Network on a trusting planet

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andykhang
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Network on a trusting planet

Postby andykhang » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:14 pm UTC

Supposedly, there's a planet, with the same amount of technology like our, thus the same network tech. But...because people on that planet trust each other, knowing that the other wouldn't even thinking of fooling the other (a dumbass planet, if you ask me), their network and internet doesn't have a shred of security of it. No firewall, no secret key, nothing but the barebone of protocol and server to ensure no miscommunication and error is involve. How fast would their network's bandwidth would be?

Also..Assuming we're alien arriving at that planet, and want to hack their network to extract information using our current tech, just how fast could we hack the planet?

Mutex
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Re: Network on a trusting planet

Postby Mutex » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:26 pm UTC

So, they use HTTP only? It would be as fast as this site. There just wouldn't be a password field when you log in. The lack of firewall wouldn't make a noticeable difference to the speed.

Also this forum might be a better place for this thread: viewforum.php?f=12
Or possibly: viewforum.php?f=59

andykhang
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Re: Network on a trusting planet

Postby andykhang » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:16 pm UTC

Yeah...figured that security wouldn't be particularly useful if it take too much of space. Also thank

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tomandlu
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Re: Network on a trusting planet

Postby tomandlu » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:08 pm UTC

As others have said, better off in the SF-science forum, but what the hell.

I work in health IT, and we need to provide hospitals with the ability to import data from other hospitals, as well as allowing patients to access their own data*.

For the former, the obstacle is not so much security as compatibility, and nor are the compatibility problems entirely predicated on trade secrets - it's just a hard problem**

For the latter, not having to worry about security would make a huge difference. However, it's worth pointing out that, although hostile actors are an issue, the more day-to-day problem is idiocy***. In your scenario, does no one do anything stupid? Because it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between hostility and idiocy.

Bottom line - your scenario would make some difference, but a trusting society would probably look very different from ours anyway, but not necessarily for reasons connected with IT (most laws and all courts would be redundant, and the tragedy of the commons wouldn't exist?).

* my speciality is renal IT, where we dealing with a long-term cohort of chronic patients
** specific values are not a problem; it's finding a rational way to encapsulate several time-series of site-specific data in a universable form that makes us cry
*** the soul unadulterated joy of my job is discovering new levels of "you did what?"
How can I think my way out of the problem when the problem is the way I think?

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Link
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Re: Network on a trusting planet

Postby Link » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:23 pm UTC

As others have said, the main security methods don't take up a whole lot of bandwidth; there's a much bigger overhead from reliability measures than from security measures. There's not going to be an order-of-magnitude difference, in any case. On the other hand, it is worth considering how much time and money we put into making things secure. If we put all of those resources into speed and reliability instead, we might well be a decade ahead in our technology.

As for hacking their network, the big issue is that things like the protocols and even written language wouldn't be known. Even the first steps of piecing together the line-level encoding and size of their bytes will take a while if it's different from what we use. If they compress their data, we have an even bigger problem. Any electronic alien communication is going to be hard for us to decipher unless they specifically tailor it to be easy to understand. I would imagine the easiest way to learn these things is to just interact with them person-to-person until we get a decent level of two-way communication going, and then ask them for the technical specifications of their computer systems. Once we actually understand their systems, hacking them is a piece of cake. Learning how they work in the first place is the real obstacle.

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Soupspoon
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Re: Network on a trusting planet

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:17 am UTC

One thing that might change in a trusting planetary network is the evolution of a completely borderless mesh network. Data charges aside1, the added flexibility of multipathing outwith traditional "go via your ISP, bounce around the top-level cloud, emerge via their ISP" method of making a connection to a device that might be half a world away, or just sitting in the pocket of the girl you:re travelling with on the train.

And think of the waste, even with 'local' access points for your respective ISP nodes (which might even share the means of inwards and outwards traffic everywhere that side of the nearest cellphone tower, yet still have to pass through a regional), that can be avoided by discovering a direct device-to-device connection (or passed through a chain of willing trackside/co-passenger carriers, if your party is in the far carriage. Perhaps bounced through household nodes to the town your contact is awaiting news of your train being delayed arriving it, or via vehicular nodes travelling (or stuck in a snarl-up) along the highway currently paralleling your current conveyance's track. Even the installation of micro-wifi-relays on every fourth street-light or other street furniture/trackside signage, could be a goodwill facility from the appropriate department of transport, where the mesh otherwise might encounter an unreliability of other mesh-nodes like the lack of water in a desert fringe. However ylu do it, though, sending information filtering (skittering, fragmented, highly latent but still suitable for certain communications with sufficient QoS modes in the relevent frame-handling!) clear across a conurbation might be an effective method that allows the hardline connections to the main backbone to stay freed up for traffic much more suited to that overkill.

And, because you trust everyone, the mesh-flow of datagrams can still be compressed for efficiency but do not require encryption pre-/post-/co-compressional to add to the necessary latency at either end.


The consequences of a 'cheat' introduced into to this mesh-of-trust is, I assume, the consequence the OP is looking for, but first of all we might (via the nature of the Mesh) still make it difficult for an Eve/Mallory/Sybil to take full advantage of the situation, just because of the logistics.


1 There could still be overhead assigned to 'ownership', trivially accounting for all packet origination with the inherent complete trust that this will not be spoofed, to be reported back to whoever deals with that sort of thing if we're not going completely socialist within the conceit of the Trusting Planet scenario.


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