Splitting Sides

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Shrewtality
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Splitting Sides

Postby Shrewtality » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 am UTC

First a little background.

I'm 18, 5'6" and overwhelmingly out of shape (and extremely skinny at 121 pounds, despite the fact that I eat ALOT).
I used to play WoW a lot and thusly sat around a lot (successfully quit before college). I probably haven't exercised since gym in 7th grade, (I'm a freshman in college now).

So I want to get in shape.
Why so suddenly you ask?

Recently I met a girl in our university's computer science undergrad lab and I ended up helping her a bit on some project she was working on. Afterwards we hung out a little bit and we both enjoyed each other's company. In doing so I found out that she was on a scholarship to our school for being on the track/cross country team. Christmas break has started and she went home for the holidays and when we go back in January I want to ask her out. So I've decided that I can't possibly date someone on the track team and not be able to climb a flight of stairs without breathing hard.

So in an attempt to get in shape I've begun running around my neighborhood in a circular fashion (Today is my second day on this crusade). I've come across some problems though. Only through a light jog and about 15 seconds, my sides overwhelmingly hurt (a couple inches left and right of the belly button). Today was better than the first time (yesterday) atleast where my head began spinning and I had to sit down intermitently. Admittedly I had to do ALOT more walking than I could spend jogging.

My question to you all is if there any helpful tips or tricks that would aid me in my attempt to become fit starting from such a pathetic state. I feel there must be someone here who has attempted such a transformation. Anything from eating foods that would help to good exercises that you have had success with would be much appreciated.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Habanero » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:05 am UTC

Running is really good for aerobic stuff. It's good for the heart and it is good for the lungs. It can be a rough place to start.

It doesn't do much for getting "hunky". It may cause an unused diaphragm to protest by causing you a little bit of pain. There are a few other muscles that may cause you pain as well.

I think that rowing is a good choice. It has great aerobic benefits and also adds a whole bunch of upper body muscle conditioning. It even adds some leg stuff. Pace yourself and think about going long distances. Don't get carried away and you are less likely to hurt yourself.

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Last edited by Habanero on Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:16 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Felgraf » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:08 am UTC

STRETCH. Stretch stretch <i> stretch </i>.

Stretching before you exercise is good. It makes you cramp less, makes you less likely to tear a muscle, and just makes you more flexible overall.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby bluebambue » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:13 am UTC

I'm sure you've already heard this, but be sure to keep hydrated. It actually does help a lot. Also, be sure to wear shoes with some arch support so you don't kill your knees and back.

I don't really have any experience with exercizing from such a state. I would say don't push yourself too hard at first so as to not get injuries, consult a doctor (maybe), and good job for wanting to get in some shape! I also think some variety in exercizes (such as crunches and push ups) should also be employed.

good luck!

edit: on stretching, I also recomend stetching after you exercise because your muscles will be warmed up, they will stretch farther, and make it easier for you to stretch before you exercise.
Last edited by bluebambue on Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:15 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby ZeroSum » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:13 am UTC

Consistency above all else. Eat and drink right. Run and stretch. Endurance is more important than maximum strength. See if you can adhere to the Seal PT Schedule.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Aglet » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:22 am UTC

Sometimes I'll get these splitting pains that feel like they're just underneath one side of my ribcage. Apparently, these are diaphragm cramps, or side stitches. I guess not eating the hour before you run and taking deep breaths helps. I haven't tried it, since I haven't exercised in... uhh... a while, but it's worth a shot.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Habanero » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:23 am UTC

I hope you are not getting responses from all of those that were disposed toward athletics from birth. Some of us were pretty much worthless in the gym and the sports fields during our youth. Ok, you are still in your youth, but I digress.

The transformation you refer to can be acheived. It will most likely take a gradual change. It sounds like you have had little in the way of, uhhh, dramatic physical exertion? That's ok. Anyone can start from anywhere.

Keep your exercizes smooth and do not get carried away. Balance aerobic and muscle building stuff and you'll be all right.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Shrewtality » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:29 am UTC

ZeroSum wrote:Consistency above all else. Eat and drink right. Run and stretch. Endurance is more important than maximum strength. See if you can adhere to the Seal PT Schedule.


I doubt I could following the Seal PT workout as it suggests for the less fit person to run 2 miles/day for weeks 1/2. Half a mile around my neighborhood and I couldn't see straight :S.

So running may or may not be a good place to start. (I'm still breathing abnormally from getting back earlier) Although I'm not sure where I could find a place to row.

So stretching is good, I will try to stretch before and after, I'll have to find some guidelines of what is good to stretch and how.

As for being hydrated- is gatorade good for hydration, I know that they advertise that it is, but would just water be better?


Aglet wrote:Sometimes I'll get these splitting pains that feel like they're just
underneath one side of my ribcage. Apparently, these are diaphragm
cramps, or side stitches. I guess not eating the hour before you run
and taking deep breaths helps. I haven't tried it, since I haven't
exercised in... uhh... a while, but it's worth a shot.


Ah hm, I did eat dinner before I went running, I thought I might need the energy or something. But I guess that doesn't work out if it makes your sides hurt enough to not be able to continue.

Thanks for the help, I will have to start slow, but I hope to make it in the end. I will try to update my progress as I go.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby jmrz » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:32 am UTC

This is coming from someone who is in pretty much the same physical state as you are. The most exercise I ever get is that that invovles being in bed with someone else. Give me a pair of running shoes and tell me to be back in an hour and I'd probably collapse after 10minutes of running. Despite the fact I am tiny, I am incredibly unfit. I would suggest that you try walking first. Not the slow "oh I will just wander over here" but brisk walking. As if you are kind of in a hurry to go someplace. Build to jogging and then running and you could possibly start with walking, then some slow jogging and then walking on the way back home.

I wouldn't just jump straight into running because you are likely to injure yourself.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Habanero » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:38 am UTC

Shrewtality wrote:As for being hydrated- is gatorade good for hydration, I know that they advertise that it is, but would just water be better?
As far as I can tell, it adds pottassium. Yup, that's about it. It has some sweetener in it and some kind of flavorant. Not much more. Pottassium tends to help avoid cramps.

Hopefully they won't assault me with any libel or slander lawsuit. I'm curious. In a discussion forum, is this "written" or "spoken"? Please don't use me as a test of the law.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Shrewtality » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:43 am UTC

Habanero wrote:
Shrewtality wrote:As for being hydrated- is gatorade good for hydration, I know that they advertise that it is, but would just water be better?
As far as I can tell, it adds pottassium. Yup, that's about it. It has some sweetener in it and some kind of flavorant. Not much more. Pottassium tends to help avoid cramps.

Hopefully they won't assault me with any libel or slander lawsuit. I'm curious. In a discussion forum, is this "written" or "spoken"? Please don't use me as a test of the law.


Alright thats good, because I already bought a 24-pack of gatorade.

Also I guess I should mention that I have/had Osgood-Schlatter disease

( http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/genera ... sgood.html )

I didn't really do any of the sports they mention, but I did ALOT of jumping on a trampoline as a kid which probably led to it. I haven't had one since about 6th grade or so though.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby ZeroSum » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:37 am UTC

Shrewtality wrote:
ZeroSum wrote:Consistency above all else. Eat and drink right. Run and stretch. Endurance is more important than maximum strength. See if you can adhere to the Seal PT Schedule.


I doubt I could following the Seal PT workout as it suggests for the less fit person to run 2 miles/day for weeks 1/2. Half a mile around my neighborhood and I couldn't see straight :S.
Some of the 30-some-year-olds at my company who haven't seen exercise in years decided to try out the 5k. They scored a 12-or-so minute pace for it. So, basically, do two weeks on, one week off, of 2 miles MWF at whatever pace you can manage so long as you keep jogging until you can score 8:30.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Vellyr » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:44 am UTC

5'6, 121 doesn't sound that unhealthy to me, not being able to run for 10 minutes might be a bad thing though. I was in a similar situation, I've never considered myself scrawny but I've always been pretty slim (currently 5'10 135). You've mentioned running, but are you doing any lifting? Hopefully your college has a rec center where you can do this. You don't necessarily have to be aerobically fit to lift, and lifting is the most important thing to do if you want to gain weight (lifting and aerobic exercise are ideal however). I would recommend getting a workout plan off of menshealth.com or somewhere and giving it a go.

What I've found really important to remember when lifting is to plan ahead and eat a high-energy meal with a lot of carbs and some protein (pasta with meat, sushi, peanut butter sandwich, etc) well before you go to the gym so that you'll have enough energy for the workout. This is especially important if you aren't particularly fit, since your body is less efficient.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Hawknc » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:48 am UTC

jmrz wrote:This is coming from someone who is in pretty much the same physical state as you are. The most exercise I ever get is that that invovles being in bed with someone else. Give me a pair of running shoes and tell me to be back in an hour and I'd probably collapse after 10minutes of running. Despite the fact I am tiny, I am incredibly unfit. I would suggest that you try walking first. Not the slow "oh I will just wander over here" but brisk walking. As if you are kind of in a hurry to go someplace. Build to jogging and then running and you could possibly start with walking, then some slow jogging and then walking on the way back home.

I wouldn't just jump straight into running because you are likely to injure yourself.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby joeframbach » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:07 am UTC

I was 5'10" 121 in 9th grade, and at that age I was pretty out of shape. I could run a 5k in 24 minutes.
When I was 19, I was 6'2" 155lbs, and I ran a 5k in 17:30.

From years of experience, I can tell you this: STREEEEEEETCH. Here's a good one I just took a picture of myself doing:Image

An important thing about stretching: hold the stretch for at least 12 seconds, and don't rock back and forth in order to stretch further. Some people, when trying to reach their toes, will rock their back back and forth, gain momentum, reach their toes, and rip something important.

Also, screw Gatorade. If you're going to drink it, don't drink it when you don't need to. Drink it after you run, not before. If you're going to run consistently for an hour, go ahead and have one. If you're running for 15 minutes, take half a bottle and mix is half-and-half with water. Eat a banana for your potassium.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Nullcline » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:10 am UTC

Gatorade is pretty much just water and potassium, but it does have some salts, too. Unless you're working out for more than 1 or 2 hours per day, it really isn't necessary. It can't hurt, though. I don't really work out at all anymore and I still go through 2 or 3 gallons a day. :D Any benefits you get from it you get when it is diluted to about 2/3 strength, so if you want to save some money... Also, buy the powder.

Make sure you warm up well. I would suggest jump-rope for about 10 minutes in a warm room(just enough to break a sweat.) Then stretch, then run. Don't try to do too much at first, but make sure you do it as early in the day as possible. Also, make sure you cool down afterwards by walking at a normal pace for a few hundred yards, or by jumping rope for a few more minutes.

Are you doing pushups or crunches? You should do a few. And squats and toe-lifts. Do this after you first cool-down and then have another cool down after that.


Shrewtality wrote:Also I guess I should mention that I have/had Osgood-Schlatter disease.
At least that goes away with time. I have tendonitis in my wrists so bad that I have chosen to do pushups on my knuckles on pavement rather than watch tendons in my wrists swell to the size of golf balls. Added bonus: I looks hardcore.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby joeframbach » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:22 am UTC

Nullcline wrote:Are you doing pushups or crunches? You should do a few. And squats and toe-lifts.

I highly recommend Abs Of Steel.
Highly, highly recommend.
However there is one problem I have with it. They do not stress enough that you work out your back as well.
If you work out one side of your body, ALWAYS work out the other side. If you work your calves with toe-lifts and don't do the proper shin workout, you'll ruin your shins. If you work your abs without working your back, your spine will not be happy, which will piss off your hips, legs, and feet.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Miles Invictus » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:37 am UTC

I've heard that bananas can help you run better, supposedly because of the potassium, and I'd also recommend high-protein foods to rebuild muscle.

You should definitely do some stretching before you run; a good way to stretch your abdomen is to stand up straight, clasp your hands together, turn them so the palms are facing outward, angle them to the sky, and kind of lean back. I'd reference a wikipedia entry for "abdominal stretch", but I didn't see one.

Thirty minutes on a bike will help you out if running hurts. Exercises like push-ups and crunches can give you a good workout without causing your lungs to burst. Other good ones include military presses, squats, overhead arm claps, and flutter kicks. (I mention those because those are the exercises I do...when I bother to exercise.) Water is another big thing -- when you're properly hydrated, you can take a lot more punishment.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Toeofdoom » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:26 am UTC

If you want to get fitter while accomplisiong something else, you could always try getting a job where you have to move around a fair bit. Such as stacking shelves?

I can't go up a flight of stairs without being a little out of breath either, but when I say a flight I mean atleast 4 stories and when I say go up I mean 2 stairs at a time as fast as I possibly can.

I still can't run too well, only being able to go fairly fast for a few hundred metres but normally when I try running I have a backpack on so I guess that might be a problem. Mainly I just find myself out of breath, because it seems that my lungs suck, or rather, dont.

So I've decided that I can't possibly date someone on the track team and not be able to climb a flight of stairs without breathing hard.

Okay, if you say so, but you're (probably) not going to catch up, so whether you're at 5% or what she could do or 10% doesnt seem like it would make that much difference. Not saying that getting in shape is a bad idea, but yeah.

For the record I'm 180cm and 57kgs or 5'11" and 126 pounds.

Oh and if anyone has any reccomendations for increasing lung capacity or whatever, that would be cool.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Solt » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:34 am UTC

The only universal advice I can give is: don't give up!

Stretching isn't as important as many people would have you believe. There is little scientific evidence for it helping to prevent injury. What it does do is increase your range of motion, if you warm up first. But in an unskilled sport like running, that's unimportant. Do it if you want, just don't overdo it.

I've started running from being completely out of shape before. First off, consider if you might not prefer an exercise that puts a lot less strain on your joints, like biking or rowing, or even tennis, soccer, or basketball. When/if your joints start screaming in pain, you will either have to find good running shoes or change your exercise. Some of us simply aren't built for running, even with the proper shoes. You'll know if you are soon enough.

Start out slowly, obviously. Try to eat a normal meal before going out (at latest, an hour before). Yes, you need the energy and it will come from your meal. Be sure to eat a lot of carbs if you are going to be running regularly, or your body will start to break down and you will stop seeing progress. Nutrition is probably the most important part of getting healthy! I learned this from experience, the hard way.

Another thing I've learned from a lot of experience: sugary drinks like Gatorade and Powerade are MUCH, MUCH better than water alone. I've tried both after long, taxing workouts in hot and dry weather. The sugary drinks replenish your strength, while water merely convinces you that you will survive.

Speed is not as important as time spent running. Go slowly but set distance limits for yourself. 2 miles is good- walk if you can't make it all the way at first. For reference, Cross Country races are 3 miles and training can go up to 20 miles in one day; decent times are around 25 minutes for 3 miles, under 21 minutes is getting competitive. Medical opinion is that you should spend at least 20 minutes with an elevated heart rate to get a good cardiovascular workout. See how long it takes to run a certain distance, then see if you can beat it the next day- it's important to motivate yourself by seeing progress. And eat a lot of carbohydrates!

Uh, additional advice to get started concerning your state- if you've ever liked any running sports, football maybe, play that with a few friends. You have much more motivation to keep running, and it doesn't hurt as much when the running is in short spurts, yet your heart rate stays high the whole time. Also, doing things like taking stairs 2 at a time and walking places less than a mile away instead of driving and otherwise getting your heart rate up multiple times throughout the day outside of formal exercise time should help you get in enough shape to start running effectively. And get in the habit of walking places at a brisk pace. The key is actually your heart rate, not the physical actions. Do what it takes to maintain your heart rate where you want it to be.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby b.i.o » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:54 am UTC

Just a thing to note, if you're going to drink Gatorade (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that) while you're exercising (or immediately after) dilute it. A lot. Having pure Gatorade while doing heavy exercise (especially while you're not used to it) is a bad idea.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Eleyras » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:18 am UTC

First, set number of laps/distance/what have you. Then, go for a walkjog. That is, walk, accelerate to a jog, slow to a walk again as you get out of breath or are tempted, go back to jog. Watch landmarks so you know where you are jogging and where you are walking, try to build a pattern.

Once you have your pattern, extend the jog sections a bit. See how it works. No, that doesn't mean the walk section gets extended too! Most of all, set a landmark goal - "I will run to this pole, then I will walk until I reach that stop sign." That way, you know you don't have to keep running and it seems less arduous.

Stretch before, stretch AFTER <--- reduces sore muscle-age as well as helps if you've had injuries. If you have had injuries, make sure you don't do anything stupid with them (I saw the link but I didn't click it. :oops: ) Like for me, I won't go do knee-intensive exercise my first day back.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Twasbrillig » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:38 am UTC

Habanero wrote:It even adds some leg stuff.


Bahahahah!

If you row seriously, your legs will develop way faster and way more than your upper body. Rowing is all about leg strength.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby upstreamcurrent » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:16 am UTC

I didn't read this whole thread since I'm supposed to be doing work, but I figued I'd chime in with a little bit of advice and hope i'm not repeating too much.

1. Make sure you have good shoes. This will cause you all sorts of problems. If you can afford it, buy yourself a new pair of running shoes at wal-mart, you're entire body will thank you. Also, don't use them for anything but running.
2. Do some sort of an ab workout everyday if you can. It doesn't need to be fancy, but it will help you out tremendously.
3. Map out some courses of varying distances in a car and get a stopwatch. Use these tools to learn how to keep a steady pace. Typically, runners will give their pace in minutes/mile.

Solt wrote:For reference, Cross Country races are 3 miles and training can go up to 20 miles in one day; decent times are around 25 minutes for 3 miles, under 21 minutes is getting competitive.

Wow, I want to live there. I ran cross country in high school, and decent times started about 20:00 with competitive being around 17:30 for an average race.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby joeframbach » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:57 pm UTC

Miles Invictus wrote:Exercises like push-ups and crunches can give you a good workout without causing your lungs to burst. Other good ones include military presses, squats, overhead arm claps, and flutter kicks. (I mention those because those are the exercises I do...when I bother to exercise.)
To add to this: use very little weight (i recommend no weight), and do something for 10-15 minutes at a time. In HS, we used to take 5 lbs in each hand and practice arm movement for 10 minutes at a time. Strength matters very little when it comes to running.

Eleyras wrote:First, set number of laps/distance/what have you. Then, go for a walkjog. That is, walk, accelerate to a jog, slow to a walk again as you get out of breath or are tempted, go back to jog. Watch landmarks so you know where you are jogging and where you are walking, try to build a pattern.
This is called a fartlek. It's swedish (i think?) for "play run"? (I think?)

Solt wrote:Stretching isn't as important as many people would have you believe. There is little scientific evidence for it helping to prevent injury. What it does do is increase your range of motion, if you warm up first. But in an unskilled sport like running, that's unimportant. Do it if you want, just don't overdo it.
I call bullshit. Millions of athletes throughout pretty much all of history can't be wrong, right?

Solt wrote:Try to eat a normal meal before going out (at latest, an hour before). Yes, you need the energy and it will come from your meal. Be sure to eat a lot of carbs if you are going to be running regularly, or your body will start to break down and you will stop seeing progress. Nutrition is probably the most important part of getting healthy!
Eating an hour before isn't going to do much. Having a regular diet constantly is key. If you eat normally throughout the day, you can go running 5 or 6 hours after your last meal and be fine. If you're going to carb-load, it's only important if you're really pushing your limits for hours on end. I carb-load the night before a race (and I'm sure that girl does too. keep that in mind. if you're taking her out somewhere the night before a big race, take her out for italian food. i usually go to the olive garden for the endless pasta bowl. endless pasta and breadsticks (and lots of water) for $10!)

Solt wrote:sugary drinks like Gatorade and Powerade are MUCH, MUCH better than water alone.
someone else already covered this:
Silver2Falcon wrote:Just a thing to note, if you're going to drink Gatorade (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that) while you're exercising (or immediately after) dilute it. A lot. Having pure Gatorade while doing heavy exercise (especially while you're not used to it) is a bad idea.
Besides, half an hour of running isn't that taxing on your body. Nobody needs extra crap right after a workout to get by; you just need a normal diet.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Frh » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:34 pm UTC

Ah hm, I did eat dinner before I went running, I thought I might need the energy or something. But I guess that doesn't work out if it makes your sides hurt enough to not be able to continue.


If you go running before you have digested your food, then blood will be "pulled" away from your stomach, and cause discomfort. At least, this is how it was described to me by a medic friend!

It sounds to me (based on your desire to walk up stairs) that you want mainly to work on anaerobic stuff. You probably don't want to start too hard, but if you find a route and time yourself each time you do it. I also always take my heart rate after running, to see how hard I have actually worked (at least at the end). From this you can also see how fast you recover (by taking your heart rate again in say 15 minutes), recovery being more closely associated with fitness than the time in which you can run a set distance.

You also might want to try just picking up a sport, as if you are having fun and get to know people doing it, you are far more likely to stick with it. I would recommend something like squash or ultimate frisbee, both of which are easy to pick up and really good fun, as well as being good for fitness.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby joeframbach » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:52 pm UTC

Frh wrote:
Ah hm, I did eat dinner before I went running, I thought I might need the energy or something. But I guess that doesn't work out if it makes your sides hurt enough to not be able to continue.


If you go running before you have digested your food, then blood will be "pulled" away from your stomach, and cause discomfort. At least, this is how it was described to me by a medic friend!

I think what happens here is that when you exercise, capillaries in your small intestine sometimes break. For the most part this is not a problem for your body, but it will effect your ability to get nutrition from your food.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby libellule » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:30 pm UTC

Sounds like you're just really really weak and out of shape. Running is very efficient for weight loss and staying fit and the like, but pretty hard on the body. Can you swim? It's much easier on your system and it's a whole-body workout too. Barring that, I'd echo those who recommend some core strength training, abs and back, combined with low-impact aerobic stuff (biking, or any of those hideous aerobic machines at the gym).
And maybe do some fast walking too.

I wouldn't take all the Gatorade and hydration stuff too seriously. You have to worry about that only when you're exercising for much longer than you are currently doing. Likewise the stretching. The whole fitness industry is a bit of a lark with all this superfluous supplemental crap.

I'm an inch taller than you and the same weight and I run a lot without problem. It's more a question of aerobic fitness, muscular habituation and endurance than raw physique that determines your ability to run without pain. Once you get past the pain, you've probably got an ideal physique for a runner.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Dream » Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:39 pm UTC

joeframbach wrote:
Solt wrote:Stretching isn't as important as many people would have you believe. There is little scientific evidence for it helping to prevent injury. What it does do is increase your range of motion, if you warm up first. But in an unskilled sport like running, that's unimportant. Do it if you want, just don't overdo it.
I call bullshit. Millions of athletes throughout pretty much all of history can't be wrong, right?


BS call seconded. Coming from absolutely nowhere to proper, regular exercise it's very important to keep well stretched, before and after. It will definitely stand to you in the days after you exercise, with far less aching, and will help you avoid injury. I have done many sports, and many stretches. I know this to be true.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby ZeroSum » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:06 pm UTC

Solt, are you seriously contending that a restricted range of motion will not increase the likelyhood of overextension? Also, you called running unskilled. In truth, form is a very important aspect of running.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Metty » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:10 pm UTC

You're better off doing some circuit training and building up a little bit of muscle before you start running.

And, join a gym, you can do cycling, rowing and running.

Cycling is amazing help.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Solt » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
joeframbach wrote:
Solt wrote:Stretching isn't as important as many people would have you believe. There is little scientific evidence for it helping to prevent injury. What it does do is increase your range of motion, if you warm up first. But in an unskilled sport like running, that's unimportant. Do it if you want, just don't overdo it.
I call bullshit. Millions of athletes throughout pretty much all of history can't be wrong, right?


BS call seconded. Coming from absolutely nowhere to proper, regular exercise it's very important to keep well stretched, before and after. It will definitely stand to you in the days after you exercise, with far less aching, and will help you avoid injury. I have done many sports, and many stretches. I know this to be true.


Well, I don't care what you both believe, because you're wrong. The scientific evidence is on my side, as I confirmed before posting anything.

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/ ... gament.htm
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... id=1071358

-"new research is showing that stretching does not prevent injuries or make you any less sore the next day"
-"One study showed that marathon runners who stretched had a higher rate of injuries than those that didn't,"
From the US News article.

-"Of note, no basic science evidence suggests that stretching would decrease injuries." From the second source, an article in a medical journal.

Both state that warm-ups do help prevent injury. This means light exercise to get blood flowing, not stretching.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby optionalredmark » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:18 pm UTC

Splitting Sides -

About.com had an article about the top 50 health tips that people didn't know about, simple things such as "putting pressure at the top of your mouth with your tongue, alternating it with pressure against the center of your eyebrows will help combat sinus pain - but you'll get a mouthful of mucus down your throat as well," and things such as "putting your hands under cold water will rush blood to them relieving pressure around your neck & head" (for headaches).

One of the tips they had was that when you run, you should take "slow long breaths" - and avoid "huffing" as you fall into your steps, because that puts pressure on the pancreas, which in turn causes the splitting pain. Aka, instead of step breath-in step breath-out step breath-in step breath-out, go breathe in slowly as you step, step, step, breathe out slowly as you step, step, step.

I don't know, it may be mumbo jumbo (and I can't find the article again) - but I haven't gotten splitting pain since I was 19, after I started controlling my breathing. I'm 23 now and run about 4 miles a day (I use it as my "getaway" from everything, it's soothing).

Good luck!

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Solt » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:26 pm UTC

upstreamcurrent wrote:
Solt wrote:For reference, Cross Country races are 3 miles and training can go up to 20 miles in one day; decent times are around 25 minutes for 3 miles, under 21 minutes is getting competitive.

Wow, I want to live there. I ran cross country in high school, and decent times started about 20:00 with competitive being around 17:30 for an average race.


Well I went to a nerd high school with 600-odd students total, so that might explain my lower standards. We only ran 3 days a week during the summer.

ZeroSum wrote:Solt, are you seriously contending that a restricted range of motion will not increase the likelyhood of overextension?


You're confusing normal ROM with extended ROM. There is no "restricted" ROM. The Journal article I cite above puts it best: "If injuries usually occur within the normal range of motion, why would an increased range of motion prevent injuries?"

Also, you called running unskilled. In truth, form is a very important aspect of running.
Maybe, but it's not nearly as skilled as, say, tennis. I spent years learning how to get the ball to move exactly the way I want with a tennis racket. I picked up running in about a month. Once you get the form right, running is a repeated motion with a few minor variations depending on terrain. Other sports are a lot more dynamic, movement wise.
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produced a more reliable product. But sailors do

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most annoying habit of splitting in two."

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby tiny » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:31 pm UTC

joeframbach wrote:An important thing about stretching: hold the stretch for at least 12 seconds, and don't rock back and forth in order to stretch further. Some people, when trying to reach their toes, will rock their back back and forth, gain momentum, reach their toes, and rip something important.
The best trick while stretching is to pull yourself deeper while you exhale. 'Relax into the pain', that's what my ballet teacher always tells me.
12 seconds is good to start with, but to be really effective you should work your way up to at least 60 seconds. Be careful to stay warm.

If you want to build up your muscles it's important to let your body rest every other day. Muscles grow while they rest. And you should eat some meat every now and then (if you're not doing this already).


optionalredmark wrote:One of the tips they had was that when you run, you should take "slow long breaths" - and avoid "huffing" as you fall into your steps, because that puts pressure on the pancreas, which in turn causes the splitting pain. Aka, instead of step breath-in step breath-out step breath-in step breath-out, go breathe in slowly as you step, step, step, breathe out slowly as you step, step, step.
It's best to breathe in on more steps than when you breathe out, and put in one 'blank' step after exhaling, where you don't breathe, but relax (not forcing your breath is improtant). If you don't have enough air for a 'blank' step, you're running too fast.
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Iori_Yagami » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:33 pm UTC

tiny wrote: If you don't have enough air for a 'blank' step, you're running too fast.

Owww, in that case all running is too fast for me. I am the absolute champion of unfitness of this thread! (errr, nothing to be proud of, really).
Sometimes I think, school PT programs were too undifferentiated and poor (like take'em all together and yell at'em 'Ruuuuun, you stupid kids! Faster!'). So, doctors today ring all bells and say scary things about 90% of pupils being very unhealthy after they finish school. When all impression about sports is negative (both from school and bullies, who usually are good at sports), it is so unusual to start it on your own...
By the way, I ran a cross of 10km, and they didn't let me finish. (it was late and cold, evening, really). So, it became just 8km in 3 hours... staggering and flowing though space of nightmare...
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby tiny » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:40 pm UTC

Iori_Yagami wrote:
tiny wrote: If you don't have enough air for a 'blank' step, you're running too fast.

Owww, in that case all running is too fast for me. I am the absolute champion of unfitness of this thread! (errr, nothing to be proud of, really).
Perhaps you're a sprinter. I'm a sprinter. I suck at running long(er) distance.
A friend of mine who has a very small lung trains by running 2mins, walking 3mins, running 2mins, walking 3mins and so on. Her plan is to gradually push her running time. It seems to work for her.
"I write what I see, the endless procession to the guillotine." ~ de Sade

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby wst » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:49 pm UTC

I can do medium distances, but I'm an awful sprinter or long-distancer. I don't have the off-the-line speed to sprint or the stamina for longer (800m+) distances. I'm pretty good at 400m for an asthmatic though.

I have an exercise book that I occasionally look at and follow the scheme for a few days, then give up on. It's the Canadian air force's scheme. Quite good really, Starts of with stuff a 6 year old can do easily, and progresses. At most you need to do 11 minutes, and when you get good enough to do that ability level you go onto the next level up. The top level is Olympic standard though D:
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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby Goofy-Boots » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:25 pm UTC

do 100 push-ups everyday in sets. for example do 25, rest for exactly a minute then continue. in a few weeks it will get easier and you can move onto sets of 30 to continue pushing yourself.

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Re: Splitting Sides

Postby libellule » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:36 pm UTC

Dream wrote:
joeframbach wrote:
Solt wrote:Stretching isn't as important as many people would have you believe. There is little scientific evidence for it helping to prevent injury. What it does do is increase your range of motion, if you warm up first. But in an unskilled sport like running, that's unimportant. Do it if you want, just don't overdo it.
I call bullshit. Millions of athletes throughout pretty much all of history can't be wrong, right?


BS call seconded. Coming from absolutely nowhere to proper, regular exercise it's very important to keep well stretched, before and after. It will definitely stand to you in the days after you exercise, with far less aching, and will help you avoid injury. I have done many sports, and many stretches. I know this to be true.

I agree with Solt. FWIW you never catch any of the Kenyans stretching. If you must stretch, at least do it *after* you've warmed up so at least you're not going to tear your cold muscles.

And yes, form is important if you want to be a good runner, but this guy is just asking for advice on beginning to exercise after not doing anything all his life. He's not training for the Olympics.


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