If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

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Phoenix '97
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If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Phoenix '97 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:38 am UTC

...you end up with the following graph.
Image

Now I was expecting a loop or two (other than Yahoo! to itself), or the graph being disjoint, but what's Yahoo! doing to make everything (eventually) point to itself? :)
I'm not terribly interested in the sites themselves, but moreso the graph topology. We briefly discussed web crawlers (generic ones, not the site itself) in one of my CS classes... I can't remember much of it, but could the topology have anything to do with crawlers not proceeding further down a tree/path once they come to a site they've seen before?
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby jaap » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:58 am UTC

Phoenix '97 wrote:Now I was expecting a loop or two (other than Yahoo! to itself), or the graph being disjoint, but what's Yahoo! doing to make everything (eventually) point to itself? :)

No doubt having 'search' in its URL helps.
Did you search for "search engine" with or without quotes around it?

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Berengal » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:14 am UTC

Google lead me to AltaVista, but AltaVista lead me to Wikipedia...
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby psykx » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:56 pm UTC

If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

you'll break the internet :0
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby b.i.o » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:29 pm UTC

Google leads me to Dogpile (which then leads me straight to Yahoo).

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby 0xBADFEED » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

Does this make Yahoo an attractive fixed point of the internet?

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby headprogrammingczar » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:26 pm UTC

0xBADFEED wrote:Does this make Yahoo an attractive fixed point of the internet?

Unfortunately, yes.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Why Two Kay » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:04 pm UTC

b.i.o wrote:Google leads me to Dogpile


Same here.
tl;dr - I said nothing important.

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Phoenix '97
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Phoenix '97 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:40 am UTC

1. I'm using search engine as the query without the quotes.
2. It's interesting to note that google.com leads to AltaVista but google.ca leads to DogPile.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Mach1ne » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:06 am UTC

For me, google.com sent me to dogpile. Maybe its been changed since then? Also dogpiles first result was actually something called People Search. Odd.

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby santy22 » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

i thought it would create a time paradox, or maybe "all the roads lead to google" :?

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Why Two Kay » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:31 am UTC

Phoenix '97 wrote:1. I'm using search engine as the query without the quotes.
2. It's interesting to note that google.com leads to AltaVista but google.ca leads to DogPile.

Image
tl;dr - I said nothing important.

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:04 pm UTC

For me, search engine leads to Google...
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby skeptical scientist » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:16 am UTC

I would have expected more of the search engines to ensure that they come up first.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby fazzone » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:56 pm UTC

Hehe, cool. Just last week I wrote a web-spider/crawler (in Java), it'd be pretty cool to automate this using it. The only problem is when you try to access a URL like "http://www.google.com/search?q=search+engine" with the Java API (java.net.URL), Java just says you get a 403. But it's kinda cool to see how "closed" a site is, as a system of hyperlinks. Google, for example, links only to itself and the spider returns after going to their about page or something. Yahoo, however, links to all its sub-sites, and to opera.com, mozilla.com, microsoft.com, adobe.com, bluelithium.com and a bunch of other sites.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Brooklynxman » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

0xBADFEED wrote:Does this make Yahoo an unattractive fixed point of the internet?


Fixed, and yes
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby brainfsck » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:22 am UTC

fazzone wrote:Hehe, cool. Just last week I wrote a web-spider/crawler (in Java), it'd be pretty cool to automate this using it. The only problem is when you try to access a URL like "http://www.google.com/search?q=search+engine" with the Java API (java.net.URL), Java just says you get a 403.

Google doesn't want you to access their search engine through scripts:

Code: Select all

me$ curl -IL www.google.com/search?q=abc
HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden
...
Connection: close


But you can do it anyways: Image

Code: Select all

me$ curl -ILA "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.0.8) Gecko/2009032608 Firefox/3.0.8" http://www.google.com/search?q=abc
HTTP/1.0 200 OK
...
Connection: close

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Dropzone » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

Or, to do the same thing in Java:

Code: Select all

URL url = new URL("http://www.google.com/search?q=abc");
URLConnection connection = url.openConnection();
connection.setRequestProperty("User-Agent", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; "
        + "en-GB; rv:1.9.0.8) Gecko/2009032609 Firefox/3.0.8 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)");
InputStream stream = connection.getInputStream();
...

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Kurushimi » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:11 pm UTC

Phoenix '97 wrote:1. I'm using search engine as the query without the quotes.
2. It's interesting to note that google.com leads to AltaVista but google.ca leads to DogPile.


I went to google.com. It leads to DogPile.

Also, I remember playing around with search engines a bit ago. It gave me a different result from my home than from my school library.

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:22 pm UTC

Google works based on your browser history. It searches that first and puts those results at the top. Try searching on an "empty" browser, and you will find that all (most) roads lead to Google.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Cleverbeans » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:34 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:Google works based on your browser history. It searches that first and puts those results at the top. Try searching on an "empty" browser, and you will find that all (most) roads lead to Google.


When I google search engine I get dogpile, but I've never been there. I'm not sure this is correct.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby phlip » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:26 am UTC

Note that Google also has about fifty million and a half servers, in various places around the globe... each with their own local version of their index of the Internet. People in different places can and will get different results for the same query, if they end up connected to different servers, just because of differences in the database.

And that's before other localised things kick in, like google.com.au increasing the rank of sites in Australia, and such.

[edit] For the record, from here, I get AltaVista before Dogpile on google.com, Dogpile before AltaVista on google.com.au.

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enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Cosmologicon » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:43 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:Google works based on your browser history.

Is that even possible? It seems like a huge security hole for a website to have access to your history.

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:16 pm UTC

Cosmologicon wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:Google works based on your browser history.

Is that even possible? It seems like a huge security hole for a website to have access to your history.

Yes, and no. The history-fetching cookie isn't that hard to write, but it doesn't give away any information. They can't access your cached copy of the page, so they have to use their own, meaning anything password-protected can't be indexed. https websites can still be indexed, but again, Google doesn't get your cookies so they don't get any personal information. Even without the history-scanning cookie, your browsing history is right up there with your IP address in terms of degree of privacy you have.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Cosmologicon » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:25 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:
Cosmologicon wrote:It seems like a huge security hole for a website to have access to your history.

Yes, and no. The history-fetching cookie isn't that hard to write,

I don't believe it. I searched for "history-fetching cookie" and "history-scanning cookie" and "cookie that reads your browser history" and I didn't find anything. I've read up a little bit about cookies in general before, but I've never heard of this before. You make it sound like a cookie is a program rather than a piece of data, though, so I don't really know how what you're saying could be true anyway. I'm going to have to say citation needed.

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:26 pm UTC

Durdur. I'm an idiot. I read this, but didn't bother to pay attention to the fact that you need a Google account to do it.
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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby zombiefeynman » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:41 pm UTC

Cosmologicon wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:
Cosmologicon wrote:It seems like a huge security hole for a website to have access to your history.

Yes, and no. The history-fetching cookie isn't that hard to write,

I don't believe it. I searched for "history-fetching cookie" and "history-scanning cookie" and "cookie that reads your browser history" and I didn't find anything. I've read up a little bit about cookies in general before, but I've never heard of this before. You make it sound like a cookie is a program rather than a piece of data, though, so I don't really know how what you're saying could be true anyway. I'm going to have to say citation needed.


Isn't that google-analytics?

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Re: If you type "search engine" into a search engine...

Postby Doodle77 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:20 am UTC

Cosmologicon wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:
Cosmologicon wrote:It seems like a huge security hole for a website to have access to your history.

Yes, and no. The history-fetching cookie isn't that hard to write,

I don't believe it. I searched for "history-fetching cookie" and "history-scanning cookie" and "cookie that reads your browser history" and I didn't find anything. I've read up a little bit about cookies in general before, but I've never heard of this before. You make it sound like a cookie is a program rather than a piece of data, though, so I don't really know how what you're saying could be true anyway. I'm going to have to say citation needed.

It doesn't read your browser history, Google just tracks what you search on it's search engine.
Anyways, this is the graph I get, the ones pointing off link to non-search-engine results:
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