DFTM: Spring 02 (Replacement England wanted)

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Diemo
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses

Postby Diemo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:05 pm UTC

Given that there has been communication, I am going to ban a swop between DJ and Vytron. Sorry, Vytron :(. If it helps, Russia is a hard country to play as.

Djehutynakht wrote:Littered all over the map are tiny black dots/targets? What are they? (do they denote supply centers, and places without the dots are just simply provinces to move in and out of?)

Yup, supply centres. So, every supply center allows you to support a single unit. You are only allowed to disband units when they are retreating (e.g. you can't just say disband A Trieste, it has to be a valid retreat) or if you can no longer support them. As you can't force your own units to retreat this can have some consequences :).

There are two different stages per year, Spring and Fall. In Spring, Units get to move. In Fall, Units move, then after retreats, supply center ownership changes hands. You keep a supply center as long as there is no enemy unit in it in Fall. For reference, enemy here refers to all other players, there are no friends in diplomacy :). After supply centers have been reassigned, there is a disband/build phase. You can only have as many units as SCs, so if you have more units (e.g. you lost a SC) then you have to disband till units/SC are the same.

If you have more, then you get to build. You can only build on your original 3 SC (4 for Russia) and the SC must be empty and yours. Again, you can build up to the number of SC. If you have more SC then build spots (e.g. you pick up 4 SC in a turn) then the builds are waived until the next winter phase.

If you miss your disbands then I will disband for you in the following order
Unit furthest from home SC, not in a SC
Unit closest to SC, not in a SC
Unit furtest from home SC, in a SC
Unit closest to home SC, in a SC

If you miss your builds, then the builds will be waived.

Just a thought about the account hacking thing - is it against the rules of the game to hack Diemo's account?


Actually, yes, in most games I have played it is illegal to impersonate the Mod. Other players, sure, but not the God mod, I mean.

can we over-write orders that we have sent with new ones if it's before the time limit, or are our order submissions final? I'd like to submit orders early so I don't forget, but obviously might want to change them later as the result of some negotiations.


You can overwrite as many times as you like. The only rule here is not to send in partial orders. The latest set of orders recieved will be the one used. I will send you a reply to let you know orders are recieved, IF YOU DON'T GET THIS THEN I DON'T HAVE YOUR ORDERS!

On partial orders, if Italy sends in
A Ven - Tri
Fl Rom - Tys
Fl Nap - Ion

and later want to change it to A Ven - Trl, they have to send in a full set again.

A Ven -Trl will be adjudicated as
A Ven - Trl
Fl Rom Hold
Fl Nap Hold

In the event of an order being repeated
e.g. A Ven - Trl
Fl Nap -Ion
A Ven - Tri
the latest order will be taken (e.g. A Ven - Tri)
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Djehutynakht
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:39 pm UTC

Diemo wrote: If it helps, Russia is a hard country to play as.


Why thank you for this glorious opportunity.

For the record, I've yet to recieve any word from anyone as either Russia or France.

By the way, do you want us to CC you on PMs, or do you want to be left out?
_____________________

So... anything anyone feels like talking about openly?

I'm most likely just going to stay around Russia for the first year or so. Feel around.

Such a shame we don't have a winter turn. I'd be unbeatable.

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Vytron
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:34 pm UTC

Okay, this game is turning out very hard to play because even though the forum is running at full speed, the control panel and private messages are taking WHOLE MINUTES to load, which is very frustrating, and without an Spoiler system in place in the thread, I'm going to:

Request firechicagop to replace me.

Thanks, and, I'm sorry.

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Djehutynakht
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:Okay, this game is turning out very hard to play because even though the forum is running at full speed, the control panel and private messages are taking WHOLE MINUTES to load, which is very frustrating, and without an Spoiler system in place in the thread, I'm going to:

Request firechicagop to replace me.

Thanks, and, I'm sorry.


It's just a temporary thing. I doubt it'll last long. We have two weeks. calm down.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:52 pm UTC

That does seem a bit of an over-reaction to the forum going slowly for a bit! I was looking forward to crushing you mercilessly working with you as a potential ally! :P
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

Yeah, I tend to freak out now and then.

Oh me yarm Private Messaging is working now!

Takes back request

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Djehutynakht
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:07 pm UTC

Good. Good.

Firechicago, I won't hamper your ability to be a replacement so early on, but if the game goes on long enough and nobody wants out, I'll hire you as a diplomat or something.
___________


Back to business...

...so... anyone have any global condordats they wish to discuss?

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Diemo
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:20 pm UTC

Quick Phone Post:

As people are new I will check orders until 1902. After that it is up to you. However if you are ever in doubt feel free to ask, and Ill let you know.
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Lawrencelot
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Lawrencelot » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:04 pm UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:Back to business...

...so... anyone have any global condordats they wish to discuss?

I am wondering what people think about strong alliances. I think every country has the possibility to conquer Europe if they work well together with their partner. I think if this happens, other countries should work together to prevent them from getting an advantage that we can't overcome. Even if those other countries were fighting. Anyone agrees/disagrees? And if agreed, at which point is it clear that countermeasures have to be taken?

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Djehutynakht
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:00 am UTC

Lawrencelot wrote:I am wondering what people think about strong alliances


Define "strong alliances". What kind of scenario are you thinking?

Lawrencelot wrote: I think every country has the possibility to conquer Europe if they work well together with their partner. I think if this happens, other countries should work together to prevent them from getting an advantage that we can't overcome. Even if those other countries were fighting. Anyone agrees/disagrees? And if agreed, at which point is it clear that countermeasures have to be taken?



What do you mean? If one country is doing fantastically well we should gang up against them? Or if two/three countries are in an unholy amount of amazing alliance and doing amazingly well?

Just wondering for some elaboration.

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dudiobugtron
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby dudiobugtron » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:52 am UTC

If anyone is doing amazingly well, I'd definitely be up for some 'countermeasures'!

Unless that person is me, in which case you should all just go about your business.

@Lawrencelot - to win, a player must control 18 supply centres at the end of a fall turn. So if anyone gets close to that, warning bells should start sounding. :)
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:13 am UTC

Which is why we'll have to be slowly eliminating each other.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:30 am UTC

By the way, how many people think they'll need two weeks? What I'm seeing somewhat in my discussions is "Im not sure. i need to see how other people move first".

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:45 pm UTC

Hmmm, I don't think I need more time. The rules say we can move to Order Writing Phase if all players agree?

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Sprocklem » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:44 pm UTC

I'm ready for ordery type stuff.

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Djehutynakht
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:52 am UTC

I am as well. I have stuff to talk to you all about, but I need to see what you're actually doing first.

So I'm ready to proceed when you all are.

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Diemo
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:43 pm UTC

If everyone sends in their orders marked FINAL, then I will adjudicate early.

By the way, do you want us to CC you on PMs, or do you want to be left out?

Leave me out, I don't want to be overrun with PMs :D

Winning
There is only one way to win a game of diplomacy, and that is to get to 18 centers. This is known as soloing, and in my experience is pretty rare.

The other way for the game to end is a Draw Including All Survivors (DIAS). The rules for that are in the name, basically. A draw will only occur if everyone votes YES. Not voting defaults to a NO vote.

Civil Disorder
If someone misses two consecutive turns or three total turns, then they will be replaced. If no replacement is found, their country will fall into Civil disorder. All units will default to hold, and any disbands will be done according to the rules for people who have not sent in disbands. All retreats for a country in CD will be Off The Board.

Convoys
A bit more info on convoys. You can only convoy with fleets taht are in open water (i.e., not in a coastal territory).
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:11 pm UTC

Wait, orders? What kind of orders can I send? O_O Didn't read anything about orders in phase 1 in the rules, can someone walk me by the hand a bit here? D:

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:19 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:Wait, orders? What kind of orders can I send? O_O Didn't read anything about orders in phase 1 in the rules, can someone walk me by the hand a bit here? D:


Okay, well you see the map that has the placement of troops on it on the OP?

You have troops. Namely, a Fleet in Brest, an army in Paris and an army in Marseilles

Now, the object is, obviously, conquest of some sort, through diplomacy or through the technical total win, as Diemo described, of capturing 18 centers.

To do this... you need to move your armies.

Basically an order consists of PMing diemo how you'd like your troops to move:

For instance:

F BRE-ENG is asking to move your fleet from the coast of Brest into the English channel.

However, for instance, if Snark gives the same order to his fleet in London, and you both try and move into the English channel with equal force, you will basically fend off each others attacks, and stay where you are.

Instructions about orders are in the rules (pdf), and include diagrams. I suggest reading them.

EDIT:

Go to "Order Writing Phase" on Page 3 of the PDF

This goes till page 17.

You don't have to read it all. But it gives some basic ideas. Orders, I understand it, are basically how we actually accomplish stuff.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:03 pm UTC

Ah, thanks! No idea we were already on the Order Writing Phase, still thought we were in the Diplomatic one!

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Lawrencelot
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Lawrencelot » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:14 pm UTC

I think the diplomatic phase only exists in real life diplomacy, on the internet the order writing kinda happens during the discussions, and at the deadline the moves are resolved

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:34 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:Ah, thanks! No idea we were already on the Order Writing Phase, still thought we were in the Diplomatic one!


Sorta what he said. In real diplomacy people talk and talk, and they have some orders in mind, which they may use during discussion and may themselves be changed by the discussions and deals they make. Then at the end of discussion everyone sits down, writes their orders, and reveals simultaneously.

And here pretty much the only requirement for order writing is that we have it in by the deadline, and we use all the other time in the turn to discuss, which may serve to shape our final orders.


Frankly, I have nothing else to discuss really until I... see what people are doing. Ergo my moves are in, and I'm finalizing. I'll probably have more to discuss next turn because I know what you're all up to.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Snark » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:49 pm UTC

Anyone want to set up an online tutor session (I'll be learning, not teaching) on one of the online sites?
Dashboard Confessional wrote:I want to give you whatever you need. What is it you need? Is it within me?


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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby dudiobugtron » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:27 am UTC

It's pretty easy to get an OK feel for the game just by reading the rules linked in the OP.

It's not easy to work out all the nuances of who-wins-when, but the basics of movement/attacking, and supporting, are all pretty easy to get IMO.

Also, I'm currently unable to use the PM system atm, but I'll be able to reply to any PMs once it's working again.
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:30 am UTC

What I don't get it's convoys, and I don't think I will unless I actually see them in action in the game.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:36 am UTC

I don't completely get them, but they seem simple. Essentially they go on water tiles and ferry armies from one coastal place on their tile to another.

For instance, if you had a fleet in the English channel, and troops in Brest, you could use the fleet in the Channel to convoy them over into Britain.

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Diemo
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:40 pm UTC

Ok, I'll throw up a few sample years (I'll steal them from an old Redscape game) when I get home. I'll, modify them so that all of the different rules are used and you can take a look at what each set of orders does.
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby bluebambue » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

Request for Diemo: Could you keep the first post updated with current deadlines?

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

It is?

Diemo wrote:Current Deadline:
Tuesday 17th of December 2013 at 10pm GMT.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:31 am UTC

So what now?

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:33 am UTC

Ok sample game. This is not based off any game! It is for illustrative porpoises only

Spring 01:
Orders:
Spoiler:
Austria:
A Budapest - Rumania
F Trieste - Venice
A Vienna - Bohemia

England:
F Edinburgh - Norwegian Sea
A Liverpool - Edinburgh
F London - North Sea

France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Marseilles - Spain
A Paris - Brest

Germany:
A Berlin - Kiel
F Kiel - Denmark
A Munich - Burgundy

Italy:
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Rome - Naples
A Venice - Trieste

Russia:
A Moscow - Livonia
F Sevastopol - Black Sea
F St Petersburg(sc) - Gulf of Bothnia
A Warsaw - Silesia

Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Constantinople


Map:
Spoiler:
SampleTurn1.png

Orders Resolved
Spoiler:
Austria:
A Budapest - Rumania
F Trieste - Venice (*Fails*)
A Vienna - Bohemia

England:
F Edinburgh - Norwegian Sea
A Liverpool - Edinburgh
F London - North Sea

France:
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Marseilles - Spain
A Paris - Brest

Germany:
A Berlin - Kiel
F Kiel - Denmark
A Munich - Burgundy

Italy:
F Naples - Ionian Sea
A Rome - Naples
A Venice - Trieste (*Fails*)

Russia:
A Moscow - Livonia
F Sevastopol - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
F St Petersburg(sc) - Gulf of Bothnia
A Warsaw - Silesia

Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
A Constantinople - Bulgaria
A Smyrna - Constantinople


Map:
Spoiler:
SampleTurn1Resolved.png


Fall 01:
Orders:
Spoiler:
Austria:
A Bohemia - Munich
A Rumania - Serbia
F Trieste Convoys A Venice - Albania

England:
A Edinburgh - Sweden
F North Sea Convoys A Edinburgh - Norway
F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea

France:
A Brest - Portugal
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Brest - Portugal
A Spain, no move received

Germany:
A Burgundy - Gascony
F Denmark - North Sea
A Kiel - Holland

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Greece
A Naples - Apulia
A Venice - Albania

Russia:
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden
A Livonia - St Petersburg
F Sevastopol - Black Sea
A Silesia - Berlin

Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Constantinople - Bulgaria


Orders Resolved:
Spoiler:
Austria:
A Bohemia - Munich
A Rumania - Serbia
F Trieste Convoys A Venice - Albania (*Fails*) This Fails because the fleet doing the convoy is in a coastal province

England:
A Edinburgh - Sweden (*Fails*)
F North Sea Convoys A Edinburgh - Norway (*Void*) This fails because the army doesn't move to where the fleet is convoying
F Norwegian Sea - Barents Sea

France:
A Brest - Portugal
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean Convoys A Brest - Portugal This succeeds as the army is moving to the correct place, and the fleet is in an ocean province
A Spain, no move received

Germany:
A Burgundy - Gascony
F Denmark - North Sea (*Fails*)
A Kiel - Holland

Italy:
F Ionian Sea - Greece
A Naples - Apulia
A Venice - Albania (*Fails*)

Russia:
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden
A Livonia - St Petersburg
F Sevastopol - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
A Silesia - Berlin

Turkey:
F Ankara - Black Sea (*Bounce*)
A Bulgaria - Rumania
A Constantinople - Bulgaria


Maps:
Spoiler:
SampleTurn2.png

StandardTurn2Resolved.png


As you can see, after the Fall the supply centers (black dots) have changed colour to show their respective owners.

Status:
Spoiler:
Ownership:

Austria: Budapest, Munich, Serbia, Trieste, Vienna.
England: Edinburgh, Liverpool, London.
France: Brest, Marseilles, Paris, Portugal, Spain.
Germany: Denmark, Holland, Kiel.
Italy: Greece, Naples, Rome, Venice.
Russia: Berlin, Moscow, Sevastopol, St Petersburg, Sweden,
Warsaw.
Turkey: Ankara, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Rumania, Smyrna.
Unowned: Belgium, Norway, Tunis.

Adjustments:

Austria: Supp 5 Unit 3 Build 2
England: Supp 3 Unit 3 Build 0
France: Supp 5 Unit 3 Build 2
Germany: Supp 3 Unit 3 Build 0
Italy: Supp 4 Unit 3 Build 1
Russia: Supp 6 Unit 4 Build 2
Turkey: Supp 5 Unit 3 Build 2


Winter '01:
Orders Recieved:
Spoiler:
Austria:
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest

France:
Build F Marseilles
Build F Brest

Italy:
Build F Naples

Russia:
Build A Moscow
Build A Warsaw

Turkey:
Build F Smyrna


Orders Resolved:
Spoiler:
Austria:
Build A Vienna
Build A Budapest

France:
Build F Marseilles
Build F Brest

Italy:
Build F Naples

Russia:
Build A Moscow
Build A Warsaw

Turkey:
Build F Smyrna
Build waived


Map:
Spoiler:
Winter 01.png


Disbands would happen the same time as builds.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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Djehutynakht
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:15 am UTC

Diemo wrote: illustrative porpoises only
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby dudiobugtron » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:41 am UTC

There is a message/s in my inbox I have been trying to reply to, but the PM system never seems to work for me!

I did actually get it to load (after about 5-10 mins of waiting) today, but then I got a 503 error when I tried to send my reply!

So, apologies to any country/ies who are waiting on my reply.

Also, I just realised that means I can't actually submit my moves either.
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Vytron
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Vytron » Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:10 am UTC

Same here.

AGH! RASDF! GRRRRR! D:< O______Ó F*******

Okay, done now.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:11 pm UTC

Ah the PM system....

Well, I'm finalized.

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:08 pm UTC

One day left guys. Any last minute deals?

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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

I think the PM system is working for me at the moment. Time to quickly send moves before it is down again!
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 pm UTC

23 and a half hours to deadline. Get your orders in. remember, if I haven't replied then I don't have your orders!
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Diemo
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Diemo » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:46 am UTC

Sorry guys, I am missing orders from a player, and as it is Spring '01 I am looking for a reconfirmation/replacement.
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This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
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Re: Diplomacy For The Masses: Spring '01

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:17 am UTC

Who be ye delayer? It's been two weeks man.

I've heard from every player but Blue, so I'm guessing Blue until all further notice.


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