Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

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threetwoone
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby threetwoone » Tue May 15, 2018 1:03 am UTC

186
Last reply that counts!
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PsiSquared
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby PsiSquared » Tue May 15, 2018 1:10 am UTC

And we're done!

Well, that was fun. :mrgreen:

If I'm not mistaken, there's about 50% chance that the winner will be either me, ThreeTwoOne or HeuristicallyAlone. Don't go anywhere, folks, I'm sure flicky is going to announce the official results shortly.

P.S.
The last number I've written here is so big that it would be illegal to mention it on the MNiB game (that will start shortly). This sounds like a joke, but it really isn't.

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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby threetwoone » Tue May 15, 2018 1:12 am UTC

Wait, what? You can go too big in MNiB?
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue May 15, 2018 2:44 am UTC

Looks like you guys are having a blast
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby PsiSquared » Tue May 15, 2018 2:59 am UTC

threetwoone wrote:Wait, what? You can go too big in MNiB?


Yes... sort-of.

Size, on its own, is not the problem.

The thing is, the rules of these games say that your entry must be computable. In other words, your entry must be translatable to an actual step-by-step process that calculates your number.

This rule exists to prevent people from "going out of the system" and saying things like "the largest number which can be named with a billion letters or less". That's considered cheating, because you're invoking the best billion-letter combination without actually bothering to find it, which completely misses the entire point of the game!

Now here comes the really interesting bit:

It turns out that there's a hard limit to how high you can go, without violating this rule. Really really big numbers - by their very nature - cannot be reduced into a step-by-step calculation process. Any number which is beyond a certain threshold, is simply unreachable unless you "cheat" in some way.

And that's why we can say that certain numbers are "so big they're not allowed". Technically, if you could reach those heights without violating the "computablility rule", that would be premissble. The only problem is that it can't be done. This can actually be proven: Such a feat is logically impossible, just like squaring the circle.

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Sabrar
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 15, 2018 4:22 am UTC

I didn't expect the game to be over by the time I wake up. Nice job!

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flicky1991
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby flicky1991 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:09 am UTC

Sabrar wrote:I didn't expect the game to be over by the time I wake up.
Same!

The winner is reply number 737. Congratulations, heuristically_alone!

heuristically_alone wrote:So uhhhh what now?
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Sabrar
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 15, 2018 5:47 am UTC

Congrats heury!

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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby Soupspoon » Tue May 15, 2018 5:54 am UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:So uhhhh what now?

So uhhhh what now?

:P

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heuristically_alone
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue May 15, 2018 12:05 pm UTC

:?: :!: I haven't even had a chance to catch up on the posts yet!
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flicky1991
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby flicky1991 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:19 pm UTC

Do you want to start a new round, heury?
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue May 15, 2018 12:23 pm UTC

Do people have enough interest, or are most being tired out from it now?
Last edited by heuristically_alone on Tue May 15, 2018 12:25 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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flicky1991
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby flicky1991 » Tue May 15, 2018 12:24 pm UTC

Hmm...

Post here if you would be interested in doing another round.

  1. flicky1991
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Soupspoon
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby Soupspoon » Tue May 15, 2018 12:43 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:Hmm...

Post here if you would be interested in doing another round.

  1. flicky1991 (to try to win by playing the odds)
  2. Soupspoon (to try to win against the odds)


:P

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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby somitomi » Tue May 15, 2018 2:43 pm UTC

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Did we just reach a 1000 posts in two weeks?
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby Soupspoon » Tue May 15, 2018 2:47 pm UTC

Next time, N=rnd(1…1000000)?

:mrgreen:

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Sabrar
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby Sabrar » Tue May 15, 2018 3:58 pm UTC

Crossover Mafia reached 1300 posts in two weeks (actually ten days as there was a break between D1 and D2). Clearly the solution is to organize a forum-wide Mafia game and we'll hit that million posts in no time. :D

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flicky1991
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby flicky1991 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:17 pm UTC

If we do it in the Count to a Million thread, we'll kill two birds with one thread. :P
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby emlightened » Tue May 15, 2018 6:25 pm UTC

You mean, we could declare a winner, selected at random, for every 1000 posts in c21kk? Sounds good.

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flicky1991
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby flicky1991 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:29 pm UTC

I meant declare an overall winner when we hit a 1000000, to give people more incentive to post in there. :P
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threetwoone
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby threetwoone » Tue May 15, 2018 10:37 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:
flicky1991 wrote:Hmm...

Post here if you would be interested in doing another round.

  1. flicky1991 (to try to win by playing the odds)
  2. Soupspoon (to try to win against the odds)
  3. threetwoone (to try and win by making interesting variants)


:P
On another note: If there's a limit on how high we can go, then what's the whole point of MNiB?
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heuristically_alone
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby heuristically_alone » Tue May 15, 2018 11:12 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:I meant declare an overall winner when we hit a 1000000, to give people more incentive to post in there. :P

And you can be in charge of it so that you cant win. More incentive for others to try.
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PsiSquared
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Re: Post number N wins 2: This time it's actually impossible for flicky to win

Postby PsiSquared » Wed May 16, 2018 5:59 pm UTC

On another note: If there's a limit on how high we can go, then what's the whole point of MNiB?


The answer for this has three parts:

(1) The realm below the "uncomputable limit" is - in itself - infinite. Moreover, there's no actual limit to the complexity of the things you can do without breaking the computability rule. Remember: every set of step-by-step rules, no matter how ingenious, are legal. So basically, it's a competition of who can find the most efficient rules.

(2) It has been proven that there's no ruleset that universally wins. No matter how clever your entry is, there is always room for significant improvement (this kinda follows from the "infinite" thing).

(3) MNiB games are not just about competition. They are also about having fun exploring the realm of big numbers. This is why there's usually a clause of "do not go too fast" in the game rules. The basic idea is to progress gradually, introducing no more than one new idea (at most) in every post.

In the more competitive versions, the challenge is simply to see who lasts the longest. In the version we're planning to play soon, the game is more of a collaborative exploration project (and these versions tend to progress abit more slowly).


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