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Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:05 pm UTC
by TvT Rivals
So... who besides us is/was on Tv Tropes, or a different tropes wiki?

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:11 pm UTC
by flicky1991
I am definitely not the only person here who uses TV Tropes.

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:40 pm UTC
by Weeks
I personally don't know of anyone who'd ever use the TvTropes.org site to do the "web-browsing" thing.

Do you have any other inquiries?

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:08 pm UTC
by New User
Posting in troll thread.

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:23 pm UTC
by SecondTalon
Pretty sure the question is "Who is/was on the social part of TvTropes" and not "Who's been stuck in a TropeHole?"

So, y'know, don't be dicks. It's a cromulent question.

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:18 pm UTC
by Weeks
SecondTalon wrote:"Who is/was on the social part of TvTropes"
Oh.

Then I did wander into it a couple of times, but never posted anything.

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:58 am UTC
by TvT Rivals
<sincerityMode=on>Y'know, we actually were serious about this. Sorry if our silly title made you think otherwise.

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:36 am UTC
by Weeks
So what exactly do you mean by a "better troper wiki"? Is this improving on the existing one, or are you building a separate entity, or something else? And why?

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:09 am UTC
by TvT Rivals
Originally, we would've been content with improving Tv Tropes as it is. But after some of us got banned by Fast Eddie, you know how he is, and we found there was a site rip of the wiki, we started working on it... long story short, this fall we want to launch it.

See also this thread (one idea we implemented, similar as Randall's Robot9000 concept - thanks BTW), this page (with many screenshots) and this discussion (with the other rivals of Tv Tropes).

Yes, we're REALLY fascinated by troping. (Also, originally we had thought this would be easier and could be finished in a few months.)

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:29 am UTC
by Soupspoon
TvT Rivals wrote:(Also, originally we had thought this would be easier and could be finished in a few months.)

ObComic... https://xkcd.com/349/ ;)

Sounds interesting, what you're trying to do. I'm a browser-only of TVTropes and know nothing of the politics (or even any named person, other than "this troper"). I think you've got a project-and-a-half on your hands. Or more, back-office mechanisms for the relational database, etc, and ensuring the ripped/re-authored data is properly re-represented upon it. If you make the one simple, it will be because the other will have needed all the more effort to accomodate that.

Definitely watching with interest. I know the 'joys' of essentially building a CMS from the ground up...

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:47 am UTC
by TvT Rivals
A whole CMS? Yes, that's an impressive task too. - Is it somewhere online, or is it for your employer, so you mustn't reveal anything?

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:19 am UTC
by Soupspoon
TvT Rivals wrote:A whole CMS? Yes, that's an impressive task too. - Is it somewhere online, or is it for your employer, so you mustn't reveal anything?

It's not in use at the moment. I wrote it as a dynamic back-end to a site for a group that I didn't want to have to teach the other people too much HTML/cross-page theme-consistency for.

To be honest, this was before I'd heard of the term "CMS", but it essentially was one, even as I reinvented wheels (also not known at that time as CMSes) I'd happened to have seen others write and use themselves.

Some details... If bothered.
Spoiler:
Template .html (also .css, after a small rewrite to catch up with latest good practice) defined in one place. Had bits like "%TITLE%", "%NAVBAR%" and "%CONTENTS%" in appropriate parts of that template. A page 'directory' (.csv) defined and pointed at various Content pages in basic sub-<BODY> HTML, but with a few more %TAGGED% imperatives for special uses (like embedded images, intending to make it that part foolproof for others).

My basic Perl script backend thus served all pages asked ofnthe site by checking the actual called URI for the page the user thought she was getting staticly (could also handle the differentiation necessary if I had multiple domains pointing at the same hosting space for different purposes, but never did use that in anger), and ensuring a valid Directory entry (or custom 404ed/adjusted/30whatevered the reply), followed the Directory details to load in the appropriate Content, thenrecursively resolving all %TAG%s along the way until there were no such directives left to follow.

i. e. as well as putting the obviously dynamic 'centre page' option, it added the perfectly accurate Navbar (expanded with details of all Directory-listed pages indicated in there as permanently visible, plus the branch containing the potentially obscure page we were now on and any sub-pages of our current page that were available and not counterindicated as to be kept hidden) in its own Tag area. Then there was the "now and upcoming" calendar array (a custom-markuped page was the source for that mimi version and the full calendar page) on the opposite margin that got created upon the fly to show this and the next two months of events, and it also grabbed weather data from an external site to <MARQUEE> along the bottom (tacky and retro, I know, but it did the job as long).

For Gallery pages (marked specially in the Directory list) it sought all images (e.g. image.jpg) appropriate to that version of the page, presented the (separately created, rather than automatic on-server as is done these days) image.thumb.jpg as a minilink to the main image file, subtitled that with the comment and date info stored in the image.txt (and the actual size ofnthe destination file, for the sake of Dial-Up users), sorted and arrayed howsoever the called page saw fit (e.g. "by date, descending, four columns, second page of twenty images"). Though that's done so much easier, apparently, these days with Reactive HTML methods, I hear..

The News Items pages did something similar with 'news snippets' filelets (ordering, annotating, summarising, adding 'source' info, but I did that with a %TAG(foo)% thing rather than Directory guided, because I'd hacked that feature in first and come at the galleries from a different direction later on. Still, worked Ok and the code for both was brief enough, so if it aint broke...

I ended up doing most of the administration myself, in the end, manually uploading the added/altered filegsnippets straight into their homes with FTP (and also any updates to the backend script that I'd tested on my home machine), so the 'live' editing feature never really got used enough to refine it into anything useful, like a Wiki-editing engine. Realistically, I could just have just scripted the creation of all the static pages, offline, then uploaded these as a regular static site (at least before the image-sorting, possibly the calendar could have been <IFRAME>ed from a mini CGI, and the weather-marquee definitely would have been) with consistent and accurate sidebar because they'd all been created from scratch even after each page-tree alteration had been made necessary. But the dream was always to let several others add bits and pieces. With me at hand just to keep the look basic and clean, not YvettesBridalFormal-like..


I might be able to find the script, if I dig down a bit (the domain and hosting having long since expired after it was no longer necessary to maintain), but I'm betting it'd currently be little more than a curiosity. It is/was Perl, not PHP, so may not even be to a given class of modern developer's easy understanding.

And you're way past needing the inspiration of my ancient script, from what I quickly glanced at of your site screenshots, earlier. (Mostly the thumbnails. I have the time to write the above, but I didn't then have time to look that much more closely. ;) )

Re: Tropers troping tropes

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:18 am UTC
by TvT Rivals
Yes, that was quite some project you did. You don't have to dig it out, but it was quite interesting to hear about it.

Reactive HTML... yes, thanks to the new developments in HTML5, CSS and jQuery, there's a lot of new possibilities nowadays (esp. the latter - without jQuery, many of our ideas wouldn't have worked).

Even so: Chopping apart the old pages from Tv Tropes was much more work than writing the wiki software. Your guess with this was correct.

PS: Please pass on the message of our new wiki, here or elsewhere, to anyone who might be interested. A wiki without users/readers would be quite useless after all.