How much is 1e340 j of energy?

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gd1
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How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby gd1 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:09 pm UTC

How much comparatively is 1e+340 joules of energy? Just wondering.
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby ucim » Sun May 27, 2018 10:53 pm UTC

The Tsar Bomba is the biggest nuclear bomb ever built. It was 50 megatons, and (thus) put out 209200000000000000 joules (2 x 1017 joules), but couldn't sustain the reaction for more than a fraction of a second. (It was enough). A watt is a joule per second, so the total power output of the bomb is considerably less impressive than its destructive force.

The sun's total (continuous) output is about 4x1026 watts.

A quasar's typical output is 1039 watts. (This figure varies by an astronomer's factor* of three) A galaxy's typical output is (astronomically) similar to that of a quasar.

The number you are asking about is 10301 times bigger. Imagine a typical galaxy. Now imagine it a googol times bigger in all three dimensions.

A googol isn't as big as Graham's number, or the xkcd number, but it's still pretty big. It's a 1 with 100 zeros after it. For comparison, the total number of stars in the observable universe is estimated to be about 1023. The total number of atoms in the universe comes to around 1080. This is still short of a googol by a factor of a sextillion or so.

So... imagine taking the power output of the entire Milky Way Galaxy. Imagine that every atom in the universe put out that much power. Do that a sextillion times over.

This is merely the cube root of the amount of power you are asking about. I have a suspicion that merely thinking about that much power will summon Cthulu.

Where did your number come from?

Jose
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby gd1 » Mon May 28, 2018 12:06 am UTC

ucim wrote:I have a suspicion that merely thinking about that much power will summon Cthulu.


Alright... interestingly, you're not far off.

ucim wrote:Where did your number come from?


The short answer: Very very back of the envelope calculations for a bad fanfiction I'm contemplating.

The longer answer:
http://fantasy-bestiary.wikia.com/wiki/Dream_Crawler (I wrote this too)

I plan to write am thinking about writing a bad fanfiction about one of these that falls under the "has additional abilities" category and travels to the following 4 "universes" in this order
Avatarverse (as in the last airbender one)
Portalverse (one of the testing environments in the alternate universes actually)
MLP-verse (how could I pass this up)
Potterverse

I named it Yoth-Azarai and it would stay in each of those universes for 100 years. It's imprint (the link to the wiki entry explains more) is a human male. The following calculations happened (and were off by 1 for my purposes as well as another math error actually...)
Firstly I rolled 9d10 and populated the numbers from the ones digit upwards. Then I rolled another d10 and if I got 6 or above (and all the other rolls had been "0") it would have been 2, otherwise it would be 1.

The number I arrived at for the base energy capacity of Yoth was 1,422,413,475 calories of initial energy

A 10% increase doubles roughly every 8 sleep cycles. A doubling increases the exponent in scientific notation by 1 every 4 cycles. 8*4=32

If Yoth slept 1 day out of every 10 days over the course of 300 years that would be:
365*100=36500*3=109500/10=10950 cycles
10950/32=342.1875 or roughly 340
I chopped off the 1.4 and made it 1e340

I forgot to convert calories to joules, but it's still roughly sort of around a similar amount.

Why I cared was because Yoth's additional ability would be to convert his far realm pseudonatural energy into other types of energy so long as Yoth makes physical contact with the energy to "learn about it" or his tentacles do (though the tentacles can make "physical contact" with aftereffects and other stuff within certain time frames (minimum 10 seconds and maximum varying) due to "bizarre geometry"). Also, Yoth could copy energy usages even if missing components (such as a wand or a body part) at a flat doubling of the energy requirement.

I was reading about Goku's ultra instinct form and wondered how much energy that would be. So, I figured I'd just get a rough comparison of how much 1e+340 joules is.

Note: It did occur to me that something that re-awakens in its previous position from a planet that rotates around a sun would likely be in outer space after 8 hours.

Bonus material: In case you were wondering sort of what it looks like...

Image

It's a sludge crawler model from warcraft 3. Just with no red parts on there or teeth or any definable face.
Last edited by gd1 on Mon May 28, 2018 2:02 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby ThirdParty » Mon May 28, 2018 1:05 am UTC

gd1 wrote:How much comparatively is 1e+340 joules of energy? Just wondering.

Okay, no problem. We just need some big numbers. Here is a page with some big numbers on it. Let's see...

The total amount of energy in the universe--if we liberated all of it in a giant matter-antimatter reaction--is about 1e70 joules. Call that "one universe" of energy.

Suppose that there are about as many universes as there are particles in the universe--that is, about 1e80 universes in the multiverse--for a total of 1e150 joules. Call that "one multiverse" of energy.

Suppose that God is about twice as old as the universe--i.e. 1e18 seconds old--and has created one multiverse per second for His entire existence, for a total of 1e168 joules. Call that "one god" of energy.

The total number of humans who have ever lived is about 1e11. Suppose that they all became, or will become, gods after death, outputting a total of 1e179 joules. Call that "one pantheon" of energy.

Remember the multiverse that contained 1e80 universes, each with 1e80 particles in it? Suppose that you had one pantheon for each particle in the multiverse. That would be a total of 1e339 joules.

1e340 joules is about ten times that much.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby Eebster the Great » Mon May 28, 2018 1:46 am UTC

It turns out that 340-digit numbers don't come up that often.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby ucim » Mon May 28, 2018 1:47 am UTC

gd1 wrote:Yoth's additional ability would be to convert his far realm pseudonatural energy into other types of energy so long as it makes physical contact with it
Aside from the question of just which "it" is which, what would it mean for an entity (such as Yoth) to come "transmit" his energy, when the energy of the entire universe he comes into contact with is essentially zero compared to xis?

At these numbers, numbers don't matter. Xe is like unto the sea.*

Jose
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby gd1 » Mon May 28, 2018 2:00 am UTC

ucim wrote:
gd1 wrote:Yoth's additional ability would be to convert his far realm pseudonatural energy into other types of energy so long as it makes physical contact with it
Aside from the question of just which "it" is which, what would it mean for an entity (such as Yoth) to come "transmit" his energy, when the energy of the entire universe he comes into contact with is essentially zero compared to xis?

At these numbers, numbers don't matter. Xe is like unto the sea.*

Jose
*The sea is big, and does what it wants.


heh... bad fanfiction (I was bored)

Also, with stuff like ultra instinct and the speed force I dunno :/

And even with stuff similar to eldritch abominations you have to make them at least somewhat incomprehensible and implacable.

EDIT: The "it" pointer issue has been refactored :D
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby p1t1o » Mon May 28, 2018 4:19 pm UTC

ucim wrote:The Tsar Bomba is the biggest nuclear bomb ever built. It was 50 megatons, and (thus) put out 209200000000000000 joules (2 x 1017 joules), but couldn't sustain the reaction for more than a fraction of a second. (It was enough). A watt is a joule per second, so the total power output of the bomb is considerably less impressive than its destructive force.

[/size]


I disagree on the impressiveness, since the power output of Tsar Bomba reached ~1% of the suns power output, for a few nanoseconds, but I still think that very impressive!

***
To put the number 1e340 into some (more) context:

There are approximately 1e80 protons and neutrons in the universe.
If you filled up the universe with protons and neutrons so that each one was "physically" touching its neighbour, ie: no more free space left in the universe (ignoring the fact that that much mass cannot exist and not collapse into a singularity), there would be approx 1e120 particles.

Now lets create 1 whole universe for every one of those protons and neutrons, and stack those up in the same way, so 1e120 universes each completely filled with elementary particles, now you have 1e240 particles all together.

Now lets do that all over again and replace every particle in every one of those 1e120 universes, each stacked shoulder to shoulder with 1e120 protons/neutrons and make another universe for every particle present, and fill THOSE shoulder to shoulder with protons and neutrons.

Now there are 1e360 particles.

1e340J literally makes no sense within our reality, not just within our universe.

Its kind of like saying "well, the more air I put into this balloon, the larger it gets, how big would it be if we put 450 trillion aircraft carriers in it?

The answer is, the size the ballon gets is no longer relevant because it likely stops being a balloon.

In other words, the answer is no longer connected to the question - it makes no sense to ask.

Thats not a dig at the OP, it does of course make sense to ponder interesting and strange things.

Very large numbers are not always absurdities though, but very large numbers of Joules, sometimes are.
For example, Graham's number (Googolplex is sooo 1995) is so large it makes 1e340 look like...well its very much larger, there are not enough words to explain how big it is other than the mathematical notation...

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby ucim » Mon May 28, 2018 4:51 pm UTC

p1t1o wrote:For example, Graham's number (Googolplex is sooo 1995) is so large it makes 1e340 look like...well its very much larger, there are not enough words to explain how big it is other than the mathematical notation...
You think that's big? How about a googleplex to the Graham's number power, factorial, plus one? Take that!

(Besides, I can write "Graham's number" on the back of a postage stamp. How big could it be?)

p1t1o wrote:Very large numbers are not always absurdities though, but very large numbers of Joules, sometimes are.
Very large numbers of {any measurement} are absurd... to the point that it's hard to conceive of a unit of measurement small enough for them not to be. There is probably some plank minimum number of joules below which the concept stops making sense (in our known universe), and even if that were the unit of measurement, it wouldn't make a dent in the exponent of the very large number under consideration. The number is so big that it doesn't matter if you measure in miles, light years, or nanometers; it's still absurd.

To that, I wonder what the largest non-absurd (in a physical sense) number is. Hmmm.... the number of quantum states in the universe? (Well, quantum mechanics is absurd in itself!)

Jose
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby Tub » Mon May 28, 2018 6:48 pm UTC

ucim wrote:(Besides, I can write "Graham's number" on the back of a postage stamp. How big could it be?)

Roughly twice as big as 1e340, because I can write 1e340 on the back of that stamp twice. :roll:

p1t1o wrote:There is probably some plank minimum number of joules below which the concept stops making sense (in our known universe), and even if that were the unit of measurement, it wouldn't make a dent in the exponent of the very large number under consideration.

The planck energy is a lot larger than 1 Joule, but it's not defined as the lowest possible quantity.

The first google result tells me that a photon's energy depends on its wavelength, and a photon with a wavelength of the observable universe has as little as ~10^52 J. Even in that unit, the energy of the universe (1e70 J according to ThirdParty above) is just ~1e122.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby Soupspoon » Mon May 28, 2018 9:58 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:It turns out that 340-digit numbers don't come up that often.

You've now said that exact phrase at least
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 time.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby Eebster the Great » Tue May 29, 2018 4:05 am UTC

Probably also at most.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby p1t1o » Tue May 29, 2018 10:28 am UTC

ucim wrote:
p1t1o wrote:For example, Graham's number (Googolplex is sooo 1995) is so large it makes 1e340 look like...well its very much larger, there are not enough words to explain how big it is other than the mathematical notation...
You think that's big? How about a googleplex to the Graham's number power, factorial, plus one? Take that!

(Besides, I can write "Graham's number" on the back of a postage stamp. How big could it be?)

p1t1o wrote:Very large numbers are not always absurdities though, but very large numbers of Joules, sometimes are.
Very large numbers of {any measurement} are absurd... to the point that it's hard to conceive of a unit of measurement small enough for them not to be. There is probably some plank minimum number of joules below which the concept stops making sense (in our known universe), and even if that were the unit of measurement, it wouldn't make a dent in the exponent of the very large number under consideration. The number is so big that it doesn't matter if you measure in miles, light years, or nanometers; it's still absurd.

To that, I wonder what the largest non-absurd (in a physical sense) number is. Hmmm.... the number of quantum states in the universe? (Well, quantum mechanics is absurd in itself!)

Jose


What I was thinking is that there are some very large numbers that are useful, or at least used, in various types of mathematical explorations, ponderings or theories, perhaps used in things like cryptography (eg: very large primes) or other esoteric fields, even if its just exploring the nature of maths and large numbers.

But absurd numbers of things (such as joules) are often...well, absurd.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby doogly » Tue May 29, 2018 1:13 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Hmmm.... the number of quantum states in the universe? (Well, quantum mechanics is absurd in itself!)

It's just 1 though!
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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed May 30, 2018 7:45 am UTC

p1t1o wrote:What I was thinking is that there are some very large numbers that are useful, or at least used, in various types of mathematical explorations, ponderings or theories, perhaps used in things like cryptography (eg: very large primes) or other esoteric fields, even if its just exploring the nature of maths and large numbers.

But absurd numbers of things (such as joules) are often...well, absurd.

There is no special property of large primes except that they are large and rare. Cryptography requires the use of large numbers because we have computers which are capable of many operations per second. Prior to the invention of computers, there was no use for large numbers in cryptography.

If you want examples of real cases of extremely large numbers arising naturally in pure math, they do exist. Graham's number has already been mentioned, a number that came up in the study of Ramsey Theory, which generates many extremely large integers. Other branches of discrete mathematics like the theories of finite graphs and groups can occasionally produce stupendously huge numbers organically in their study. 10340 is real big, but it is not unreachably big.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby jaap » Wed May 30, 2018 9:46 am UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:
p1t1o wrote:What I was thinking is that there are some very large numbers that are useful, or at least used, in various types of mathematical explorations, ponderings or theories, perhaps used in things like cryptography (eg: very large primes) or other esoteric fields, even if its just exploring the nature of maths and large numbers.

But absurd numbers of things (such as joules) are often...well, absurd.


If you want examples of real cases of extremely large numbers arising naturally in pure math, they do exist. Graham's number has already been mentioned, a number that came up in the study of Ramsey Theory, which generates many extremely large integers. Other branches of discrete mathematics like the theories of finite graphs and groups can occasionally produce stupendously huge numbers organically in their study. 10340 is real big, but it is not unreachably big.


You easily get numbers as big as 10340 in combinatorics. To give a real world example - if you shuffle 4 identical decks of cards together, there are about 4.1*10321 possible orders the cards can end up in. Add a 5th deck and it rises to 2.9*10408. Of course permutations are not physical things, but I think this is one of the easiest to understand examples where such numbers arise. This doesn't compare to the size of Graham's number, which is also rather special as it was created specifically to serve as an upper bound in a proof unlike my rather arbitrary example.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby p1t1o » Wed May 30, 2018 2:10 pm UTC

So if you did bring 1e340J into being somehow, how would you describe the predicted effects?

Is it a large small enough number that "collapse to a singularity" or "complete destruction of the universe" are reasonable choices?

Or is the number so large as to make even those simplistic extrapolations unreasonable?

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby ThirdParty » Wed May 30, 2018 4:05 pm UTC

p1t1o wrote:So if you did bring 1e340J into being somehow, how would you describe the predicted effects?

Is it a large small enough number that "collapse to a singularity" or "complete destruction of the universe" are reasonable choices?

Or is the number so large as to make even those simplistic extrapolations unreasonable?

Well, creating a black hole with the radius of the universe requires about 3e70 joules, of which the universe already possesses about 1e70 joules. So 2e70 joules would be sufficient to collapse the universe into a singularity. 1e340 joules is substantially larger than that.

We're not sure exactly how hard it is to create a Big Bang, but let's suppose that 1e70 joules per planck volume is enough to do the trick. The universe contains about 1e185 planck volumes. So 1e255 joules would be sufficient to create new Big Bangs everywhere. 1e340 joules is substantially larger than that, too.

So I'm going to go with "too large to extrapolate".

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby Mutex » Wed May 30, 2018 4:21 pm UTC

You'd definitely want to put on safety goggles.

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Re: How much is 1e340 j of energy?

Postby SuicideJunkie » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:15 pm UTC

gd1 wrote:Note: It did occur to me that something that re-awakens in its previous position from a planet that rotates around a sun would likely be in outer space after 8 hours.
Depending on your choice of reference frame, each chapter could start with a sleepy creature being woken up by the flames of reentry.


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