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Jplus
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Jplus » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:53 pm UTC

Deva wrote:
Adam H wrote:My random theory:
Visual art is art for the sense of sight,
Music is art for the sense of hearing,
Cooking is art for the sense of taste,
Perfumery is art for the sense of smell,
_____ is art for the sense of touch...

Sex? Hmmm...

Could argue for fighting too. Expresses (generally unflattering) feelings. Allows for creativity and skill.

Perhaps this is why movies with sex and violence are so popular. In Dutch we even have a word for it: kneukfilms ("kneuk" is a contraction of "knok" and "neuk", meaning "fight" and "fuck" respectively).
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:My random theory:
Visual art is art for the sense of sight,
Music is art for the sense of hearing,
Cooking is art for the sense of taste,
Perfumery is art for the sense of smell,
_____ is art for the sense of touch...

Sex? Hmmm...

Massage? It's more therapeutic, but that's close to art.

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby poxic » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:51 pm UTC

I'd say dance, if we're going with not-sex. People who dance feel what their bodies are doing, and those who watch them dance feel their mirror neurons firing, giving them a muted sense of the same thing.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Jplus » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:31 pm UTC

poxic wrote:I'd say dance, if we're going with not-sex. People who dance feel what their bodies are doing, and those who watch them dance feel their mirror neurons firing, giving them a muted sense of the same thing.

Actually, I totally agree with this.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:54 pm UTC

bluebambue wrote:I would say social partner dancing is people making touch art for each other.

I'd argue it's art for the sense of motion. Or sense of Proprioception, which is kinda the same thing only more exact and covers a larger area.

The art of touch would be sandblasting. Or engraving. Embossing. Frescos. Sculpture. Shit meant to feel neat when you rub your hands over it and you're expected to rub your hands over it.

I wonder about art for the sense of time. Sandcastles? Ice sculptures? Offspring?
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby yurell » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:16 pm UTC

Are artisans artists? Are their works art?

For time, I would pick music. At no point in time is any piece of music particularly impressive beyond 'ooh, that's an interesting chord' — you would have to listen to some time interval.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby bigglesworth » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:42 pm UTC

For touch it's obviously fabric-making. Cashmere, cotton, suede leather. They're all great to touch.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SurgicalSteel » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:33 pm UTC

yurell wrote:For time, I would pick music. At no point in time is any piece of music particularly impressive beyond 'ooh, that's an interesting chord' — you would have to listen to some time interval.
Also movies. Yes, a still from a well shot movie will be an impressive piece of visual art, but it's something else entirely in the context of what comes before and what comes after.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Magnanimous » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:54 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:For touch it's obviously fabric-making. Cashmere, cotton, suede leather. They're all great to touch.

What about sticking your hands in a box of peeled grapes and pretending they're eyeballs?

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby addams » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:36 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
bluebambue wrote:I would say social partner dancing is people making touch art for each other.

I'd argue it's art for the sense of motion. Or sense of Proprioception, which is kinda the same thing only more exact and covers a larger area.

The art of touch would be sandblasting. Or engraving. Embossing. Frescos. Sculpture. Shit meant to feel neat when you rub your hands over it and you're expected to rub your hands over it.

I wonder about art for the sense of time. Sandcastles? Ice sculptures? Offspring?

Time used as Art.
Nice idea. Very nice.

As we move though the world, over and over we see the ravages of Time.
To see it as Art is nice. Art connotes thoughtfulness.

Some Art skirts the two subjects Art and Science.
Or; Maybe some encompasses the two subjects.

Art that is set up to both last and change.
Label it. Keep records. It's Science.

Like to look at it? It's Art.

Sex as Art? sure. Label it. It is not good public art.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby ahammel » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:47 am UTC

I think I've discovered the secret to successfully transitioning from childhood celebrity to adult celebrity. The secret is to be known by three names. Going by only two is asking for trouble. Examples:

Two names:
Michael Jackson: went insane
Lindsay Lohan: drug problems
Macaulay Culkin, Gary Coleman: ripped off by their parents

Three names:
Joseph Gordon-Levitt: seems to be doing fine.
Neil Patrick Harris: is sometimes unhappy, but on those ocassions he stops being so, and instead inspires awe.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby addams » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:52 am UTC

ahammel wrote:I think I've discovered the secret to successfully transitioning from childhood celebrity to adult celebrity. The secret is to be known by three names. Going by only two is asking for trouble. Examples:

Two names:
Michael Jackson: went insane
Lindsay Lohan: drug problems
Macaulay Culkin, Gary Coleman: ripped off by their parents

Three names:
Joseph Gordon-Levitt: seems to be doing fine.
Neil Patrick Harris: is sometimes unhappy, but on those ocassions he stops being so, and instead inspires awe.

Is this an important concern for you?
Were you or are you now a child celebrity?

If you skip the child celebrity part, you can skip the ripped off, drug problem and going insane.
Of course, these things are exclusively for the celebrities. You can keep up with Hollywood.

You Too can go insane, use drugs and get ripped off by people you thought loved you.
The order might matter. I do believe I have it backwards.

pfft. Don't be a celebrity.
Start using all three names?
Is that why we have three?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:44 am UTC

ahammel wrote:I think I've discovered the secret to successfully transitioning from childhood celebrity to adult celebrity. The secret is to be known by three names. Going by only two is asking for trouble. Examples:

Two names:
Michael Jackson: went insane
Lindsay Lohan: drug problems
Macaulay Culkin, Gary Coleman: ripped off by their parents

Three names:
Joseph Gordon-Levitt: seems to be doing fine.
Neil Patrick Harris: is sometimes unhappy, but on those ocassions he stops being so, and instead inspires awe.

Maybe this is why Robert Downey Jr. added the junior.

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:00 pm UTC

Random thought: if you blew up the moon, what crime would you be charged with?
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby yurell » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:06 pm UTC

Littering, I guess.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:15 pm UTC

No lawyer but I doubt littering is a crime.

I'd wager on environmental terrorism.

(I can count 3 instances of moon destruction/removal in anime - and they still replaced it in two of those instances)

edit: seems like there is a lot of moon destruction in fiction

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby bluebambue » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:21 pm UTC

Litter in the United States is an environmental issue and littering is often a criminal offense, punishable with a fine as set out by statutes in many places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litter_in_ ... ted_States

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SlyReaper » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:59 pm UTC

What about using hypothetical futuretech to draw a giant smiley face on the nearside of the moon, so large that it's naked-eye visible? What law would that break? Or using even more distant futuretech to move stars around in the sky so that they spell "YOLO"?

I think we need new laws to cover "cosmic vandalism".
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby poxic » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

youguyssock.jpg
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:01 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Random thought: if you blew up the moon, what crime would you be charged with?


Is it actually possible to blow up the moon? I know blowing up planets happens semi-regularly in fiction, but it doesn't seem very practical.

Explosives are kinda lame in low-atmosphere environments, so they go out the window fairly quickly. Although I guess if you placed a humongous pile of explosives in the center of the moon, it might blow up in the most literal sense. But that needs to be *a lot* of explosives. In order for the moon to be considered "blown up", you need enough energy to get a significant chunk of the moon's mass into escape velocity.

You could hurl another planetoid at the moon I suppose. That might cause it to "blow up" in some sense. Like how the earth supposedly blew up and created the moon. But that doesn't seem to be very effective, as the earth is still mostly here.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:01 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:What law would that break?
No law as such for the actual vandalism. Depending on what launch vehicle you used and where you might be breaking laws about use of airspace.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:41 pm UTC

I believe that would break the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", better known as the "Outer Space Treaty".
Last edited by e^iπ+1=0 on Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:50 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:02 pm UTC

Not signed and ratified by every country in the world. So Uzbekistan, for example, can shit all over outer space without violating any treaty.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:31 pm UTC

e^iπ+1=0 wrote:I believe that would break the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", better known as the "Other Space Treaty".
Nope, doesn't cover what you actually do in space, as long as you don't put military bases there or nuclear weapons, or affect other space exploratory activities.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:50 am UTC

The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind.


Sounds like blowing up the moon would conflict with that, unless all of the countries agreed it was beneficial.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Adacore » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:23 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:Nope, doesn't cover what you actually do in space, as long as you don't put military bases there or nuclear weapons, or affect other space exploratory activities.

How much of an effect do you need to have for it to be illegal? Moving stars around would certainly cause slight changes to both the gravity field and any techniques that use the stars for navigation (I know the Apollo missions used telescopes and stars to check their position/orientation).

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby phlip » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:33 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Is it actually possible to blow up the moon? I know blowing up planets happens semi-regularly in fiction, but it doesn't seem very practical.

I imagine most of the geocide manual applies, albeit in a (slightly) smaller scale.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Magnanimous » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:08 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Is it actually possible to blow up the moon? I know blowing up planets happens semi-regularly in fiction, but it doesn't seem very practical.
Tell that to Oblivion.

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SurgicalSteel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:27 am UTC

I wish there was a way I could live in an area where I can buy a 3 bedroom house on 100 acres of land for 200,0000 dollars, and still work in an area of the country where I can make enough money to afford that. Or even have a job related to my degree. As near as I can tell, rural Pennsylvania doesn't have much as much use for computer programmers as DC or Southern California.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby PM 2Ring » Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:59 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:In order for the moon to be considered "blown up", you need enough energy to get a significant chunk of the moon's mass into escape velocity.

Using the formula here and Google's figures for the mass & radius of the Moon, Google Calculator says that the Moon's gravitational binding energy is
0.6 * G * (7.34767309E22 kg)^2 / (1737.4 km) = 1.24430508E29 joules

Of course, you'd need to use more energy than that because the Moon isn't currently a loose pile of stuff. But I don't know how to figure out the total chemical binding energy of the lunar rocks. OTOH, I assume it's less than the gravitational binding energy, since gravity dominates the other forces in determining the shape of the Moon.

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby ahammel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:19 am UTC

e^iπ+1=0 wrote:I believe that would break the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", better known as the "Outer Space Treaty".
Can you violate a treaty if you're a private citizen and not a state?
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:49 am UTC

e^iπ+1=0 wrote:Sounds like blowing up the moon would conflict with that, unless all of the countries agreed it was beneficial.
I thought we were still talking about putting graffiti on the moon visible from earth.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby Magnanimous » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:35 am UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:0.6 * G * (7.34767309E22 kg)^2 / (1737.4 km) = 1.24430508E29 joules

well that doesn't seem like very mOH THERE'S AN E THERE

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby sparkyb » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:05 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:I wish there was a way I could live in an area where I can buy a 3 bedroom house on 100 acres of land for 200,0000 dollars, and still work in an area of the country where I can make enough money to afford that. Or even have a job related to my degree. As near as I can tell, rural Pennsylvania doesn't have much as much use for computer programmers as DC or Southern California.

Yeah, 2 million is a lot of dollars (unless that last zero was a mistake). As a computer programmer you're in a better position than most to try and find a job that lets you work remotely. I have a friend here in Boston who was working for a company in San Francisco for a while and they seemed ok with that. I think right now that's your best option. But this is why I'm always saying that we really need to invent teleportation ASAP. It would make commuting so much better. People shouldn't be limited in where they live based on where they work and vice-versa. I want to live in Boston, work in LA, and go out in London.

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:35 pm UTC

bigglesworth wrote:
e^iπ+1=0 wrote:I believe that would break the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", better known as the "Other Space Treaty".
Nope, doesn't cover what you actually do in space, as long as you don't put military bases there or nuclear weapons, or affect other space exploratory activities.

Antimatter weapons are fine though, right? Or weapons that open a wormhole between the target and the core of a nearby star?
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby broken_escalator » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:44 pm UTC

SurgicalSteel wrote:I wish there was a way I could live in an area where I can buy a 3 bedroom house on 100 acres of land for 200,0000 dollars, and still work in an area of the country where I can make enough money to afford that. Or even have a job related to my degree. As near as I can tell, rural Pennsylvania doesn't have much as much use for computer programmers as DC or Southern California.

There are quite a few people that make the hellish commute from rural Pennsylvania down to the DC metro area. If you could find a job that allows you to telework then I guess it wouldn't be too bad. Some of the programmers I know prefer to work 10 or 12 hour days since it takes them an hour to get here anyway.

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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:53 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Antimatter weapons are fine though, right? Or weapons that open a wormhole between the target and the core of a nearby star?
No, all weapons of mass destruction are banned.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby e^iπ+1=0 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:40 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
e^iπ+1=0 wrote:I believe that would break the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", better known as the "Outer Space Treaty".
Can you violate a treaty if you're a private citizen and not a state?

Hmm, quite possibly not that bit, but I think you could break Article VI:

States Parties to the Treaty shall bear international responsibility for national activities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, whether such activities are carried on by governmental agencies or by non-governmental entities, and for assuring that national activities are carried out in conformity with the provisions set forth in the present Treaty. The activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty.


That seems to indicate that you could at least be charged with not getting the required authorization and supervision.
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby SurgicalSteel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

sparkyb wrote:
SurgicalSteel wrote:I wish there was a way I could live in an area where I can buy a 3 bedroom house on 100 acres of land for 200,0000 dollars, and still work in an area of the country where I can make enough money to afford that. Or even have a job related to my degree. As near as I can tell, rural Pennsylvania doesn't have much as much use for computer programmers as DC or Southern California.

Yeah, 2 million is a lot of dollars (unless that last zero was a mistake). As a computer programmer you're in a better position than most to try and find a job that lets you work remotely.
Oops, yea that was a type, I meant 200,000 (two-hundred thousand). I paid 230,000 for a townhouse on something like 0.1 acres in a growing part of Northern Virginia, and I look at listings for other areas where I could get a free-standing house on at least 100x as much land, for less money. I think I need to change sub-industries, because most of the jobs I look at don't allow working remotely. But that's probably because a lot of them require working with classified information, so being on-site is important.

broken_escalator wrote:There are quite a few people that make the hellish commute from rural Pennsylvania down to the DC metro area. If you could find a job that allows you to telework then I guess it wouldn't be too bad. Some of the programmers I know prefer to work 10 or 12 hour days since it takes them an hour to get here anyway.
I really want some land, but I don't think I want land as much as I don't want a 2 hour commute. I've been spoiled by always living near my job, even a 45 minute commute sounds terrible to me.
"There's spray paint on the teleprompter
Anchorman screams that he's seen a monster (mayday)
There's blood stains on his shirt (mayday)
They say that he's gone berserk."
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broken_escalator
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Re: unhatched fishes and turtle excluding devices

Postby broken_escalator » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:49 pm UTC

I totally understand that. I can barely withstand my 25 minute commute sometimes. The people who live close enough to walk to my work are blessed.


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