Word Crescent

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Rosewinsall
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Rosewinsall » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:37 pm UTC

Let's do the same type of game again. The target word is pineapple.

I start with seed

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Re: Word Crescent

Postby flicky1991 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:00 pm UTC

Wow, well done, Diaphanous. I'll join the game, play excised, and then quit the game. I can't win now, but I'd love to see what this does for everyone else :wink:
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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:33 pm UTC

I play excited. I collect my Three Is A Magic Number token for being the third post of the round.
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Re: Word Crescent

Postby thecamoninja » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:03 am UTC

Huh, normally that token is considered detrimental to early play. I guess you must be going for a long-term strategy; hope you have a way to delay everyone else until you can use that thing!

I play plagiaristwhile simultaneously taking the action time travel, meaning at some point in the future I can copy someone's move and claim it as my own.
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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:12 am UTC

Burp.
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Dr. Diaphanous
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:16 am UTC

Pineapple, eh? A refreshing challenge!

I'll start with germplasm. That should give me a nice broad base to respond to most situations that might arise.
"God works in mysterious and breathtakingly cruel ways."

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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:20 am UTC

Proletariat
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Dr. Diaphanous
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:25 am UTC

Gentleman Farmer
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Vytron
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:32 am UTC

Exhilarating
Go! Go! You can do it username5243!
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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:37 am UTC

^ Can you even play that on the last day of the month? 'The rules are really vague on that point and seem to contradict themselves.

Either way, synthesizer should be a valid move.
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:42 am UTC

Isshoukenmei

And it wasn't the last day of the month by UTC.
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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:48 am UTC

So I guess the point is moot, then?

Having just played a word from the Nantucket category, I gain a Nyan point.
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:26 am UTC

I sue Pressed Bunson for implying the possibility that my last move was illegal!
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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:24 pm UTC

OBJECTION! It's not illegal to state that someone's move may be illegal (at least, not yet)! Besides, I wasn't sure on its legality myself, and I then pointed out that the whole thing was moot anyways.

For incorrectly penalizing me, you are now in Nidd.
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Vytron
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:51 am UTC

OVERRULED! It wasn't illegal to state that my move may be illegal, but I never penalized you!

You are penalized for incorrectly claiming I penalized you. Next move, you are forced to farkle.
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Pressed Bunson
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pressed Bunson » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:55 pm UTC

According to The Revised Miami Word Crescent Rulebook v. 1.0.1.6, suing another player counts as a penalty.

For incorrectly penalizing me twice, you are now in Nidd and you are forced to farkle as soon as you get out of Nidd.
Asmodieus wrote:Knock knock.
Whose there?
Your friends, we're staging an intervention.

black_hat_guy wrote:There once was an X from place B,
Who satisfied predicate P,
The X did thing A,
In a specified way,
Resulting in circumstance C.


Ncoppa jammo ja, funiculì, funiculà!

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Vytron
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:06 am UTC

Sustained

So I get out of Nidd*, and:

Farkle

Ha!

While Pressed Bunson's moves would have been really strong and impressive in a game of Mornington Crescent, this is Word Crescent, I'm not forced to stay in Nidd for three moves, and I don't get blocked. I just didn't make any progress (Sustained isn't closer to pineapple than Exhilarating), while Pressed Bunson got much closer to the goal.
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Rosewinsall
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Rosewinsall » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:16 am UTC

This is kind of cool. Can someone please explain different tokens?

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Re: Word Crescent

Postby thecamoninja » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:41 am UTC

I'd link you a a list of the various tokens there are in the game if I could find one, but google's coming up dry. It's a very rulebook-centric game, and not a lot has been uploaded yet (due mainly to the ridiculous copyright wars that tend to go on between rule publishers) so if you're looking to find out more about it, you're probably just gonna have to buy a manual - I recommend Wordsworth's Casual Crescent Handbook if you're new to the game. As for your question about tokens, short of typing up the whole list from one of my handbooks, which I'm not about to do, the best I can tell you is that I think there are (correct me if I'm wrong) about 93 categories that are generally used in every day play, though obviously that number's going to fluctuate a bit depending on what rules you're playing by. In really intense tournament play, I've seen people invoke rules that let them get up to something like 206, and they're able to win simply by virtue of their opponents not being able to keep track of all the tokens. That sort of strategy is professional-level stuff, though, so don't worry about it.

As for my word, I bounce off all the farklenidding going on and combine a portmanteaulogy with an aspirational shift to give me nargle. How do you like that?
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:07 am UTC

I think there are way too many tokens to be able to enumerate them all. There is a book recently published called "Word Crescent Tokens: Don't Jump From Word to Word Randomly". I got it as soon as this game started. It's 350 pages long and covers about 4000 tokens (not divided evenly, i.e. the Bastard Sword Token took 30 pages to explain).

The problem is these tokens are very specific on the target word that must be reached to win. The book mentions 200 "most common" target words and covers the most important tokens for them, but ironically, after the book was released it was more advantageous to avoid these target words, so they became the rarest ones, and so, most of the tokens became useless, as did the book.

So it doesn't mention target words like Praline, or Checkmate, or Eighty-three (the only numbers it covers are Zero and One, and words like Hundred or Thousand, which used to be "common" target words), or paradox or pineapple which means it has been a useless read.

Also, the 4000 tokens it mentions are a very small sample (less than 1%) of the total tokens in the game. For instance, it doesn't mention the Three Is A Magic Number token. So I had no idea it existed, and no clue how it works. You may need Pressed Bunson or thecamoninja to explain it (or from where they're getting their info).

But comparing the Tokens that it does have, it seems they are pretty much the same as the Mornington Crescent tokens, and they only vary on the details (i.e. while the Devil Token is Chaotic Evil Aligned in Word Crescent, in Mornington Crescent it's Lawful Evil Aligned, but the rest is the same.)

(Finally, note the nomenclature, don't confuse the Three Is A Magic Number token with the Three Is A Magic Number Token, or The Three Is A Magic Number token, or Three Is A Magic Number Token, or the plain The Three Is A Magic Number Token. Just because you see a token work one way in a game doesn't mean it'll always work the same.)
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby thecamoninja » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:35 am UTC

Ah, there Vytron is getting into advanced tokenology, which is really quite a fascinating subject in and of itself, but complex enough that I thought it best not to even get into it with regard to a curious beginner like Rose. The reason his estimates of the number of tokens are so many orders of magnitude off from mine is that he's counting each single possible token separately from the rest, whereas I was counting categories. So for instance, if a person has 2 Bastard Sword tokens (impossible in real play, I know, it's just an example), I would count both of those in the same token category, but technically in practice Bastard Sword Token #1 may act differently from Bastard Sword Token #2, and so Vytron counts them separately.

Furthermore, I would disagree with the (implied) assertion that most if not all tokens are specific to target words - many of them are related to the word's set, category, grouping, or even phylum, and so apply to many words - not just one. And yes, while it is true that every single word that could possibly be a target has some specific tokens associated with it, those are so particular and so rarely useful that I thought there was no point in even mentioning them.

And I'm going to stand firm in claiming that there really are some tokens that are universal and can be used regardless of the target (though of course what they do specifically will change). These were the main ones I was talking about included in the 93 in my previous post, and it remains true that you're unlikely to see more than that many types of token in play at once, with the 206 number I quoted being, I believe, the official tournament record for token types.

Finally, I agree with Vytron's comment regarding Mornington Crescent tokens - if you're at all familiar with them, which seems likely, as it's a far more popular game that W.C., they're certainly a good place to start if you want to learn.
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:09 am UTC

thecamoninja wrote:So for instance, if a person has 2 Bastard Sword tokens (impossible in real play, I know, it's just an example)


It's not impossible if the game uses Unbounded Rules. The book contains an example of such a game, where some player (the book doesn't mention any names, says, to protect the players' anonymity) was able to get a Bastard Sword Token on the very first turn, and then get a new Bastard Sword Token on every turn afterwards.

The game was really long (15 pages of the book are used for the depiction of this game, with really small print that requires a magnifying glass to read, and huge pages), and the player managed to set up a stunt (I won't spoil what in case people want to get the book and read it) where he was getting several Bastard Sword Tokens per turn, and they were raising exponentially.

But it didn't last long, on the 1'337'666th Bastard Sword Token they all betrayed him and stabbed him, so he lost on the spot. He even quit Word Crescent and even Mornington Crescent forever and disappeared into obscurity after the traumatic event.

The book doesn't mention how the game ended (and it's hard to follow because it never mentions what was the target word, with several players playing words and claiming they've won for reaching them, with others correcting that that's not the target word), but the lesson stands: use tokens at your own risk, because, while they may make you win, they may also make reaching the target word nigh impossible. They tend to be unstable and unpredictable in their behavior, like untamed beasts. Newbies are advised to ignore the existence of tokens while playing (see, I used a cat token in my first game and we were split into two realities where I won and lost simultaneously, maybe if I didn't use it I could have won in all realities).

In the end, Unbounded rules have been banned from Word Crescent after these events (and that's what makes such things impossible), but players can still break the rules and use Illegal Tokens to reach the target word, as long as they don't mind being called cheaters by other players, their win stands.

thecamoninja wrote:And yes, while it is true that every single word that could possibly be a target has some specific tokens associated with it, those are so particular and so rarely useful that I thought there was no point in even mentioning them.


"The problem is for every possible move on Word Crescent there's a matching Token, and several different versions of this token. For the word Cool there's the Cool Token, cool token (lower case), Cool Token (not to be confused with the move Cool Token, which has its own Cool Token Token), Kewl Token, etc., all related. All having specific uses depending on the target word, and while getting the Cool Token in some game just because you (sic) can may sound cool, it's probably going to sit in your pocket having no effect while other player reaches the target word.

This means that any specific token that you look at will be rarely useful and not worth mentioning.


(Quote directly from the book)

The book says all these 4000 tokens in it are from Category 1, so, if there's up to 205 categories of tokens and they all behave differently, you're probably right.

thecamoninja wrote:And I'm going to stand firm in claiming that there really are some tokens that are universal and can be used regardless of the target (though of course what they do specifically will change).


And the changes are tremendous. You can see the Wildcard Token doing many different things between games, and spectators may even believe its actions are random or made up. The explanation is, while most tokens are valid in most games (and universal), what they do in a specific game changes, and this could only be because of the target word (or this is the Author's speculation, tokens still seem a bit mysterious), though, indeed, some token effects are affected by the number of players, the names of the players, at what time the players move, but this is all implicit.
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:21 pm UTC

On the topic of tokens, would you class dog coins as tokens? They really are closer to tokens than to coins.

Anyway, all this token talk has inspired me:

I play sabre-rattling and initiate the dancing swords gambit on top.

I get a 7, giving me a Bastard Sword (transient) token. Checking the dancing swords table, this decays into two shanks and a froghammer. Obviously one of the shanks digs into me, but the others are stable.

Oh well, it could've gone worse.
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:40 am UTC

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:On the topic of tokens, would you class dog coins as tokens? They really are closer to tokens than to coins.


Not to mention the Dog Token Coin and the Dog Coin Token...

While I'm very familiar with Tokenology, my knowledge about Coinography is very limited. How do these work, do you buy stuff with them or something? And why would you, if you can get stuff for free by playing certain words anyway? I don't get it.

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:I get a 7, giving me a Bastard Sword (transient) token.


A what?? For Jupiter and all the Gods, my book doesn't mention that one, I'm asking for a refund right now.

BTW, I'm still recovering from Farkling (or is it Farkleing?), I never thought it would take this long...
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:34 am UTC

Vytron wrote:Not to mention the Dog Token Coin and the Dog Coin Token...


Aren't they the same thing (except when it comes to fungibility and chthonopetitistic plays)?

Vytron wrote:While I'm very familiar with Tokenology, my knowledge about Coinography is very limited. How do these work, do you buy stuff with them or something? And why would you, if you can get stuff for free by playing certain words anyway? I don't get it.


It's not as complicated as you make it sound. I mostly use coins as a powerup rather than for purchase. There are several items that are impossible or very hard to get to get without coins. There are even some words (e.g. luncheon) that you can't normally get without coins.

I'm only 1st dan in tokenology, and I've always thought there is not much point going beyond that. Is there really an advantage in dredging up half-forgotten tokens and tokenbonds?

Vytron wrote:A what?? For Jupiter and all the Gods, my book doesn't mention that one, I'm asking for a refund right now.


It's not a name-level unique token, it's just a normal Bastard Sword with an astable tokentag.
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:15 am UTC

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:Aren't they the same thing (except when it comes to fungibility and chthonopetitistic plays)?


Yes, but the game usually becomes full of fungibility and chthonopetitistic (thank god for copy paste) plays when a Dog Token appears.

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:I'm only 1st dan in tokenology, and I've always thought there is not much point going beyond that.


Well, I am a Tokenology Black Belt... in Mornington Crescent. THE point of going this far is because it's fun doing it, just like in chess it's fun to study chess books, openings, and endgames. Usually, it's more fruitful to just use that time to play more games, but people do it because it's a nice past time.

Revealing one is a Tokenology Black Belt would be a big mistake (negating all possible advantage of it, basically), but I'm not playing any Mornington Crescent game currently and for what I've read, it doesn't make any difference whatsoever in Word Crescent, and it could be disadvantageous because one is so used to MC Tokenology that WC Tokenology is hard to get used to.

Dr. Diaphanous wrote: Is there really an advantage in dredging up half-forgotten tokens and tokenbonds?


Yes. And the advantage is HUGE! But, so is the risk. It's curious but in all Crescent-like games gaining more knowledge about it is usually not useful (other than allowing fascinating discussion about it like this), since the most powerful moves that one plays allows other players to play even more powerful moves, sometimes the best strategy is to just play weak moves so powerful ones remain unavailable for everyone else.

It's for this reason that most people just don't plan ahead, improvising their play and moves as they go. They don't even analyze the current position of the game, and they're successful, it's even called Indy Ploy.

So in that sense, yes, there's no advantage. But this isn't about Risk/Reward, it's about Fun/Boredom, and I think these discussions make the game more fun, so I don't regret the years used learning about this stuff, even if it doesn't increase my winning chances in the sightless.

Dr. Diaphanous wrote:It's not a name-level unique token, it's just a normal Bastard Sword with an astable tokentag.


Ah.

I see.

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll pretend the astable tokentag works like in Mornignton Crescent (so, you just need to point the difference, if any.)

Finally, yippee! I can move! Though only to:

Farkle

This gives me a Puppy Coin.
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:24 pm UTC

Vytron wrote:I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll pretend the astable tokentag works like in Mornignton Crescent (so, you just need to point the difference, if any.)


The rules are the same, but the table for looking up the results is different, so different items are available. In MC I would have got two looks askance and a blueberry whistle, assuming my play and the previous two were all circle line.

I think I can play now? Isthmuses
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

Ah, ha HA! I got you to slip up! :D It looked as if I was just talking, didn't it? But you didn't underline astable when you quoted my post! Big mistake!

By the Misquoting Ruling I can use my Puppy Coin to play:

luncheon

Thanks for the idea! I also get a Bonus Item (quite like WC implementation of Items being identical to that of MC, I wonder why couldn't they do the same with tokens...)
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:15 pm UTC

What? No!
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:47 am UTC

Yes! It's pretty much over! I should have secured my victory in about Page 7 :twisted:
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Pjotr » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:42 am UTC

Sorry to butt in at this late hour, but this is the perfect opportunity to play life insurance. If you'd read the 3rd footnote on Bastard Sword tokens (page xiv of Appendix B), you could've seen this coming...
Every finger is touching and searching / Until your secrets come out,
In the dance, as it endlessly circles / I linger close to your mouth.
--
This sentence is as succinct as possible.

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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:20 am UTC

Pjotr wrote:you could've seen this coming...


No, I couldn't. The way new players can join at any point makes the game unpredictable!
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Rosewinsall » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:13 pm UTC

hmmmm I play murder

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Dr. Diaphanous
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:45 pm UTC

Murder? how could you? I call the police but, combined with my dug shank, I'm left with no option than voluntarily to play Blebbing.
"God works in mysterious and breathtakingly cruel ways."

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Rosewinsall
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Rosewinsall » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:53 pm UTC

I just looked up the definition for Blebbing and don't see how it relates to this.

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thecamoninja
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby thecamoninja » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:20 pm UTC

That specific play is kind of complex, but I can try to explain. Keep in mind, though, that there are several different routes Diaphanous could have taken to get there. I'm just explaining the one that seems most likely/straightforward to me.

Whatever word he played in that post had to be related to the word played, before him, of course, but it also has to be a valid play coming off of his previous word, Isthmuses. Now, the rules that govern what words are valid given a previously played word are complex and delve into different sets and circumstances and prohibitions that I won't get into here, but suffice to say that Blebbingwas among many, many other valid plays Diaphanous could have made.

Where it gets interesting is the police interaction, which normally wouldn't have had too much of an effect on whoever played it, but because a shank dug into Diaphanous back here which is an action-object linkage filed in the "crime" category) the police investigation has the same effect on him as it does on you, and similarly to how your options are severely limited during the inquest, so are Diaphanous's. I believe other options of his included cummingtonite, lionization, and Blinder.

But if you're more confused in why Blebbing was an option in the first place, it just has to do with how the words are categorized.
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Vytron
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Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:22 pm UTC

It doesn't need to be related, or make sense, all it needs is getting closer to the target word (unless it's an Acceleration Move where the player goes back to gain more speed for the Ramp), which makes my move clear:

Kawabonga (no exclamation mark)
Go! Go! You can do it username5243!
Cheers Marsh'n!

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Vytron
Posts: 432
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Location: The Outside. I use She/He/Her/His/Him as gender neutral pronouns :P

Re: Word Crescent

Postby Vytron » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:24 pm UTC

EBWOP: (Not to say it wasn't related, as thecamoninja pointed out)
Go! Go! You can do it username5243!
Cheers Marsh'n!

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THANKS KARHELL!! :)

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Dr. Diaphanous
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Dr. Diaphanous » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:15 am UTC

Rosewinsall wrote:I just looked up the definition for Blebbing and don't see how it relates to this.

Murder -> Blebbing: Well, murder causes the victim to die against their will. No-one likes that. If you have to die you want to do it in a controlled way, and for that you have to bleb.

Isthmuses -> Blebbing:
Spoiler:
Isthmus:
Image

Blebbing:
Image
Pretty similar I think :P
"God works in mysterious and breathtakingly cruel ways."

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Rosewinsall
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Re: Word Crescent

Postby Rosewinsall » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:08 am UTC

Looks like I have to play lam. damn police investigation.


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