Search found 19255 matches

by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:27 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

Edit: Note that the comic just talks about the importance of speaking your beliefs and letting your creativity be free- it doesn't say "and it better not cost me any jobs!" Seriously. The point of that comic is that you shouldn't care, not that it shouldn't happen. And I should hope it al...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:13 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I demand that everyone here tolerate my intolerance of intolerance. Yeah, that's right, I said something that only makes a weird recursive sort of sense on paper due to a language trick and some hazy definitions. NOW I'M RIGHT, up until the moment someone realizes they can add another "of intol...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:12 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

setzer777 wrote:Edit: Note that the comic just talks about the importance of speaking your beliefs and letting your creativity be free- it doesn't say "and it better not cost me any jobs!"


Seriously. The point of that comic is that you shouldn't care, not that it shouldn't happen.
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I feel that much of the discussion in this thread has been along the lines of: A1 (comic). It is okay for private/organizations to: yell at, boycott, cancel the show of, ban from an internet community, ask to resign, oust, discriminate against, or censor people with unpopular "bullshit" o...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:30 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

And Izawwlgood, I'm saying it's a bad idea to talk about that issue using outdated and deeply problematic metaphors. If my side made those horrible little "your argument is irrelevant" bingo cards, "fire in a crowded theater" would be on all of them. When your side stops making ...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:18 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

But what about the next big civil liberties issue? You don't know what it's going to be. It might not even have anything to do with sexual orientation or race. If you can't make your own policy of tolerance universal, what's to say that the bigot of the future won't be You yourself? Sam, you're tal...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:07 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Afterall, in America we are guilty until proven innocent, right? I show up to a job interview. Pleasantries are exchanged. A cup of coffee is offered. We sit. The interviewer asks for my qualifications, my strengths, and what I can bring to the job. I respond "Nay, good ser. You must prove I w...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:17 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

If you don't believe me, just look at one of the professors at my own university: David Deming. (feel free to google him) You mean a person in a teaching position expressing blatantly sexist views might cause concerns in a university that is populated by at least half women, and who want to have a ...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:50 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Is this part of that moderator tolling day that I've been hearing about. What you just wrote is so much of a non-sequitur that I can't imagine it being anything else. No one appreciates me. Let me try again: Being intolerant of bigots is unlikely to have any negative effect because they are already...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:57 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Is this part of that moderator tolling day that I've been hearing about. What you just wrote is so much of a non-sequitur that I can't imagine it being anything else. No one appreciates me. Let me try again: Being intolerant of bigots is unlikely to have any negative effect because they are already...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:50 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

You are happy when thing happens, Greg, but have you considered that you would be unhappy if the OPPOSITE of thing happened?

Vote Nothing Ever, 2014
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:45 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Now, if you just want things to be fair, and you just want to have your turn to get them back, than sure, be intolerant of intolerant people. But if you actually want to make intolerance actually go away, than being intolerant back won't actually help you. Yeah, after all, if you're intolerant of b...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:19 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I don't support there being any legal bar to boycotting for any reason. Yes, it is fully legal for the boycotters to boycott because of how the CEO donated, as it should be. It becomes a little bit more hairy when you turn this into a moral discussion rather than a legal one. I don't want to live i...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:38 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

People who engage in boycotts are assholes. Boycotting businesses because they're owned by blacks or Jews and in some states gays is criminal. Point to the law. Because I am near certain you're wrong. The reason you're wrong is that a "boycott" is just "a lot of people not buying a t...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:32 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

And you know what you're not legally obligated to do? Buy a thing. Except for Health Insurance... er, wait, Roberts made that into a "tax". Carry on. Even when you're required to buy health insurance, it's not mandated who you must buy it from. If you want to only buy health insurance fro...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:30 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

gmalivuk wrote:
synp wrote:Boycotting businesses because they're owned by blacks or Jews and in some states gays is criminal.

wat


Shit, did I leave the "allow registration by users in alternate universes" toggle turned on in the forum settings?

Why do we even have that toggle?
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:27 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

People who engage in boycotts are assholes. Boycotting businesses because they're owned by blacks or Jews and in some states gays is criminal. Point to the law. Because I am near certain you're wrong. The reason you're wrong is that a "boycott" is just "a lot of people not buying a t...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:19 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I don't want to change your constitution, because it means nothing to me. A society that boycotts people for expressing their opinions is not a free society, and no document can make it so. Under what circumstances may I refuse to conduct business with somebody? You may never refuse to conduct busi...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:15 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I don't want to change your constitution, because it means nothing to me. A society that boycotts people for expressing their opinions is not a free society, and no document can make it so. Under what circumstances may I refuse to conduct business with somebody? No circumstances. You must be buying...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:57 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

I notice my supposedly privileged position being made a point. Very well, don't take it from me, take it from this woman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen-Christine_Friele After decades as a figurehead of a national LGBT equality movement, Friele has resorting to lobbying, informing, and writing ...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:38 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

It would seem a bit ahistorical to leave out the fact that simply being gay was a punishable offence in most of the western world a few short decades ago. Wanting to marry someone of your own gender, back then, was not even just illegal, it was an unthinkable, illegal and diseased perversion. In wh...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:03 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Gmal basically covers my opposition to your first few paragraphs, Brandnew, so let's start from here: "Outing" one single individual is far worse than speaking up against the mass of "people who disagree with us", and if anything, I think doing so - in addition to being detriment...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:36 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Even the LGBT society has gotten to where it is today by those means. No radical revolutions, but small nudges. First you decriminalize, then you legalize, then acceptance starts to build. Takes a little more time, but costs a whole lot less bloodshed. Actually, they got there through a number of c...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:17 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

My point here is that it shouldn't have had to endure those hardships. If the abolitionist movement had enjoyed the freedom of speech we're supposed to enjoy today, people might have ended up reaching a slightly more civilized way of resolving their differences than a war. And, since I'm hopelessly...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:11 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Do we judge people one their views on one topic? If the topic is "Do I, or people I care about, get to be full protected members of society" then in a word yes . As I am so fond of pointing out, this isn't a disagreement over favorite sportsball gang or which film adaptation of Heart of D...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:06 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Look, if we want marriage equality to flourish, we do that by changing the minds of people who are sitting on the fence that our side is right and just. Also, I want to return to this to make a point. I would like everyone on the opposing side of this argument to please decide whether applying soci...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:02 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

But what's your point? Society should be, to some degree, accepting of all opinions? All opinions deserve equal consideration? That's a difficult position to take. [I believe that] some opinions are more valid than others. Harmful opinions and beliefs should not be supported. We should feel free to...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:57 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

In practical terms, is there much difference between shutting someone up through the force of law (free speech issue) and shutting them up through the force of community pressure (technically not a free speech issue)? The end result is the same either way: it silences speech, and that's not particu...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:45 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

In practical terms, is there much difference between shutting someone up through the force of law (free speech issue) and shutting them up through the force of community pressure (technically not a free speech issue)? The end result is the same either way: it silences speech, and that's not particu...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:21 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Another comic that elucidates the difference between silencing someone and simply removing them from their position of influence (to which they were not entitled in the first place) Nope, just another comic that fails to get the fact that a chilling effected by the government is no different from a...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:15 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

So why are so many who pride themselves on being in a position to judge others, socially or intellectually, so easily drawn into assigning Hate to anyone who doesn't agree with them? Let me tell you a secret: very few people care even a little bit about why you believe the things you believe or do ...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:59 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

http://amultiverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/x2013-12-19-Dick-Dynasty.jpg.pagespeed.ic.L5IXGGIzgw.jpg Another comic that elucidates the difference between silencing someone and simply removing them from their position of influence (to which they were not entitled in the first place)
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:56 pm UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

Two more points about this: 1. Nobody is required to pay you to spout your opinions. 2. All that being said, the right way to counter speech you disagree with is speech about why those ideas are stupid, not trying to censor what the other person is said. #CancelXKCD In most of the cases under discu...
by Belial
Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 am UTC
Forum: Individual XKCD Comic Threads
Topic: 1357: "Free Speech"
Replies: 1346
Views: 139618

Re: 1357: "Free Speech"

But 'free speech' is more than just the first amendment. Sure, but people who invoke it are usually trying to beg the question. It's assumed that we consider "free speech" (in the sense that you mean it) to be an automatically-good thing, because we have the first amendment. Whereas I thi...
by Belial
Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:01 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

Yeah, you guys. Diplomacy isn't the answer. Let's annihilate everyone who doesn't agree with us. Zero tolerance. Take no prisoners. Us vs. Them FOREVER!!!! Because war solves everything. Since someone alluded above to Benjamin Franklin's involvement in the American Revolution... Ever wonder why the...
by Belial
Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:48 pm UTC
Forum: Serious Business
Topic: Cultural Appropriation / Assimilation
Replies: 501
Views: 67649

Re: Cultural Appropriation / Assimilation

In point of fact, the most valid argument I've ever seen for dreads not being appropriative is that they show up more or less independently in so many different cultures that they can't really be strictly associated with any of them, and therefore one isn't appropriating from anyone in particular. I...
by Belial
Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:47 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

There was a blurb going around tumblr a while back to the effect that when people say "Don't fight fire with fire" what they mean is "Don't fight fire with anything. Stand and burn. Quietly." And, I mean, nevermind that literally fighting fire with fire is actually a thing people...
by Belial
Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:37 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

Yeah, I have no idea where the "violence" comparison even came from, given that nobody has advocated forming roaming bands of murdergays.

They're gays who murder.
by Belial
Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:27 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

Also "less homophobic than ever before" is wrong. Plenty of historical cultures have not been terribly bothered by it. Instead of seeing modern culture as the abberation, it's not unreasonable to see the puritanical hangups on sex and homosexuality as the divergance from normal human beha...
by Belial
Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:21 pm UTC
Forum: News & Articles
Topic: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO
Replies: 874
Views: 70146

Re: Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO

Also, I like the part where we're taking it as a foregone conclusion that allowing Lee to remain relevant was necessarily a good decision or one we would make again.

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