Cats or Dogs?

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby steelfrog » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:43 pm UTC

I have two cats (well, my girlfriend has two cats) and it wouldn't take long for me to throw 'em out and get a dog instead. Cats leave fur all around the house, makes the place smell like crap if you don't constantly clean out the litter box and will tear the hell out of your furniture. Dogs will too, but at least they learn not to do it twice when you teach them.

In short, fuck cats.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Zohar » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:57 pm UTC

I love dogs! I like cats too but much prefer dogs. Preferably an huge dog that can jump on you and knock you to the ground. When I get a dog, it'll be big.

What about a poll?
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:19 pm UTC

I dated a girl who was 110 lbs of 5' 6 fury, and she had a dog, nay a familiar, that was a 150-some odd lbs Husky-Collie mix, aptly named Bear. This dog and I were locked in a constant battle of dominance (I won sometimes) whenever she was around.

I played soccer in the park last weekend with my little brother and a 3 legged blood hound. The hound's strategy involved gallumping up to the ball and turning sideways to shield it from you, nudge it onward with his muzzle, and continue to impose its huge frame between you and your target.

Anyone read Call of the Wild? Great Dog vs Cat interactions. Its to bad we bred the intensity out of these creatures.

Epic:
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby 22/7 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:02 pm UTC

steelfrog wrote:I have two cats (well, my girlfriend has two cats) and it wouldn't take long for me to throw 'em out and get a dog instead. Cats leave fur all around the house, makes the place smell like crap if you don't constantly clean out the litter box and will tear the hell out of your furniture. Dogs will too, but at least they learn not to do it twice when you teach them.

In short, fuck cats.

Just so we're being fair, all mammals shed, cats and dogs are both covered in hair, they both shed. And you're complaining about having to clean the litter box every couple of days against having to walk the dog/let the dog out a couple few times a day? I'm sorry, but no. Cats are less work to maintain. That doesn't mean they're necessarily better, but, well, yeah. They're less work.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby wst » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:07 pm UTC

Adalwolf wrote:
bavardage wrote:This thread is pointless. Anyone who doesn't choose cats is not worth listening too and hence should be disregarded.
Cats are fluffy. Cats smell nice. Cats can be picked up. Cats purr. Dogs smell and bark.


And dogs will tear your cat apart. :twisted:

Hehehe....


If they don't chicken out of it first. Those balls of fluff can be mighty sharp ;)
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby KevorkianKat » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:28 pm UTC

steelfrog wrote:I have two cats (well, my girlfriend has two cats) and it wouldn't take long for me to throw 'em out and get a dog instead. Cats leave fur all around the house, makes the place smell like crap if you don't constantly clean out the litter box and will tear the hell out of your furniture. Dogs will too, but at least they learn not to do it twice when you teach them.

In short, fuck cats.


I've already stated my love for cats more than dogs (although I love both) but I have to say, in my experience dogs are FAR more likely to do things like take a dump on your carpet, pee, find something you really like and tear it to pieces and shed thicker, heavier hair than cats. This taking into account you have your animals neutered and declawed (at least the front). They can do this with laser surgery now making it about as easy and painless as you can get. My cats healed in less than a week from it.

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Antimatter Spork » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:12 pm UTC

Cats are superior, and I can prove it.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:13 am UTC

KevorkianKat wrote:
steelfrog wrote:I have two cats (well, my girlfriend has two cats) and it wouldn't take long for me to throw 'em out and get a dog instead. Cats leave fur all around the house, makes the place smell like crap if you don't constantly clean out the litter box and will tear the hell out of your furniture. Dogs will too, but at least they learn not to do it twice when you teach them.

In short, fuck cats.


I've already stated my love for cats more than dogs (although I love both) but I have to say, in my experience dogs are FAR more likely to do things like take a dump on your carpet, pee, find something you really like and tear it to pieces and shed thicker, heavier hair than cats. This taking into account you have your animals neutered and declawed (at least the front). They can do this with laser surgery now making it about as easy and painless as you can get. My cats healed in less than a week from it.

How much less than a week, cause my cats usually take about 4ish to 5ish days to recover from normal declawing surgery.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby tylerwylie » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:17 am UTC

For me it's usually dependant on where I live. If I'm at a house, and I have a yard and some space, I'd love to have dogs and cats, if I'm in a small apartment, I'd rather have a couple cats who'll just sleep all day and keep me warm at night.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby __Kit » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:20 am UTC

There isn't any sort of mystical "Dog proximity" with canines either.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby tylerwylie » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:22 am UTC

Wow people still declaw cats? Here I thought we were progressing as a society.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Zak » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:36 am UTC

But dogs are so awesome! My parents got a golden retriever before i was born and she was there for me for almost 15 years! In all that time she never did one thing that would harm me. (unlike the clawing of cats) And really, i love the unconditional-ness of dogs, if you're nice to them, they will go to the ends of the earth for you. Cats will eat your face off.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby tylerwylie » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:51 am UTC

Z.A.K wrote:But dogs are so awesome! My parents got a golden retriever before i was born and she was there for me for almost 15 years! In all that time she never did one thing that would harm me. (unlike the clawing of cats) And really, i love the unconditional-ness of dogs, if you're nice to them, they will go to the ends of the earth for you. Cats will eat your face off.

Dogs do rock, there is much to be gained from having a dog for the most part. When I finally get a house I'd love to have 2 or 3 dogs, and 3 or 4 cats. For dogs I'd probably get a bassett hound and a blood hound, I love those dogs so much.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Zohar » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:53 am UTC

__Kit wrote:There isn't any sort of mystical "Dog proximity" with canines either.


For me there is. It's much more powerful than cat proximity. Cats are OK, but a nice dog? One that gives you patience and some attention? Can't get much sweeter than that.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Zak » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:57 am UTC

I think i would like a blood hound and a mastiff.

Two really giant dogs would be nice.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Fossa » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:34 am UTC

22/7 wrote:
KevorkianKat wrote:I've already stated my love for cats more than dogs (although I love both) but I have to say, in my experience dogs are FAR more likely to do things like take a dump on your carpet, pee, find something you really like and tear it to pieces and shed thicker, heavier hair than cats. This taking into account you have your animals neutered and declawed (at least the front). They can do this with laser surgery now making it about as easy and painless as you can get. My cats healed in less than a week from it.

How much less than a week, cause my cats usually take about 4ish to 5ish days to recover from normal declawing surgery.



Yeah, sorry, anyone who declaws a cat is a barbaric monster.

Don't want claws? Don't get a cat. Them's the rules (in the civilized parts of the world, anyway).

The fact that they do it with lasers doesn't change the fact that you're maiming your pet (which you supposedly love) and giving it a very, very painful time. You think your pet was only affected for a week? Cats instinctually hide pain, its a survival instinct not to show weakness. The fact that it did show that it was in pain for 4-5 days means it was in excruciating, unbearable pain and I can guarentee you it lasted significantly longer than that.

The poor thing has to walk around, dig in the litter box, etc on its mangled paws. It is *NOT* a safe or a sensible procedure.

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Zak » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:36 am UTC

I think that de-barking a dog is worse though...
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby PatrickRsGhost » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:09 pm UTC

Z.A.K wrote:I think that de-barking a dog is worse though...


Agreed. Anyone who wants to "de-bark" their dog should have their own vocal cords removed, just to see what it's like. You don't want a barking dog? Don't get a dog.

"I don't mind if he barks, but I'm worried he'll wake up the neighbors or bark non-stop."

You can train him to stop barking on command. It takes a while, but it can be done. You can get to the point where all you have to do is say their name or say "quiet" and they will shut up for a while.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:29 pm UTC

Or don't get a breed prone to barking. Get one that's prone to being quiet.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:21 pm UTC

I equate this argument to the evolution vs creationism debate.
Evolution will be played by dog owners
Creationism will be played by cat owners

E: "Meh, I don't really dig cats, but whatever, do what you will"
C: "No, cats are better, they're smarter, more loyal, independant, and you form deeper relationships with them!"
E: "If you say so"
C: "No you don't understand, cats are smarter!"
E: "Okay. I'm going to go walk my dog now"
C: "Cats are smarter! my friend Catherine LOVES ME MORE!"
*Throwing a ball for a very happy looking dog*

Dog owners don't care that your cat is a deep and mysterious being. We're out playing with our dogs. Or the playful cats.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:33 pm UTC

Fossa wrote:
22/7 wrote:
KevorkianKat wrote:I've already stated my love for cats more than dogs (although I love both) but I have to say, in my experience dogs are FAR more likely to do things like take a dump on your carpet, pee, find something you really like and tear it to pieces and shed thicker, heavier hair than cats. This taking into account you have your animals neutered and declawed (at least the front). They can do this with laser surgery now making it about as easy and painless as you can get. My cats healed in less than a week from it.

How much less than a week, cause my cats usually take about 4ish to 5ish days to recover from normal declawing surgery.



Yeah, sorry, anyone who declaws a cat is a barbaric monster.

Don't want claws? Don't get a cat. Them's the rules (in the civilized parts of the world, anyway).

The fact that they do it with lasers doesn't change the fact that you're maiming your pet (which you supposedly love) and giving it a very, very painful time. You think your pet was only affected for a week? Cats instinctually hide pain, its a survival instinct not to show weakness. The fact that it did show that it was in pain for 4-5 days means it was in excruciating, unbearable pain and I can guarentee you it lasted significantly longer than that.

The poor thing has to walk around, dig in the litter box, etc on its mangled paws. It is *NOT* a safe or a sensible procedure.

Just so we're clear, calling someone a barbaric monster is not the way to convince them that what they are doing is wrong. I'm happy to entertain your thoughts/ideas/opinions, but my life and decisions are not up for debate. I appreciate your, fervor? dedication?, I don't know what word I'm going for here, though.

Also, just out of curiosity, in your opinion, which is better for the cat, to be put down as a stray or to be declawed and live out the rest of its days as an upper-middle class house cat? Just curious.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby b.i.o » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:38 pm UTC

I prefer cats--my cat is just as affectionate as any dog, at least to me.

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Girl™ » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:57 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I equate this argument to the evolution vs creationism debate.
Evolution will be played by dog owners
Creationism will be played by cat owners

E: "Meh, I don't really dig cats, but whatever, do what you will"
C: "No, cats are better, they're smarter, more loyal, independant, and you form deeper relationships with them!"
E: "If you say so"
C: "No you don't understand, cats are smarter!"
E: "Okay. I'm going to go walk my dog now"
C: "Cats are smarter! my friend Catherine LOVES ME MORE!"
*Throwing a ball for a very happy looking dog*

Dog owners don't care that your cat is a deep and mysterious being. We're out playing with our dogs. Or the playful cats.


Which of these groups threatened to kill the pet of the other group? You fail.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:00 pm UTC

Dogs superior, cats inferior.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Aleril » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:03 pm UTC

I have always love cats far more than dogs. Way more relaxed and no responciblity other than cleaning out the litter box.

Also, way more cute. Yes I know puppies are cute, but cats are cute forever.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby wst » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:05 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:Also, just out of curiosity, in your opinion, which is better for the cat, to be put down as a stray or to be declawed and live out the rest of its days as an upper-middle class house cat? Just curious.


Why couldn't the cat be neutered and left as a stray? I thought that was the normal thing to do? Or take it in, and don't worry about the claws. Just look after it, feed it, etc. Don't like claws, don't take it in.

Or take it to a rescue centre.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Azrael » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:09 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:Also, just out of curiosity, in your opinion, which is better for the cat, to be put down as a stray or to be declawed and live out the rest of its days as an upper-middle class house cat? Just curious.
So claws = put down and no claws = adopted by a perfect family?

I like how you've discounted all the other possibilities. Including living out the rest of it's days as an upper-middle class house cat *with* claws.

And there's always 'being abandoned and then dying in a fight because it doesn't have claws.'

Lots of reputable adoption centers refuse to declaw cats because, regardless of the method, doing so removes the last knuckle of each digit and leaves the animal defenseless.

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:47 pm UTC

Girl™ wrote:Which of these groups threatened to kill the pet of the other group? You fail.


bavardage wrote:This thread is pointless. Anyone who doesn't choose cats is not worth listening too and hence should be disregarded.
Cats are fluffy. Cats smell nice. Cats can be picked up. Cats purr. Dogs smell and bark.


*Goes and plays in the park with my dogs*
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Girl™ » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:00 pm UTC

You put together two quotes--one of which was an obvious joke--that have nothing to do with one another. Oh me yarm UR SO SMRT LOL.

Adalwolf wrote:
bavardage wrote:This thread is pointless. Anyone who doesn't choose cats is not worth listening too and hence should be disregarded.
Cats are fluffy. Cats smell nice. Cats can be picked up. Cats purr. Dogs smell and bark.


And dogs will tear your cat apart. :twisted:

Hehehe....


This is what I was talking about. Adalwolf, you're fucking sick. Get help.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby aleflamedyud » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:54 pm UTC

Dogs rule, cats drool. End of story.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Zohar » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:02 pm UTC

aleflamedyud wrote:Dogs rule, cats drool. End of story.

While I agree completely with the first part, I've never seen a drooling cat. A drooling dog is findable.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby 22/7 » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:08 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:
22/7 wrote:Also, just out of curiosity, in your opinion, which is better for the cat, to be put down as a stray or to be declawed and live out the rest of its days as an upper-middle class house cat? Just curious.
So claws = put down and no claws = adopted by a perfect family?

I like how you've discounted all the other possibilities. Including living out the rest of it's days as an upper-middle class house cat *with* claws.

And there's always 'being abandoned and then dying in a fight because it doesn't have claws.'
I did no such thing. I never claimed that there were no other possibilities, nor did I say that they weren't worth pursuing. I also never said that when a pet gets adopted, it's by a perfect family. So thanks for the strawman, but you can keep him. What I actually did was gave you the two options for the cats that will be where I go to get my pets, which is basically a "pound" or whatever you want to call it. I go to these places specifically because they will be put down at some point if no one goes and gets them. If I do decide to get them, I will have them declawed (probably front and back, to be honest. I figure you can't hate me any more than you do right now anyway. Also, women aren't really people) and they will live with me for the rest of their natural lives. I don't want the cats tearing up everything I own, so I remove their claws. Sorry if my approach is too pragmatic for your liking.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Adalwolf » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:12 pm UTC

Girl™ wrote:You put together two quotes--one of which was an obvious joke--that have nothing to do with one another. Oh me yarm UR SO SMRT LOL.

Adalwolf wrote:
bavardage wrote:This thread is pointless. Anyone who doesn't choose cats is not worth listening too and hence should be disregarded.
Cats are fluffy. Cats smell nice. Cats can be picked up. Cats purr. Dogs smell and bark.


And dogs will tear your cat apart. :twisted:

Hehehe....


This is what I was talking about. Adalwolf, you're fucking sick. Get help.


wtf?

It was a joke, hence the 'hehehe'.

Take a chill pill.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby wst » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:15 pm UTC

A cat will take a dog ven if the dog's 2x the size of the cat. Cats are fucking scary when they fight. You don't want to break up cats fighting, at least not by hand. Water cannon, yes.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:17 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
aleflamedyud wrote:Dogs rule, cats drool. End of story.

While I agree completely with the first part, I've never seen a drooling cat. A drooling dog is findable.


...

I own a drooling cat. It'd be adorable if he didn't insist on kissing all the time.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Azrael » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:09 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
Azrael wrote:
22/7 wrote:Also, just out of curiosity, in your opinion, which is better for the cat, to be put down as a stray or to be declawed and live out the rest of its days as an upper-middle class house cat? Just curious.
So claws = put down and no claws = adopted by a perfect family?

I like how you've discounted all the other possibilities. Including living out the rest of it's days as an upper-middle class house cat *with* claws.

I did no such thing. I never claimed that there were no other possibilities, nor did I say that they weren't worth pursuing. I also never said that when a pet gets adopted, it's by a perfect family. So thanks for the strawman, but you can keep him. What I actually did was gave you the two options for the cats that will be where I go to get my pets, which is basically a "pound" or whatever you want to call it. I go to these places specifically because they will be put down at some point if no one goes and gets them. If I do decide to get them, I will have them declawed.

Straw man
The straw man fallacy is when you misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, knock down that misrepresented position, then conclude that the original position has been demolished. It's a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made.



There's no straw man when you, twice now, claim the cat's only options are be put down or live without claws. I haven't misrepresented your position in the least. Never mind that I never addressed your original point regarding the validity of declawing cats.

I have said your position is trash because it discounts all the other possibilities. And if you're going to start breaking out the logic-hammer, you're completely anecdotal to boot.

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby 22/7 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:18 am UTC

It's like you know where to find a link, can copy and paste the definition of something, but can't take that new knowledge and apply it to elsewhere.
Azrael wrote:So claws = put down and no claws = adopted by a perfect family?

I like how you've discounted all the other possibilities. Including living out the rest of it's days as an upper-middle class house cat *with* claws.
Let me make this clear, since it apparently hasn't been made such yet. I NEVER SAID THIS. What's more, I *SAID* that I never said it, and you promptly ignored it. This is a strawman because you're using it as my stance, and it's not. Then, instead of saying, 'I misinterpreted your stance' or 'you were unclear exactly what you meant by the question,' you claim that that statement is not indeed a strawman. From your post:
The straw man fallacy is when you misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, knock down that misrepresented position, then conclude that the original position has been demolished. It's a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made.
You misrepresented with the first quote and "knocked it down" by dismissing it since I wasn't including all other possibilities (which, in and of itself is pretty much impossible). You have yet to answer my question, however, which, incidentally takes into account the third bolded part of the definition. Now to deal with the middle of your post.
Azrael wrote:Never mind that I never addressed your original point regarding the validity of declawing cats.
WHAT?? So let me get this straight. I have to address your misrepresentation of my position, but you can just say "nevermind" and push my argument aside? No.
Azrael wrote:I have said your position is trash because it discounts all the other possibilities. And if you're going to start breaking out the logic-hammer, you're completely anecdotal to boot.
First of all, it discounts all other possibilities (and let me make this as clear as possible, because apparently the last time I said it (in my last post), you didn't catch on) *FOR ME*. As far as I'm concerned, when I walk into the pound or shelter or whatever the hell they call the animal control places where you can adopt/collect your (new) pet, I'm walking down a death row for animals. So the options *FOR ME* are "leave the cat here, it'll most likely be euthanized (is that a word? put down), or adopt it. One of my conditions for adopting a cat is having it declawed, for a number of reasons that 23 years of personal cat ownership and combined hundreds of years of second-hand cat ownership (family, friends, etc.) have produced for me. So *FOR ME* those are the two options I have. On top of that, and I cannot say this clearly enough, I NEVER, not even once, claimed that those are the only two options available for a cat. You said that I did, but that doesn't mean that I did.
Totally not a hypothetical...

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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:29 am UTC

Aleril wrote:I have always love cats far more than dogs. Way more relaxed and no responciblity other than cleaning out the litter box.

Also, way more cute. Yes I know puppies are cute, but cats are cute forever.


Cats are ugly fuckers.

__Kit wrote:There isn't any sort of mystical "Dog proximity" with canines either.


Truly civilized people, such as adalwolf and myself, form a sacred bond with their canine companions that transcend the laughable concepts of love and respect.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Upsilon » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:02 am UTC

Dogs all the way. They are (usually) loyal, protective, and friendly. They have many uses like security, companionship, hunting, and rescue.

Dogs save many human lives each year.

Cats are lazy bastards. Sure, they have their positives, but none of them apply to me. Every cat who isn't lazy hates me.

I like all dogs better than cats.*

*except lap dogs. I hate them.
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Re: Cats or Dogs?

Postby Durinthal » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:00 am UTC

I'm allergic to cats, so it's an automatic dog preference for me. I still can't resist petting/playing with a cat if I'm around one, though.


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