gmalivuk, Laserguy, I kind of agree and disagree with you. gmalivuk you mentioned that while giving the option of choice does change the result, this tells us nothing about the fundamental aspect of how that choice is made. But if it does give us a result, what action would you choose? Does the mere thought of "I can choose" cause us to act differently than thinking "I can not choose"? I've no problem with that. Because I don't know how the fundamentals work, neither do I need to, in practice. As long as the action gives different results, I take the action that corresponds with the result I want. Why conclude it's an "illusion" if I get different results?
If we get a set of results from scientific method, we model those results as the physical reality. Independently of the problem of "imaginary" reality, we assume the result is reality. If we detect a Higgs Boson in the LHC do we say "oh, but it could be Aliens plying with us" or "it could be our perception is tricking us"?
So, if I get a specific result only when I act on the perception of free will, what conclusion should I make? That "free will is a trick" or "the results suggest a physical reality"?
Remember, I don't have a physical model of Higss Bosons, or of Black holes, or of Fusion in the Sun. Others may, I don't. Yet, I can know if these things physically exist by testing, viewing or looking for independent results. We get the results irrespective of the theories we may have, because the results happen in reality, and our theories are just imaginary. So why should I decide my real results from acting on free will are incorrect because of others imaginary theory that only determinism could exist?
yurell wrote:To me that sounds like a (slightly) more sensible version of Pascal's Wager:
We believe in Free Will, it exists = We were right
We believe in Free Will, it doesn't exist = We had no choice in the matter anyway
We don't believe in Free Will, it exists = We were wrong
We don't believe in Free Will, it doesn't exists = We had no choice in the matter anyway
Clearly it's better to believe in Free Will!
Well this basically, except replace "believe" with "act on" so we can get an actual result of the test. Assuming we don't know which universe we exist in, the only universe with a "result" is the one that free will exists in. The only result we can act on is the "free will" result (by definition we cannot act against our will). The other universes give the same
result as the one with free will. As they give the same result, they are the same, I'll merge them with the universes that give that result. I'm only left with one universe that I could exist in.
Like the LHC, if we get a result at the energy level of a Higgs Boson, it's a Higgs Boson. We don't conclude "it's an imagination" or "an illusion of reality". Remember, I cannot model a Higgs Boson, yet it's existence is independent of my model, and proven by result not theory. I would want to prove free will or choice via result, not theory.
It's all physics and stamp collecting.
It's not a particle or a wave. It's just an exchange.