Pi Day

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Pi Day

Postby mdyrud » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:03 am UTC

In case any of you didn't know, this Saturday (3-14) is Pi Day. At our school we have a teacher who goes all out. Because today was the last day of school before Pi Day, my Calc class went and sang pi related songs to the lower level math classes. He also brought in several different varieties of pie. Has anyone else ever celebrated this, or have plans to this year?

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Re: Pi Day

Postby darkspork » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:12 am UTC

Celebrate Pi Day by ordering an 8" pizza cut into 8 equal slices. Then, eat only the thinnest layer from the outside of the crust of one slice.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby polymer » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:22 am UTC

My teacher has a century club which he lets you into if you memorize 100 digits of pi. He gives pies if you can do it :]
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Re: Pi Day

Postby rtkwe » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:56 am UTC

This pi day is spent waiting for 1:59 when my MIT admission decision come online.
Spoiler:
i.e. 3.14159

Oh, and doing my senior exit project.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby ConMan » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:14 am UTC

You Americans* with your silly mm/dd/yyyy date formats. Here, where we use the infinitely more sensible dd/mm/yyyy format, celebrate Pi Day on July 22nd! And in the even more infinitely more sensible land of the yyyy/mm/dd format, plans should be in place for Pi Day on May 9th, 3141!

* And other odd people
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Re: Pi Day

Postby AllSaintsDay » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:20 am UTC

ConMan wrote:You Americans* with your silly mm/dd/yyyy date formats. Here, where we use the infinitely more sensible dd/mm/yyyy format, celebrate Pi Day on July 22nd! And in the even more infinitely more sensible land of the yyyy/mm/dd format, plans should be in place for Pi Day on May 9th, 3141!

* And other odd people


While I do agree with dd/mm (And also freak out other Murkans by using Celsius), I must defer to dinosaur comics for July 22nd:
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Luthen » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:54 am UTC

I move that we take a day from a 31 day long month to April, so that the rest of the world can celebrate 10pi day! The 31/4.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Token » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:20 pm UTC

I just celebrate π day on the 3rd of Dodecember.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby PhoenixRider » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:02 pm UTC

A friend of mine made a pretty lame Pi day joke on that day. Pretty lame joke.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby codyhotel » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:26 pm UTC

ConMan wrote:You Americans* with your silly mm/dd/yyyy date formats. Here, where we use the infinitely more sensible dd/mm/yyyy format, celebrate Pi Day on July 22nd! And in the even more infinitely more sensible land of the yyyy/mm/dd format, plans should be in place for Pi Day on May 9th, 3141!

* And other odd people


So, you obviously say days in the form of July 22nd, ie Month then Day, yet you think it should be written dd/mm/yyyy? Isn't that, you know, ridiculously moronic and hypocritical? If you say Month then Day, write it as mm/dd/yyyy.

I'm not trying to insult you, I honestly do not understand a how anyone can logically think dd/mm is good, and I would love to hear your reasons if you care to share.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:41 pm UTC

codyhotel wrote:
ConMan wrote:You Americans* with your silly mm/dd/yyyy date formats. Here, where we use the infinitely more sensible dd/mm/yyyy format, celebrate Pi Day on July 22nd! And in the even more infinitely more sensible land of the yyyy/mm/dd format, plans should be in place for Pi Day on May 9th, 3141!

* And other odd people

So, you obviously say days in the form of July 22nd, ie Month then Day, yet you think it should be written dd/mm/yyyy? Isn't that, you know, ridiculously moronic and hypocritical? If you say Month then Day, write it as mm/dd/yyyy.

I'm not trying to insult you, I honestly do not understand a how anyone can logically think dd/mm is good, and I would love to hear your reasons if you care to share.

Also, if yyyymmdd is the most sensible of all, and considering that regardless of format, people usually forgo the year, then in either that or mmddyyyy, March 14 is a better day than your bizarre 22/7 (which is only an approximation, anyway, while there is a point on March 14 when it's exact).
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Re: Pi Day

Postby AllSaintsDay » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:10 pm UTC

codyhotel wrote:
ConMan wrote:You Americans* with your silly mm/dd/yyyy date formats. Here, where we use the infinitely more sensible dd/mm/yyyy format, celebrate Pi Day on July 22nd! And in the even more infinitely more sensible land of the yyyy/mm/dd format, plans should be in place for Pi Day on May 9th, 3141!

* And other odd people


So, you obviously say days in the form of July 22nd, ie Month then Day, yet you think it should be written dd/mm/yyyy? Isn't that, you know, ridiculously moronic and hypocritical? If you say Month then Day, write it as mm/dd/yyyy.

I'm not trying to insult you, I honestly do not understand a how anyone can logically think dd/mm is good, and I would love to hear your reasons if you care to share.


What of those of us who would write today's date as 13 Mar 2009?

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Rhubarb » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:17 pm UTC

codyhotel wrote:So, you obviously say days in the form of July 22nd, ie Month then Day, yet you think it should be written dd/mm/yyyy? Isn't that, you know, ridiculously moronic and hypocritical? If you say Month then Day, write it as mm/dd/yyyy.

I'm not trying to insult you, I honestly do not understand a how anyone can logically think dd/mm is good, and I would love to hear your reasons if you care to share.


I think 'moronic and hypocritical' is a bit harsh. For starters I would usually say "the twenty second of June" in conversation rather than "June the twenty second". I think writing the name of the month then the day is different from writing the number of the month then the day as well, then you have to convert from month number to day when you say it. "22nd of the 7th" sounds better to me than "7-22" or however you would say it. Another reason is then the order you write them in reflects the order in which they change most often, i.e days tick over more frequently than months, which tick over more frequently than years. This is also why yyyy/mm/dd is most sensible, it is closest to normal numbers.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Yesila » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:23 pm UTC

codyhotel wrote: I honestly do not understand a how anyone can logically think dd/mm is good, and I would love to hear your reasons if you care to share.



Three units of measure years, months and days that have a relation, namely 1year > 1 month > 1 day. So when saying all three it seems sensible to either say the big one, then the middle one, then the little one OR the little one, the middle one, then the big one.

Putting the middle one first followed by either the small or the large, then the remaining one seems like an extremely arbitrary choice. Hence the preference of some people for a more ordered relation....

Spoiler:
Of course using the common English convention with commas that writing (clause A) (clause B) is the same as (clause B), (clause A). We see that the Americanized date of "March 14, 2009" is actually "2009 March 14" which is one of the more sensible ways to do things.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Tuinkabouter » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:24 pm UTC

codyhotel wrote:
ConMan wrote:You Americans* with your silly mm/dd/yyyy date formats. Here, where we use the infinitely more sensible dd/mm/yyyy format, celebrate Pi Day on July 22nd! And in the even more infinitely more sensible land of the yyyy/mm/dd format, plans should be in place for Pi Day on May 9th, 3141!

* And other odd people


So, you obviously say days in the form of July 22nd, ie Month then Day, yet you think it should be written dd/mm/yyyy? Isn't that, you know, ridiculously moronic and hypocritical? If you say Month then Day, write it as mm/dd/yyyy.

I'm not trying to insult you, I honestly do not understand a how anyone can logically think dd/mm is good, and I would love to hear your reasons if you care to share.


You write dd/mm/yyyy because the day is the most variable, and thereby the one most people would me curious about if it's about for example an event which will happen soon. If I see the expiration date on a milk carton, the day is for example the only thing I look at since the month is rather obvious.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Talith » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:35 pm UTC

Some people celebrate pi approximation day on the 21st (20th if leap year) of december (the 355th day of the year) at 1:13 because of the chinese approximation 355/113.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby mdyrud » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:15 pm UTC

Another interesting fact about tomorrow is that it will be Albert Einsteins 130th birthday, no matter which method you use to write the date.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Yakk » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:51 pm UTC

The traditional way of celebrating Pi day is to go to a place where people congregate, and at 1:59 in the afternoon give away a slice of pie.

Doing so at 1:59 am is also acceptable, but sometimes less practical.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:27 pm UTC

Yesila wrote:Putting the middle one first followed by either the small or the large, then the remaining one seems like an extremely arbitrary choice. Hence the preference of some people for a more ordered relation....

Do you also tell time as ss:mm:hh, then? Because if you think of time of day like everyone else, it's hhmmss, in which case putting it in front of any date format "doesn't make sense". And putting it after any but yyyy/mm/dd (or mm/dd for short) doesn't make sense, either.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby kernelpanic » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:38 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:March 14 is a better day than your bizarre 22/7 (which is only an approximation, anyway, while there is a point on March 14 when it's exact).

Only if you consider your smallest time period to be infinitely small. But it isn't. It's the Plank Time, and it is not infinitely small.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Mathmagic » Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:20 pm UTC

kernelpanic wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:March 14 is a better day than your bizarre 22/7 (which is only an approximation, anyway, while there is a point on March 14 when it's exact).

Only if you consider your smallest time period to be infinitely small. But it isn't. It's the Plank Time, and it is not infinitely small.

Maybe the smallest measurable time, but time itself is continuous (much like the number line).
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Re: Pi Day

Postby t0rajir0u » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:07 am UTC

Mathmagic wrote:time itself is continuous

That's not what the Planck time means. It's supposed to be the smallest physically meaningful unit of time. At times shorter than the Planck time and distances smaller than the Planck distance we lose the ability to say anything meaningful. There is no reason to actually suspect that either time or distance is truly continuous; continuous mathematics is much easier than discrete mathematics, and classical theories are continuous because they are approximations to more difficult discrete theories, not the other way around.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Mathmagic » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:32 am UTC

t0rajir0u wrote:
Mathmagic wrote:time itself is continuous

That's not what the Planck time means. It's supposed to be the smallest physically meaningful unit of time. At times shorter than the Planck time and distances smaller than the Planck distance we lose the ability to say anything meaningful.
How is that any different from what I said here:
Mathmagic wrote:Maybe the smallest measurable time

---
t0rajir0u wrote:There is no reason to actually suspect that either time or distance is truly continuous; continuous mathematics is much easier than discrete mathematics, and classical theories are continuous because they are approximations to more difficult discrete theories, not the other way around.
Care to elaborate on this? I'm not exactly sure where you're getting these ideas from.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby ashgray » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:01 am UTC

Happy (1 minute late EST) Pi Day!
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Re: Pi Day

Postby t0rajir0u » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:16 am UTC

Mathmagic wrote:How is that any different from what I said here:
Mathmagic wrote:Maybe the smallest measurable time

Your phrasing contains the hidden assumption that there is an "extra" degree of accuracy at which the real world actually runs that is not detectable by instruments. What I'm trying to get across is that, as far as our physical theories are concerned, there is not and cannot meaningfully be any extra degree of accuracy beyond the Planck scale regardless of the quality of our instruments (Heisenberg uncertainty and so forth).

Mathmagic wrote:
t0rajir0u wrote:There is no reason to actually suspect that either time or distance is truly continuous; continuous mathematics is much easier than discrete mathematics, and classical theories are continuous because they are approximations to more difficult discrete theories, not the other way around.
Care to elaborate on this? I'm not exactly sure where you're getting these ideas from.

Fluid mechanics is a great example. The major assumption of fluid mechanics is that fluids behave in a certain sufficiently continuous way that clearly can't hold on the level of molecules: a fluid is composed of discrete particles like any other substance, but it's easier to assume that the behavior of these particles is homogeneous and to model a discrete system with a continuous one.

Ask yourself where you're getting your ideas from. What reason do you have to suspect that time or distance are continuous other than that the classical physical theories you've been taught make that assumption? Loop quantum gravity is a perfectly respectable physical theory in which both space and time are fully quantized.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Pit » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:04 am UTC

My Spring Break starts with Pi Day.

So this morning, the first song I listened to was Marisa Stole The Precious 3.14.

And I will be making a Pi.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Ended » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:59 pm UTC

I think I've timed this right...
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Mathmagic » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:25 pm UTC

t0rajir0u wrote:
Mathmagic wrote:How is that any different from what I said here:
Mathmagic wrote:Maybe the smallest measurable time

Your phrasing contains the hidden assumption that there is an "extra" degree of accuracy at which the real world actually runs that is not detectable by instruments. What I'm trying to get across is that, as far as our physical theories are concerned, there is not and cannot meaningfully be any extra degree of accuracy beyond the Planck scale regardless of the quality of our instruments (Heisenberg uncertainty and so forth).
(Emphasis mine)
I'm not talking about our physical theories. I'm talking about reality.

t0rajir0u wrote:
Mathmagic wrote:
t0rajir0u wrote:There is no reason to actually suspect that either time or distance is truly continuous; continuous mathematics is much easier than discrete mathematics, and classical theories are continuous because they are approximations to more difficult discrete theories, not the other way around.
Care to elaborate on this? I'm not exactly sure where you're getting these ideas from.

Fluid mechanics is a great example. The major assumption of fluid mechanics is that fluids behave in a certain sufficiently continuous way that clearly can't hold on the level of molecules: a fluid is composed of discrete particles like any other substance, but it's easier to assume that the behavior of these particles is homogeneous and to model a discrete system with a continuous one.

When did I start talking about the continuity of fluids? I think it's pretty obvious that fluids are (not continuous) in the way they are modeled. I'm talking about TIME, and time alone. All your arguments so far have been straw man arguments.

t0rajir0u wrote:Ask yourself where you're getting your ideas from. What reason do you have to suspect that time or distance are continuous other than that the classical physical theories you've been taught make that assumption? Loop quantum gravity is a perfectly respectable physical theory in which both space and time are fully quantized.

Again, I'm not talking about theories. You give other theories that assume a quantized time system as counter-evidence to your assumption that I see the passing of time as continuous because of "theories [I've] been taught". Unfortunately for you, my reality isn't defined by Newtonian mechanics, so LQG isn't very effective in making your point.

I think this is heading toward a philosophical discussion, and we all know how those turn out around these parts.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:06 pm UTC

Mathmagic wrote:I'm not talking about our physical theories. I'm talking about reality.

Except, the only way we have to talk about physical reality is through our theories, since we don't have anything else to go on. And according to all currently acceptable theories, there is no way to measure differences smaller than the Planck time. And "no way to measure" means "no way for any interaction to occur that would be different if one event making up the interaction differed by less than that amount of time".

And if there is no way for a "difference" to manifest itself, you're asking us to accept a rather humongous assumption that there's nonetheless some kind of difference there to begin with.

According to our theories, in other words, which are our current best understanding of the universe, saying two events happened at distinct times less than a Planck time apart is as meaningless a statement as claiming there's an invisible pink dragon in your garage that doesn't interact physically with the universe.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby paragon12321 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:32 pm UTC

Happy pi/SAT day! I had to be at my school for my tests; I woke up at 7:50. Thank god I'm close to my school.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby t0rajir0u » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:53 pm UTC

Mathmagic wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that fluids are not continuous in the way they are modeled.

Wikipedia wrote:Fluid mechanics is the study of how fluids move and the forces on them. (Fluids include liquids and gases.) Fluid mechanics can be divided into fluid statics, the study of fluids at rest, and fluid dynamics, the study of fluids in motion. It is a branch of continuum mechanics, a subject which models matter without using the information that it is made out of atoms.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Mathmagic » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:09 am UTC

t0rajir0u wrote:
Mathmagic wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that fluids are not continuous in the way they are modeled.

Wikipedia wrote:Fluid mechanics is the study of how fluids move and the forces on them. (Fluids include liquids and gases.) Fluid mechanics can be divided into fluid statics, the study of fluids at rest, and fluid dynamics, the study of fluids in motion. It is a branch of continuum mechanics, a subject which models matter without using the information that it is made out of atoms.
Sorry, I should have parsed that better. It should have said:
I think it's pretty obvious that fluids are (not continuous) in the way they are modeled.


Fix'd in original post.

EDIT:

@gmalivuk

You make a compelling argument, and I guess it's just slightly counter-intuitive to think of time as discrete and quantized instead of a continuous spacetime.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Yakk » Sun Mar 15, 2009 1:21 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:According to our theories, in other words, which are our current best understanding of the universe, saying two events happened at distinct times less than a Planck time apart is as meaningless a statement as claiming there's an invisible pink dragon in your garage that doesn't interact physically with the universe.
And his name is Bob.

But regardless, the problem with going as deep down the rabbit hole as Planck time is that we don't have instruments that measure things that could talk about that level of accuracy. The limitations of our instruments are a much larger problem, and the levels of approximation out theories have been tested at are way way way way way way way way above the Planck time threshold.

What is worse is that our current theories are inconsistent in many ways, and produce NaN and zip predictions on a huge swath of 'less extreme' situations than Planck time. So saying 'if our current theories are consistent, then we cannot measure things down to Planck time' runs into the problem that we know our current theories are inconsistent at less remote situations than Planck time.

There are attempts to generate theories that are consistent, and don't throw out NaN's. But they aren't yet on solid ground (as it is hard to approach, experimentally, the NaN situations with enough accuracy to determine if which of the myriad of models we are throwing out are the right one).

And meanwhile, we have models of reality that create our universe as a hologram on the surface of the light-cone since the big bang, which generates Planck time and space areas that are ridiculously huger than traditional Planck time. (And, as are most unconfirmed scientific postulates, probably not going to pan out, but still...)

On the other hand, blindly asserting that time is continuous is as bad as blindly asserting that Planck time must be the granularity of time. Distinguishing between those two statements is beyond the ability of modern science and technology, so the argument is one of philosophy not science.

And speaking of quantization, I managed to get the last lemon meringue pie at the swiss pasteries at Billings Bridge, and we had home made pizza pie for dinner. :) Sadly, Pi day was on a weekend, so I couldn't bring pie to my coworkers this year.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:26 am UTC

Mathmagic wrote:I guess it's just slightly counter-intuitive

Well, welcome to modern physics.
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Re: Pi Day

Postby mdyrud » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:22 am UTC

HAPPY PI DAY EVERYONE! Anyone have awesome plans for celebrating this joyous occasion this year? The math department at my school gives out free pie all day, so I am definitely looking forward to that. Also, I am even blessed with the honor of a Linear Algebra exam on this most blessed of days.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Arariel » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:18 am UTC

Bah, everyone knows the more accurate approximation of Pi Day is on 22 July. About 21% more accurate.

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Re: Pi Day

Postby Kurushimi » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:24 am UTC

Today is also the day MIT releases its admissions decisions. You see, they release it on the 3rd month, on the 14th day, and this is going to be class of (20)15, and they'll release it a 9:26. 3.1415926. : )

I didn't apply because I was already accepted to a good university (Washington and Lee) with a full ride scholarship. But a few of my will seat eagerly by their desktops, refreshing their e-mail inboxes frequently today.

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mdyrud
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:34 pm UTC

Re: Pi Day

Postby mdyrud » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:17 pm UTC

Yeah, I know how that goes. Luckily, MIT was a dream school that I didn't anticipate getting into, otherwise I would have been very disappointed last year on my birthday. I do think that is one of the most awesome ways to announce admissions decisions though.

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Yakk
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Re: Pi Day

Postby Yakk » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:03 pm UTC

I am giving away Lemon meringue today. Num.

(I like cold pies, because they don't require heating up.)

Adam
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

IIAOPSW
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:52 am UTC

Re: Pi Day

Postby IIAOPSW » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

So when is Pi day on the French Republican Calendar?

anyone?






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