Consequences of climate change

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Consequences of climate change

Postby p1t1o » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:34 am UTC

Help me out here:

I want to be able to state the disadvantages of uncontrolled anthropogenic CO2 production.

Im not here to debate whether or not it is happening.

There are a LOT of sources saying this will happen, that will happen, this wont happen etc. but I have a hard time judging which ones are reliable sources.

What are the major, most substantiated consequences of continued increase in atmospheric greenhouse gases? Just the bullet points, I dont need to be given full scientific analyses.

Pretend I am scientifically competent, open minded and dont know anything about what might change about the climate - why should I stop burning coal?

***
One camp says many species will become extinct due to rapid changes in the environment and habitats.
Another camp says "SO what? Extinctions occur all the time."
One camp says environmental changes will wreak havoc on global food production.
Another camp says increased atmospheric CO2 will *increase* global food production.
One camp says global population redistribution due to changes in climate will cause havoc.
Another camp says more of the planet will become habitable if the temperature rises.
One camp says the weather will become generally more unpredictable and severe.
Another camp says "So what? We have bad weather now, it wont get so bad."
etc.

***
So whilst I am firmly in the camp of "Even if the outcomes are not certain, it sure does seem like a good idea to limit the production of toxic gases, especially when they mess with the weather, which is eminently unpredictable and powerful. Probably shouldnt mess with it." Im still not sure what the most powerful points are when discussing whether or not we should care about anthropogenic climate change.

I know we should, but I'd like some points to have in my pocket that cant just be countered with the simple opposite or with "So what?".

Is it a case of we "should" reduce anthopogenic CO2 production, (to save the cuddly animals and preserve our precious status quo) or we "must"? (In order to preserve life, our species, our way-of-life and the maintainability of the habitat for our descendants)

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby speising » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:06 pm UTC

p1t1o wrote:One camp says many species will become extinct due to rapid changes in the environment and habitats.
Another camp says "SO what? Extinctions occur all the time."

Better hope we or species we depend on aren't among them. Also any change in flora and fauna has huge economic consequences. (Think of dying bees, or pests migrating north)
p1t1o wrote:One camp says environmental changes will wreak havoc on global food production.
Another camp says increased atmospheric CO2 will *increase* global food production.

IDK, but in any case it will *shift* food production. Would you prefer a green Greenland and a desert in the former corn belt or rather the status quo?
p1t1o wrote:One camp says global population redistribution due to changes in climate will cause havoc.
Another camp says more of the planet will become habitable if the temperature rises.

Would you prefer a cozy Greenland or a dry New York?
p1t1o wrote:One camp says the weather will become generally more unpredictable and severe.Another camp says "So what? We have bad weather now, it wont get so bad."

"it wont get so bad." is denial, not an argument.
More storms/floods/hurricanes/droughts mean more dead people.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Liri » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:39 pm UTC

speising wrote:
p1t1o wrote:One camp says the weather will become generally more unpredictable and severe.Another camp says "So what? We have bad weather now, it wont get so bad."

"it wont get so bad." is denial, not an argument.
More storms/floods/hurricanes/droughts mean more dead people.

Also, a lot of people don't realize just how far weather prediction has come in the past few decades, and how reliant we are on that, from knowing what clothes to pack for a trip to more consequential things like crop maintenance or hurricane response.

Another biggie is that sea levels *will* rise and there *are* people living in areas that will be affected and they aren't just people living on tiny little atolls way out in the Pacific.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Xanthir » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:55 pm UTC

Yeah, we forget so quickly that before weather satellites, we could predict weather, like, a day in advance. None of this 10-day advance forecast bullshit you get now.

And yeah, uh, most big cities in the world are port cities, and most of them have a big chunk of their land only slightly above sea level. Sea level rise = mass migration as cities become unlivable, changing weather patterns = mass starvation as food belts are destroyed (and it takes a lot of time to set up new ones as they develop in previously cold or dry areas). Climate change is gonna be the death of billions, no hyperbole.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby p1t1o » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:56 am UTC

So what Im hearing is:

Changes in food production will cause severe economic problems and there is a significant risk of mass starvations - efforts to solve this will take years and will not prevent initial severe consequences.
Changes in habitat will force mass migrations, with accompanying severe economic and health/survival problems.
Changes in weather are going to be more severe than anyone really gives credit for and will exacerbate/trigger the first two points.
And basically all of these points are vastly underestimated by everyone (but mostly by the deniers).

Xanthir wrote:Climate change is gonna be the death of billions, no hyperbole.


No offence, but thats a big shout, can anyone second that? Dry realism is what Im after.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby morriswalters » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:14 am UTC

Their is reason to believe in a 2 meter sea rise with good certainty in a 100 or so years. Which would inundate a substantial portion of the current coastal areas. This will be acerbated by an accompanying increases in population, from our current levels of about 7 billion to 10 billion by 2050. Major coastal cities are moving now to adapt since they are seeing the early effects.

Water stress is high now in many places and getting worse. A lot of major population areas are running short on water. California is investigating desalinization and operating at least one plant. They are used in the Middle East and Australia. The grain belt relies on well water in a lot of cases and aquifers are getting depleted forcing farmers to drive wells deeper and deeper.

Extreme weather events seem to be becoming more common. Heat waves, droughts, tornado's and so on. But a lot of that is currently buried in statistical noise. How much of it involves normal variability and how much of it is related to climate change is open to dispute. But by the time there is a degree of certainty if we haven't started adapting it could get very ugly.

And there is no indication that if populations start to move, assuming if things get as bad as predicted, that they will be welcomed. They don't seem to be now and it is hard to see that getting better over time. That raises the risk of war. Certainly the Pentagon takes that risk seriously.

Good luck with your talking points.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Sableagle » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:34 am UTC

Edit: ^^^ that ^^^.

That got posted while I was typing vvv this vvv.

Spoiler:
Time for a Gedankenfeckabaht or some such thing: imagien you write a computer programme that simulates a day-night cycle of temperatures and plots a graph on the screen. Add a year-long seasonal "wave" and a four-day-long "low pressure system passing through" wave and a 3-year El Niño / La Nina cycle and a 7-year solar cycle. You'll get a wave pattern that repeats every 21 years, right? Add a 10-year cycle and you'll get one that repeats every 210 years. Sure. Whatever. Add some randomisation. Add random chance of a high-pressure system taking over for a few days. Add random fluctuations in the strength of the EN/LN oscillation. Add tracking of records. Track the hottest, coldest, wettest, driest, windiest, stillest, sunniest and dullest day, week, month, quarter, spring, summer, autumn, winter and year. Mark on the timeline when a record is set. What'd you expect? Lots of records in the first year, to be sure, because the first day is the hottest and coldest day on record, the first summer the hottest and mildest, the first winter the coldest and mildest, but after 42 years you wouldn't expect to see many records being set, after 63 you'd expect fewer and so on. We're seeing more and more records being set. RAM leak, if it's a computer simulation, or Something Going Awry if it's the only real world we've got.

Some things to read, which I believe are related:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 51581.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 48006.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 42421.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 41096.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 54586.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34555220
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26820377
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-26826471
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26817593
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt ... 7f6a024c02
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-38174754
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-syria-us
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/ ... background
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... ians.syria
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/297164.stm

... and some places of the world to consider:
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=52.5529,0 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=53.8220,9 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=54.3646,1 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=30.4799,4 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=23.2316,9 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=20.2728,9 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=13.6830,1 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=10.1852,1 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=22.8205,1 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=35.1623,1 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=-20.2797, ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=-1.1398,3 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=29.8466,2 ... ype=hybrid
http://flood.firetree.net/?ll=49.1568,2 ... ype=hybrid

Bear in mind that a river valley coloured in blue on that map isn't just "this part will be wet." It's "this part will be SALTY and wet." You can't keep growing the same food on a field that's got salt water seeping up into it.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/featur ... adesh-hard

Blue-shaded river valley on the floodtree map is also river valley that's full of something more dense than river water, so if there's a flood in that river it can't drain that way.

http://www.voanews.com/a/flooding-kills ... 76895.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/v ... 24596.html
https://weather.com/en-GB/unitedkingdom ... ing-deadly
https://www.wsj.com/articles/heavy-floo ... 1481031272
http://www.africanews.com/2017/03/25/fl ... n-angola//
http://reliefweb.int/report/viet-nam/vi ... ral-region
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36702293
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/12/29 ... river-Boma
http://sf.curbed.com/maps/california-fl ... damage-map
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather ... -west.html
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rs.weather
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Unit ... dom_floods
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-asia-s ... KKCN12L02F
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22831308

Back to those record weather events. They're expected to get more frequent and more severe. That's more and more places looking less and less habitable. That means more and more people on the move, competing for places in more habitable areas. Can't blame them. Your child starves, your child drowns, your child is sold into slavery or you punch that shouty guy over there in the face and your child has a Western European child's future? Yeah, when it comes to it people try to survive, try to give their children a chance to survive and prosper and try, thanks to millennia of evolution, to have healthy great-grandchildren whether or not they'll ever see them. Are the people fleeing from drought, flood, salinity, desertification, conflict and so on going to be welcomed? By some, yes. Humans may not be wolves, but we can be friendly, sometimes.

Sometimes. Sometimes we're downright hostile to the perceived "other," usually when resources are scarce and the economy's under strain. When, in short, people perceive that there isn't enough for all the children to prosper and want to make sure that their own tribe's children do.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-04/ ... wall-death
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rder-fence
http://www.politico.eu/article/violence ... -maiziere/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39096833
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rance.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 04191.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... vels-in-uk
http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.770475

Also, obviously, some people are simply shit.

Are resources increasingly scarce? Well, it seems that way, viewed from here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 94177.html

Not just from here.

http://www.livescience.com/53400-crop-f ... warms.html
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/clim ... p-failure/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... americans/
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 71733.html

ImageEXTRAPOLATE.

Whether it'll kill 1 billion people, well, how many people did the 2003 invasion of Iraq kill? Do you count the deaths from the civil war that followed? Do you count the victims of the London and Madrid bombings? Do you blame the situation in Syria on the invasion of Iraq? Do you blame the invasion for 8000 people drowning in the Med, or for some fraction of those?

Oh, and there's malaria too. It's becoming resistant to everything (like Clostridium difficile, Streptococcus faecalis and Methycillin-resistant Staphylococcus Aureus), and it's spread by vector species that ...

Image

... apparently can breed here, in some cases. There's not much difference, climatically, between southern England now and southern France when that survey was done. What if the climate of southern England gets more like the climate of Turkey ...

Image

... and drug resistance means they need a new colour to indicate "unable to control malaria" and our wonderful Tories succeed in replacing universal healthcare with US-style private healthcare available only to the upper three quartiles of the income range and those anti-malarials get very expensive?
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Liri » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:38 pm UTC

Jesus H. Stones. No one is going to look at all fifty-seven - by my count - of those links you posted.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Sableagle » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:04 pm UTC

Yeah, I know, but some of 'em may get some views.

Usual response to any attempt to explain that "global warming" doesn't mean "it'll always be a nice day from now on" is, of course, "tl, dr, just want it to be warmer outside."

Still, what else is there to do when asked about it but try to answer or say "fuck nature" and drive a 4x4 through a nature reserve?
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby eran_rathan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:23 pm UTC

short answer on why we need to focus on climate change -

1. Possibility of either A. Runaway greenhouse effect (i.e. Venus situation) or B. triggering an ice age by massive meltwater pulse (i.e. Younger Dryas event/Lake Agassiz Melt causing global thermohaline circulation pattern disruption).

2. Methane clathrate gun hypothesis, causing the death of all life on earth except extremophiles/methane breathers.


Yes, these possibilities are far in the future (probably), but feedback loops are easiest to stop before they grow exponentially. If we start noticing the wide-scale effect of any of these situations, its already too late to do anything about it.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:43 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Still, what else is there to do when asked about it but try to answer or say "fuck nature" and drive a 4x4 through a nature reserve?

How about begin a conversation and suggest search terms? If I came up to you in-person and asked you this question, would you launch into an hour-long online search followed by 15 minutes of you lecturing me without giving me the opportunity to respond?
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Liri » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:47 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Yeah, I know, but some of 'em may get some views.

No, they won't, because we have no idea which ones might have some relevant value. If you're unable to synthesize information into a point that only takes a couple sentences to get across, you aren't helping or informing anyone.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:48 pm UTC

This is a self-explanatory link: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... evel-rise/

(Excepting the expected raw-link-abbreviation behaviour by the forum, but hover-over will still tell you.)

Another treatment: https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-o ... -sea-level
(Note the bit about the higher high tides being important, as lower altitudes above MSL are already currently 'inundated land' where few people live outside of stilted buildings, but immediately above high tide people have settled in ways that "no longer being above high tides" (or reasonably expected storm surges) is already problematic.

Obviously if you can move people elsewhere (the flooding inland of flooded-out internal migrants making the present day fears of flooding by immigrants almost inconsequential) without causing disruption, then it's not a problem. Good luck with that. Best to just deny that it'll happen, rather than think about what to do if it does become consistent reality, right..?

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:07 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Yeah, I know, but some of 'em may get some views.

No, they won't, because we have no idea which ones might have some relevant value. If you're unable to synthesize information into a point that only takes a couple sentences to get across, you aren't helping or informing anyone.
And because this is the Science subforum, I can say that in red:

If I can't reasonably guess about the specific content of a linked page from other information in the post, then it's a bad link and you should feel bad for having included it.

Sableagle, you in particular have been warned about this, more than once. Do it again and I'll simply remove your posting rights entirely.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Zamfir » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:24 pm UTC

The goto source for this is the ’workgroup 2' report of the IPCC. The IPCC has three workgroups, 1 for the physical climate science itself, 2 for consequences, 3 for prevention and mitigation. The workgroup 2 report( which comes out every few years) is close as you'll get to a scientific consensus on the consequences of climate change.

http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg2/mindex.shtml

There is a summary for policymakers as first start, then a technical summary, and finally lots of documentation .

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Sableagle » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:59 pm UTC

Well, ah 'pologize fer overestimatin' y'all. Won't let it happen 'gin.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:35 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Well, ah 'pologize fer overestimatin' y'all. Won't let it happen 'gin.

I'll hold you to that.
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:57 pm UTC

p1t1o wrote:One camp says many species will become extinct due to rapid changes in the environment and habitats.
Another camp says "SO what? Extinctions occur all the time."


Yes, extinctions happen all the time. The problem is that the rate of change of extinctions can change dramatically. The background rate of extinctions is estimated to be of order ~1 species/year. The current rate of extinction is ~1000 species/year (See here). So the problem is not that "species go extinct all the time", the problem is "the number of species that will go extinct THIS YEAR" is equal to the number of species that go extinct in a typical millennium". We're at risk of losing entire classes of species--the bulk of amphibians, in particular, could be wiped out by the 2200.

One camp says environmental changes will wreak havoc on global food production.
Another camp says increased atmospheric CO2 will *increase* global food production.


I think the 2007-2008 food crisis is instructive here. During 2007-2008, a variety of factors including increasing oil prices, droughts, population growth, price speculation, etc. caused food prices to jump between 100-200% in a one year period. This resulted in destabilization of dozens of impoverished countries and put millions at starvation risk. Although prices fell briefly following the 2008 recession, they've never fallen back to 2006 levels, and are actually above the peak of the crisis level at present. And there wasn't any factors involved that were even particularly severe. The global food supply is extremely, dangerously sensitive. Even if it is true that increased CO2 levels will create more arable land for us to use, that doesn't do any good if it destroys the arable land that we currently have, because the transition period is going to be extremely destabilizing. If a fairly minor shock to the food supply can send prices up 100% or more, what happens if it's a really major one?

One camp says global population redistribution due to changes in climate will cause havoc.
Another camp says more of the planet will become habitable if the temperature rises.


Pretty much the same as above. The fact that people might be able to live on Antarctica sometime in the next hundred years is of little gain to us if it means nobody can live in China over the same period. There's no easy way to move a billion-plus people out of the high risk areas into the newly habitable ones.

Generally, I think it's important to think about the scales at play here. It would be very difficult for us to do so much damage to the biosphere that the Earth could no longer support life. It is not so very difficult for us to do so much damage to the biosphere that the Earth can no longer support human life, or the lives of the species that we depend on. It is probably fairly easy for us to do so much damage to the biosphere that the Earth can no longer support the quality of life that a 21st Century person living in the Western world might expect. What is scary about climate change is not that the climate is changing (it always does), but that the rate of change is extraordinarily fast. If the rate of change exceeds our ability, or the biosphere's ability, to keep pace, then we could be faced with catastrophic consequences.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby speising » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:16 pm UTC

Also, the human population was never as large as it is now. A change that would have driven a few nomadic tribes to migrate to a new place will be absolutely disastrous to today's densely inhabited countries and their equally densely inhabited neighbours.

What happens when only a few million people endeavour to migrate from the middle east to europe can be seen live right now.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby quantropy » Tue May 23, 2017 11:05 am UTC

I'm a bit late to the party I know, but I thought I'd give some observations on why there is still so much disagreement about climate change, when the science is getting more and more certain:

A: Climate is not weather.
It's hard to predict weather more than a week or so in advance, due to nonlinearities etc. Climate models are much more predictable. Up until about 2010 there wasn't really enough data which meant substantial uncertainties in predictions, as there is for long range weather forecasts (although not really for the same reasons). This led to 2 responses.

1: One camp said that since we couldn't predict climate very well then what was the point of worrying about climate change.
2: The other camp said that the uncertainty meant that we could well be approaching a tipping point and should take action to substantially cut CO2 right away.

Around 2010 though there was enough data to limit the uncertainty in the models, which showed that it was highly likely that the temperature would continue to increase slowly. The conclusion was that if we can cut CO2 output by 60% by 2050 with further cuts after that then we would probably be OK.

B:Lukewarmers.
Climate change deniers seem to make claims in the hope that the reader won't know about the refutations of their claim that already exist. For those who disagree about whether the effects will be as bad as claimed (the so called 'Lukewarmers') the situation is less clear cut. People such as Bjorn Lomborg and Matt Ridley will enter into more protracted arguments and find the weak points in their opponents' position. Part of the problem is that their opponents are used to dealing with deniers, and lukewarmers need a different approach.

Overall I would say that the biggest problem is human inertia, firstly because it means people are still repeating the same arguments from 20 years ago and secondly because it means that even a gradual reduction in CO2 output is likely to be thwarted by our tendency to keep on burning fuels as we have done in the past.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:33 pm UTC

Recent example article:
A quarter of England’s rivers are at risk of running dry ... The driest October-to-March period for 20 years this year was followed by an extremely dry April and below average rainfall in May, and has left much of Britain with low river and groundwater levels and facing the possibility of drought. England hosts most of the world’s chalk streams but these are particularly vulnerable and half are now at risk of drying up, according to WWF.
The government’s official advisers, the Committee on Climate Change (CCC), warned in 2016 that water shortages were one of the most serious impacts of global warming in Britain, with even modest temperature rises leading to “severe” water shortages in England.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Sableagle
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Sableagle » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:32 pm UTC

..... and the opposite:

The Met Office themselves say:
[url=http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/releases/2017/high-risk-of-unprecedented-rainfall]New innovative research has found that for England and Wales there is a 1 in 3 chance of a new monthly rainfall record in at least one region each winter (Oct-Mar).

“The new Met Office supercomputer was used to simulate thousands of possible winters, some of them much more extreme than we’ve yet witnessed. This gave many more extreme events than have happened in the real world, helping us work out how severe things could get.”

The research has demonstrated that, even with the current climate, it is likely that there will be one or more monthly regional rainfall record events, in the coming decade.

It's not clear whether they mean regional rainfall records for 1750-2017 are likely to be broken in several regions over the next decade or that some regions are likely to break those records and then break the new records and even break those records over the next decade. Either way, it's not a very encouraging thought.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby SuicideJunkie » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:24 pm UTC

Drought is bad. Flooding is bad.
Getting your country hit by both in different places at the same time is worse.
One region of the country getting hit by both of them in sequence is even worse than that.

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Sableagle
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Re: Consequences of climate change

Postby Sableagle » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:33 pm UTC

Likewise extremes of heat and cold.

Spoiler:
Extreme heat shouldn't really come as a surprise after over forty years of "global warming" being a phrase in use. It's linked to higher suicide rates and that first article mentions Bangladesh, where they're already losing farmland to rising salinity, they've recently had trouble with high meltwater runoffs repositioning rivers and then the rivers drying up and Union Home Minister Rajnath Singh said {last year} the security of the more than 200-kilometre-long Indo-Bangladesh border was a priority for the BJP government and it will be completely sealed in next one and a half years. "We are committed to sealing the 223.7-km Indo-Bangladesh border and the process is on. It is expected to be completed within the next year and a half," Singh said addressing BJP workers here.

Extreme cold, meanwhile, is also linked to climate change and applies a squeeze from the other side, narrowing the "Goldilocks zone" of our own planet while more of it disappears under salt water. That's going to put some stress on food production and distribution, and our usual response to that is what? Cutting down more ancient forest? Feedback loop detected. I wonder how badly a single really harsh winter affects food production over the next several years. There must be thresholds where it starts killing off orchards or delays planting beyond a critical date or rots all the tubers or something.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.


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