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0.0 wrote:What plants or animals seem almost impossible to have evolved? Some instances of evolution can be pretty obvious, like say a giraffe grew a long neck due to the hard to get vegetation
What about the venus fly trap? How does a plant that sucks up minerals from the soil and gets energy from the sun one day eat a fly and take its nutrients? How does that one get explained by evolution? I mean wow, what a jump. How did this line of nutrition taking even get started? Wouldn't it have to have been fully developed suddenly one day for it to start helping the plant thus helping it down the road of survival of the fittest? What possibly would have been the mechanism? A mutation that suddenly granted a plant this ability in one step has a probability of near zero. What steps led to the venus fly trap? Even with millions of years for this to happen, how does it?
Plants and insects represent a classic case of coevolution—one that is often, but not always, mutualistic. Many plants and their pollinators are so reliant on one another and their relationships are so exclusive that biologists have good reason to think that the “match” between the two is the result of a coevolutionary process.
But we can see exclusive “matches” between plants and insects even when pollination is not involved. Some Central American Acacia species have hollow thorns and pores at the bases of their leaves that secrete nectar (see image at right). These hollow thorns are the exclusive nest-site of some species of ant that drink the nectar. But the ants are not just taking advantage of the plant—they also defend their acacia plant against herbivores.
This system is probably the product of coevolution: the plants would not have evolved hollow thorns or nectar pores unless their evolution had been affected by the ants, and the ants would not have evolved herbivore defense behaviors unless their evolution had been affected by the plants.
There would actually be no reason for them to fear the smell of humans themselves, because it's only these additional chemicals that they have direct reason to avoid. A naked human will remain as scrumptious a meal as ever.
gmalivuk wrote:There would actually be no reason for them to fear the smell of humans themselves, because it's only these additional chemicals that they have direct reason to avoid. A naked human will remain as scrumptious a meal as ever.
One example of evolution that I find pretty amazing is mitochondria. They are thought to have originated as separate organisms in a symbiotic relationship with cells. They were able to produce energy more efficiently so eventually they were hijacked as the method of energy production and became part of our cells. What I really don't understand is how they could have become integrated into our reproduction.
andqso wrote:One example of evolution that I find pretty amazing is mitochondria. They are thought to have originated as separate organisms in a symbiotic relationship with cells. They were able to produce energy more efficiently so eventually they were hijacked as the method of energy production and became part of our cells. What I really don't understand is how they could have become integrated into our reproduction.
I don't think they ever really did - IIRC my biology teacher told us when a cell divides each half gets whatever mitochondria happened to be there, and if one of the children doesn't get any it just dies. And since all of a zygote's mitochondria originate in the egg they don't participate in sexual reproduction either.
0.0 wrote:Pineapples, bah! What about coconuts? What can possibly eat a coconut?
I feel a Monty Python reference swelling up inside...
Mitochondria divide by binary fission similar to bacterial cell division; unlike bacteria, however, mitochondria can also fuse with other mitochondria.[42][57]. The regulation of this division differs between eukaryotes. In many single-celled eukaryotes, their growth and division is linked to the cell cycle. For example, a single mitochondrion may divide synchronously with the nucleus. This division and segregation process must be tightly controlled so that each daughter cell receives at least one mitochondrion. In other eukaryotes (in humans for example), mitochondria may replicate their DNA and divide mainly in response to the energy needs of the cell, rather than in phase with the cell cycle. When the energy needs of a cell are high, mitochondria grow and divide. When the energy use is low, mitochondria are destroyed or become inactive. In such examples, and in contrast to the situation in many single celled eukaryotes, mitochondria are apparently randomly distributed to the daughter cells during the division of the cytoplasm.
Jonolith wrote: For me, Pineapples. Just... what the hell man? Like... unless you assume that the plant doesn't WANT to be eaten, but then how do you explain plants that ARE easy to eat?
Jonolith wrote: For me, Pineapples. Just... what the hell man? Like... unless you assume that the plant doesn't WANT to be eaten, but then how do you explain plants that ARE easy to eat? Do some plants feel like they need to protect themselves and some plants feel like they shouldn't protect themselves?
proof_man wrote:i've always been curious about the evolution of fangs that inject venom. i'm not sure how the mechanism for delivering poison through the teeth could have been beneficial before it was fully operational or how the modified teeth and glands developed in a coordinated fashion.
mdyrud wrote:How about the bombardier beetle? I don't get how it could have both chemicals appear at the same time, and I don't think either chemical is useful on its own.
TalkOrigins.org wrote: 1. Quinones are produced by epidermal cells for tanning the cuticle. This exists commonly in arthropods. [Dettner, 1987]
2. Some of the quinones don't get used up, but sit on the epidermis, making the arthropod distasteful. (Quinones are used as defensive secretions in a variety of modern arthropods, from beetles to millipedes. [Eisner, 1970])
3. Small invaginations develop in the epidermis between sclerites (plates of cuticle). By wiggling, the insect can squeeze more quinones onto its surface when they're needed.
4. The invaginations deepen. Muscles are moved around slightly, allowing them to help expel the quinones from some of them. (Many ants have glands similar to this near the end of their abdomen. [Holldobler & Wilson, 1990, pp. 233-237])
5. A couple invaginations (now reservoirs) become so deep that the others are inconsequential by comparison. Those gradually revert to the original epidermis.
6. In various insects, different defensive chemicals besides quinones appear. (See Eisner, 1970, for a review.) This helps those insects defend against predators which have evolved resistance to quinones. One of the new defensive chemicals is hydroquinone.
7. Cells that secrete the hydroquinones develop in multiple layers over part of the reservoir, allowing more hydroquinones to be produced. Channels between cells allow hydroquinones from all layers to reach the reservior.
8. The channels become a duct, specialized for transporting the chemicals. The secretory cells withdraw from the reservoir surface, ultimately becoming a separate organ.
This stage -- secretory glands connected by ducts to reservoirs -- exists in many beetles. The particular configuration of glands and reservoirs that bombardier beetles have is common to the other beetles in their suborder. [Forsyth, 1970]
9. Muscles adapt which close off the reservior, thus preventing the chemicals from leaking out when they're not needed.
10. Hydrogen peroxide, which is a common by-product of cellular metabolism, becomes mixed with the hydroquinones. The two react slowly, so a mixture of quinones and hydroquinones get used for defense.
11. Cells secreting a small amount of catalases and peroxidases appear along the output passage of the reservoir, outside the valve which closes it off from the outside. These ensure that more quinones appear in the defensive secretions. Catalases exist in almost all cells, and peroxidases are also common in plants, animals, and bacteria, so those chemicals needn't be developed from scratch but merely concentrated in one location.
12. More catalases and peroxidases are produced, so the discharge is warmer and is expelled faster by the oxygen generated by the reaction. The beetle Metrius contractus provides an example of a bombardier beetle which produces a foamy discharge, not jets, from its reaction chambers. The bubbling of the foam produces a fine mist. [Eisner et al., 2000]
13. The walls of that part of the output passage become firmer, allowing them to better withstand the heat and pressure generated by the reaction.
14. Still more catalases and peroxidases are produced, and the walls toughen and shape into a reaction chamber. Gradually they become the mechanism of today's bombardier beetles.
15. The tip of the beetle's abdomen becomes somewhat elongated and more flexible, allowing the beetle to aim its discharge in various directions.
0.0 wrote:Pineapples, bah! What about coconuts? What can possibly eat a coconut?
I feel a Monty Python reference swelling up inside...
HistidineTheCat wrote:Still can't figure out the platypus (didn't know about the 10 sex chromosome thing - that's wild!), but the wikipedia page gives hints. Apparently they're over 100,000 years old, with "close" relatives Teinolophos and Steropodon being over 110 million years old. The genome was just published (a draft) last May, so maybe we'll get some more answers soon?
Linky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platypus#Evolution
andqso wrote:These things are SO COOL.
psyck0 wrote:To the OP: Your examples (if used to state that evolution was wrong) fall into the "I can't imagine how it happened, therefore it cannot have happened" method of 'proof', which is completely flawed. Remember that evolution works in tiny, tiny, TINY steps. Imagining such a gradual process can be hard, but when the mechanism is found it will ALWAYS seem astonishingly simple BECAUSE evolution has to work with such small steps. There are no big changes that just spring into being, and so the process HAS to be simple and logical. That is why everyone is so amazed at how evolution can be so 'simple', and yet show such dramatic results.
There are probably a few exceptions that I don't know about/can't remember right now.
psyck0 wrote:To the OP: Your examples (if used to state that evolution was wrong) fall into the "I can't imagine how it happened, therefore it cannot have happened" method of 'proof', which is completely flawed. Remember that evolution works in tiny, tiny, TINY steps. Imagining such a gradual process can be hard, but when the mechanism is found it will ALWAYS seem astonishingly simple BECAUSE evolution has to work with such small steps. There are no big changes that just spring into being, and so the process HAS to be simple and logical. That is why everyone is so amazed at how evolution can be so 'simple', and yet show such dramatic results.
There are probably a few exceptions that I don't know about/can't remember right now.
gmalivuk wrote:They don't have enough sex at all, or they don't have enough sex in captivity? Because there are many many animals that have a lot of trouble breeding in captivity.
0SpinBoson wrote:gmalivuk wrote:They don't have enough sex at all, or they don't have enough sex in captivity? Because there are many many animals that have a lot of trouble breeding in captivity.
Regarding Pandas, the problem I see with them is that they don't recognize their babies are being part of them. Seriously, I saw a video of a mother panda smacking her newborn around the cage -- they had to go in and rescue it. How the hell does that survive?
Mr. Beck wrote:In that vein, how in the hell did we get bats? With "sonar", no less!
Roland Lockheart wrote:My question: the lamprey. What is it? It is a long rubber tube filled with teeth and an insatiable appetite for blood. WTF!?!?!?
gmalivuk wrote:(N)o non-flying species closely related to bats has sonar.
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