BCE and CE.

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Mega85
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BCE and CE.

Postby Mega85 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:01 pm UTC

What's with those abbreviations? The calendar is Christian based, and using those abbreviations won't change that fact. If you don't want to use BC and AD you should use a different calendar.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:06 pm UTC

Language evolves with culture, and the etymology of words and concepts doesn't have to fix their meaning forever and ever.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:17 pm UTC

"BC" saves you a letter, though.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:26 pm UTC

As even many people who trust that there was a Christ (to be before and to potentially name a year for) no longer fully trust the calculations made by Bede, et al, it is even for them perhaps more suitable to identify the era by the belief and the accepted semi-arbitrary numbering (in the case of "(Before the) Christian Era"), and it handily meshes with those that need a system regardless of belief (for "... Common Era" version).

Maybe.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Lazar » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:34 pm UTC

I'm in favor of using CE and BCE. It's always struck me as weird to compel non-Christians to recognize "the year of the Lord" in order to use what's effectively the world's universal calendar. Now there is a counterargument that we use day names like "Wednesday" or "Saturday" that are derived from extinct religions, but I'd argue that those terms have been fossilized and denuded of meaning in a way that AD and BC haven't – unless you want to take the AOL approach and suppose that those abbreviations stand for nothing. And if you're coming at it from a Christian perspective, why would you want Christ's birth reduced to a secularized verbal tic?

Then there's the fact that Christ was most likely born 4 years before Christ.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:36 pm UTC

Mega85 wrote:What's with those abbreviations? The calendar is Christian based, and using those abbreviations won't change that fact. If you don't want to use BC and AD you should use a different calendar.


People do use a different calendar. They use the "Common Era" calendar, with abbreviations BCE and CE.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:38 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:"BC" saves you a letter, though.

Writing using a + or - would save you even more letters, what's your point?
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Mega85 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:43 pm UTC

Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomi ... _numbering

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:14 pm UTC

Mega85 wrote:Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

When do we celebrate the new millenium in that system? I'm in favour of that system if it's 2000 AY.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:35 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
Mega85 wrote:Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

When do we celebrate the new millenium in that system? I'm in favour of that system if it's 2000 AY.

I veto that in favour of a system where we don't have to wait more than 980 years for the next millenial celebration.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Deva » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:45 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:I veto that in favour of a system where we don't have to wait more than 980 years for the next millenial celebration.

Proposes the Juche calendar, then. Waits only 895 years. Revolves around globally significant people and events, as a bonus. Celebrates a holiday tomorrow too (or today, depending on timezone).
Changes its form depending on the observer.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:59 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:"BC" saves you a letter, though.

Writing using a + or - would save you even more letters, what's your point?

My point is that every byte counts, therefore "BC" is clearly superior to "BCE".
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby bentheimmigrant » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:22 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:"BC" saves you a letter, though.

Writing using a + or - would save you even more letters, what's your point?

I'd be up for + & - years. Much simpler.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:27 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:My point is that every byte counts,

Why? We're not in an age where electronic storage space is particularly important anymore.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby commodorejohn » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:30 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:My point is that every byte counts,

Why? We're not in an age where electronic storage space is particularly important anymore.

That kind of thinking is what gets us 300MB PDF readers, Zohar. It's a creeping, insidious evil that infects unwary minds.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Zohar » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:33 pm UTC

I guess we'll have to disagree on that one.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby PeteP » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:34 pm UTC

Imo the long form of AD sounds kinda silly at least when you know what it means so if I had to choose I would prefer something different. But since I don't often talk about anything longer than 2k years ago I don't really have cause to add either when stating a year.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:14 am UTC

PeteP wrote:Imo the long form of AD sounds kinda silly at least when you know what it means so if I had to choose I would prefer something different. But since I don't often talk about anything longer than 2k years ago I don't really have cause to add either when stating a year.

And I bet you're not often Y2K compliant, either... ;)

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Copper Bezel » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:36 am UTC

commodorejohn wrote:
Zohar wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:My point is that every byte counts,

Why? We're not in an age where electronic storage space is particularly important anymore.

That kind of thinking is what gets us 300MB PDF readers, Zohar. It's a creeping, insidious evil that infects unwary minds.

If my PDF reader doesn't come with a cup holder, it's trash.

I like Christian/Common Era. Not only does it come with fewer assumptions, the expansions manage to each use the same language as the other, and this is a somewhat important bit of consistency to me. English or Latin would be fine, but please don't mix them.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Thu Aug 25, 2016 3:48 am UTC

Deva wrote:
Soupspoon wrote:I veto that in favour of a system where we don't have to wait more than 980 years for the next millenial celebration.

Proposes the Juche calendar, then. Waits only 895 years. Revolves around globally significant people and events, as a bonus. Celebrates a holiday tomorrow too (or today, depending on timezone).


It just so happens that it is 2769 AUC, which leaves 231 years to the fourth Roman millennium (or 224 years to the seventh Hebrew millennium).

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby strake » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:34 am UTC

Sometimes i use Anno Unicis, i.e. years since Unix epoch.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby CharlieP » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:01 am UTC

Flumble wrote:
Mega85 wrote:Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

When do we celebrate the new millenium in that system? I'm in favour of that system if it's 2000 AY.


I'm certainly not. xx01-01-01 is neat and elegant, xx00-01-01 just looks horrible.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:23 am UTC

CharlieP wrote:
Flumble wrote:
Mega85 wrote:Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

When do we celebrate the new millenium in that system? I'm in favour of that system if it's 2000 AY.


I'm certainly not. xx01-01-01 is neat and elegant, xx00-01-01 just looks horrible.

On the other hand, xx00-00-00 looks wonderful! Let us transition fully to zero-rooted counting arrays and make it easier for our robot overlords the new aesthetic...

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby HES » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:31 am UTC

00-00-xx00

:twisted:
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:39 am UTC

HES wrote:00-00-xx00

:twisted:


Code: Select all

00-00-xx00
^^ ^^ ^^^^
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Mega85 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:09 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:
Mega85 wrote:Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

When do we celebrate the new millenium in that system? I'm in favour of that system if it's 2000 AY.


Astronomical year numbering:

1st millennium from 0 to 99
2nd millennium from 1000 to 1999
3rd millennium from 2000 to 2999

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Zohar » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:24 pm UTC

What happens between 100-999?
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:28 pm UTC

They've been reserved for past expansion.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby CharlieP » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:30 pm UTC

Mega85 wrote:
Flumble wrote:
Mega85 wrote:Maybe we should adopt the astronomical year numbering. That includes a year zero and requires no abbreviations.

When do we celebrate the new millenium in that system? I'm in favour of that system if it's 2000 AY.


Astronomical year numbering:

1st millennium from 0 to 99
2nd millennium from 1000 to 1999
3rd millennium from 2000 to 2999


So what comes before the 1st millennium? The 0th millennium, being the years -1000 to -1? Is the -1st millennium the years -2000 to -1001?

At least the traditional grouping is consistent, even if the majority of the public seemingly can't get their heads around it.
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:56 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:What happens between 100-999?

Get with the times. And by times, I mean chronology. And by chronology, I mean The New Chronology.

Spoiler:
They never happened.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby New User » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:19 pm UTC

Let's just use CE and BCE for a few years, or a few decades, long enough for it to become the new "standard", and then change it to something else. Let's make things as confusing as possible for future historians.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:19 pm UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
Zohar wrote:What happens between 100-999?

Get with the times. And by times, I mean chronology. And by chronology, I mean The New Chronology.

Spoiler:
They never happened.


This is one of my favorite crackpot theories.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby JudeMorrigan » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:19 pm UTC

We could go with the nearest analog to what was most commonly actually used in ancient Rome and identify the year by the political leaders who were in office.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Mega85 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:20 pm UTC

Why do people think AD stands for "after death"? Don't they forget about those years that Jesus was alive before his death?

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Deva » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:41 pm UTC

Expects an English phrase. Knows "Before Christ". Ought to reverse it, similar to signs. Assumes something like "After Christ". What is close and starts with 'D'? "After Death".
Changes its form depending on the observer.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby teelo » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:43 pm UTC

Lets just overcomplicate the issue by measuring years from Epoch.

BCE can mean Before Counting Epoch
AD can mean Analogue Digital

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby commodorejohn » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:12 pm UTC

teelo wrote:Lets just overcomplicate the issue by measuring years from Epoch.

BCE can mean Before Counting Epoch
AD can mean Analogue Digital

But which epoch? Unix or VMS?
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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby teelo » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:55 am UTC

commodorejohn wrote:
teelo wrote:Lets just overcomplicate the issue by measuring years from Epoch.

BCE can mean Before Counting Epoch
AD can mean Analogue Digital

But which epoch? Unix or VMS?
Turns out neither. It's just an arbitrary date time I plucked out of nowhere just to incite mass confusion.

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:25 am UTC

I've always thought that the term "Common Era" sounds stupid. I realize that the term has roots and I get what it's vaguely trying to say, but it still sounds stupid to me in modern context.


Proposal that we restart in former-2017 as year one of the Uncommon Era.

This era probably shouldn't last particularly long, however.

Edit: Or maybe since BCE goes backwards, and CE goes forward, maybe Uncommon should go backwards again? But then where do we start from?

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Re: BCE and CE.

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:15 am UTC

Nah, the uncommon era should start going up the imaginary axis.
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