Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

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Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Yes, undeniably
6
8%
Yes, but only a select few have what it takes
39
50%
Yes, but only me
6
8%
No, but it's only because they're always busy playing WoW
5
6%
No, but I'm watching my back from now on.
1
1%
No, not even close
9
12%
Otter/Duck
12
15%
 
Total votes: 78

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Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Aluminus » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:13 pm UTC

I hope that Geek is the right term, but given the following assumptions:

1. Geeks are often attracted to Martial Arts
2. Geeks are often attracted to INTENSE Action movies
3. Geeks are skilled in the physics and mathematics of Close-Range Shoot-outs
4. Geeks have (or wish they had) the patience and clear focus required for making the hit.

So, do you think that Geeks make effective assassins?

EDIT: Fixed spelling and added Otter/Duck option as per Moo:
Moo wrote:[important] I have decided that we, as a community, must start using and spreading the use of the terms otter and duck to mean whichever one of the other terms you prefer and apply to yourself. Using the power of the tubes we will make this a reality. My preferred label is now otter.[/important]

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:52 pm UTC

Only me, because I'm awesome.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby My Uncivilized God » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:55 pm UTC

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Sprocket » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:05 pm UTC

Aluminus wrote:I hope that Geek is the right term, but given the following assumptions:

1. Geeks are often attracted to Martial Arts
2. Geeks are often attracted to INTENSE Action movies

Is this even true? I would think geeks like COMPLEX action movies. Interesting plot, fun gadgets, smart stuff happening and good jokes. Maybe even ones that end up being more comedy than action. I think movies such as Sneakers, defined me as a geek before the possibility of being a Geek in the modern sense even really existed.

I would love to get some badass assassin training.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby MoonBuggy » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:05 pm UTC

For some reason this topic just made me think of Moss and Roy from The IT Crowd trying to lie their way into a victims building. I voted no.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:17 pm UTC

Sneakers was awesome! Robert Redford is awesome. Geeks can be assassins but only a select few have what it takes.

And lightning quick reflexes is not really involved in balancing a katana on your finger unless you're *catching* it that way.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Aluminus » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:16 pm UTC

My, catching the sharp edge of a katana with one finger would definately count as lightning quick reflexes. *Conjures up scenario where Mr. Stallman would have to catch a sword with one finger*

When I think geek assassins, that episode of MythBusters comes to mind, when they have to sneak in and steal the loot, that and add in Jamie's batman-esque grapple winch and Adam's suction cup shoes. Does Grant Imahara count as an assassin if he builds a robot to do the hard work for him?
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby evilbeanfiend » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:23 pm UTC

geeks make good bond style villains with all the gadgets + laser beams and stuff. however we all know that bond villains are useless assassins since they always leave bond to die, only to allow him to implausibly escape some how :. geeks do not make good assassins.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Belial » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:29 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:And lightning quick reflexes is not really involved in balancing a katana on your finger unless you're *catching* it that way.


Also, as he's clearly finding the balancing point of the sword, I wonder if he's thinking "Shouldn't this be balanced six inches ---> that way?"
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Gunfingers » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:39 pm UTC

Oh good, i'm not crazy.

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:45 pm UTC

Aluminus wrote:1. Geeks are often attracted to Martial Arts
2. Geeks are often attracted to INTENSE Action movies
3. Geeks are skilled in the physics and mathematics of Close-Range Shoot-outs
4. Geeks have (or wish they had) the patience and clear focus required for making the hit.


Disregarding the fallacy of #2 (Action Movies =/= Real Life. Not even close); Attracted to Martial Arts and Action Movies does not mean skill in violence, stealth, and/or killing.

Hell, a guy skilled at sneaking up on someone and kicking their ass wouldn't necessarily make a good assassin, as there is a difference between beating someone into a coma, and actually knowing 100% beyond a doubt that you just killed the person.

Geeks are also attracted to strong moral systems. See: Star Trek, Star Wars, and so on. A lot of sci-fi is written from the viewpoint of attempting to bridge gaps of understanding with alien species who simply do things different ways. Sure, there's also stuff written about blasting them into oblivion, but even then it's not done to the full extent that it should be done (That is, if you're at war with an alien race, you know where their homeworld is, and you've got access to faster than light engines... strap those to an asteroid, fire it at their planet, problem solved. Screw dogfighting with one-man fighters.) with the assumption being that in the future, there will be peace between the Humans and the Klgha-dla'dar of Ortega Alpha 9B or whatever.

Just because I understand angles and know exactly where I need to bank the ball to hit the other balls and make them go into the holes doesn't make me good at pool. I know what I need to make the cue ball do.. I just don't know how. Same thing with knowing the physics of a shootout.. doesn't matter if you can't aim.

So.. no, I'd think that a geek wouldn't make a better assassin than a baker or a postman. A sociopath, however...
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby malarkie » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:05 pm UTC

Yes, but only some. Becase of SecondTalons reasons forthe moral system. But like any other group, there are the wierd ones who won't care. Add to that the fact that geeks and nerds know how to make explosives and crazy death-machines, they wouldn't really have to gun-fight or fist-fight.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby scowdich » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:12 pm UTC

I feel I would make an effective assassin, but my style would be far too distinct.

"Well, detective, it looks like the victim was electrocuted by these bare wires on the floor here. And then, um, stabbed 16 times."

In other words, I get the feeling the typical geek would try to orchestrate far too elaborate a hit for it to actually be effective.

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:16 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:So.. no, I'd think that a geek wouldn't make a better assassin than a baker or a postman. A sociopath, however...

Well, not a baker. Obviously.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:17 pm UTC

I think assassins, being highly specialized, would need to be geeks in some form or other. Perhaps they do not fit in with the definition being used here - basically interchangeable with nerds or dorks - but a particular assassin could be a connoisseur of guns, or a specialist in knives, or having a wicked knowledge of poisons.

However, as pointed out above, not all geeks would make good assassins - it probably takes a particular sort of personality or set of circumstances to make someone into an assassin - so I picked yes, but only some have what it takes.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Seven » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:23 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:Sneakers was awesome!
...but they didn't kill anybody, did they? They only stole something. Good movie. One of River Phoenix's last... :cry:

I voted Otter/Duck. However, I think we should all watch our backs from now on. The Geeks who DO have what it takes will be the most inconspicuous and innocent-looking ones......
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby TiberiusM » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:30 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Just because I understand angles and know exactly where I need to bank the ball to hit the other balls and make them go into the holes doesn't make me good at pool. I know what I need to make the cue ball do.. I just don't know how. Same thing with knowing the physics of a shootout.. doesn't matter if you can't aim.


But...but...River Tam! She even did it with her eyes closed!

However, I'm thinking probably not (but maybe!), as theres probably a lot more to off'ing someone than just action movies, geometry, and physics. I used to think Ihad a chance at being a scout sniper for the marines or tactical marksman for a SWAT team somewhere, as I'm sneaky, used* to be good at survival training and such, and was a fairly good shot. But instead of going into the marines, my parents made me go to college, so that dream died :( Would I be a good assassin? Probably not.

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby podbaydoor » Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:38 pm UTC

There's always that "oh shit, I'm snuffing people's lives out" aspect. I think I'd make a good assassin if I had training...except I'd be way too squeamish to actually kill a living human being.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:12 pm UTC

TiberiusM wrote:But...but...River Tam! She even did it with her eyes closed!

However, I'm thinking probably not (but maybe!), as theres probably a lot more to off'ing someone than just action movies, geometry, and physics. I used to think Ihad a chance at being a scout sniper for the marines or tactical marksman for a SWAT team somewhere, as I'm sneaky, used* to be good at survival training and such, and was a fairly good shot. But instead of going into the marines, my parents made me go to college, so that dream died :( Would I be a good assassin? Probably not.


TV =/= Reality! Don't make me smack you with a trout!

Anyway, how many things have you killed, especially at close range? Shot a creature you cared about, like a family animal that got hit by a car/torn apart by some wild critter and you know the only thing a vet can do is put them to sleep, so you might as well save everyone the time by just firing the shot straight into it's braincase right there?
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby TiberiusM » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:16 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
TiberiusM wrote:But...but...River Tam! She even did it with her eyes closed!

However, I'm thinking probably not (but maybe!), as theres probably a lot more to off'ing someone than just action movies, geometry, and physics. I used to think Ihad a chance at being a scout sniper for the marines or tactical marksman for a SWAT team somewhere, as I'm sneaky, used* to be good at survival training and such, and was a fairly good shot. But instead of going into the marines, my parents made me go to college, so that dream died :( Would I be a good assassin? Probably not.


TV =/= Reality! Don't make me smack you with a trout!

Anyway, how many things have you killed, especially at close range? Shot a creature you cared about, like a family animal that got hit by a car/torn apart by some wild critter and you know the only thing a vet can do is put them to sleep, so you might as well save everyone the time by just firing the shot straight into it's braincase right there?

Biggest thing I've taken down was a deer. Hit it at about 50 yards with a slug, had to end it with a .22 up close. Never a family animal though, but then again, as a hitman, I don't plan on getting too attached to my targets. Also, River Tam could so do that in real life.

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Master Gunner » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:55 pm UTC

I think we can easily come to the conclusion that: All (good) assassins would make good geeks, but not all geeks would make good assassins.
While the mental aspect of the two "professions" are similar (broad range of technical knowledge, single-minded devotion to a single task), there are the physical aspects that one also needs to consider (ignoring the ability to actually pull the trigger, as one can never know for sure until they are placed in such a situation). Geeks that spend most of their waking hours in front of a computer (e.g. me), would obviously not be capable at all of been an assassin, as we just don't meet the physical requirements. Even those geeks that aren't as sedentary as I am still might not be capable of the physical duress and discipline needed. So while there may well be an overlap between the two groups (geeks and people who would make good assassins), and it may be a larger overlap than with some other types of people, it would not by any means be statistically significant. Geeks are Geeks, not assassins.

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:10 am UTC

I hope you're not suggesting a sociopath would make a good assassin... because they definitely wouldn't.. :-/
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Verator » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:05 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:I hope you're not suggesting a sociopath would make a good assassin... because they definitely wouldn't.. :-/


Yeah, sociopaths = bad assassins. They're too insane. You need a highly intelligent individual who's apathetic about humanity and has a cold detached calculating mind, you know, those geeks in high school who planned intricately how they could eliminate the entire population of the school of 3,000 students with 18 guns and 9 people, by using the dividers to segregate the school into the 3 sections with the 3 teams of 3 converging from the only 3 exits for each wing, using the janitorial keys to lock the population into the school. Then, turning on all of the gas lines, to fill the school with propane and natural gas, and then after the school is contained, exiting to a central location after a remote explosive has been placed in the chem labs, then retreating out through the back theater and setting off the explosive, launching an enormous fireball through the school and collapsing the poorly designed higher levels upon the lower levels, trapping the people in the bottom with no hope of escape, and trapping the upper floors without them being able to retreat to lower levels. Meanwhile, you have the students stand with long-range rifles at 6 specific points around the building picking off the few who manage to escape through windows.

I mean, umm, I'm not one of those people, honest. Geeks make bad assassins.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby El Capitan » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:45 am UTC

not assassins, more like masterminds

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby TiberiusM » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:31 pm UTC

Verator wrote:Detailed plans for hypothetical massacre.

I mean, umm, I'm not one of those people, honest. Geeks make bad assassins.

I haven't done this either (in fact, I think almost all guys don't think this through at least once while in high school). My plans (that I obviously never came up with) were a tad cleaner, as I didn't (completely) destroy the building, and I made sure I took into account police response. Ah high school, how I hated thee.

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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:36 pm UTC

Do Llamas Make Effective Condoms?

The answers are surprisingly similar.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Belial » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:38 pm UTC

Yeah, sociopaths = bad assassins. They're too insane. You need a highly intelligent individual who's apathetic about humanity and has a cold detached calculating mind


You mean a sociopath?

Because that's what you're describing. A sociopath is generally defined by a total lack of empathy toward other living beings. The most notable ones are generally pretty calm and intelligent, they just also sometimes murder people quietly and keep them in their basements.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:42 pm UTC

I think he's confusing sociopath with psychopath.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Verator » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:44 am UTC

Somewhat, but see, sociopaths revile humanity, they're not apathetic about it. Most of the time, they revile it so much that they'd make horrible assassins, because it would be impossible to hire one, as they hate all other humans. Sociopaths usually turn into serial killers, and are therefore ineffective assassins. They have no real desire for money or personal hierarchal increase in the general society, so therefore they can't be hired, which makes them worthless as assassins. Think a geek that's been turned into a soldier, and sent to the worst part of the world, until he's completely numb to everything around him, but still a genius. Then he hires himself out so that he can get tons of money and do the only thing he knows how to left, kill, and kill right.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:34 am UTC

A sociopath, essentially, is someone who doesn't understand that those around him or her are also thinking human beings. They live alone, surrounded by walking, talking dolls. Doesn't matter if they hurt one or kill one, because they don't matter anyway.

Assuming one could focus, they would make a very effective assassin, as it'd be the same emotional impact of stabbing a stuffed animal or shooting a Barbie doll.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Torvaun » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:38 am UTC

Geeks could make excellent assassins. The skill set and discipline used by martial artists is not so different from the skill set and discipline used by sharpshooters. Stereotypically, geeks have problems meshing with society, which is practically a psychological petri dish for growing sociopathic tendencies. If you do not see yourself as part of a group, it will cause you less distress to cause bad things to happen to that group. Engineering geeks could certainly develop a never-before seen form-factor for a weapon, making it much easier to take into a secured area. Electronics geeks can often understand the workings of many of the security mechanisms they might encounter, and therefore defeat them. I fall into this group, and I can certainly open some keypad locks with 5 minutes, a multitool, and a wire. Even music geeks can do the 'machine gun in a violin case' thing.

The most important thing, most geeks are capable of planning for various contingencies. We are capable of looking at things like "If I get wounded, how do I prevent leaving behind DNA evidence? Ah, I'll use a light to check for blood, swab it up, then mist the room with ammonia to destroy residual DNA chains." Geeks will know ahead of time where people are expected to be during their hit, what the paths are going in, what the paths are going out, etc. And, if all else fails, and the police are left with security footage or a witness, even your next-door neighbor won't recognize you on the police sketch because they've never actually seen you. Because you're a basement-dweller that fears the daystar.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:41 am UTC

Despite what CSI would have you believe, DNA evidence only matters AFTER they've caught you. Not before. And while it's useful, if they've caught you, it's because you were far sloppier than just shedding a couple of hairs or bleeding on something.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Verator » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:42 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Despite what CSI would have you believe, DNA evidence only matters AFTER they've caught you. Not before. And while it's useful, if they've caught you, it's because you were far sloppier than just shedding a couple of hairs or bleeding on something.


Unless you're already on the FBI/ CIA/ NSA DNA lists and you're wanted for a major killing of a VIP.
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:56 am UTC

If that's the case, you long ago fucked up. And should be retired in Aruba or something.
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Torvaun
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Re: Do Geeks Make Effective Assassins?

Postby Torvaun » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:08 am UTC

Nah, but I left DNA behind on some other job too. The more deaths they can link to me, the better chance they have of beating the bell curve and catching me. Err. If I were a geeky assassin.
Hawknc wrote:I don't know if you've never heard of trolling, or if you're just very good at it.


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