company because of the actions of someone in that company, why can't the company respond to the boycott by firing the person? So you would be okay if we all boycotted Mozilla because of Eich, but we didn't expressly sa...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:45 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

So you support boycotts then? Because those are certainly speech. Boycotts are most definitely something I support. It's the primary way I enact my own choices in the "Marketplace of Free Speech" - someone from company X says something I don't like? Fine, I don't buy their stuff. To hell ...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:27 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

The difference is that I also vehemently support the efforts of all and sundry to use other means (i.e. apart from unconstitutional legal prohibitions), be they social or economic or whatever, in order to "chill" or silence the everloving fuck out of the views those neo-Nazis marching thr...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:10 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Weeks wrote:I went and looked it up because I'm not in the US, but people do protest KKK rallies.


Chilling!
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:05 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

That is no citation, that is waving you hand vaguely in a direction and saying "these guys over there have something which will totally support my point". At least link a specific essay. Sorry, I edited my post before you replied. My point in referencing them was that their entire purpose...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:04 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

As for the former poster known as bonsaipark, I don't think he was a troll, but he might be an undiagnosed diabetic - that can make people grumpy &/or paranoid, and impair logical thought & discourse. was bonsai here? the record guy? if he got on your case, my guess is he didn't like the di...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:08 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

What is transference discrimination? When someone tries to "make up for" discrimination by discriminating against some "non-marginalized" group that they're not a part of. Kind of like what Obama does all the time towards other countries. I need examples. Though, if this is basi...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:57 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

But the intent behind bigotry, the reasons why some is bigoted are truly irrelevant. It is not the oppressed individuals' responsibility to to determine whether someone is sincerely hateful, ignorant, confused, whatever. It is their right to yell at their oppressors no matter the reason for the opp...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:42 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

For one thing, we're not denying employers the right to fire anyone for any reason (though some classes are protected and more probably should be) . If I'm reading that correctly, and the anyone in question is LGBT employees, then you may want to check your notes. I bolded the relevant portion for ...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:15 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I really wonder how much of this boils down to that annoying underlying Internet belief that all dissent is bullying and all bullying is wrong. The whole "we were all bullied as kids, so we're now going to accept everyone no matter what."
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:12 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

For one thing, we're not denying employers the right to fire anyone for any reason (though some classes are protected and more probably should be) . If I'm reading that correctly, and the anyone in question is LGBT employees, then you may want to check your notes. I bolded the relevant portion for ...
by avocadoowl
Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:52 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

The problem with the first view isn't that it's wront but that it completely misses the point. For one thing, we're not denying employers the right to fire anyone for any reason (though some classes are protected and more probably should be). For another, firing someone isn't a thing that happened....
by avocadoowl
Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:47 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Wait, wait, wait. You oppose Prop 8 but you strenuously defend it because to support it is a right of political activity. Why are you not strenuously defending the boycott as a right of freedom of speech, despite your opposition to it? Go back and read where I answered this the last time, or the ti...
by avocadoowl
Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:55 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Right. So despite all this talk of what's morally right and wrong apart from strict legal rights, you fall back on whether the act in question is legally permitted? No, I fall back on whether terrorism and political participation have equivalent moral status. I find that they don't: one is not a ri...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:41 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

DeeperThought wrote: There are boycotts against companies who do business with Israel. Those boycotters tend to have valid points of their own, and I see nothing wrong with their choice to boycott even though I don't involve myself in the Israel/Palestine debate. If you think the KKK isn't any wors...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:12 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Trying to prevent someone from retaining their high-paying job at a company I do business with after they donate heavily to the KKK is not bad. Yes it most certainly is because the definition of what constitutes a bad group (such as the KKK) is entirely subjective. Remember the UN had a resolution ...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:08 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

We know he really did act against gay marriage, whereas many of those accused of communist ties had no such connections. We spoke against the CEO and public face of a progressively-minded company who acted against gay marriage, not just any old run-of-the-mill employee. (How the fuck are you and ot...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:24 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

It's an action that Eich took as a citizen, and one that you cannot seek to restrict and still claim to be a proponent of democracy or of a just society. No one is restricting Eich's right to donate to political campaigns. "Opposing [...] equality does not make someone a [bigot]." I don't...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:00 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

25 years ago gay marriage wasn't even an issue. The progress that's been made is just remarkable. You just cannot expect the whole world to come around that quickly. And we can't expect it to come around at all if we don't fight for it. Until now, a relatively meek approach seems to have worked jus...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:41 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

25 years ago gay marriage wasn't even an issue. The progress that's been made is just remarkable. You just cannot expect the whole world to come around that quickly. And we can't expect it to come around at all if we don't fight for it. Until now, a relatively meek approach seems to have worked jus...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 4:35 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

So Eich giving money to cement gays' status as subhuman is irrelevant This kind of hyperbole just to prove your point is not going to help anyone. Aren't we going a little overboard here? When I hear "subhuman" I think of concentration camps and gas chambers. It doesn't matter. The oppres...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:20 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

The thread is 23 pages, of course I didn't read more than a few introductory posts and a few of the last posts; I have too much to do. Of course the board was well within its rights to accept his resignation. I just don't see why I should care what Mozilla's CEO believes unless it (adversely) affec...
by avocadoowl
Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:59 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Are we seriously suggesting that fundamentalist Christians should be barred from all high-profile jobs on account of their beliefs? That's horrifying. Way to not read the thread. Eich was CEO of a company with a stated mission of diversity and acceptance. Donating to Prop 8 directly contradicts tha...
by avocadoowl
Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:42 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Do you really not understand the difference between a bigoted CEO versus a bigoted guy who works in accounting? How one is the face of the company and has a huge say in how the company is run? Everyone is entitled to his own little bigotries, even a CEO. What if Eich had been a little more discrete...
by avocadoowl
Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:30 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

The issue I had with your posts is that it seemed like you had much less issue with, or at least spent much less time discussing, the wrongness of Prop 8 versus your perceived wrongness of the boycott. It seemed hypocritical to me. However, in this comment, it does seem like you're maintaining that ...
by avocadoowl
Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:27 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

None of us in this thread would advocate, support, or probably even engage in a boycott targeted at a company with some bigoted average employees. Are you sure you can speak for everyone in the thread? the people I'm arguing with don't seem to have a consistent story on any of the details here. May...
by avocadoowl
Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:58 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

You're not going to answer my question? Hm? I think I have answered all of your questions. Perhaps something more like a considered response would help me figure out what it is that you're not yet clear on. I'm not sure what's more no holds barred, any means necessary, than a constitutional amendme...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:55 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Yeah, there's no doubt that some of the boycotters were doing it for the wrong reasons. Of course, that doesn't mean that the boycott was wrong, any more than any other cause with followers who aren't saints (ie every cause in human history)... What would the "right reasons" be in this ca...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:44 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

But freedom of speech and freedom to marry are both fundamental rights protected by the Constitution (and the current court battles, since Windsor, are unanimously finding that that right to marry applies to same-sex couples). Why does one action, fighting against the freedom to marry, count as adv...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:10 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Of course you don't understand it. It's completely nonsensical. After all, under his "logic," this whole debate should be about the fact that Eich shouldn't have had the "ethical right" to donate to Prop 8 in the first place. Prop 8's sole goal was to take away the right of gay ...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:28 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Of course you don't understand it. It's completely nonsensical. After all, under his "logic," this whole debate should be about the fact that Eich shouldn't have had the "ethical right" to donate to Prop 8 in the first place. Prop 8's sole goal was to take away the right of gay ...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:24 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I'm not understanding jpk's argument - it seems to me that he's arguing that the ethical thing for people who oppose Prop 8 to do is to donate money to the next Prop 8 campaign that comes around. Okay, not donate directly, but indirectly by giving money to someone who they know is likely to donate ...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:41 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

And you're still confused by the fact that nobody ever has said that Eich should not have been allowed or should have been prevented from donating to Prop 8. That's the crux you're missing. And once he did donate, I'm allowed to exercise my right to stop supporting him. If I owned a business, and b...
by avocadoowl
Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:18 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I disagree with those who claim that the boycott was an attempt to suppress Eich's freedom of speech; There are two subtle points of confusion here. First of all, the issue is not so much about his freedom of speech, but his freedom of conscience. He has a belief (which, once again, I find repellen...
by avocadoowl
Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:10 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Is this a joke? There is a party being ganged up upon here, but it's not rich, straight white guys like Eich. People standing up for gays and demanding they be acknowledged as human is a reaction to centuries of gays being "ganged up on." Oh, please. Nobody was standing up for anyone here...
by avocadoowl
Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:47 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 178890

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

The boycott didn't call for Mozilla to fire Eich, it called for him to step down from the position of CEO of a company that claims to officially support equality and inclusion for LGBT people. Not because of what he said , but because of what he did : giving financial support to Prop 8, an action t...

Go to advanced search