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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby mathmannix » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:38 pm UTC

roband wrote:Not trying to put you down here, but isn't that THE theory?
I hope so, because then I win. Personally, I've never seen or heard it explained, as it's usually just mocked or used in jokes (or webcomics).
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Adacore » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:49 pm UTC

I always interpreted it as: An optimist looks at a container that is half full of good stuff, and says 'hey look, I have some good stuff, my glass is half full of good stuff, life is excellent'. A pessimist looks at the same container and says 'oh, look at all this empty space that should be filled with good stuff but isn't, my glass of good stuff is half empty, life is terrible'. Basically the difference between 'half a glass is better than an empty glass' and 'half a glass is worse than a full glass'.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby roband » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:12 am UTC

This is deep. Or is it shallow? I mean, it could be deepER.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:41 am UTC

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:23 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
Ubik wrote:My intuition says it would be the other way, underwater the glass would not stay hot enough for blowing. Without gravity things would get tricky, but on the other hand all the material I've seen of glassblowers at work, they're constantly rotating the blowpipe and the piece of glass to prevent it from becoming lopsided.


Yeah, that was what I was trying to say. Only I got it the wrong way around :P

If there exists a pressure where both water and silicon is liquid, it's pretty high.

What happens to water at those temperatures.
This is a made up World, anyway. (right?)

It is not possible for you to go into space and make a glass.
It is not possible for you to enter a space that is filled with water that is at the same temperature glass is at when glass melts.

They will both be hotter than Hell.

The glass will have very different properties compared to the water.
I doubt you will get them mixed up.

What does water act like?
Of course it will boil off, if you don't use some kind of pressure.

Under those pressures, how will the glass act.
The cold of space, starts to look easier to deal with.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:32 am UTC

Adacore wrote:I always interpreted it as: An optimist looks at a container that is half full of good stuff, and says 'hey look, I have some good stuff, my glass is half full of good stuff, life is excellent'. A pessimist looks at the same container and says 'oh, look at all this empty space that should be filled with good stuff but isn't, my glass of good stuff is half empty, life is terrible'. Basically the difference between 'half a glass is better than an empty glass' and 'half a glass is worse than a full glass'.

You understand it.

What are you?
Half full or Half Empty?

That is a Fundamental Psychological Test.
It is reworded and made situationally unrecognizable.

It is still there.
A fundamental Truth about your personality.

A Truth you have a great deal of control over.
Don't beat you up. You do not live in a vacuum.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby yurell » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:33 am UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:If there exists a pressure where both water and silicon is liquid, it's pretty high.


Silicon is only liquid at temperatures past that of the critical point of water (647 K, 22.1 MPa), meaning that the best we can do is put silicon in its liquid state and have the water as a supercritical fluid.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:47 am UTC

yurell wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:If there exists a pressure where both water and silicon is liquid, it's pretty high.


Silicon is only liquid at temperatures past that of the critical point of water (647 K, 22.1 MPa), meaning that the best we can do is put silicon in its liquid state and have the water as a supercritical fluid.

That stuff is strange.
I have no idea what materials do under extreme conditions.

If a wikipedia article leaves One Little Thing undescribed, I wonder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_p ... modynamics)
Above the critical temperature, a liquid cannot be formed by an increase in pressure, even though a solid may be formed under sufficient pressure.


Water?
I wonder, 'Water?'

Under sufficient pressure a solid can be formed.
Nah. Not hot water, Ice. That would be weird.

Maybe something pure, but not water.
Still...Past critical temperature and critical pressure...

You can Do It!
You can make a Glass that has never been empty.

You can't look at it.
You can't touch it.

You can think about it.
Just, think about it.

Thinking is cheaper and safer than doing.
And; In this case, just, as productive.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Quercus » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:14 pm UTC

I was reading Randall's What-If book and had one of those "why did no-one tell me this before, and were they all just laughing at me for not figuring it out" moments. It's like realising that you have been wearing your T-shirt inside out all day, just with science and over a period of years.

Today's realisation was: The lanthanides and actinides are placed separately to the main periodic table purely to avoid making it too wide (much like Alaska and Hawaii on a map of the USA). I guess I kind of knew this on an intellectual level, but I always vaguely thought they were special because they got their own little bit underneath all the rest of the elements - nope!

The other one I spent a while trying to figure out as a kid was how colour mixing worked - before I realised that it has nothing to do with the properties of light (I still don't know why it was taught in physics class), and everything to do with the absorption spectra of the three human opsin proteins. For some reason that was never mentioned in the textbooks. I've always wondered whether the kids that didn't have a problem with it worked out that it was biology before I did, or just didn't realise (or perhaps didn't care) that it made no sense as physics.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Angua » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:54 pm UTC

Today my consultant told me that talking to me was the conversational equivalent of an out of body experience.

Compliment?
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Quercus » Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:19 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Today my consultant told me that talking to me was the conversational equivalent of an out of body experience.

Compliment?


Probably, but I'm not sure - it could mean "talking to you is profoundly enlightening and perspective-altering", but I guess it could also mean "talking to you makes me feel like I am about to die". Personally I'd choose the one which makes you feel better about yourself :)

And now, something to file under "absolutely gorgeous facts": there are approximately one mole of stars in the observable universe1

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Yakk » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:34 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:The other one I spent a while trying to figure out as a kid was how colour mixing worked - before I realised that it has nothing to do with the properties of light (I still don't know why it was taught in physics class), and everything to do with the absorption spectra of the three human opsin proteins. For some reason that was never mentioned in the textbooks. I've always wondered whether the kids that didn't have a problem with it worked out that it was biology before I did, or just didn't realise (or perhaps didn't care) that it made no sense as physics.

Well, not quite.

Our eyes & brain are pretty good at extracting a 3 dimensional (very) roughly linear space of color.

You can create a human color gamut (google the images, you'll get lots), and if you have a color in one region of the gamut and you mix it with a color in another region, you'll get the color half way in between (roughly).

It is true that there are colors we see that do not correspond to any pure spectrum, white being the most obvious, and some purples also being easy to see.

What makes mixing pigments really strange is not because of the human color gamut, but rather because pigments mix absorption, reflection, refraction and transparency to generate what they look like.

The easiest way to model them is as a subtractive color model at least for some pigments. CMYK (printer ink) is usually modeled as a subtractive color system, where C M Y and K all have different absorption properties, and if you mix them the result absorbs both.

The paints used in art class would probably be modeled best that way as well. Which is why when you mix lots of pigments, it goes more towards brown than white.

The real fun arrives when you decide to actually model "real color", before projecting back into perceptual space. Now you have a nigh-infinite dimensional color space. Fortunately, you can usually treat spectral response as a somewhat continuous function, and model by convolving spectral response functions rather than sampling or something else icky.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby FierceContinent » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:01 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Today my consultant told me that talking to me was the conversational equivalent of an out of body experience.<br abp="732"><br abp="733">Compliment?


Consultant?
Like a person who comes in to advise you on some complicated part of your business?
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Angua » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:04 pm UTC

The doctor who's 'finished' their training so at the highest position in the team in the UK.

Not sure what the term is in other areas of the world.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Sombrero Cat » Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:46 pm UTC

what was the body language? Facial expressions? Character of individual? Dr. House or Patch Adams?

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Angua » Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:58 pm UTC

He was laughing when he said it. Definitely one of the more jokier consultants. Also, a dark horse at table football.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby UniqueScreenname » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:16 pm UTC

He's saying you're like him. So ask him if he likes himself. Problem solved.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Angua » Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:31 pm UTC

My house mate said he knew what he meant, apparently I make random connections that only make sense in retrospect combined with somewhat atypical life experiences (in this case being from somewhere where dog poisonings are relatively common and done especially if it's thought your dog is attacking goats or sheep).
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby strake » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:00 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:The other one I spent a while trying to figure out as a kid was how colour mixing worked - before I realised that it has nothing to do with the properties of light (I still don't know why it was taught in physics class), and everything to do with the absorption spectra of the three human opsin proteins. For some reason that was never mentioned in the textbooks. I've always wondered whether the kids that didn't have a problem with it worked out that it was biology before I did, or just didn't realise (or perhaps didn't care) that it made no sense as physics.


Yes, it is moronic to teach this in physics class. It confused me too for a while.

On that note, perhaps if we ever modify our eyes to see more colors, RGB will seem like greyscale does now.

Quercus wrote:And now, something to file under "absolutely gorgeous facts": there are approximately one mole of stars in the observable universe1


How is that absolutely gorgeous?

Someone happened to define a unit of mass which is roughly the mass of (the number of stars in the observable universe) nucleons in carbon-12. To my knowledge, this is no deep truth, merely a fluke.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby yurell » Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:16 pm UTC

strake wrote:On that note, perhaps if we ever modify our eyes to see more colors, RGB will seem like greyscale does now.


There are people who are tetrachromats, meaning that they have four different colour receptors. This is due to a mutation in an X chromosome that describes the green receptor, meaning that there are two different types of greens, and some people are lucky enough to have both, giving them a much wider colour gamut even if the two are fairly close together in terms of absorption spectra.

strake wrote:Someone happened to define a unit of mass which is roughly the mass of (the number of stars in the observable universe) nucleons in carbon-12. To my knowledge, this is no deep truth, merely a fluke.


AFAIK, we think it's right to within a couple of orders of magnitude, so not necessarily even that close. Still, I'd argue that it fits in the 'absolutely gorgeous facts' category because it's a happy little coincidence, like a year being π*107 seconds long.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:05 pm UTC

I want to Vote!
I Vote, 'absolutely gorgeous fact'

In the Physical Science Building there was a display made by the Faculty for the Students.
There were labeled piles of stuff. A Mole of This and a Mole of That. Some Big, Some small.

As I stood with my forehead against the glass wondering how in the world I was going to pass,
I found the motivation to keep going inside that case. A Biological Mole. A StarNosed Mole.

That case could have something that represents the Mole that is our Universe.
Things that are funny, out of place, don't really belong can make The Difference.

To think about a Mole of Stars next to a Mole of Sulfur, next to a StarNosed Mole,
might be enough to keep some other marginal student doing those seemingly meaningless equations.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Quercus » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:15 pm UTC

strake wrote:
Quercus wrote:And now, something to file under "absolutely gorgeous facts": there are approximately one mole of stars in the observable universe1


How is that absolutely gorgeous?

Someone happened to define a unit of mass which is roughly the mass of (the number of stars in the observable universe) nucleons in carbon-12. To my knowledge, this is no deep truth, merely a fluke.


It's absolutely gorgeous because I've done enough chemistry to know, kind of intuitively, how much a mole is - therefore with that fact I know kind of intuitively how many stars there are in the observable universe, which I something I enjoy the mind-feel* of.

*Is there a better word for this? - I mean the texture or tone that a concept makes in your mind and how that makes you feel.

Yakk wrote:Well, not quite.

Our eyes & brain are pretty good at extracting a 3 dimensional (very) roughly linear space of color.

You can create a human color gamut (google the images, you'll get lots), and if you have a color in one region of the gamut and you mix it with a color in another region, you'll get the color half way in between (roughly).

It is true that there are colors we see that do not correspond to any pure spectrum, white being the most obvious, and some purples also being easy to see.

What makes mixing pigments really strange is not because of the human color gamut, but rather because pigments mix absorption, reflection, refraction and transparency to generate what they look like.


Yeh, pigments are complicated (and interesting - thanks for the elaboration). What I was getting is was just that the positions of the vertices in the human colour gamut are determined by biology (or at least the physics of proteins rather than the physics of light).

yurell wrote:
strake wrote:On that note, perhaps if we ever modify our eyes to see more colors, RGB will seem like greyscale does now.


There are people who are tetrachromats, meaning that they have four different colour receptors. This is due to a mutation in an X chromosome that describes the green receptor, meaning that there are two different types of greens, and some people are lucky enough to have both, giving them a much wider colour gamut even if the two are fairly close together in terms of absorption spectra.


I am less lucky in that regard - my red opsin has a mutation which makes it less sensitive to light and also shifted towards shorter wavelengths (a condition known as protanomaly). This makes reds dimmer than normal, and small or dim areas of red appear black or dark grey to me. Being in a field which often has red fluorescent staining in micrographs I often have to say to people "if you want me to comment on that you're going to need to change the colours, it's just a black square to me at the moment"
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby phlip » Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:11 am UTC

Quercus wrote:Today's realisation was: The lanthanides and actinides are placed separately to the main periodic table purely to avoid making it too wide (much like Alaska and Hawaii on a map of the USA). I guess I kind of knew this on an intellectual level, but I always vaguely thought they were special because they got their own little bit underneath all the rest of the elements - nope!

Yeah, you could just run them all inline if you really wanted to. Or you could go to the other extreme and pull out the other blocks too...

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Sombrero Cat » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:05 am UTC

12 bullets. bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang...... That's alot of bullets at short range. What was the reason for the number of shots? Ferguson MO...

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:20 am UTC

Sombrero Cat wrote:12 bullets. bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang...... That's alot of bullets at short range. What was the reason for the number of shots? Ferguson MO...

I'll answer your question with what little I know.
The number of bullets fired by Trained Police in the US is determined to a large extent by the number of bullets the gun holds.
Many are trained to empty the firearm. If it has six shells, there will be six shots. If it holds twelve, twelve shots will be fired.

I have another Random Thought.
Our voices are both a product of our environments and our genetic messages.

I have not heard my sister's voice in many years.
I thought I would never hear it again.

There are no other people in this environment.
Some dumb thing on the Internet caused me to laugh.

I heard my sister's voice.
It came out of my mouth.

How weird is that?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:27 am UTC

It would be cool to have a pair of glasses that can arbitrarily map incoming light to the visible spectrum. Like you could restrict your vision to 600-700 nm, and then oranges would look violet and red-orange would look green. You'd have a lot more resolution to distinguish colors, although it would be a little confusing. Or go the other way: have visible light be green, ultraviolet be blue, x-rays be violet, infrared be yellow-orange, and microwaves be red.

That would be so trippy.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Kewangji » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:12 am UTC

addams wrote:
Sombrero Cat wrote:12 bullets. bang,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang...... That's alot of bullets at short range. What was the reason for the number of shots? Ferguson MO...

I'll answer your question with what little I know.
The number of bullets fired by Trained Police in the US is determined to a large extent by the number of bullets the gun holds.
Many are trained to empty the firearm. If it has six shells, there will be six shots. If it holds twelve, twelve shots will be fired.

I have another Random Thought.
Our voices are both a product of our environments and our genetic messages.

I have not heard my sister's voice in many years.
I thought I would never hear it again.

There are no other people in this environment.
Some dumb thing on the Internet caused me to laugh.

I heard my sister's voice.
It came out of my mouth.

How weird is that?

Holy shit. (You are a good writer, addams.)
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:56 am UTC

Thank you, Kewangji.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby bachaddict » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:52 am UTC

Magnanimous wrote:It would be cool to have a pair of glasses that can arbitrarily map incoming light to the visible spectrum. Like you could restrict your vision to 600-700 nm, and then oranges would look violet and red-orange would look green. You'd have a lot more resolution to distinguish colors, although it would be a little confusing. Or go the other way: have visible light be green, ultraviolet be blue, x-rays be violet, infrared be yellow-orange, and microwaves be red.

That would be so trippy.

That's not too far-fetched, using cameras and VR headsets.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Quercus » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:56 pm UTC

bachaddict wrote:
Magnanimous wrote:It would be cool to have a pair of glasses that can arbitrarily map incoming light to the visible spectrum. Like you could restrict your vision to 600-700 nm, and then oranges would look violet and red-orange would look green. You'd have a lot more resolution to distinguish colors, although it would be a little confusing. Or go the other way: have visible light be green, ultraviolet be blue, x-rays be violet, infrared be yellow-orange, and microwaves be red.

That would be so trippy.

That's not too far-fetched, using cameras and VR headsets.


I have an app on my phone that lets me rotate the colour wheel as seen through the camera, so that when I need to see red (as mentioned above I have a red vision deficiency), I can shift red into a region of the spectrum I can see properly. It's not that trippy (and my god is the framerate terrible - I have a sense that the code isn't exactly optimized), but it is very useful sometimes.

Edit: It also has a lot of other modes apparently (I haven't played with the settings that much till now) - including one that maps hue as brightness in a greyscale image, which looks like it should be really useful once I learn to interpret the output.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:23 pm UTC

You really need magic metamaterials
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Yakk » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:33 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
Yakk wrote:Well, not quite.

Our eyes & brain are pretty good at extracting a 3 dimensional (very) roughly linear space of color.

You can create a human color gamut (google the images, you'll get lots), and if you have a color in one region of the gamut and you mix it with a color in another region, you'll get the color half way in between (roughly).

It is true that there are colors we see that do not correspond to any pure spectrum, white being the most obvious, and some purples also being easy to see.

What makes mixing pigments really strange is not because of the human color gamut, but rather because pigments mix absorption, reflection, refraction and transparency to generate what they look like.


Yeh, pigments are complicated (and interesting - thanks for the elaboration). What I was getting is was just that the positions of the vertices in the human colour gamut are determined by biology (or at least the physics of proteins rather than the physics of light).

Also not quite!

It is determined both by the physics of proteins and light. Light, because the visible spectrum is right smack in the middle of the brightest part of The Sun's light that reaches Earth. Proteins, because what frequencies exactly they respond to is based off their structure, including the extent of the gamut (there are UV-seeing critters with different proteins).

Note that instead of seeing (A,B,C), what we see is closer to (A, B-C, B+C)1 for the response curves of proteins A, B and C. This is probably because (B-C), (B+C) gives us "better information" than (B,C), as two of our proteins have very similar response curves. And that "choice" is because of the physics of light.

Then there is also the fact we "see" differences and edges -- our visual system moves white and other colors based off of what our environment is. We can, with tricks and hacks, use this to see "super colors" -- colors that naively would be physically impossible (a "purer" red than a pure red light) through external stimuli. The easy way to pull this off is to take complementary colors, stare really hard at one, then look at the other quickly.

---

1 or something like that, I don't recall the exact details.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby ahammel » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:44 pm UTC

Angua wrote:The doctor who's 'finished' their training so at the highest position in the team in the UK.

Not sure what the term is in other areas of the world.

The attending?
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Angua » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:48 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:
Angua wrote:The doctor who's 'finished' their training so at the highest position in the team in the UK.

Not sure what the term is in other areas of the world.

The attending?

Yes
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby addams » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:04 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
ahammel wrote:
Angua wrote:The doctor who's 'finished' their training so at the highest position in the team in the UK.

Not sure what the term is in other areas of the world.

The attending?

Yes

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Quercus » Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:53 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Then there is also the fact we "see" differences and edges -- our visual system moves white and other colors based off of what our environment is. We can, with tricks and hacks, use this to see "super colors" -- colors that naively would be physically impossible (a "purer" red than a pure red light) through external stimuli. The easy way to pull this off is to take complementary colors, stare really hard at one, then look at the other quickly.


About six years ago I did a neural physiology lecture course. One of the cool things we discussed was all of the pre-processing that goes on in the eye so the brain gets sent information on differences and contrasts directly, rather than a raw image. There's lots of cross-connections going on in the eye to allow that processing to take place. I'm going to make a note to refresh my memory on that because I've forgotten all the details.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Sombrero Cat » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:17 pm UTC

So, police are trained to empty their clip in a public area? That doesn't seem right. how many shots hit him? I think the officer got pissed off after being hit in the face. Don't get me wrong, 6'5 280 is big and scary! However, he could've picked him up at another time, after the conflict ended. He could've diffused the situation, waited for back up, and picked him up at home. It was over a few cigars, not a murder suspect...I wonder what the toxicology report said. What range was he shot at? There are many unanswered questions.

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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby SurgicalSteel » Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:39 pm UTC

Sombrero Cat wrote:So, police are trained to empty their clip in a public area?
Not exactly. Police are trained, like non-LEO civilians who carry guns are, to shoot to stop the threat, which often means kill the threat. In practice this can mean emptying the magazine since the first couple times you pull the trigger and nothing happens might be the first opportunity for tunnel vision to abate and the situation to be re-assessed. It'd be nice if it was possible to take two or three shots, check your work, then take more shots if need be, but the reality of fearing for your life and the speed at which most encounters occur make that unlikely. If the officer was legitimately fearing for his life, emptying the magazine is understandable. If he was fearing for his life, it shouldn't matter how many shots he fired as long as he stopped as soon as he was able to re-assess the situation and determine that the threat was no longer imminent; if he wasn't, he shouldn't have even raised his weapon from low ready, let alone fired shot 1. Ferguson PD carries Sig Sauer P229s in .40 S&W (or at least Officer Wilson did), which have 10 and 12 round magazines. As a cop I imagine Officer Wilson carried a 12 round magazine.

Please note that everything except the last two sentences are general statements not pertaining specifically to the Ferguson, MO situation.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby FierceContinent » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:04 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I am less lucky in that regard - my red opsin has a mutation which makes it less sensitive to light and also shifted towards shorter wavelengths (a condition known as protanomaly). This makes reds dimmer than normal, and small or dim areas of red appear black or dark grey to me. Being in a field which often has red fluorescent staining in micrographs I often have to say to people "if you want me to comment on that you're going to need to change the colours, it's just a black square to me at the moment"


I believe read once that Klingons have that condition. They can't see red on black.
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Re: (F)leeting (A)nd (R)andom (T)houghts

Postby Sombrero Cat » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:25 pm UTC

Not exactly. Police are trained, like non-LEO civilians who carry guns are, to shoot to stop the threat, which often means kill the threat. In practice this can mean emptying the magazine since the first couple times you pull the trigger and nothing happens might be the first opportunity for tunnel vision to abate and the situation to be re-assessed. It'd be nice if it was possible to take two or three shots, check your work, then take more shots if need be, but the reality of fearing for your life and the speed at which most encounters occur make that unlikely. If the officer was legitimately fearing for his life, emptying the magazine is understandable. If he was fearing for his life, it shouldn't matter how many shots he fired as long as he stopped as soon as he was able to re-assess the situation and determine that the threat was no longer imminent; if he wasn't, he shouldn't have even raised his weapon from low ready, let alone fired shot 1. Ferguson PD carries Sig Sauer P229s in .40 S&W (or at least Officer Wilson did), which have 10 and 12 round magazines. As a cop I imagine Officer Wilson carried a 12 round magazine.

Please note that everything except the last two sentences are general statements not pertaining specifically to the Ferguson, MO situation.


Thank you, Surgical Steel. Your insight supports the basis for some of my questions. At what range was the young man shot? How many times was he hit? What were the results of his toxicology report? I'm trying to put myself in the officers shoes. A.45 round has a great deal of stopping power. Was the young man on PCP, or rolling a splif with the swisher papers? Angry cop or raging loon? Did the young man have a history of violence? I have the utmost appreciation for the difficult job that many police officers do. Thank you for your service. Cheers!


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