Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

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hall2k
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Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hall2k » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:32 am UTC

I've been working on a research project in repast/swarm, which is implemented in java/objective C, respectively, and now I'm going to be applying for co-op jobs for the summer. Is there anything particularly useful about Objective C? I'm debating whether to even put it on my resume, as I'm running majorly short on space. Maybe there's some kind of niche market for the language, like COBOL is to the banks? Or is it totally useless knowledge?

Karrion
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby Karrion » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:47 am UTC

Objective C is heavily used for Mac, and especially iPhone/iPod development, so it's a fairly big niche.

hall2k
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hall2k » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:49 am UTC

Really? Thats awesome, since I'll be applying to Apple soon. They only list C/C++ on their job ads.

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hall2k » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:50 am UTC

Of course, there's the swarm simulation kit that I'm using, but its basically been abandoned lately

bieber
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby bieber » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:51 am UTC

As I understand it, it's pretty much the defacto language for applications development on Mac OS X and the iPhone (but don't trust me too much on that, since I've never actually touched either platform).

Perhaps you could list all the variants of C you know on a single resume line?

hall2k
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hall2k » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:54 am UTC

I only know C, C++, and Objective C. And C++ I've barely touched, I really just don't like it for some reason. I much prefer Java. It really doesnt help that my university uses Java for everything, so I never have a reason nor the time to use much else.

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby |Erasmus| » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:57 am UTC

bieber wrote:As I understand it, it's pretty much the defacto language for applications development on Mac OS X and the iPhone (but don't trust me too much on that, since I've never actually touched either platform).

Perhaps you could list all the variants of C you know on a single resume line?

Cocoa (sp?) is written in Objective-C, which means that to interface with the native mac UI stuff you would need to write using Objective-C. I would also imagine that some of the more popular cross-platform UI toolkits would have mac bindings, and honestly I would have expected them to be more popular (since even if you do want to support mac, you are more likely to support windows first simply due to the larger customer base).

quick googling reports that Qt and wxWidgets are available on macos, and gtk is working on native support. It surprises me that a lot other than in-house Apple stuff would be written in objective-c when it would seem like less effort (overall) to produce cross-platform apps.

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby laranzu » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:54 pm UTC

hall2k wrote:I only know C, C++, and Objective C. And C++ I've barely touched, I really just don't like it for some reason. I much prefer Java. It really doesnt help that my university uses Java for everything, so I never have a reason nor the time to use much else.


Objective-C is very much the preferred language for MacOS X development, and the ONLY language for iPhone development. (Anything else on the iPhone is translated into Objective-C and compiled as such - no Python/Java/etc implementations allowed.)

If you're going to apply for jobs at Apple, Objective-C and Cocoa should be a separate item.

Not liking C++ just shows you have good taste :-) (And Linus Torvalds hates it too.)

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby bieber » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:12 pm UTC

laranzu wrote:
hall2k wrote:(And Linus Torvalds hates it too.)

Considering Linus', shall we say, contentious nature, I generally take "Torvalds hates it" as a sound endorsement ;)

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby TheChewanater » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:55 pm UTC

laranzu wrote:Not liking C++ just shows you have good taste :-) (And Linus Torvalds hates it too.)

He also hates microkernels. Apple wouldn't like that.
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby thoughtfully » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:08 pm UTC

I like Linus. He's practically docile compared to the other high profile personalities, RMS and ESR :)
and he's usually right, especially with respect to C++
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby MoghLiechty2 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:16 pm UTC

laranzu wrote:Not liking C++ just shows you have good taste :-) (And Linus Torvalds hates it too.)

Although I doubt that will get you a job at Apple.

One of the biggest objections to C++ is that it fuels the creation of piss-poor programmers, which is true. But the weight of it kind of disappears when you're in an organization that, you know, only hires good programmers. Like, (and it pains me to say it) Apple.

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby Area Man » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:41 am UTC

That's an illusion. The piss-poor programmers fail at C++ (where they're easy to detect) and stick to Java, where it's easy to hide and pretend you know what you're doing. That's why we never hire "java" programmers, even to write java.
As for Objective C, tbh, I've never come across it and don't have an opinion -- which may say something in itself. But then I don't work with macs.
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby stephentyrone » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:50 am UTC

laranzu wrote:the ONLY language for iPhone development. (Anything else on the iPhone is translated into Objective-C and compiled as such - no Python/Java/etc implementations allowed.)


Not quite. C and Assembly are first-class languages on the iPhone. =)
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hall2k
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hall2k » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:58 pm UTC

stephentyrone wrote:
laranzu wrote:the ONLY language for iPhone development. (Anything else on the iPhone is translated into Objective-C and compiled as such - no Python/Java/etc implementations allowed.)


Not quite. C and Assembly are first-class languages on the iPhone. =)


Well, C is more of a given, as it is a subset of Objective C.

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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hooktail154 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:38 am UTC

hall2k wrote:
stephentyrone wrote:
laranzu wrote:the ONLY language for iPhone development. (Anything else on the iPhone is translated into Objective-C and compiled as such - no Python/Java/etc implementations allowed.)


Not quite. C and Assembly are first-class languages on the iPhone. =)


Well, C is more of a given, as it is a subset of Objective C.

Actually, Obj-C is a large addition to the C language

AND, Obj-C is the only way to produce efficient, fast, easy, and most importantly, polished apps for the iPhone

And, Apple uses a different environment for a few of its apps. Carbon, its used in the Finder and in iTunes, and it turns out to be much less user friendly than Cocoa, although possibly more powerful

EDIT: Don't forget the iPad
ya think Apples marketing department could have come up with a better name
MOST DEFINITELY

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thoughtfully
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby thoughtfully » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:48 am UTC

It'll blow over. Nobody complains about Nintendo Wii anymore :)
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby stephentyrone » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:49 am UTC

hooktail154 wrote:Actually, Obj-C is a large addition to the C language


Actually, Objective-C is a really tiny addition to the C language. A little bit of syntax for messages, and a small runtime for garbage collection and dynamic messaging. That's it.

The Cocoa libraries are huge, but they are not, strictly speaking, part of the Objective-C language.

AND, Obj-C is the only way to produce efficient, fast, easy, and most importantly, polished apps for the iPhone


This is not quite true. It's necessary to interact with the UIKit libraries and Objective-C runtime in order to do most GUI stuff on the iPhone, but you could very easily write the entirety of an app, except for the GUI hooks, in straight ANSI C. It would be much harder, but one could in theory write an app without any Objective-C at all, since the runtime actually presents a standard C API to the system for message dispatch. I'm not suggesting that anyone should go out and do this (don't!), but it is, strictly speaking, possible.
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hooktail154
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Re: Is there any real-world use for Objective C?

Postby hooktail154 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:05 am UTC

@thoughtfull: hahaha they call it Wii, haha thats funny /sarcasm

@stephentyrone: yea, Obj-C is mostly syntax, but the Cocoa and Cocoa Touch the largest parts, and also, Apple would probably frown upon anything not written in Cocoa Touch for the iPhone

Darn, i was planing i using asssssembly for my next app, NOT


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