People pouncing on first posts outside of intro thread

Need the mods or admins to do something for you? Post here. Read the "About" post first.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:24 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
Can't we all just get along?


Ideally.

Let's just all be nicer about nudging toward the intro thread


Indeed. There's no call to be rude, I agree.


The third point of my post was the most important, I thought: calling attention to other reasons for posting in an intro thread. It makes the rule more community-oriented. And even if it's a lie, it could result in more people following it.

Also, *tremble.*

Ahh, that's a good little nougat.
*Gentle pats on head for you*
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Postby Vaniver » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:08 pm UTC

You joined when the intro thread made it onto its 12th page. Which, coincidentally, is where i found your intro post.
I have a bad habit of conveniently forgetting about the posts where I hit on people (my sole post in the forum games subforum was hitting on Pesh, back when it was in General). Isn't that the 9th page, though?

I think I predated the intro thread rule, though. I hate it when I misremember and/or miswrite things like that.

[edit]The more I think about this, the more familiar it seems. Did I make this mistake before?

Furthermore, whether you agree with the rule or not, you are aware of it. Failure to follow it, then, is willful disobedience. Willful disobedience to the moderator order is frowned upon. I frown with my ban button. Is a picture emerging,yet?
While "Comply or be punished" does provide one with a reason why it is harmful to not comply, it still does not explain why compliance is necessary. People prefer authoritative rule to authoritarian rule.

[edit] It is most definitely page 9. Sorry I can't count :D
Last edited by Vaniver on Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:44 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:18 pm UTC

While "Comply or be punished" does provide one with a reason why it is harmful to not comply, it still does not explain why compliance is necessary. People prefer authoritative rule to authoritarian rule.


Okay, try this then:

Very few people believe themselves to look like spambots.

Very many people actually look like spambots.

It is easier for everyone involved if everyone just posts in the intro thread to clear this up, no matter how much they don't think they look like spammers.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

Floydian
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 2:25 am UTC

Re: People pouncing on first posts outside of intro thread

Postby Floydian » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:07 am UTC

lanicita wrote:We want everyone to post in the intro thread first so we can actually know who these people who are posting ARE. So it's not just some random person contributing to the discussion, but a real person that we know something about. Also, by posting in the intro thread first, you're making it really easy for people who have forgotten who you are to look at the first post in your post history and see "Ohhh right, that's the person who skydives and makes really good pancakes!"


Why do you need to know who someone is to appreciate their posts? Knowing someones favourite colour shouldn't validate their post, the quality of the post itself should. So what if I'm some random person, does it matter?

|333173|3|_||3
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:41 am UTC
Location: Adelaide, SA, Aus

Postby |333173|3|_||3 » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:18 am UTC

TheTankengine wrote:
skeptical scientist wrote:
Belial wrote:
why rules must be followed


If you can't figure this one out....


I think there are two schools of thought here. One is that rules are rules, and must be followed because they are rules. The other is that rules exist for a purpose, and if no useful purpose is served by enforcing them, they should not be enforced. From your comment, you seem to be firmly entrenched in the first school, but I see no reason why this should be considered "correct" and the other "incorrect"; I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both ways of going about things.

Personally, I quite commonly completely ignore rules I disagree with, or find pointless, and feel entirely justified in doing so, but this is a debate for another thread. In any case, I don't disagree with the intro thread rule, or find it pointless; I would just like to see it enforced in a more lenient, relaxed, and welcoming manner, by mods and non-mods alike.


[snipped="Unnecessarily verbose explanation"]

Concise version:
We do not have rules for the sake of rules. We have rules because we would like to foster the community in a certain direction. Our policies are laid out within the mod forum and the mods have a fairly uniform consensus on how to enforce these rules.


The answer to "Why follow rules?" is simple: there was a good reason for their introduction, and the established members at the time (especially the admins and mods) decided that they were necessary for whatever reason. If you feel that you do not understand the reason behind the rule, then you ought to do some reading, and find the discussion where it was decided to introduce the rule.
If you feel that a rule no longer serves its original purpose, then by all means bring up an individual rule for review, but explain why it is no longer useful, or why it should be restated so that its current purpose is made clear.
Someone of Vaniver's age and post count would, on such well-moderated fora as this, no doubt by now be capable of adding his voice to a reasoned discussion about rule changes (whereas someone as new as myself would find that my opinions were considered less important, owing to my lesser knowledge of the site and it's customs)

In short: questioning individual rules which you understand is one thing, asking "Why follow rules?" is quite another, and disobeying the rules simply because they are rules is wrong.

BTW, I agree about the Turing test though. If a spambot is so good that even hermaj (who eats spambots) or Belial (whom eats humans) cannot tell at first if they are bots, it could prove amusing to keep tabs on it and title it so that other users know what it is, at least as long as it passes for an intelligent person. If it starts getting annoying, then deleting it and all its posts is fairly reasonable.

EDIT: I am not sure if Vaniver is trolling or not, but he is doing a very good job if he is.
The voices in my head tell me that I should write something here. Unfortunately, they won't tell me what to write.

User avatar
skeptical scientist
closed-minded spiritualist
Posts: 6142
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:09 am UTC
Location: San Francisco

Postby skeptical scientist » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:37 am UTC

My comment about not following rules is parenthetical and tangentially related at best, since I agree with the rules here, and would follow them. I'm merely stating that the reason one should follow the rules is not merely "because they are the rules" but because following them has the more important purpose of ensuring an orderly and well-functioning society, and if they did not exist for this purpose, there would be no reason to follow them. If we're going to debate this matter further (and I would be happy to do so), it should probably be in a different thread.

The question I raised in this thread is not about whether or not to follow the rules in general, or even whether to follow this rule in particular. The question I raised is how the community should react in the situation that this particular rule has already been broken. Usually when it is broken, it is by a well-meaning individual who figures that they can get away with posting a few times before reading the forum rules in full, most likely because forum rules tend to be pretty much the same from forum to forum in the internet. Frequently the reaction they receive is unwelcoming and, in my opinion, out of proportion with something that's really a pretty trivial "oops". So my point is that while the rule exists and exists for a good reason, there may also be good reason for being lenient, relaxed, and welcoming when people accidentally break it, and I think we are all pretty much in agreement about that.
I'm looking forward to the day when the SNES emulator on my computer works by emulating the elementary particles in an actual, physical box with Nintendo stamped on the side.

"With math, all things are possible." —Rebecca Watson

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Postby Princess Marzipan » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:45 pm UTC

|333173|3|_||3 wrote:EDIT: I am not sure if Vaniver is trolling or not, but he is doing a very good job if he is.


Vaniver argues for the sake of doing so. Trolls just like to piss other people off.
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:57 pm UTC

Voice of Mod:

Rules are Rules. You follow them because that's what "rules" means, and because obeying them means you get to stay. You disobey them, you don't get to stay. Fairly simple, no?
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
RealGrouchy
Nobody Misses Me As Much As Meaux.
Posts: 6704
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 7:17 am UTC
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Postby RealGrouchy » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:12 pm UTC

@Floydian: Irrespective of lanicita's argument (which I disagree with), the rule has other functions whose goals are independent of that reasoning.

LE4dGOLEM wrote:Voice of Mod:

Rules are Rules. You follow them because that's what "rules" means, and because obeying them means you get to stay. You disobey them, you don't get to stay. Fairly simple, no?

Also, and I think this is the key to this discussion: there's no rule that states that mods must enforce every single violation of the rules. If there is such a rule, at least it isn't enforced.

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

User avatar
skeptical scientist
closed-minded spiritualist
Posts: 6142
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:09 am UTC
Location: San Francisco

Postby skeptical scientist » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:55 pm UTC

Well, of course, moderators aren't the only ones "enforcing" this rule.
I'm looking forward to the day when the SNES emulator on my computer works by emulating the elementary particles in an actual, physical box with Nintendo stamped on the side.

"With math, all things are possible." —Rebecca Watson

User avatar
apricity
almost grown-up but not quite
Posts: 3983
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:28 am UTC

Re: People pouncing on first posts outside of intro thread

Postby apricity » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:55 pm UTC

Floydian wrote:
lanicita wrote:We want everyone to post in the intro thread first so we can actually know who these people who are posting ARE. So it's not just some random person contributing to the discussion, but a real person that we know something about. Also, by posting in the intro thread first, you're making it really easy for people who have forgotten who you are to look at the first post in your post history and see "Ohhh right, that's the person who skydives and makes really good pancakes!"


Why do you need to know who someone is to appreciate their posts? Knowing someones favourite colour shouldn't validate their post, the quality of the post itself should. So what if I'm some random person, does it matter?


Okay, personally, if a person doesn't care enough to let us know who he is before posting, I'm not going to care enough to read whatever he wrote in his post. If I see that it's someone's first post and it's not the intro thread, I generally assume that person isn't going to stick around, so I don't want to bother replying because he'll never see it, so there's not even any point in my reading it. Alternately, if I see it's someone's second or third post, I usually click on his profile to see his post in the intro thread, because I like knowing a person's background.

And even if my reason's invalid, the spambot thing still holds.
LE4d wrote:have you considered becoming an electron

it takes just a little practice to learn to be
(she/her/hers)

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26817
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:33 pm UTC

LE4dGOLEM wrote:Voice of Mod:

Rules are Rules. You follow them because that's what "rules" means, and because obeying them means you get to stay. You disobey them, you don't get to stay. Fairly simple, no?


This coming from someone who took 18 days before bothering to post in the Intro thread?

lanicita wrote:Okay, personally, if a person doesn't care enough to let us know who he is before posting, I'm not going to care enough to read whatever he wrote in his post.


Okay, personally, I am one of the many people here (LE4d is another) who first registered because there was a specific conversation going on that I wanted to join in. (For both of us, it happened to be one of the logic puzzles.) I don't know the situation for others, but I had specific responses in mind to specific (non-Intro) threads when I joined, and I went ahead and posted those before I formally introduced myself. I really seriously doubt that the forums as a whole are somehow less functional because me and LE4d and plenty of other longtime, contributing members (including several of the current mods) didn't immediately post an introduction.

I fully understand the purpose of an intro thread, and the need for people to post in it early on, and the point of requesting that they do so early on in their membership. I, like Skeptical Scientist, am posting in this thread out of a desire to change the tone of those requests rather than to do away with them altogether. The fact that there are so many of us who didn't follow that particular rule to the letter from the start means that new people whose first post isn't an introduction should maybe be treated a bit less hostilely than occasionally seems to happen.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:54 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
LE4dGOLEM wrote:Voice of Mod:

Rules are Rules. You follow them because that's what "rules" means, and because obeying them means you get to stay. You disobey them, you don't get to stay. Fairly simple, no?


This coming from someone who took 18 days before bothering to post in the Intro thread?


I don't remember posting an introduction post.
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26817
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:01 pm UTC

LE4dGOLEM wrote:I don't remember posting an introduction post.


Indeed. It was a post in the Intro thread, though.

(I checked early posts for several of the mods and people who had over 2000 posts before making my last post here, in order to have some data to back up my fallacious "well this person did it, so it's not that bad" argument.)
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:54 pm UTC

Also, the fora are a lot bigger now when they were.

Back when I joined, it was mostly a case of "these people all know each other at least fairly well", now it's more like "there's veterans that know each other and there's all these new kids that nobody knows and there's these people inbetween that don't fit in at all but know and are known by some people".
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
cmacis
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:22 pm UTC
Location: Leeds or Bradford, Thessex
Contact:

Postby cmacis » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:16 pm UTC

I know the vets. I don't read intro thread any more because it would take far too much time. Post enough and I'll get to know you.

Also, where have people been rude in suggesting intro posting? I've just seen polite or humorous.
li te'o te'a vei pai pi'i ka'o ve'o su'i pa du li no
Mathematician is a function mapping tea onto theorems. Sadly this function is irreversible.
QED is Latin for small empty box.
Ceci n’est pas une [s]pipe[/s] signature.

User avatar
Jesse
Vocal Terrorist
Posts: 8635
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Basingstoke, England.
Contact:

Postby Jesse » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:35 pm UTC

I get sooo many PM's from people asking why their thread/post was deleted. I am the one deleting them. I am often tired, and you look like a spambot to me. I am in no way the best judge of who is or who isn't, so if you do not want your stuff deleted, post an intro and there is then no chance I will mistake you.

That is a good enough reason for me.

Also, I have introduced myself at least twice, if not three times.

User avatar
RealGrouchy
Nobody Misses Me As Much As Meaux.
Posts: 6704
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 7:17 am UTC
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Postby RealGrouchy » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:28 am UTC

Someone wrote:Also, I have introduced myself at least twice, if not three times.
Who was that masked man?

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:18 pm UTC

BTW, I agree about the Turing test though. If a spambot is so good that even hermaj (who eats spambots) or Belial (whom eats humans) cannot tell at first if they are bots, it could prove amusing to keep tabs on it and title it so that other users know what it is, at least as long as it passes for an intelligent person. If it starts getting annoying, then deleting it and all its posts is fairly reasonable.
Belial's counterpoint was a good one, though. What do you do with a human who fails the Turing Test?

Okay, personally, I am one of the many people here (LE4d is another) who first registered because there was a specific conversation going on that I wanted to join in. (For both of us, it happened to be one of the logic puzzles.) I don't know the situation for others, but I had specific responses in mind to specific (non-Intro) threads when I joined, and I went ahead and posted those before I formally introduced myself.
This just may be my bias from reading lots of threads other than the intro thread, but I would wager that the majority of the people have their first post in a comic thread or interesting discussion, instead of the intro thread. Talking about oneself rarely is sufficient motivation to make an account.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
TheTankengine
Our Fora-father
Posts: 3328
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Postby TheTankengine » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:27 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:Belial's counterpoint was a good one, though. What do you do with a human who fails the Turing Test?


Delete their posts.
be centered
be compassionate
be interesting

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:48 pm UTC

BTW, I agree about the Turing test though. If a spambot is so good that even hermaj (who eats spambots) or Belial (whom eats humans) cannot tell at first if they are bots, it could prove amusing to keep tabs on it and title it so that other users know what it is, at least as long as it passes for an intelligent person. If it starts getting annoying, then deleting it and all its posts is fairly reasonable.


I don't. Most of the spambots that have been fooling us lately have just been programmed to clip bits of text from various parts of the forum they're posting in, and synthesize an "appropriate" post: Science forum spambot posts *look* like they belong in the science forum. Serious Business forum posts *look* like they belong in SB. And if you haven't read every thread in that forum, you might be fooled into thinking the person is actually a worthwhile poster who's just a bit incoherent (like several of our posters are. If you don't know who you are, someone else probably does and would be glad to point it out to you).

But they aren't adding anything new to the forum, they're just parroting old posts. I don't want them here. You probably shouldn't either. They get deleted, and possibly banned.
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
cmacis
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:22 pm UTC
Location: Leeds or Bradford, Thessex
Contact:

Postby cmacis » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

I was about to suggest that something be added that forces the "no urls until 10 posts" rule, but I'm guessing that will be put off until the second coming/ version3.
li te'o te'a vei pai pi'i ka'o ve'o su'i pa du li no

Mathematician is a function mapping tea onto theorems. Sadly this function is irreversible.

QED is Latin for small empty box.

Ceci n’est pas une [s]pipe[/s] signature.

User avatar
RealGrouchy
Nobody Misses Me As Much As Meaux.
Posts: 6704
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 7:17 am UTC
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Postby RealGrouchy » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:16 pm UTC

cmacis wrote:I annoy the vets. I don't read intro thread any more because it would take far too much time. Post enough and I'll get to know you.

Fix'd.

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

Princess Marzipan
Posts: 7717
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 5:28 am UTC
Location: neither a road, nor an island

Postby Princess Marzipan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:11 am UTC

RealGrouchy wrote:
cmacis wrote:I annoy the vets. I don't read intro thread any more because it would take far too much time. Post enough and I'll get to know you.

Fix'd.

- RG>


Ouch.

Someone needs to tremble more.


<_<
>_>

*tremble*

Damn straight!
"It's Saturday night. I've got no date, a two-liter of Shasta, and my all-Rush mixtape. Let's rock!"
"I am just about to be brilliant!"
General_Norris, on feminism, wrote:If you lose your six Pokémon, you lost.

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:40 pm UTC

cmacis wrote:I was about to suggest that something be added that forces the "no urls until 10 posts" rule


See, we have this little x button...
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
cmacis
Posts: 754
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:22 pm UTC
Location: Leeds or Bradford, Thessex
Contact:

Postby cmacis » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:13 pm UTC

I meant something less human and more computer than the mods.

:shock:

Sorry, nothing is more computer than the mods.

Except for the admins.
li te'o te'a vei pai pi'i ka'o ve'o su'i pa du li no

Mathematician is a function mapping tea onto theorems. Sadly this function is irreversible.

QED is Latin for small empty box.

Ceci n’est pas une [s]pipe[/s] signature.

User avatar
TheTankengine
Our Fora-father
Posts: 3328
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Postby TheTankengine » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:21 pm UTC

cmacis wrote:I meant something less human and more computer than the mods.

:shock:

Sorry, nothing is more computer than the mods.

Except for the admins.


That seems entirely overcomplicated and unnecessary.



Wait, that actually makes it sound like a good idea.
be centered
be compassionate
be interesting

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:57 pm UTC

perhaps some kind of wordfilter? like B3TA's ~faq~ changes to something like "hello new person, check out the [link to faq]Frequently Asked Questions[/link]"

:noob: to "Hello, new person, it appears you have not posted in the [link]Introductions thread![/link] Tsk tsk! But while you're out there near the top of the subforum, why not check out the [link]Rules Thread[/link] and [link]SpitValve's Forum Information Thread[link]? I'm sure we'll get along much better once you've done these simple tasks!" ?
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
skeptical scientist
closed-minded spiritualist
Posts: 6142
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:09 am UTC
Location: San Francisco

Postby skeptical scientist » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:42 pm UTC

I agree that some mechanism to prevent people from making first posts outside of the intro thread would be a good way of going about things. There's nothing unwelcoming about having what is essentially another part of the registration process; there is something unwelcoming about a post like
Also, go post in the introductions thread. OR PERISH!

(at least in my opinion - by the way, I would like to thank my kind, gentle mod team.)

Another thing that could be considered is editing the "you must agree to this before registering" message to include either a link to the rules thread, or else any particularly important rules. Having all the rules in one place might make more sense than having one set of rules you have to agree to before registering, and another set which you don't have to agree to in order to post, but are expected to have read anyways. As it is now, I find it unsurprising if people only read one set of rules and not the other before posting. It is perfectly possible to register in order to post in the math forum, read the rules messages when registering and in the math forum, and not even know that there are other rules that one is expected to follow.

(The pinned thread in the math forum, of course, says that the rules are the same as the rest of the fora, but one would have to already know that this means the pinned thread in general discussion to know that this doesn't just mean the rules in the registration screen. The logic forum doesn't even have a pinned thread with rules, except for those discussing the spoiler policy. I think the mods might be underestimating how easy it is for a first time poster to simply be unaware of the existence of a rules thread in general discussion.)

The way I see it, not making your first post in the intro thread, while a mistake, is an easy one to make, and anything which makes it harder to make is a good thing.
I'm looking forward to the day when the SNES emulator on my computer works by emulating the elementary particles in an actual, physical box with Nintendo stamped on the side.

"With math, all things are possible." —Rebecca Watson

User avatar
Jesse
Vocal Terrorist
Posts: 8635
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:33 pm UTC
Location: Basingstoke, England.
Contact:

Postby Jesse » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:10 pm UTC

See, that would just make me laugh, the 'OR PERISH' is not unwelcoming, it's just funny. If they're the kind of person that wouldn't find that particularly amusing then maybe their humour is not suited to these rather unique fora?

User avatar
Belial
A terrible sound heard from a distance
Posts: 30450
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:04 am UTC
Contact:

Postby Belial » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:12 pm UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:There's nothing unwelcoming about having what is essentially another part of the registration process; there is something unwelcoming about a post like
Also, go post in the introductions thread. OR PERISH!

(at least in my opinion - by the way, I would like to thank my kind, gentle mod team.)


Okay...wait...that is your definition of harsh and unwelcoming?

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with "Welcome to the internet. Wear a helmet."
addams wrote:A drunk neighbor is better than a sober Belial.


They/them

User avatar
Alisto
Crazy like a BOX!
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:14 pm UTC
Location: South Jersey
Contact:

Postby Alisto » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:31 pm UTC

Belial wrote:
skeptical scientist wrote:There's nothing unwelcoming about having what is essentially another part of the registration process; there is something unwelcoming about a post like
Also, go post in the introductions thread. OR PERISH!

(at least in my opinion - by the way, I would like to thank my kind, gentle mod team.)


Okay...wait...that is your definition of harsh and unwelcoming?

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with "Welcome to the internet. Wear a helmet."


It's ok. If the experience is too scarring, we can always dose him with propranolol; he won't remember a thing.
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Crazy like a BOX!
<Jauss> Because karaoke, especially karaoke + lesbians = Alisto, amirite?
<rachel> Old people ain't got shit to do but look at clocks.

User avatar
skeptical scientist
closed-minded spiritualist
Posts: 6142
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:09 am UTC
Location: San Francisco

Postby skeptical scientist » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:47 pm UTC

This is xkcd, not The Flat Earth Society. I like to think we're a lot nicer than the average internet forum, and I'd like to keep it that way. The level of behavior I'll put up with on battle.net and the level of behavior I'd like to see here are very different. And that post is certainly not the most unwelcoming I've seen; just the most unwelcoming I've seen today.

If you want better examples, look at this thread. None of the individual posters were impolite, but the overall effect of three people in a row telling one to go post in the intro thread is definitely unwelcoming. Or this:
Irrelevant, untrue, and go post in the intro thread.
I'm looking forward to the day when the SNES emulator on my computer works by emulating the elementary particles in an actual, physical box with Nintendo stamped on the side.

"With math, all things are possible." —Rebecca Watson

User avatar
MFHodge
Posts: 4246
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:27 pm UTC
Location: :noitacoL Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Postby MFHodge » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:55 pm UTC

Your first example was from the "Art and Links" thread which is, and should be, a bit more strict about the first post rules.
EDIT: I'm not saying that three people needed to say it, but I don't think it's a big deal that they did.

The second example sounds like it came from somebody who was generally annoyed with the post anyways.

I was wondering when these harsh examples were going to show up, because I never really noticed a problem with people being mean about it. I still don't think there is a problem.

User avatar
TheTankengine
Our Fora-father
Posts: 3328
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:09 pm UTC
Location: Louisville, KY
Contact:

Postby TheTankengine » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:06 pm UTC

I will put links to the main rule thread in the individual forum rule threads (wow, that was confusing). That should clear up one excuse at least.


EDIT:Every forum now contains a rule post that links to the General rules and stipulates any necessary extra rules for the said forum. Good?
Last edited by TheTankengine on Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:39 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
be centered
be compassionate
be interesting

User avatar
Alisto
Crazy like a BOX!
Posts: 3998
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:14 pm UTC
Location: South Jersey
Contact:

Postby Alisto » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:22 pm UTC

Allow me to play "bad cop" for a moment:

Whenever I join a forum, I spend a decent amount of time reading the forum first. I like to get a feel for the tone, humor levels, and subject matter before I jump in. This also allows me to avoid forum faux pas such as starting threads which already exist, asking questions which are frowned upon (like DO MY HOMEWORK), etc. I expect the same from everyone else, and I don't feel like that's an unreasonable expectation.

That being said, anyone who steps foot in General will see the introduction thread. There is also a rules thread which clearly states that you're supposed to post in the intro thread first. The newbie guide says the same thing.

What I'm getting at is that there is no excuse to not post in the intro thread.* If newbies get yelled at for not fulfilling these simple expectations, I have no pity for them; they are probably not the kinds of people I want to have around anyway.


*The only exceptions I'm comfortable with making are for people who make their first post(s) in the Individual Comic Discussion sub-forum (if a particular comic makes someone want to post, I'm not going to expect them to do recon on the fora) and possibly Serious Business (because some people will read the fora but not register, and Serious Business has a way of making people want to throw in their 2¢).
Last edited by Alisto on Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:36 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Crazy like a BOX!
<Jauss> Because karaoke, especially karaoke + lesbians = Alisto, amirite?
<rachel> Old people ain't got shit to do but look at clocks.

User avatar
LE4dGOLEM
is unique......wait, no!!!!
Posts: 5972
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:10 pm UTC
Location: :uoıʇɐɔol

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:33 pm UTC

Alisto wrote:Stuff


Well played and well put, sir.

EDIT: I support this argument.
Image Une See Fights - crayon super-ish hero webcomic!
doogly wrote:It would just be much better if it were not shitty.

User avatar
warriorness
Huge Fucking-Lazer
Posts: 1610
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:33 am UTC
Location: CMU, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Contact:

Postby warriorness » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:36 am UTC

Alisto wrote:stuff


Summary: lurk moar, n00bs

I agree with everything you said, by the way.
Iluvatar wrote:Love: Gimme the frickin' API.
yy2bggggs, on Fischer Random chess wrote:Hmmm.... I wonder how how a hypermodern approach would work

User avatar
RealGrouchy
Nobody Misses Me As Much As Meaux.
Posts: 6704
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 7:17 am UTC
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Postby RealGrouchy » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:51 am UTC

Every time I see this thread has a new post, I can't help but think,

Why is this thread not dead yet!?!

- RG>
Jack Saladin wrote:etc., lock'd
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:At least he has the decency to REMOVE THE GAP BETWEEN HIS QUOTES....
Sungura wrote:I don't really miss him. At all. He was pretty grouchy.

User avatar
Gelsamel
Lame and emo
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:49 am UTC
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Postby Gelsamel » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:38 am UTC

Every forum I have been on where during my stay someone went from member status to moderator status they always seem to get a lot angrier.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No


Return to “Site/Forum issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests