Search found 1410 matches

by Griffin
Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:41 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

In other words, only sick, poor people should have to suffer :roll: Although, realistically, libertarianism really has no good answers to any question relating to poverty other than "make more money" and a lot of policies libertarians advocate (eg. all private healthcare and education) ac...
by Griffin
Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:42 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Sabre-rattling for space war
Replies: 35
Views: 4810

Re: Sabre-rattling for space war

I have serious doubts that any sabre rattling with china would reasonable lead to an actual space war, though.
by Griffin
Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:32 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Sabre-rattling for space war
Replies: 35
Views: 4810

Re: Sabre-rattling for space war

Sabre-rattling for space war leads to more space stuff. I support this. It's the only reason we ever got to another planetary body, after all.
by Griffin
Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:13 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

That fact that libertarians consider any definition of the word 'owe' that doesn't involve actual money debt to be "rare, incorrect and meaningless" is I think an interested insight into the libertarian mindset. Did... did anyone debts that take a form other than money are meaningless? Be...
by Griffin
Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:57 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

You were wrong. You created a strawman by using the wrong definition of the word 'owe'. OTOH, you were right when you said we've wasted more than enough of our lives on this banality. You communicated poorly, this is no ones problem but your own. When you use a rare, incorrect, and meaningless defi...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:28 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

Not actually upset at all. When someone acts all smug about about their stupidity, they need to be called out on it. And you have to at least try to lower yourself to a level that they might be able to comprehend. I see I failed, but hey, whatever. How ironic. Did you ever even have a point in this...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:57 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

Citation needed please. One was provided, and you named a couple yourself (also belonging to the superset billionaire). I never said that most or even a significant percentage were in favour of higher taxes - I've honestly got no idea. I just objected to your "everyone" thinks someone els...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:22 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

Except for the millionaires in the US that continually call for themselves to pay higher taxes?

Considering Bono's primary residence was only there for tax purposes anyway, it's completely unsurprising.
by Griffin
Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:22 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

Also, I really abhor the frequent statements that libertarian=anarchy, when they are in a great many ways incompatible. Libertarian belief almost always requires a strong (but very limited) government to safeguard the rights they hold so dear. Anyone who says Libertarians should move to Somalia for ...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:02 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

YeAh, ChIlL oUt MoThErFuCkEr. Also, I wonder how many dictionaries you had to go through to find that. :P http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/owe http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/owe That second one has your "definition" but also explains how it STILL means indebtedness! It's not my fault ...
by Griffin
Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:15 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

And I argue that's all a load of bollocks. Our moral obligation to help others is completely independent of whatever came before us and brought us here. If I were sired by a rapist, I would be under no obligation to help future rapists, I would hope. We have a moral system that's perfectly capable o...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:35 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

lutzj, you don't understand. But its finally become clear (and would have become clearer if he'd actually responded to any of my questions to determine if this was the case from the very beginning of when this stupid argument stated) what the situation is. When he says "owe", he doesn't ac...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:10 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

People can, in fact, provide reasons for oughts. They are usually followed by "because it will"s based upon agreed upon goals or preceded by "if you then"s based on prior beliefs. And finally, it's not much of an is-ought gap since we are discussing something being claimed to be ...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:30 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

The reality is that every advance, every discovery, every invention would be impossible without the advance, discovery, or invention that necessarily preceded it. There is no PC without the transistor, there is no transistor, without semi-conductors, there are no semi-conductors without eletrical t...
by Griffin
Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:07 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

but adults in a modern society understand that their existence is largely facilitated by good fortune and the kindness of others, and that they have duties as well as rights. And most libertarians would readily agree with that (everyone I've ever met, at least). So I'm not sure what your point is, ...
by Griffin
Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:18 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

We all owe our lives to lots of things that predate us and were not of our making; I'm sorry, just... no. I can't agree with this. A child's existence is due to the actions of their parents, but they do not owe anything, not a single thing, to their parents merely by that act of creation. I do unde...
by Griffin
Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:03 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

In no system absent of the threat of state violence would England and Scotland ever have become one entity You should probably learn a weeee bit more history here. England and Scotland became one country because it made sense - they both operated under the same monarch, Scotland needed England fina...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:28 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

Zamfir, it's an entirely different thing. In this example, you can choose to not be part of any libertarian collective or only be part of one you agree with. Your state example isn't really relevant because living in a state is not voluntary. It is, quite literally, impossible to avoid living in a S...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:47 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

The utility point is a good one, and I was going to bring it up, but I figured it would be better to focus just on what many I've met see as a core element of the redistribution element of positive rights, that it's something you have to be given (or that is taken from) another - most libertarians I...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:14 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

I think the problem many libertarian's have with Positive Rights, is that they, almost by definition, require taking from someone else - they are state-compelled action. Which libertarians see as bad. Negative rights, by definition, are NOT state compelled action - the state never requires someone t...
by Griffin
Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:06 am UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

Go and check Steroid's post history. It's frightening. Here's the first gem I could find . Steroid is not what I would call a libertarian. His philosophy isn't maximum freedom or pretty much anything traditionally liberterian, it's "whatever is best for Steroid". His point there wasn't th...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:32 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

I think the big reason most libertarians is states right folks is a good commentary on one of your earlier comments: Of course, the fact that we live in a collective called, "society," and adhere by default to the philosophy that no man is an island, one's mistakes do typically have a meas...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:34 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

I've certainly met people who say some of those things. Some of them were even libertarians. A surprising number were not, mind you. Very few of those who said them actually believed them when one dug a little deeper. Almost all the "taxes are theft" people seem to be of the opinion that t...
by Griffin
Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:01 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: A small, specific question about libertarianism
Replies: 667
Views: 59845

Re: A small, specific question about libertarianism

iamspen, So you aren't actually talking about libertarians, just idiots? Seriously, that's certainly none of the types the OP was writing about, so why even bother bringing it up? Aside from the fact that someone like what you describe isn't even a libertarian (and I'm pretty sure its a strawman any...
by Griffin
Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:00 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1063: "Kill Hitler"
Replies: 278
Views: 59124

Re: 1063: "Kill Hitler"

Woah. Dejavu, XKCD and MSPA.
by Griffin
Tue May 22, 2012 12:45 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

There is also, most certainly, an equal protection question at hand here. I consider it a fundamental principle that free societies do not arbitrarily treat classes of citizens with discrete characteristics as unequal before the law, and advocating this is not mutually exclusive to combating other ...
by Griffin
Mon May 21, 2012 9:39 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

Yes, I fully realize that marriage entails membership in a privileged class. I said that specifically. And Basoon, your words are stupid and pointless, and I'm beginning to suspect you're arguing vehemently against someone else and just using me as a stand in, so I'm not going to bother responding t...
by Griffin
Mon May 21, 2012 9:12 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

And I still don't understand your point. My original argument was "I could see sacrificing same sex marriage if I thought it would allow us to accomplish some other thing I valued more than it, but I don't see that in any aspect of the current situation so I hope they go all out for same sex ma...
by Griffin
Mon May 21, 2012 8:34 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

Those are all good things, and I am in full support of extending them to everybody. And not just the married either. The whole situation is, quite frankly, bullshit. But yes. Those are all small potatoes, a thousand times over compared to people losing years of their life in jail for something that ...
by Griffin
Mon May 21, 2012 5:28 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

That's a wonderful crock of shit you've got brewing there. Are you claiming to get it from me? Because I'm pretty sure you cooked it up yourself. Seriously, if you don't want to bother responding to what was actually said, don't bother responding. You are talking about an issue that is, at best, sma...
by Griffin
Mon May 21, 2012 2:42 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

I've only got one plank I'd never give up to see others win, and both parties are fundamentally opposed to it, so... yeah, you know, I'd give up the gay marriage thing to win. Especially since its one of those things that feels incredibly inevitable, it's already legal in my state, and if the Republ...
by Griffin
Mon May 21, 2012 2:32 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Occupy:Frankfurt cleared by police
Replies: 78
Views: 8018

Re: Occupy:Frankfurt cleared by police

To solve the Student Loan issue for example, Occupy wants student loan forgiveness. The Tea Party wants the Government to stop subsidizing loans all together! They'd rather have students pay higher costs on their student loans. (which solves the problem because fewer people will go to school and ge...
by Griffin
Sun May 20, 2012 3:52 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Is monotheism a non-doctrinal rational stance?
Replies: 178
Views: 18420

Re: Is monotheism a non-doctrinal rational stance?

Okay, you disagree. Why? (though technically, the argument is that since someone /created/ the black and white world, we are all gods relative to it. We obviously wouldn't be gods relative to THIS world, just as any of our gods wouldn't be deities relative to beings of comparable power or situation)...
by Griffin
Sun May 20, 2012 3:48 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Occupy:Frankfurt cleared by police
Replies: 78
Views: 8018

Re: Occupy:Frankfurt cleared by police

And its pretty obvious there are problems on both sides of that equation that need to be fixed, and I very much doubt that's all. But I think the biggest reason people are blaming the banks and the rest of the 1% is that, unlike pretty much every recession in history, most of the wealthy (and corpor...
by Griffin
Sun May 20, 2012 1:45 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

And had that been what the Republicans were arguing, that would have been fine. It wasn't.

So - anyone have any recent polls or data? I know Obama has really dipped lately - is there evidence this is due to the gay marriage thing?
by Griffin
Sun May 20, 2012 4:40 am UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

And this is all an incredibly irrelevant tangent, thats got nothing to do with the topic at hand. And the original point was that the republicans were talking out their ass with a crap justification. And they were. (And it IS a distortion of any TRUE religious belief, by which we could also say ANY,...
by Griffin
Fri May 18, 2012 6:58 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: obama endorses same-sex marriage
Replies: 348
Views: 33492

Re: obama endorses same-sex marriage

An interesting question if we're going to the historical argument... Has Gay Marriage existed in any form prior to modern marriage? I'm not a historian, but if we're going to be talking about history and other marriages... it'd be best to come up with a solid historical example of gay marriage. htt...
by Griffin
Fri May 18, 2012 3:35 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Changing the American election system
Replies: 98
Views: 20421

Re: Changing the American election system

And if you're doing a group per election, rather than one group to handle ALL elections, the impact is lessened even further. (And I think it should be a group per election)
by Griffin
Fri May 18, 2012 2:42 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Changing the American election system
Replies: 98
Views: 20421

Re: Changing the American election system

Right. And I don't get why that matters. But I think we may be operating from fundamentally different opinions about what representative democracy is, what its for, why it matters, and what's important about it. I'm more of a traditionalist on those fronts. And most people probably agree more with y...
by Griffin
Fri May 18, 2012 1:19 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Changing the American election system
Replies: 98
Views: 20421

Re: Changing the American election system

Simply letting people opt out (or only pulling from people who volunteer) would make it no longer perfectly random. That's not particularly out of one's way.

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