## Search found 52 matches

- Thu May 08, 2014 4:07 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Collatz Binary Decision Tree (Much Improved Version)
- Replies:
**1** - Views:
**2030**

### Collatz Binary Decision Tree (Much Improved Version)

So I realize my last post was likely very difficult to read. I've tried to improve the clarity as much as possible. I'm also including a recursive decision tree for illustrative purposes. http://i.imgur.com/83wXdhh.jpg The binary notation of any number to be tested in the Collatz Conjecture contains...

- Tue May 06, 2014 10:09 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Collatz Conjecture Progress
- Replies:
**2** - Views:
**2004**

### Re: Collatz Conjecture Progress

Here's some simple Python analysis code if that helps anyone. Each of the procedures is designed to accept the previous procedure's output as input. (i.e. collatz > verbose_path > wave_path) Sorry I didn't really comment it at all, but as I mentioned, I live in a social vacuum in regards to these pu...

- Tue May 06, 2014 7:05 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Collatz Conjecture Progress
- Replies:
**2** - Views:
**2004**

### Collatz Conjecture Progress

From what I can tell off of Wikipedia and Wolfram, it doesn't look like this is currently known. Regrettably, I live in a social vacuum of mathematical pursuits, so I've come here in the hopes that someone can tell me if this is really new information or simply a retread. Brief Collatz Conjecture re...

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:16 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

At this point, it seems all we have left to discuss is philosophy, and since that is not the reason for this forum, I think I'll be moving on.

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:03 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I wasn't objecting to the non-G-rated nature of the LEGOs-up-the-butt example. Sure, the question "how many ways are there to stack zero books?" doesn't have a lot of bearing on the real world, and as such is not really something one would sensibly ask in actual conversation. (I assume th...

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:35 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

Alternatively:

-Call the police! I've killed a man one way!

*Police arrive*

-So how did you kill him?

-I didn't.

This sounds stupid, but when you're high on Math, it's normal.

-Call the police! I've killed a man one way!

*Police arrive*

-So how did you kill him?

-I didn't.

This sounds stupid, but when you're high on Math, it's normal.

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:15 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I suspect the LEGOs-up-the-butt thing isn't really going to get anyone anywhere, but since you mention it: if you're opposed to the idea that there's one way to stick no LEGOs up your butt, how many ways do you think there are? Are you saying there are no ways? To me it seems that "There are n...

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:12 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

So what you're saying is, you STILL don't understand what has been explained so far? "Better learning though hard work" means you, the learner, should work hard. Not that you should be obstinate and abrasive to those attempting to explain something to you. I'm saying I accept the mathemat...

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:05 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I don't have a problem with your "conviction", if that's what you're pleased to call it. I would've given you the benefit of the doubt for your hostile and abrasive tone as well: plenty of people are irritating in ignorance. But when it was pointed out to you that you were antagonizing th...

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:56 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

You could also read the forums in a smaller font or sent through a machine translation and back, if your goal was to throw obstacles up in your own path because you can't be bothered to think things through unless it's difficult for you. And your question was answered immediately with no circularit...

- Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:23 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I don't recall suggesting that I intentionally antagonized any of you. I took a radical stance and threw some bravado behind it. Many of you seem rather fast to yell "troll" at every damn situation. If I'd been putting you all on, it'd be one thing, but I wasn't brought around until phlip'...

- Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:22 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I can't really speak much more to the topic, since I think it's been covered nicely here (and I agree pretty much with what phlip, Yakk, PM 2Ring and others have said about it). I will say to the OP that it's great that you've come to understand this concept even though it's not strictly part of yo...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:43 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

Points taken, however the course-provided program fails as spectacularly as mine for negative numbers (i.e. returns 1 every time), and while mathematically incorrect, anyone who doesn't have the benefit of this thread's information will input factorial(0) and be left scratching their heads. If you ...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:36 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I already had a headache from browsing through this and seeing user Eugene_Nier's Christian conservative spam X( I applaud people for taking this guy so seriously and genuinely trying to help, but I honestly feel like you guys just gave him a fish. I would agree that teaching him to fish - getting ...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:55 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

Point the first: code tags. Point the second: you should be thinking about what your function returns in edge cases like n <= 0 because, sure as shit, in a real program somebody will try feeding it a number less than zero, or a float, or a string, and that person is going to hate you when it silent...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:34 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

So what did your program do for n=0? Seems like you should be more upset you didn't think about error checking, rather than what the community of mathematicians have generally agreed upon is a convenient thing to mean when we write 0!. And if your program did indeed error check and didn't spit out ...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:16 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

Some words that will hopefully trigger a penny-drop regarding the "empty product" idea (at least, they did for me, when I was learning this stuff)... Say you had a sequence of numbers, and you wanted to find their sum, by going through them one by one, and keeping a running total. At each...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:24 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

BTW, this is a truly awesome community. No better way to learn that to argue an opposing view to people who know more than you. I'd like to thank you all for your comments.

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:14 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

0^0 is, in general, an indeterminate form, and if it appears in an equation you usually have to work out where it came from and hence what value it should take. It just so happens that in most of the applications that you're likely to see it (such as in a definition of the gamma function), it turns...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:42 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

You can, depending on your definition . I'm afraid that's still a little out of my league, but why do I think we're at some point going to get a power of 0? Do you have a problem with that? Look at the exponencial curve, e^x http://imageshack.us/a/img820/9269/o0p0.png Do you think there's going to ...

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:29 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

brenok wrote:You can, depending on your definition.

I'm afraid that's still a little out of my league, but why do I think we're at some point going to get a power of 0?

- Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:26 am UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

I'm still leaning towards troll, but just in case... If 0 isn't a number, then seriously, what's 1-1? Add up all the places you can't find elephants, then add up all the places you can find them. Or add up how many things you don't have, then add up everything you do have. What does this supposed p...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:41 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

If 0 doesn't exist, then what is 1 + -1 supposed to equal? Do negative numbers exist? Or is 2 - 3 just not a thing? Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying that "nothing" (zero) isn't useful, just that it's unique and shouldn't be expected mimic the behavior of "something" (i...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:23 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

To the OP, assuming good faith: As for whether zero is worthwhile? I think we're asking too much of it. It's currently a placeholder AND a "number" representing "nothing". I think we'd benefit from separating out its jobs. Zero is a symbol, as is everything in math, but I'm not ...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:15 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

@FancyHat I think I've argued intelligently against zero as a number. And considering I knew nothing (well, nothing I remembered) about factorials until I got pissed about their not fitting into my program, I'd say I've taken this opportunity to learn an immense amount across a number of topics. I'm...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:04 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

@LaserGuy Thanks for the comment. Some interesting bits in there that I'll have to look into. I used to love math so much. I fondly remember a freshman class where I determined a much simpler formula for determining the area of an ellipse than what the book listed. The teacher (a grad student from M...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:30 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

@FancyHat I was being cheeky. Get the bricks at of your ass. ;) I'm using parentheses around nothing to represent an empty set, which I believe (and could be mistaken) is unique from the "number" zero. I suppose I'm proposing that we stop treating zero like a number. They say one of the ev...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:12 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

@flownt

Thanks, I'll check those out.

As for the brick example, I find it both visceral and logical at the same time. I defy you to define a more "appropriate" example, given my stance.

Thanks, I'll check those out.

As for the brick example, I find it both visceral and logical at the same time. I defy you to define a more "appropriate" example, given my stance.

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:43 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

@ nadando: That looks complex, but it looks like you're just switching the blame to x^0 = 1. Is that the case? I also call bullshit on 0^0 = 1. It's the sort of something-out-of-nothing prestidigitation I'd expect from a member of the Cult of Zero. 0^0 = ( ). If it's good enough for n/0, it's good e...

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:37 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Re: Dogma in Math

@tooyoo:

I actually looked at that n!/(k! (n-k)!) business, and it works just as well if 0! = ( ).

I will tentatively not label you a brick fucker. Are we allowed to swear in here? Too late, I guess.

I actually looked at that n!/(k! (n-k)!) business, and it works just as well if 0! = ( ).

I will tentatively not label you a brick fucker. Are we allowed to swear in here? Too late, I guess.

- Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:15 pm UTC
- Forum: Mathematics
- Topic: Dogma in Math
- Replies:
**98** - Views:
**11858**

### Dogma in Math

I've just started studying programming, and one assignment was to create a program that would return the factorial of any positive integer. So n!=x. Here's where I ran into what I consider dogma. The test of the program included 0. And supposedly, 0!=1... This makes no sense. 1!=1... Are you trying ...

- Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:51 am UTC
- Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
- Topic: 0628: "Psychic"
- Replies:
**186** - Views:
**43238**

### Re: "Psychic" Discussion

A similar trick can be used with gullible investors. I don't remember what it's called, but it goes like this. Gather a large group of investors together for some stock tips. Tell half of them that XYZ is going up, and tell the other half that XYZ is going down. Tell half of the winners that ABC is...

- Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:47 am UTC
- Forum: Science
- Topic: The nature of time
- Replies:
**18** - Views:
**1532**

### Re: The nature of time

OK, So we're beginning to see things on the same level. In my last scenario, you said we would have created a World Line C when we waited 1 hour and sent a message back 55 minutes. Essentially, this means World Line A can NEVER receive messages from the future... They have invented a time machine th...

- Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:36 am UTC
- Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
- Topic: 0628: "Psychic"
- Replies:
**186** - Views:
**43238**

### Re: "Psychic" Discussion

I've convinced the kids at my school I'm psychic by walking out of the room while they (and their native Japanese teacher) choose a number from 1 through 4 that I've written on the board. They can choose whatever they want because the teacher lets me know the number by how she's standing. At the end...

- Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:32 am UTC
- Forum: Science
- Topic: The nature of time
- Replies:
**18** - Views:
**1532**

### Re: The nature of time

If you found out the Novikov reality was correct, it'd put a significant damper on your desire to time travel. We're still not seeing quite eye-to-eye on this. I'm not talking about messages being sent forward in time, only back. World A sends to World B in E(A). World A sees no results, but is able...

- Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:52 am UTC
- Forum: Science
- Topic: Childhood (not so) crackpot theories
- Replies:
**420** - Views:
**34558**

### Re: Childhood (not so) crackpot theories

I have to say that quantum Immortality sounds good, but makes no sense. If every possible universe exists, then there is an universe where I have just turned into a chair, a frog, or anything or anyone . What if my body turns into an exact copy of my father's body? Is it me or is it my father? What...

- Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:46 am UTC
- Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
- Topic: 0628: "Psychic"
- Replies:
**186** - Views:
**43238**

### Re: "Psychic" Discussion

Eternal Density wrote:I quite commonly get an unexplained feeling that something is likely going to happen, and it's often right. Pattern recognition seems like a decent explanation for it

Exactly. But to me, there's no way to draw a line between pattern recognition and psychic premonition.

- Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:14 am UTC
- Forum: Science
- Topic: Childhood (not so) crackpot theories
- Replies:
**420** - Views:
**34558**

### Re: Childhood (not so) crackpot theories

My theory from early high school (and still) is that you can't die. Infinite Personal Reality. When it's about time for you to die from sickness, old age, etc., in your reality, a miracle cure will be found and you'll be saved. Unfortunately, other people can die (in your reality) but will continue...

- Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:07 am UTC
- Forum: Science
- Topic: The nature of time
- Replies:
**18** - Views:
**1532**

### Re: The nature of time

This strikes me as quite different from any paradox I've ever read about (and I do enjoy reading about them). I read the Novikov article. I gotta call bullshit. You can "affect" the past but not "change" it? Replacing victims of a disaster with similar corpses wouldn't change any...

- Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:21 am UTC
- Forum: Science
- Topic: Childhood (not so) crackpot theories
- Replies:
**420** - Views:
**34558**

### Re: Childhood (not so) crackpot theories

My theory from early high school (and still) is that you can't die. Infinite Personal Reality. When it's about time for you to die from sickness, old age, etc., in your reality, a miracle cure will be found and you'll be saved. Unfortunately, other people can die (in your reality) but will continue ...