Facebook vs. Google+

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In a perfect Internet, which social network would everyone be on?

Facebook
6
21%
Google+
10
36%
Some dumb other thing
12
43%
 
Total votes: 28

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davedrowsy
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Facebook vs. Google+

Postby davedrowsy » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:48 pm UTC

So, this has been on my mind ever since the introduction of Google+.

As we all know, Facebook is the undisputed King of Social Networks right now. It's gotten to the point that simply due to the sheer volume of people using Facebook as their primary social network, it would be almost impossible for another network to one-up Facebook and become the King. Even if this new network were vastly superior to Facebook, Facebook would still win because of the impracticality of having everybody switch from Facebook to this new network. In other words, everyone is already using Facebook, so switching to anything else just seems pointless, even if there is something way better.

When Google+ came out, I signed up immediately and I was thrilled with it, as I generally am with most Google products. I wouldn't necessarily call myself a "Google fanboy," but I've always been enamored with their way of doing things, which shows through in the greatness of their products. It seems like every product they unleash is game-changing or makes life easier in some new way. So my immediate desire was to abandon Facebook entirely and just use Google+ for all of my online social life needs. Unfortunately, I was never able to do this, because of the huge, sentinel-like presence of Facebook among my circle of friends and family. It seemed like (and still does) getting rid of my Facebook would effectively isolate me from the rest of the online world. This bums me out. I wish Google+ could beat Facebook somehow, dethroning Facebook as the King of Social Networks, much like Facebook had beaten out Myspace before it. It seems like Google+ should be a game-changer, but it's just not.

So, topics of discussion:
1) Who else feels the way I do?
2) Should Google+ be crowned King?
3) For people who use both, in what ways is Facebook better than Google+, and vice versa?
4) Is there anything we, the denizens of the Internet, can do to help Google+ conquer Facebook? And what about Google? Is there some new feature they could add to Google+ that Facebook doesn't have, something that would make it unstoppable?

Discuss!

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Yoshisummons » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:26 pm UTC

As someone off-the-grid so to speak I don't see why someone would choose one over the other when the primary reason to be on the social site is to interact with people. If everybody is on one particular site the competition would have advantages in functionality. To be honest the only tangential positive experience I've had from Google+ is that the video calls set up made a couple more pod-casts from a particular youtuber/personality look more professional.
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Puppyclaws » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:16 pm UTC

Google+ needs to not even have an option for gender identification, not have any policy regarding pseudonyms, and please also Google invent a time machine to go back in time and undo the damage to Google+'s reputation caused by the even worse version of these policies at first release. Also, if it could not be linked to any other sort of "Google account," but instead be its own thing, that would be grand. (What I am saying is it's not going to happen). If Google had gone a friendlier route with the service at launch I think they would have gotten a lot more adherents due to the "anything but Facebook" mentality (see XKCD 0918), but I think the ship has already sailed.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby teelo » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:34 pm UTC

Myspace > all

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Djehutynakht
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Djehutynakht » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:45 am UTC

If only there was a way to interconnect them. I mean, you can cross between phone carriers, right?

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davedrowsy
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby davedrowsy » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:17 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:If only there was a way to interconnect them. I mean, you can cross between phone carriers, right?

I had that same thought! If only my facebook feed could be somehow integrated into Google+

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby ahammel » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:25 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:If only there was a way to interconnect them. I mean, you can cross between phone carriers, right?
Sounds like there would be nightmareish integration issues, and I don't see how it would be profitable. Then again, I don't understand how either + or Facebook make money in the first place.

My Facebook feed became populated with people I don't know anymore, so I switched +. Now my feed is populated mostly by people who I don't know in person, but who I find interesting. I have no strong feelings about the actual bones of either service. +'s UI seems marginally preferable.
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Dinosaur! » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:31 am UTC

I voted for FB because I actually use it. When G+ first came out, like many people I made an account. I currently have 8 friends on g+, and get some email from them every month or two. At the end of the day, I don't use it because I can't, in turn because nobody else uses it. If g+ had a real userbase, I would be open to making use of it, but I doubt that'll ever happen.

@ahammel: FB makes their money from advertising. In 2011 they made over $3 billion from advertisements alone. The page below is over a year old, but the data seems legit and answers the question.
Link: readwrite.com/2012/05/22/how-does-facebook-make-money

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby ucim » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:20 am UTC

I do not trust social networks.

They do not exist for the purpose of facilitating your interactions with your friends. They exist for the purpose of mining the (very rich) metadata that is made up of who you know, what people you know do, what people you know like, and where people you know go (as well as keeping track of what you do, what you like, where you go...) This information is (or can be, and therefore will be) sold to anybody who wants it badly enough.

This will result in personalization of your interactions with virtually all commercial entities.... but not for your benefit, rather, for theirs.

Facebook has been especially blatant in making your personal information public. I won't go near them.

Google ("don't be evil") has joined their services together, so that identities I had very carefully kept separate are now merged. This harms me (but benefits google and the buyers of its data). I don't trust them any more.

I don't think people realize just how invasive metadata is, let alone actual data. Unfortunately, it's probably way too late to make a difference.

Jose
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Chen » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:02 pm UTC

ucim wrote:I do not trust social networks.

They do not exist for the purpose of facilitating your interactions with your friends. They exist for the purpose of mining the (very rich) metadata that is made up of who you know, what people you know do, what people you know like, and where people you know go (as well as keeping track of what you do, what you like, where you go...) This information is (or can be, and therefore will be) sold to anybody who wants it badly enough.


Sure the company's purpose is to make money and such, but that doesn't mean they don't also succeed at facilitating interactions with your friends. Planning birthday dinners or the like is far simpler using Facebook events. And its been fantastic for our RPGs. Setting things up so people can attach pictures with names of characters is nice. Its also great for between session/downtime actions, especially for games where there's inter-pc conflict (Vampire is a good example).

This will result in personalization of your interactions with virtually all commercial entities.... but not for your benefit, rather, for theirs.


Can't it be both? Sure the other commercial entities get to peddle their wares in a more directed manner, but in the cases where it actually IS things that interest me, this can be a benefit to myself as well.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby ucim » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:34 am UTC

Yes, Chen, it is a tradeoff. It is not however a symmetric one. The question is whether or not the tradeoff is worth it, and how the trade could bite you later.

Jose (puts tinfoil hat back on)
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby teenidle » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:06 am UTC

ucim wrote:
Google ("don't be evil") has joined their services together, so that identities I had very carefully kept separate are now merged.

This. I hate hate hate hate it.

I don't like Google+ all that much.
"Hot on Google+ from Inspirational Quotes"? Why is this showing up on my stream(ifthatswhatitscalled)? Why does google think I want it there? How do I make it go away? "Hot on Google+ from Love & Friendship Quotes"? Seriously what the fuck.
But by this time my Facebook newsfeed has degenarated into people sharing their ask.fm profiles over and over again, for some reason. but then this has less to do with Facebook, and more to do with something someone would say: "those are your friends, not mine". Ahem.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:18 pm UTC

teenidle wrote:
ucim wrote:
Google ("don't be evil") has joined their services together, so that identities I had very carefully kept separate are now merged.

This. I hate hate hate hate it.

I don't like Google+ all that much.
"Hot on Google+ from Inspirational Quotes"? Why is this showing up on my stream(ifthatswhatitscalled)? Why does google think I want it there? How do I make it go away? "Hot on Google+ from Love & Friendship Quotes"? Seriously what the fuck.
But by this time my Facebook newsfeed has degenarated into people sharing their ask.fm profiles over and over again, for some reason. but then this has less to do with Facebook, and more to do with something someone would say: "those are your friends, not mine". Ahem.


Left side of the screen should be Home. Should be a "Hot on Google+" entry. Click it.

Should be a "What's hot and recommended" at the top, and a gear. Click it. Uncheck "Show posts in home stream"

Problem solved?

But yeah, I mostly use it these days to coordinate my floating D&D game at the Shiny Deathtower. Yeah, people call it the Flashcube because.. well, obvious reasons. I like my name better.

Seriously who's fucking bright idea was it to build a goddamn mirrored building where there are no other tall buildings AND have it line up more or less perfectly with N/S/E/W such that driving on the E/W road you are consistently blinded by the sun if it is not directly overhead?
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Chen » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:34 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Seriously who's fucking bright idea was it to build a goddamn mirrored building where there are no other tall buildings AND have it line up more or less perfectly with N/S/E/W such that driving on the E/W road you are consistently blinded by the sun if it is not directly overhead?


At least it does't melt parked cars like the parabolic one in London
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counterhash
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby counterhash » Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:31 am UTC

ucim wrote:I do not trust social networks.

They do not exist for the purpose of facilitating your interactions with your friends. They exist for the purpose of mining the (very rich) metadata that is made up of who you know, what people you know do, what people you know like, and where people you know go (as well as keeping track of what you do, what you like, where you go...) This information is (or can be, and therefore will be) sold to anybody who wants it badly enough.

This will result in personalization of your interactions with virtually all commercial entities.... but not for your benefit, rather, for theirs.

Facebook has been especially blatant in making your personal information public. I won't go near them.

Google ("don't be evil") has joined their services together, so that identities I had very carefully kept separate are now merged. This harms me (but benefits google and the buyers of its data). I don't trust them any more.

I don't think people realize just how invasive metadata is, let alone actual data. Unfortunately, it's probably way too late to make a difference.

Jose


Look, I get your point, but you need to think about the value of having a social network vs. the value of not having one.

For me, being able to contact my friends seems to be a lot more valuable than having my metadata sold to third-party advertisers/NSA. If I wanted to stay hidden I'd use a VPN and separate my accounts.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Ptolom » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:59 pm UTC

I like the idea of a decentralised network like usenet. Not usenet itself, we need something more flexible so people can write their own frontends, and some serious spam filters.
End to end encryption would be good too.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby counterhash » Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:29 am UTC

Ptolom wrote:I like the idea of a decentralised network like usenet. Not usenet itself, we need something more flexible so people can write their own frontends, and some serious spam filters.
End to end encryption would be good too.


Oh, so cjdns (Google it, I'm getting filtered...)

CJDNS was spawned off Project Meshnet, which was initially a group of redditors trying to make something to fall back on if the internet ever fails from censorship or anything like that (SOPA was the initial thing they were trying to evade). It's since evolved into an amazing piece of technology. I use it pretty often, although the current network on it is pretty incomplete...

It's pretty secure, as it uses CryptoAuth, but the best thing is it completely removes metadata. Using some awesome packet-switching techniques, you can be given a packet to send down the meshnet, and all you know about it is the person it just came from and the person you're about to send it to, not the initial point and the intended recipient.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby SurgicalSteel » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:03 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Yeah, people call it the Flashcube because.. well, obvious reasons. I like my name better.
Completely off topic, but we also have a "Flashcube Building" that is blinding in the evening.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby |Erasmus| » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:50 am UTC

ucim wrote:I do not trust social networks.

They do not exist for the purpose of facilitating your interactions with your friends. They exist for the purpose of mining the (very rich) metadata that is made up of who you know, what people you know do, what people you know like, and where people you know go (as well as keeping track of what you do, what you like, where you go...) This information is (or can be, and therefore will be) sold to anybody who wants it badly enough.

This will result in personalization of your interactions with virtually all commercial entities.... but not for your benefit, rather, for theirs.

Facebook has been especially blatant in making your personal information public. I won't go near them.

Google ("don't be evil") has joined their services together, so that identities I had very carefully kept separate are now merged. This harms me (but benefits google and the buyers of its data). I don't trust them any more.

I don't think people realize just how invasive metadata is, let alone actual data. Unfortunately, it's probably way too late to make a difference.

Jose


For better or worse, no service is free, and any "free" (as in monetarily) service needs to monetarize itself somehow. I don't particularly mind if they know what kind of books I read or movies I watch and they are able to advertise products more to my liking to me. Better than constantly having ads everywhere that have nothing to do with anything I like (I might find out about something new I might like this way).

And I think it depends what you call "personal information". I trust they're not giving my email address to people, or my phone number. As to the fact I fit a certain demographic and like certain genres of entertainment, those things are not particularly secret.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:18 pm UTC

I trust they're not giving my email address to people, or my phone number.


That's hilarious.
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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Zarq » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:45 pm UTC

|Erasmus| wrote:
For better or worse, no service is free, and any "free" (as in monetarily) service needs to monetarize itself somehow. I don't particularly mind if they know what kind of books I read or movies I watch and they are able to advertise products more to my liking to me. Better than constantly having ads everywhere that have nothing to do with anything I like (I might find out about something new I might like this way).

And I think it depends what you call "personal information". I trust they're not giving my email address to people, or my phone number. As to the fact I fit a certain demographic and like certain genres of entertainment, those things are not particularly secret.


This. What the hell do people put on Facebook that they care so much about it being sold? I don't give a single fuck about the fact that Facebook sells companies the info that I like D&D, comics, and movies. If those companies would come, I'd give them it free of charge. But Facebook provides a service to me, so it's only fair that they make money of that. And if the result is that I see ads for comic stores and movies, instead of perfume and clothing, then we both win.

As for who you associate with. Is that a secret? If there are people you want to keep secret, don't add them on Facebook, use it for stuff that CAN be publicly know. Make a fool out of the companies who pay money for useless data. Beat the system.

As for email address and phone number. Phone number is still not mandatory (even if they whine and bitch if you don't give it), and use a spam address.
You rang?

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby |Erasmus| » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:04 pm UTC

They've had my email address for years and I don't get any appreciable amount of spam or anything... If they're selling it to people they're certainly getting money for nothing.

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Re: Facebook vs. Google+

Postby Pingouin7 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:57 pm UTC

I don't particularly care about getting spam e-mails, because GMail is doing an amazing job at putting every single spam e-mail in the Spam folder while keeping the non-spam off the Spam folder.
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