Super Spy Rumble - Replacement Sign-Ups!

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Tormod
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Tormod » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:35 am UTC

Tbh I think it's strong enough as it is :P

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Vieto
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Vieto » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:33 am UTC

A note on Q's armoury:
Yes, you cannot/should not be able to use it on the same turn you finish charging it up, so unless you don't mind saving up over the course of multiple turns, it is a trade off between how much you bid for it.

VrookLamar
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby VrookLamar » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:05 am UTC

Changing my private powers to this, unless people object:

False Gift - In every turn where you are alive, you may spend 20 to choose an opponent to whom you donate a cloaking device as a gift. The recipient gains an additional 30 defense against regular attacks for each present. However, the cloaking devices are actually stuffed with plastic explosives. Once per game, you may detonate some or all of the gifts for free, cancelling the defense bonus and doing 40 (blockable) damage per gift. - timeo danaos et dona ferentes

Plague-infected Boomerang - The owner of this power takes 5 unblockable damage every round due to plague infection.
You throw a boomerang that disables a specific target's attacks, defense, or powers (private and public) for a round. However, if your target survives the round, he target takes Plague-infected Boomerang from you.
(Note: the 5 damage is applied to the target when the boomerang is used, i.e. if player A uses the boomerang on player B, then player B takes 5 damage that same round.) - I caught your plague-infected boomerang and now I'm throwing it back at you.

(Reason: MacGyver was redundant and Boomerang was only useful as a finishing move. Now there is more of an incentive to use it.)

Other powers:


Spoiler:
Public:
Defense infiltration (30) - Whichever of your opponents assigns the largest number of spies to (regular) defense unnecessarily loses 10% (rounded down) of their spies. - Those spies you assigned to defense were actually infiltrated spies I sent to attack you!

Item:
Sticky bomb (X) - Attach a sticky bomb to a target that will explode after 2 rounds, doing 3X points of (blockable) damage. A person to whom the sticky bomb is attached can choose to burn 10 to attach it to someone else or remove it completely before it explodes. It cannot be reattached to the person who first attached the sticky bomb.- If there's a live bomb thrown nearby you, you have a chance to grab it and throw it away. However, if a sticky one is involved, you better run away really fast.


I am okay with other people's powers. Unless anyone objects, I Lock.

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dudiobugtron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:43 pm UTC

I really like false gift as a power, nice work! I think it would be more interesting than the MacGuyver power even if there weren't already other powers which gave similar results as MacGuyver.
I think the original boomerang was fine as it is. Having a finishing move is fine. It could also be used as a non-finishing move if you wanted, because it is really powerful.
There is currently more of an incentive to use the new one, sure, but now there's no real incentive to purchase it in the first place.

Also, I object on principle to replacing your powers with new powers, or with heavily editing your powers, after seeing the other players powers with the goal of making your powers fit in better.
Unless you give everyone else the opportunity to revise their powers in light of the powers of others; but I think that removes a lot of the fun. I think if we were going to do a Design By Committee version of Superhero rumble, we should do it like that from the start.

Note as well that the simulacrum super zeroxer (item) and Spy store sale (public power) and Stolen plans (private power) all allow ways to gain other players' private powers.

So, in summary:
1) I think false gift is a great power, and the game would be better if it replaced MacGuyver. However, I still think it shouldn't replace MacGuyver.
2) I think the new boomerang is worse than the original.
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VrookLamar
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby VrookLamar » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:08 pm UTC

Personally, I am in favor of replacing powers before bidding if it is likely to lead to more interesting gameplay.
Since we disagree on this, I suppose the majority of players or the mod should decide what happens.

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Snark
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Snark » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:10 pm UTC

I prefer slight edits to make the game playable over heavy edits to make a power less redundant or more interesting.
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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Vytron » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:07 pm UTC

Okay, the Power Design Phase is over, and in principle, just like it's not allowed for players to read the powers of other people before designing their own powers (we have strict rules about this, players post their powers in spoilers other players can't read and all) it shouldn't be allowed to discard powers and replace them by new ones.

The entire system would break if people could send "dummy powers" to be replaced later after they have read the powers by other people, and the Power Design phase could extend forever as new powers replace old ones and there's more time added to discuss them, and players replace their powers because of the new powers, and the game never starts because the players keep "improving the game" by replacing in "better and better" powers.

It's not legal for VrookLamar's False Gift to exist as it's a power designed after he read the powers of other people, which would be the same as reading the spoilers of other people before designing powers, which is currently no allowed.

So, unless people object, or there's an agreement that people can read spoilers by other people before designing their powers, I'm using old version of MacGyver and Boomerang as VrookLamar sent them.

TLDR: Private Powers are called "Private" for a reason, it's not meant to be possible to design a power like False Gift after having read about the rest of powers in the game. Sorry if this was left ambiguous on the rules of the OP, I just copy-pasted Snark's rules from Super Alien Rumble :oops:

Tormod
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Tormod » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:26 am UTC

I think false gift is a cool power, but I see the incentive to not set a precedence that allow for edits post reading the other powers.

I'd prefer false gift, but I see where you are comming from :)

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Vieto
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Vieto » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:34 am UTC

Yeah, I agree with Tormod; it's cool and less redundant, but precident over present.

VrookLamar
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby VrookLamar » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:48 am UTC

Ok, we will use the old powers then.

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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:47 pm UTC

The Powers of the Game, please post your bid for them in @Vytron Spoilers and don't read those spoilers by other players:

Blend In: You may not defend. Each turn, you may pick a player. You are unaffected by attacks or powers targeted at you, but if the chosen player is attacked for more than their defense (except by you), you take that damage instead. Your attacks against the chosen player ignore one point of defense for each of your attacking spies, and this damage harms the chosen player instead of you. This power cannot be used on the same person twice in a row.

Infiltrate: You may assign spies to infiltrate other's bases. For each spy spent, your next attack against that target gains an extra 1 damage. The target of this ability is not public.

Velcro shoes: Your spies have velcro shoes. This means they can walk over walls and buildings etc..., and so ignore any defense from powers when attacking. (Only real spies can defend against them.)

Stolen Plans: You can only use this power once per turn. Spend X, where X is the power level of target private power an opponent controls. You get a copy of that power for this turn, which you can use as normal this turn.

Splinter Faction: Whenever you deal damage to another player, the spies you would otherwise kill become a small spy agency (a sidekick) controlled by you with all of the larger faction's powers.

Q's Armory: You may spend energy to invest in Q-points (1 energy = 1 Q-point). When you have equal Q-points to this move's power level, you may reduce your Q-points to zero to use any item that you have already purchased.

MacGyver - Your creativity allows you to improvise items at a small cost. Burn 5 at any time to create an item, even if you had already purchased it before. You may create up to 1 + floor(Power level / 20) items per turn. You still need to spend the item's cost to actually use it. You may 'store' created items for later use. - His name is MacGyver; he can fix anything

Boomerang - You throw a boomerang that disables a specific target's attacks, defense, or powers (private and public) for a round, and also does (Power level) unblockable damage. However, when you use it, your target takes Boomerang from you (unless the target dies in the same round). - I caught your boomerang and now I'm throwing it back at you.

Spy Allies - In Rounds 1 through 5, your spy friends come help you fight and add 100 Spies to your defense each of those rounds. In rounds 6-infinity, your spy friends come help you fight and add 10 Spies to your defense each of those rounds. You may not decline the Allies' help if you have this power.

Saboteur Spy - Each round, you may choose one player and one item or public power. That player may not buy that item or public power for the next 3 rounds (starting with the round after you use this power, so if you target Snark/Spy Store Sale in Round 1, Snark may not buy Spy Store Sale in Rounds 2, 3, or 4). You may not target the same player/item or public power combo that has previously been targeted (even if someone else did it before with a copy of Saboteur Spy). You also may not target the same player or item/public power that you targeted in the prior round. (A valid list of targets each round could look like A/1, B/2, no target, B/1, A/2, and so on. A/1, B/1 in back-to-back rounds would be invalid as would A/1, A/2.)

Blending trenchcoats (passive)
Defending against an army is easy, a few spies not so much.
Whenever you attack a player with 10 or less spies, they ignore any amount of defence that player has.

Invisible ink (passive)
Didn't you read the fine print?
Whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an attack you can change one numerical value of a power or the powerlevel by up to 10%, rounded up. If this would cause a division by zero, that alteration is forbidden by the international spylaw.

Cloak and Dagger division - once per round, you may spend this ability's power level to find out one other players' moves before submitting your own actions

Knockout Gas - Spend 30 spies and nullify all attacks against you this round, but also all of your own attack, defense, and actions. Burn 10 spies each time you do this.

Mod Note on Items: While there are powers that allow players to buy already bought items or to store them for later use, they don't specify they allow to use Items which have disappeared from the game. So, specifically, MacGyver will be able to create already bought Items that will be usable at any point, but once all players have bought a certain Item, it'll disappear from the game, as per the rules, and players will not be able to create it any more with Q's Armory/MacGyver.

Public Powers (buyable once per round - Spies return next round):
Spoiler:
Ambush (40)
Your attacks against players who are being attacked for more than their defense by people other than you are doubled in strength.

Portable Maginot Line: Spend X and choose an opponent. You get (Y-1)*X defense against that opponent this turn, where Y is the number of players still left in the game. You may only use this against one player each turn.

The Usual Suspects: Cost: X spies, where X is your bid for this power. If you win, burn the spies you paid for this power, but redirect all attacks sent at you towards another player.

Defense infiltration (30) - Whichever of your opponents spends the largest number of spies on defense unnecessarily (i.e. whose defense exceeds the attacks on them by the greatest amount) loses 10% (rounded down) of their spies. - Those spies you assigned to defense were actually infiltrated spies I sent to attack you!

Spy Store Sale - Cost: 1 - In the same round that you buy this, choose a private power (even ones that are gone from the game due to players dying). If you currently have that power, you sell it back for a part of its cost (you lose that power and gain Spies equal to its power level times 0.75 rounded down to the nearest integer). If you currently don't have that power, you buy it with a price increase (you gain that power as it was at the beginning of the game during bidding and lose/burn Spies equal to its power level times 1.25 rounded up to the nearest integer). You may not buy the same power more than once using Spy Store Sale though you gain buy a Power that you've owned before (to prevent infinite loops of buying a power, getting a benefit from it, then selling it back, and making a profit somehow).
Note: Certain powers may need to be banned from being buyable if they wouldn't work well with multiple people having the power at once or being gained mid-game - the mod or a majority of players can decide for which powers this is necessary, if any.

Pass the blame
Cost: Burn 5 spies * number of alive players
You send out spies to your enemies to make the galactic organ for monitoring the limited use of prohibited items think it wasn't you that used the item after all.
The activation of this power will reset the availability of all items to you, but the spies are burned in the process, never to return home.

Super Soldier Serum - Costs X Spies. Those same spies may attack for double damage, but after attacking the serum kills them


Items (buyable once per game - Spies are burned)
Spoiler:
Smoke Bomb (100)
All players who attack you this turn instead attack themselves.

Revenge Ray: Cost: 10. At the end of the turn, everyone who damaged you this turn takes unavoidable damage equal to the amount of damage they did to you this turn.

Government Shutdown: Cost: 10 spies. All public powers are rendered unusable this turn, because you forced a government shutdown.

Sticky bomb (X) - Attach a sticky bomb to a target that will explode after 2 rounds, doing 3X points of (blockable) damage. A person to whom the sticky bomb is attached can choose to burn 10 to attach it to someone else or remove it completely before it explodes. It cannot be reattached to the person who first attached the sticky bomb.- If there's a live bomb thrown nearby you, you have a chance to grab it and throw it away. However, if a sticky one is involved, you better run away really fast.

Spy Associates - Cost: 9 - Gain Spies equal to 10 times the round number when you bought this item. If you manage to buy this item more than once, then any time you activate it after the first time, you only gain 1 Spy. (because this item would be pretty broken if anything allowed buying an item multiple times.)

the Simulacrum Super Zeroxer
Cost:10 spies
If you only successfully attack one other player this round you may choose one of that players private powers to duplicate.
The duplicate will be an identical copy of the power at the time the copy is made, but any changes made to the original at a later stage will not be reflected on the copy.

Dubiously Diabolical Doomsday Device - This item may not be bought until round 4 begins. Afterwards, it will be given only to the highest bidder each round. After buying this item, you may choose whether or not to activate it. If activated, the doomsday device will initiate a countdown, and after three turns, kills everyone unless it can be disarmed by killing its owner.

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dudiobugtron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:45 pm UTC

Spies are burned when buying items? O.o

I should have read the fine print more carefully. XD
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dudiobugtron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:50 pm UTC

EditL: sorry for double-post.

@Modtron:
Spoiler:
Blend In: Bid 4
Infiltrate: Bid 7
Velcro shoes: Bid 5
Stolen Plans: Bid 21
Splinter Faction: Bid 77
Q's Armory: Bid 1
MacGyver - Bid 1
Boomerang - Bid 41
Spy Allies - Bid 3
Saboteur Spy - bid 1
Blending trenchcoats Bid 4
Invisible ink bid 7
Cloak and Dagger division - Bid 11
Knockout Gas - Bid 1


Question about splinter faction - it says the splinter factions have 'all of the larger faction's powers'. Does this mean they have all of their powers at the time of splintering, or, all of their current powers?
(For example, if the larger faction gains or loses a power after the splintering, does that affect the splinter faction?)
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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Vytron » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:58 pm UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:Spies are burned when buying items? O.o

I should have read the fine print more carefully. XD


Did not add Items to the "Spies are spent/assigned/allocated when you attack, defend, or activate certain Powers. Spies used in this way come back the next round (generally)" on purpose, yes.

However, if this is taking players by surprise, they can twerk the price of their items if they want.

dudiobugtron wrote:Question about splinter faction - it says the splinter factions have 'all of the larger faction's powers'. Does this mean they have all of their powers at the time of splintering, or, all of their current powers?
(For example, if the larger faction gains or loses a power after the splintering, does that affect the splinter faction?)


Understanding it as in "if the opponent has => spies than the splinter user, spies keep their powers. If the opponent has < spies than the splinter user, the spies change their powers to that of the splinter user." Does not say they change their powers to the biggest faction after creation.

Also, double posting is fine :)

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dudiobugtron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby dudiobugtron » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:04 am UTC

Vytron wrote:Understanding it as in "if the opponent has => spies than the splinter user, spies keep their powers. If the opponent has < spies than the splinter user, the spies change their powers to that of the splinter user." Does not say they change their powers to the biggest faction after creation.


I'm pretty confident that by 'larger faction', the writer meant 'original faction'. I think they were (incorrectly) imagining that the splinter faction would obviously be the smaller.
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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:26 am UTC

Requesting Vieto for clarification so that it's implemented as supposed to.

Tormod
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:38 am UTC

Mod Note on Items: While there are powers that allow players to buy already bought items or to store them for later use, they don't specify they allow to use Items which have disappeared from the game. So, specifically, MacGyver will be able to create already bought Items that will be usable at any point, but once all players have bought a certain Item, it'll disappear from the game, as per the rules, and players will not be able to create it any more with Q's Armory/MacGyver.


Q's Armory only references items that you have previously bought, why can't you continue to use an item with Q after it's bought by everyone if you just got it before it disappered?

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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:28 am UTC

Because it only allows the power to buy powers that you wouldn't be able to buy because you've already purchased them, but the rules make items disappear from the game and so those powers wouldn't be accessible in any way?

Like a program:

Is the item in the game? Yes. Has it been bought before? No. -> Buy it

Is the item in the game? Yes. Has it been bought before? Yes. -> Can't buy it

Is the item in the game? Yes. Has it been bought before? Yes. Does the player have enough Q-points to acquire it? Yes. -> Buy it

Is the item in the game? Yes. Has it been bought before? Yes. Does the player have enough Q-points to acquire it? No. -> Can't buy it

Is the item in the game? No. -> Can't buy it

Of course, this is the current implementation, if players want that Q's Armory brings items back that have been removed from the game, this can be changed.

VrookLamar
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby VrookLamar » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:05 am UTC

In the OP it explicitly says spies are spent when you buy an item:
Each Round, a player may purchase one item from the ones available by spending the cost for that Item

This greatly influenced my Item and possibly other people's. If you insist that buying items burns spies, I change Sticky Bomb cost to 5 and damage to 50.

Also, I intended MacGyver to work even after all items have been purchased (hence 'at any time').

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:52 pm UTC

Q's Armory: You may spend energy to invest in Q-points (1 energy = 1 Q-point). When you have equal Q-points to this move's power level, you may reduce your Q-points to zero to use any item that you have already purchased.

Figured this could use last known information and remember items you have bought even though they don't exist anymore, but I don't care eather way, as long as it's agreed before I bid ^^

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby dudiobugtron » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

VrookLamar wrote:In the OP it explicitly says spies are spent when you buy an item:
Each Round, a player may purchase one item from the ones available by spending the cost for that Item

OK, phew, I wasn't imagining it. :)
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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:20 pm UTC

Okay:

Items no longer burn used spies to buy them.

MacGyver & Q's Armory can now buy items bought before even after those items have disappeared from game.

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firesoul31
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby firesoul31 » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:21 pm UTC

@Vytron (Bids)
Spoiler:
Blending Trenchcoats: 80
Ambush: 40
Invisible Ink: 30
Others: 0


Locking bids.
Last edited by firesoul31 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:37 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Snark
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Starting!

Postby Snark » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:04 pm UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
Stolen Plans: 20
Spy Allies: 25
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Tormod
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:36 am UTC

What happens if two players cloak and dagger division eachother?
I'd guess they don't see eachothers moves

Does cloack and dagger division used on an other player reveal his target of infiltration?

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:35 am UTC

Yeah, they wouldn't be able to see each other.

Cloak and Dagger should reveal everything that that player sent, yes.

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:33 pm UTC

Oooh, so you get more information than is later revealed to the other players after all the moves are submitted, that makes the power way better :P

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:26 pm UTC

After all the moves are submitted, except yours, so you can use that information to pick better moves.

Still waiting for bids from Tormod, Vieto, VrookLamar, and thecamoninja.

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:07 pm UTC

Posting later isn't half as good as knowing who someone targeted with infiltrate so you can blackmail them :D

I hope to do the bidding tomorrow, kinda grading some physics-tests today :(

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:35 pm UTC

I couldn't find it in the rules, can you defend other players?

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:38 pm UTC

Tormod wrote:I couldn't find it in the rules, can you defend other players?

Not without a special power allowing you to do so.
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:48 pm UTC

How does blend in work if someone with velcro shoes attack them?

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:49 pm UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
Tormod wrote:I couldn't find it in the rules, can you defend other players?

Not without a special power allowing you to do so.


Thanks :)

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby firesoul31 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:54 pm UTC

Tormod wrote:How does blend in work if someone with velcro shoes attack them?


I read Blend In as superseding Velcro Shoes (or Blending Trenchcoats, for that matter), as they only ignore defence and not a redirect such as Smoke Bomb or The Usual Suspects. I would think that "unaffected by attacks" would fall under this same category. This also applies to Knockout Gas, unlike what it would be with, say, Perfect Shield.
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:21 am UTC

Bidding deadline has been set to 48 hours from now.

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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vieto » Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:21 am UTC

Vytron wrote:
dudiobugtron wrote:Question about splinter faction - it says the splinter factions have 'all of the larger faction's powers'. Does this mean they have all of their powers at the time of splintering, or, all of their current powers?
(For example, if the larger faction gains or loses a power after the splintering, does that affect the splinter faction?)


Understanding it as in "if the opponent has => spies than the splinter user, spies keep their powers. If the opponent has < spies than the splinter user, the spies change their powers to that of the splinter user." Does not say they change their powers to the biggest faction after creation.

dudiobugtron wrote:I'm pretty confident that by 'larger faction', the writer meant 'original faction'. I think they were (incorrectly) imagining that the splinter faction would obviously be the smaller.


DBT is correct about my intention. By 'larger faction', I had meant 'original faction'

Also, I was going to ask if Vytron was going to make players burn spies again to use them from Q's armoury, but that appears to be nullified as an issue.

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Vytron
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vytron » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:30 am UTC

Sending reminder PMs to Tormod, Vieto, VrookLamar, and thecamoninja.

VrookLamar
Posts: 21
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby VrookLamar » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:30 am UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
Blend In: 3

Infiltrate: 7

Velcro shoes: 2

Stolen Plans: 6

Splinter Faction: 40

Q's Armory: 31

MacGyver - 4

Boomerang -7

Spy Allies - 18

Saboteur Spy - 11

Blending trenchcoats 18

Invisible ink 5

Cloak and Dagger division 11

Knockout Gas - 3

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Vieto
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Vieto » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:16 pm UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
Q's Armoury: 36
Blending Trenchcoat: 74

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Posts: 5
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Re: Super Spy Rumble - Bidding!

Postby Tormod » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:25 pm UTC

Bids:
Spoiler:
Blend in: 63
Splinter Faction: 73
Blending trenchcoats: 63
Invisible ink: 33


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