Moderators: gmalivuk, Prelates, Moderators General
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:If it can't be done in an 80x24 terminal, it's not worth doing
cjmcjmcjmcjm wrote:If it can't be done in an 80x24 terminal, it's not worth doing
rudi wrote:okay, thanks, and too all of you: I will try and write some human readable paper about this (because now it's just very chaotic, probably most wouldnt understand it since it is in c++ code) and then I will come back and post it so you can read it and come with suggestions, error-corrections and the like.
rudi wrote:[Edit]: another thing (which i forgot) that i formally was going to ask this time, was if someone knows about a good application for windows that can be used to write math symbols and text, draw things like grids, figures and so on to include in an article for example
rudi wrote:OverBored:
your question is based on what you define being zero or one in your rule 30 pattern. black and white has two different solutions, you need to specify which one it is. a sequence of 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1's had previously a sequence of ...0,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1.... (because 1 would have generated infinite zeros), and a sequence of zeroes would have had previous sequence of ...0,0,0,0,0,0,.... you ask me which one of these there is without explicitly tell me if your sequences are inifinite or not - has borders or not. if you go backwards with one black cell you see that there are infinite history yes. but when you know that you can use another dimension to reverse lets say a defined discrete latitce of cells with some random initial configuration, it i dont see the reason why one cannot say that it is?
Shadowfish wrote:It sounds like rudi has noticed that some subset of initial conditions yield reversible dynamics for some number of iterations, and that the evolution starting from these initial conditions can be reversed in a straightforward way. This leads to the questions:
1) Will the CA evolve from a reversible state to an irreversible one?
2) Can we specify what subset of initial conditions yields reversible dynamics?
3) Is this result well-known, or weaker than a well-known result?
As an outsider to the CA world, it seems like rudi's algorithm might be interesting if these questions can be answered.
Treatid basically wrote:widdout elephants deh be no starting points. deh be no ZFC.
gmalivuk wrote:Yes. And if wishes were horses, wishing wells would fill up very quickly with drowned horses.King Author wrote:If space (rather, distance) is an illusion, it'd be possible for one meta-me to experience both body's sensory inputs.
Rule 86 is a left-right mirror of Rule 30. This is not the same thing as a time-reversal.rudi wrote:if you look up that logic formula up in lets say wolfram alpha, then you will see that you get rule 86 as the rule to reverse the rule 30 pattern.
Treatid basically wrote:widdout elephants deh be no starting points. deh be no ZFC.
If you apply 86 to the following, you definitely don't get the same thing I started with and applied rule 30 to:rudi wrote:you cannot prove that it is not a time-reversal algorithm.
Treatid basically wrote:widdout elephants deh be no starting points. deh be no ZFC.
rudi wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Yes. And if wishes were horses, wishing wells would fill up very quickly with drowned horses.King Author wrote:If space (rather, distance) is an illusion, it'd be possible for one meta-me to experience both body's sensory inputs.
So it looks like you can't reverse the "background" (i.e. infinite strings of 0), nor can you reverse states with an infinite number of non-background cells (i.e. ones that aren't bordered by zeroes on both sides).rudi wrote:But yea, i get your point. but sequences like ...0000000... or ...1111111... doesnt make any sense at all. for a rule 30 to produce these sequences, if they do at all.. the background would be the final result. the background is not possible to reverse, because it contains just one 1/2 bit state. but complex patterns are possible to reverse.
Treatid basically wrote:widdout elephants deh be no starting points. deh be no ZFC.
So it looks like you can't reverse the "background" (i.e. infinite strings of 0), nor can you reverse states with an infinite number of non-background cells (i.e. ones that aren't bordered by zeroes on both sides).
It seems you can only reverse when you start with the assumptions that a'(j)=a(j)=0 for j>i, and a(i)=0. Otherwise how do you know where to start?
Like I said: you assume those must be zero. Which means you're not actually able to uniquely reverse all possible configurations.rudi wrote:a(i) and a(i+1) are t-1. but t-1 are initially background
Sorry, I meant infinite in both directions, since you have to pick a rightmost position to start with.rudi wrote:you can reverse infinite non-background cells. here is for example a history of a infinite cyclic system:
Treatid basically wrote:widdout elephants deh be no starting points. deh be no ZFC.
Like I said: you assume those must be zero. Which means you're not actually able to uniquely reverse all possible configurations.
Sorry, I meant infinite in both directions, since you have to pick a rightmost position to start with.
Users browsing this forum: Izawwlgood and 14 guests