How much of a math nerd are you?

For the discussion of math. Duh.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby 3.14159265... » Wed May 07, 2008 3:12 am UTC

I am disappointed at the lack of enthusiasm about my comment.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby antonfire » Wed May 07, 2008 3:15 am UTC

If it makes you feel better, I lol'd, I just couldn't think of anything to add.

1 -> math -> life -> boring crap -> 1
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Pathway » Wed May 07, 2008 4:59 am UTC

antonfire wrote:I did something very similar.

"Because the cardinality of the set of times between now and when I have to be in class is the same as that between a few minutes later and when I have to be in class, sleeping more can't actually make me any later. Back to sleep."


When reading that, I immediately noticed your implicit assumption that time is continuous, and was able to see how there exist easy potential counterexamples to your claim. After setting down that objection, I noticed that 'duration' as it is commonly conceived of should actually be expressed not in terms of the cardinality of a set, but in terms of a metric on the set of times. I then seriously considered diving into Wikipedia to formalize my admittedly imprecise notion of a metric. Imprecise, that is, because I pick up a lot of this stuff on the Internet--I've never actually had a class in which the idea of a 'metric' was so much as mentioned. I didn't do the previously mentioned Wikipedia-diving because I still had to read the rest of the thread and saw that, unfortunately, Robin S mentioned the assumption about the nature of time (which was my first point) the very next point.

That reminded me that my reading of the Internet has structure similar to that of a stack, played out in my tab bar. And now I have to restrain myself from explaining exactly how it's similar (first-in, first-out would be too concise), but ironically am not able to restrain myself from mentioning my lack of restraint.*

* or this lack of restraint1
1 or this one2
2 ...
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby mdornfe1 » Thu May 08, 2008 2:33 am UTC

The other day I found myself talking to my friend about the transitive property of love...I hate myself.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby 3.14159265... » Thu May 08, 2008 2:40 am UTC

mdornfe1 wrote:The other day I found myself talking to my friend about the transitive property of love...I hate myself.

I have done this quite often.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Likpok » Thu May 08, 2008 5:19 am UTC

mdornfe1 wrote:The other day I found myself talking to my friend about the transitive property of love...I hate myself.


Some of my friends were thinking of getting a house.

A lot, actually.

I proposed cutting down this number by drawing a relationship graph (edges indicate friendship), and trying to find the most complete subgraph of n people (n being however many fit in the house)
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby the tree » Thu May 08, 2008 10:24 am UTC

When I realise that I'm holding a pen and something that the pen will make marks on I immediately start doodling Koch Curves and Sierpiński Gaskets: my jeans are ruined.


I find it hilarious that Koch Curve looks like it could be pronounced Cock Curve. When ever I am sketching a graph of a function that could possibly look like some part of human anatomy, I try to emphasize this as much as possible without loosing accuracy.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby nurd.gurl » Thu May 08, 2008 10:49 pm UTC

i forgot to mention that i also do the proof for the quadratic formula. i would do more complicated stuff, but unfortunately i'm only in pre-calc (hs) and therefore haven't learned it. :( however... i do what i can :).

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Robin S » Thu May 08, 2008 11:02 pm UTC

This is disappointing. A true geek would not be restricted to learning things that were on the syllabus.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Zeltrix » Wed May 14, 2008 6:02 am UTC

*I divided one by zero and elegantly proved that it equals infinity (but it won't fit in the margin :D ).
*I started working on fractions in bases other then ten (I did binary and a little trinary today and I plan to start on hexadecimal and base-13 tomorrow).
*I'm developing a base-666 (which is demonic as well).
*I've figured out that the most fraction-friendly base that doesn't get out of hand is base-60 (the Babylonians were right).
*I've spent 5 days and 5 pages of paper using trigonometric functions on the proof 1+1=2.
*I've made a historical math joke while listing how nerdy I am.
*I attempted to make a two-dimensional counting system then realized nothing could be proved with it so I started dividing by zero.

P.S. the first one is completely true and I'll post it in a day or so when I get it written down and checked.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby auteur52 » Wed May 14, 2008 6:58 am UTC

Zeltrix wrote:*I divided one by zero and elegantly proved that it equals infinity (but it won't fit in the margin :D ).

[...]

P.S. the first one is completely true and I'll post it in a day or so when I get it written down and checked.


Sorry but that's impossible. Dividing by zero is undefined. If you meant that you proved that [imath]lim_{x\to 0} \frac{1}{x} = \infty[/imath], well....that's true.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Nimz » Wed May 14, 2008 8:52 am UTC

When I'm driving on a long trip, I'll look at the numbers in the license plates and try to factor them, somewhat in the vein of this. If I'm starting to get tired, this is a good way to keep myself awake. Light truck license plates are the best, since they have 5-digit numbers in them around here. There are lots of neat little tricks that can improve prime-checking speed.

When I was younger I saw how the reals were extended to complex numbers by performing an "illegal" operation, so I decided to see if I could perform another illegal operation to get a consistent extension of the complex numbers. Namely, I tried to see what could arise from treating 1/0 as a normal number. Then I noticed the problems inherent in such a treatment. Although I gave up on that idea, I learned something from the experience.

Since others have been using degrees as nerd cred, I will be finishing my Master's Degree in Mathematics in a few months.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Zeltrix » Wed May 14, 2008 4:44 pm UTC

auteur52 wrote:
Zeltrix wrote:*I divided one by zero and elegantly proved that it equals infinity (but it won't fit in the margin :D ).
[...]
P.S. the first one is completely true and I'll post it in a day or so when I get it written down and checked.

Sorry but that's impossible. Dividing by zero is undefined. If you meant that you proved that [imath]lim_{x\to 0} \frac{1}{x} = \infty[/imath], well....that's true.

Ahhh, but that's just what they want you to think. I just defined the undefined.
Oh, and the [imath]lim_{x\to 0} \frac{1}{x}[/imath] is undefined as well (it aproaches [imath]-\infty[/imath] from one end and [imath]\infty[/imath] from the other).
I proved it without the use of limits.
Behold, the unimaginable power of pi

[imath]\pi[/imath]i

I am the pessimistic optimist: the glass is half full...
Spoiler:
...but I'm still going to die of dehydration in this freaking desert.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby antonfire » Wed May 14, 2008 4:52 pm UTC

You didn't "prove" that it equals infinity. (Since, y'know, it doesn't.) At best, you made up your own system where it does. Which is fine too, as long as you're aware of all the problems with that system, of which there are many.
Jerry Bona wrote:The Axiom of Choice is obviously true; the Well Ordering Principle is obviously false; and who can tell about Zorn's Lemma?

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Zeltrix » Wed May 14, 2008 7:35 pm UTC

The only problem with it currently is that it assumes a constant infinity that's still "unreachable", mostly it exploits errors in previous statements.
Yeah, when I did try to make my own reality where 1/0=[imath]\infty[/imath] (without my theorem) I ended up with the new infinity equaling 2[imath]\infty[/imath].
Behold, the unimaginable power of pi

[imath]\pi[/imath]i

I am the pessimistic optimist: the glass is half full...
Spoiler:
...but I'm still going to die of dehydration in this freaking desert.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby antonfire » Wed May 14, 2008 8:44 pm UTC

By the way, for when you get around to posting it, this thread is the right place.
Jerry Bona wrote:The Axiom of Choice is obviously true; the Well Ordering Principle is obviously false; and who can tell about Zorn's Lemma?

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Zeltrix » Wed May 14, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

Done, you can go and tear it up for real now.
Behold, the unimaginable power of pi

[imath]\pi[/imath]i

I am the pessimistic optimist: the glass is half full...
Spoiler:
...but I'm still going to die of dehydration in this freaking desert.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Frimble » Thu May 15, 2008 2:47 pm UTC

I have decided to sit four maths exams surplus to those I need to go to university (to read maths). This includes one paper that only two people from my college have passed in the last decade. (AEA Maths, I will probably post some of the problems on this forum as my teachers don't seem keen on them)

Upon realising that 'A' level maths paper consistently required proofs that the sum of n consecutive squares of n were (or were not always) divisible by n. I proved (albeit not using any particularly rigorous notation) that this was the case if and only if (n-1)(2n-1)/6 is an integer.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Shakleton » Tue May 27, 2008 6:15 pm UTC

How much of a math-nerd am I?
Well, I just got myself a new T-Shirt. Printing in the front is "Mathe macht glücklich!"

"Mathe macht glücklich!" is German for something like "Math makes you happy!" :D

Talk about social suicide!
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby rawling » Tue May 27, 2008 8:57 pm UTC

Bassoon wrote:I regularly get math problems generated in my head. For example, I figured out that the 3D diagonal of a rectangular prism is Sqrt(a2+b2+c2) I also figured out that the height of an isosceles is Sqrt(.75) * a, where a is the length of the two sides that are equal.

The first one I can follow. The second one... um... :?

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Ended » Tue May 27, 2008 9:36 pm UTC

Shakleton wrote:Talk about social awesome!

Fix'd ;)

For my part: I read the xkcd maths forum on my "breaks" from doing maths work.
Generally I try to make myself do things I instinctively avoid, in case they are awesome.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby UnderRock » Tue May 27, 2008 11:46 pm UTC

I actually want to be in AP calc! And not for the AP credit, I want to learn it for the sake of learning it! I even studied a little calculus during my winter break (only really basic things, and I didn't get far: from the basics of limits to applications of basic derivatives). But I'll have to wait until next year (college) to take Calculus >.<
(Ok, so it's nothing compared to the 1337 math nerds here, but I'm getting there :D)

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Dobblesworth » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:39 pm UTC

I'm enough of a maths nerd to bother with the process of determining the end result of differentiation/integration on inverse trigonometric functions to get general result formats to adapt to the various f(x)'s or n's that may be applied somewhere in the formulae, with some help from Wikipedia on where to get cracking on filling in the gaps. Yeah, this was from the module our Further Maths set missed out on last year, in favour of doing more Complex Numbers in the other module, but what I need to do for Cambridge preparation for next year, and the only listed formulae in any booklets deal with how a basic 'x' term performs.

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Bsidney » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:09 am UTC

So, let's say a question is singular if it has only one possible correct answer. Example: "If testator one says 'exactly one of us seven is lying' and testator two says 'exactly two of us seven are lying' and ... and testator seven says 'exactly seven of us testators are lying,' then which of the seven testators is telling the truth?" has exactly one correct answer.

Now, is "Who are they who refer to themselves in the third person plural?" a singular question?

(Obvious question: "Is this a singular question?")

Am I a nerd?

Sid

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Frimble » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:06 pm UTC

With regard to people who refer to themselves in the third person plural. A correct but not very exciting answer would be that the British monarch does by tradition. A more amusing answer given the way the question is phrased would be:
"we do"
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Macbi » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:16 pm UTC

Bsidney wrote:Now, is "Who are they who refer to themselves in the third person plural?" a singular question?

(Obvious question: "Is this a singular question?")

Am I a nerd?

Sid

No, undefined, yes.

Frimble wrote:With regard to people who refer to themselves in the third person plural. A correct but not very exciting answer would be that the British monarch does by tradition. A more amusing answer given the way the question is phrased would be:
"we do"


You're getting firts and third person mixed up.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Frimble » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 pm UTC

True, I just realised and was about to delete that post.

If a member of a board (of judges or whatever) said 'the board does not accept responsibility for...' would that be the board referring to themselves in the third person plural?
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Ended » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:54 pm UTC

Bsidney wrote:"Is this a singular question?"

Yes.

Reasoning:

Call the question Q. Since Q is a yes/no question, we have three possible answers: 'yes', 'no', 'undefined'. This leads to seven possible sets of true answers:

Code: Select all

{yes}, {no}, {undefined}
{yes, no}, {yes, undefined}, {no, undefined}
{yes, no, undefined}


Call the true set of true answers A.

Suppose 'yes' is in A. Then Q is singular, so A = {yes}. This narrows the choices down to

Code: Select all

{yes}, {no}, {undefined}, {no, undefined}


Suppose 'no' is in A. Then Q is non-singular, so A != {no}. Suppose 'undefined' is in A. Then Q can have neither 'yes' nor 'no' as a true answer, so A = {undefined}. Choices are now

Code: Select all

{yes}, {undefined}


Suppose A = {undefined}. Then Q is singular, so 'yes' is in A. Contradiction.

Therefore A = {yes}.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby fortyseventeen » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:18 pm UTC

I draw regular pentagons using Euclid's overly complex golden-ratio method. Then I bring out huge sheets of drafting paper and

Code: Select all

10 extend edges to form star
20 circumscribe pentagon around star
30 goto 10


Frimble wrote:True, I just realised and was about to delete that post.

If a member of a board (of judges or whatever) said 'the board does not accept responsibility for...' would that be the board referring to themselves in the third person plural?


Well, not if you phrase it like that, but apparently there's more of a tendency to refer to organizations/committees/companies in the plural in the UK as opposed to the singular, corporal view predominant in the US.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Indon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:30 pm UTC

Man, and all I do is fiddle with a digit system I concieved based on the factorials (i.e. the base for each digit is the place of the digit +1, such that the series 1, 10, 100, 1000 in my system correspond to n! - fractions use 1/n!, and I suspect there are interesting properties to it).

That and the count on fingers in binary/trinary (trinary's painful though) sometimes.

I'm only a very low-level math nerd indeed...
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Bsidney » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

Ended's analysis of "Is this question singular?" is brilliant, and leads to the obvious next question, "Is this question non-singular?" The latter appears to be a paradox of the Epimenides type; it can only be answered incorrectly.

Cheers

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby antonfire » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:28 pm UTC

Indon wrote:Man, and all I do is fiddle with a digit system I concieved based on the factorials (i.e. the base for each digit is the place of the digit +1, such that the series 1, 10, 100, 1000 in my system correspond to n! - fractions use 1/n!, and I suspect there are interesting properties to it).

That and the count on fingers in binary/trinary (trinary's painful though) sometimes.

I'm only a very low-level math nerd indeed...
Writing n in this base is useful for computing the n'th permutation of some number of letters, in lexicographic order.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Indon » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:23 pm UTC

I was thinking more along the lines of, "All rational fractions can be described in a limited number of digits, and some irrational numbers could be described as repeating digits."

Don't ask me to prove either of those, I haven't the faintest clue how to begin.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby fenrir_darkwolf » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:04 pm UTC

More of a physics nerd, examples:
List of my recent wallpapers:
1. Hubble deep field
2. Andromeda Galaxy
3. Meissner Effect

I also currently have a Richard Feynman poem (exert in my sig) up above my desk.
"You're gonna have to learn everything anyway, so which is first is not essential."
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Bsidney » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:49 am UTC

Indon wrote:Man, and all I do is fiddle with a digit system I concieved based on the factorials (i.e. the base for each digit is the place of the digit +1, such that the series 1, 10, 100, 1000 in my system correspond to n! - fractions use 1/n!, and I suspect there are interesting properties to it).


I can't seem to see how that works. But it sounds interesting. Could you unpack it a bit?

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Torn Apart By Dingos » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:24 am UTC

Bsidney wrote:
Indon wrote:Man, and all I do is fiddle with a digit system I concieved based on the factorials (i.e. the base for each digit is the place of the digit +1, such that the series 1, 10, 100, 1000 in my system correspond to n! - fractions use 1/n!, and I suspect there are interesting properties to it).


I can't seem to see how that works. But it sounds interesting. Could you unpack it a bit?

I believe this is what he's referring to. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoradic

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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Token » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:16 am UTC

Indon wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of, "All rational fractions can be described in a limited number of digits, and some irrational numbers could be described as repeating digits."

Don't ask me to prove either of those, I haven't the faintest clue how to begin.

This is actually easy - continued fractions.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby antonfire » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:14 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure ey was talking about factoriadic representations.

Which is pretty easy too: a/b certainly won't stretch any longer than b digits. This means that any infinite sequence is irrational, in particular, an infinite repeating one.
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby Mathmagic » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:02 pm UTC

How would you explain numbers like n/3 (when n is not a multiple of 3) or n/9 (when n is not a multiple of 9), if
antonfire wrote:a/b certainly won't stretch any longer than b digits


?
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Re: How much of a math nerd are you?

Postby antonfire » Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:20 am UTC

A fraction in reduced form can be written in n digits if and only if its denominator is a factor on n!. Since b is a factor of b!, a/b can be written in b digits.

1/3=0*1/2+2*1/6=.02

1/9 =0*1/2+0*1/6+2*1/24+3*1/120+2*1/720=.00232


Maybe you didn't notice that we're not talking about decimal expansions.
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