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Tomlidich the second
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Tomlidich the second » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:52 pm UTC

I'm sure they said the same things about rock and roll, Jazz, and swing dancing at one time.

Pop culture changes, its going to keep changing, and it doesn't really matter if any one person is OK with that or not.

If people like something, they are going to do it with or without approval.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Xeio » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:16 pm UTC

I don't really like that it's common practice to remove cables from product pictures. Especially since they often hide the power port too.

Like, a wireless charging pad has to be powered by something. I'm mildly curious what that wiring looks like, you know.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Whizbang » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:25 pm UTC

Why? This is what all wires look like 48 hours after being plugged in.

do-not-touch.jpg

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby addams » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:49 pm UTC

It would be funny on a TV program.
It is less amusing in Real Life.

Can you imagine two women standing in a doorway.
Inside the TV is so loud the two women are yell-talking, like at a Dico.

One says, "Turn it Down."
The other says, "We need to be quiet. My child is sleeping."

To be fair, she may not have been thinking clearly.
It was 4 am and she had been sleeping.

So funny.
I swear.

She has that device attached to a timer that deploys at 4 am.
It seems she can sleep though deployment.
Spoiler:
Is this regular Thoughtless, Trashy behavior?
Or; Is this Harassment?

This is the US.
It is probably both.

I am not inclined to sleep peacefully though Rap and News on TV rattling the walls.
That way of waking, kind of, sets my day off on Weird Footing.

I know some people can sleep though nearly anything.
Again; I am not so inclined.

Poor me.
4 am Wake Up!

Ya' want an Update?
Spoiler:
Weird.
Things go from Weird to Weirder.

I thought, "This way leads to escalation."
I don't like escalation.

Escalation is fun;
Only among the best of friends.

This young woman Yelled at me,
"It's a two way street You Know!"
"Your Walking makes noise!"
"I can hear it!"

That is when I knew, this has No Chance of being a productive conversation.
I know she can not hear my walking over the TV. What good would it do to say so?

I had some time to think.
I could not go back to sleep.

Thinking.
Thinking.

Who would know what to do?
A person with both experience and good will.

ah-ha! I had an idea.
I went to the Cop Shop.

Not to see the Cops.
They don't like me.

To see the woman that is their Public Face.
I like her.

She will let me have it, once in a while. (shrug)
I asked her.

"When you see people that have resorted to Violence and you are finishing up the paper work,
Do you ever Think, 'I wish they had....'"?
She understood the question.

I like her even more, now.
She looked sad and introspective.
She came out of a 3 second mediation exasperated.

I asked her, "What do you wish they had done?"
"I want you to tell me what that is and I will do it."

Well....I ran into what may be a Blue Wall.
I Know it is the Place of the Officers of the Court to mediate all sorts of small petty shit before it becomes Manslaughter.

The Police are Officers of the Court.
So are a bunch of other people.

After she and I discussed underlying causes of an obvious cultural and social shift,
I dutifully trotted off to the Court House. Well...There I was met with a Soft Wall.

Really?
We keep moving toward equality.
The Wrong way!

Gay people bitch because of some of the limitations.
There is a Mechanism for Blood Relatives or Relatives By Marriage.

No Blood, No Marriage License.
There is no form for That.

The Court Clerk has a paper with names and addresses of resources for people unsatisfied with the results at the Clerks office.
Basically, "We don't do That. These people do."

She discussed the choices with me and helped me circle the one best suited to my needs.

I returned to the Flat and there was this young woman talking to a Gangster.
Nothing unusual in that. Everyone seems to either be a Gangster or look like one.

She walks away from him and comes to me crying.
Weird. I was hugging and comforting her. Why??

I have no idea.
I told her what I had been up to and where I was going and she seemed ok with the idea of mediation.

All Sweetiness and Light we made a date for Tomorrow and I went to the office.
Darned thing was Hard to Find. Found it.

Maybe tomorrow I can talk to someone for a few minutes.
The office is fully staffed on the Third Wednesday under a SuperMoon.

That may not be enough to meet the needs of the people.
I spent the whole day looking for reasonable ways,
To Stop Conflict and Abuse before it becomes Physical Violence.

Well...I took notes.
I went back to the Cop Shop to check in and share a little personal gossip.
That woman's Huggy-Huggy, Kissy-Kissy was weird. Nice but weird.

It became apparent to me, 'If with my skills, self-control, tools, and willingness am not able to find a mechanism for defusing,
How the Hell are these Addled Brained, nearly out of control at all times, Ding-Dongs supposed to Find Another Way?

While in Town, I talked to another woman.
She seems to know the Police are a problem.
The Police are Never the solution.

I get a sense from people that they feel abandoned and fearful.
We talked about The Job of citizen.

There is a way of looking at our social lives that says,
"Everyone has The Responsibility to be the best Citizen they can be."
"And; To hold others up to the same standard or lift them up as much as possible."

The weakest and the dumbest are a part of our worlds.
They should not be bossing others around Right and Left.

They do have something to say once in a while and we don't have anyway for them speak and/or to be heard.
Sometimes the weak and stupid, and all the other flavors of flawed and imperfect, people need to talk about our Social Lives.

What we want from each other.
What we want from and for our selves.
What we don't want to put up with.

The people are so isolated;
By Luxury.

If the only entertainment in Town was boring Public Meetings those Meetings would be full with parties before and after.


OK! OK!
It can get Weirder.
After running into Walls all day,
I returned to The Flat.

Reading xkcd, because I am boring and Bang, Bang, Bang.
I went to look. Two uniformed men to visit the Noisy One.

They were making noise, I walked near.
One of them noticed me.
He was Gruff and so weird.

This is a small street in a small town.
I park facing the wrong way on the street.

Everyone parks the way they were going.
He ordered me to turn my car around.

I have learned to not attempt reason with those guys.
I turned the car around.

They were going in that woman's flat and I know she is alone in there.
I went in too. Boy! They hated that.

I tole her, "When I am talking to two large men. I prefer to not be alone. Do you want me to stay?"

From what I understand I am considered socially clumsy.
A person should, just, Know to go away when the Uniform is Gruff.

Do you want more Gossip?
If so, I will try to make you some more.

If not I will keep doing the same stupid shit, anyway.
After I catch up on my sleep.


Continuing Saga:
Spoiler:
Another early morning for me.
3-4 am wake up is not so bad when there are good reasons for doing it.

That stupid TV is set on a Timer and she has no control over it.
Unplugging it is the only way.

She says she forgot.
We have an agreement.

At 10 pm, I unplug it.

Americans do not live in Peace.
Some might, most don't.

Why?
Peace is a set of Learned Behaviors.
A profoundly undereducated, rough and corse people do not know that shit.

Nearly all know Something is Wrong.
Nearly all Blame Someone Else.

That is not the way to Peace.
Most do not see any other choice.

And; To be fair;
Many have few other choices.

oh! oh! The Police Thing.
She says it has nothing to do with me. ok.

The Police were contacted about a person being menaced by a car.
The car fit the description of her car.

They were checking 18 hours after the Report.
She was all indignant about that.

wtf. If someone chases you with a car,
They will check 18 hours later?

ech. Who knows?
Secrets. We have Personal Public Secrets.

I am leaning with that group of people that says,
"We don't need so much privacy that we can be tortured and imprisioned in privacy."

The difference between what is Private and what is Secret is important.
I think my people do not understand the difference.

People in positions of Power can use the word Private to do Great Harm.
And; They have Civialian Back Up! Pitch Forks and Guns a-blazing.

People piss me off.
Sleep deprivation can be a dangerous thing.

Men have been shot and killed for snoring.
It has been declared Justifiable Homicide.

Do Not Mess with Tired People!
It takes special training to be tired.

That is part of why Medical Personal are pushed the way they are.
If you are going to Break; You are going to Break under supervision.


ok. I give.
Spoiler:
I was upset.
I have dedicated several days to unearthing a Public Mechanism that functions
to Stop Conflict and Abuse before it becomes Violence.

There is no such thing.
After several days I may have contact with a group of volunteer informally trained mediators 3 hours drive away.

A man that has a much kinder perspective of The People than I do told me about the informal group.
I had to agree with the man. Under the conditions The People are amazingly Peaceful and Well Behaved.

They have no tools.
They are On Their Fucking Own.

They are Violent in word and action.
It could be a Hell of a Lot Worse.

I don't want to contemplate Why it is not worse.
I can't help it!

Why?
Fear of an untrusted yet vindictive Police?
I took an informal pole today.

Eight individuals in a waiting room.
There was Laughter.

Everyone in the room with the exception of One Guy belonged to a Strange Club.
We each with the exception of One Guy had all earned some Scout Badges.

We live with the Knowledge that the Police are More Trouble.
If you have Trouble, Police mean you have More Trouble.

Each was able and willing to Laugh at the Helplessness we feel.
Each agreed being in a Cage, sort of, Sucks.

We laughed!
What the fuck is Wrong with us?
We laughed!


Segregation! Finely! I understand it!
Why don't I want to live with and next to Everyone?
Because we are too different.

Spoiler:
Spoiled Country People might get the Bright Idea we can all live in Peace.
We can. Using the Scientologists Model. Every One Gets a Planet!

Somehow we would mange to fuck that up, too.


oh! oh!
I think it is a funny story.
Spoiler:
The Noise. The Noise.
A person can avert their eyes.
A person can not avert their ears.

Last eve, 11 pm that's 23 to some.
The Noise was at full volume.

I thought, "Excalation. Crap. ok."
I presented at the door. Knocked.

So funny. I started Pounding on the Door.
I did it like Work. I looked at my watch.

It was strangely satisfying at times.
Pound. Pound. Pound.

This is a rickety old wooden building.
The door has been replaced with a vinal clad metal door.

Nice sturdy door. Old wooden building.
I was watching my watch and Pounding.

There were times when the whole side of the building seems to vibrate.
It was sort of satisfying. Like old times, watching my watch and Pounding.

I was not a happy camper.
The physical work out may have been good for me.

After eight minutes of that, she came to the door.
All sweetness and light. She had been sleeping.

She reached out a hand. I have no idea why.
I reached out and touched her hand.

I said, "I'll unplug it for you."
She said, "ok." And went mumbling back to lay down.

I unplugged the TV, asked a few questions that were given straight forward answers,
blew out the Candle turned out the Light said good night all sweetness and light and left.

I left shaking my head.
People.

That woman might need a Nanny.
She does not want one and I would not want the job.

She might need one, anyway.
My entire nation needs a Nanny.

I think the TV is company for her.
No. She is not isolated in Real Life.

Yet; She is. People disappoint her, too.
We are all isolated, to some degree.

The Committee in her head is having a very hard time.
What she wants and what is possible are not even touching.

Why??
Oh, Dear God!
What are her Role Models?

I heard something about Mean HouseWives.
Mean Drunken HouseWives with lots of Money and Bling.

How the Hell does a person reconcile That??
I am assuming a lot.

People interest me.
I was reading a book.
One chapter was on the Narcissistic Personality.

I am like everyone else.
When I study Granite I look for Granite, everywhere.
When I study Narcissists I look for Narcissists, everywhere.

It seems Narcissists are easier to find than Granite.
Narcissists are, just, as easy to misidentify.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Jave D
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Jave D » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:03 am UTC

I was assembling furniture and putting bolts in and now there's a tiny black bit of metal lodged in the skin of my thumb. A mote of metal. I can't seem to get it out, and it's just sensitive enough to notice every now and then, not painful or anything but it's part of me now and I hate that. It's been like two weeks. I am bionic.

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Wednesday
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Wednesday » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:47 am UTC

Advice.
Spoiler:
Any idea what kind of metal it is? A strong enough magnet might help you out here.
Sexts From The Void wrote:i struggle to maneuver on a chessboard of dicks

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Jave D
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Jave D » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:18 am UTC

Wednesday wrote:Advice.
Spoiler:
Any idea what kind of metal it is? A strong enough magnet might help you out here.


I think it's steel. In any case I don't have strong magnets. I have a paring knife, but I think that would end badly.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:45 am UTC

Get an MRI.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby PeteP » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:12 am UTC

I would use needles and not a knife if it is near the surface, less dangerous. Or visit a doctor

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Wednesday » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:46 pm UTC

Jave D wrote:
Wednesday wrote:Advice.
Spoiler:
Any idea what kind of metal it is? A strong enough magnet might help you out here.


I think it's steel. In any case I don't have strong magnets. I have a paring knife, but I think that would end badly.

No old hard drives you can dismantle? Those would certainly be strong enough.
Sexts From The Void wrote:i struggle to maneuver on a chessboard of dicks

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby addams » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:51 pm UTC

Wednesday wrote:Advice.
Spoiler:
Any idea what kind of metal it is? A strong enough magnet might help you out here.

yep.
We are bubbling over with Ideas.
Spoiler:
So funny.
I was thinking the same thing.

I didn't post it.
It might seem mean.

I thought, 'Go to the MRI room.'
Take off your earrings.


I heard a rumor that there was a place on the side of the Old MRI machines that has a magnetic field strong enough to pull the Iron out of your Blood.
(Not really. (maybe over Time)) It may well be strong enough to get that splinter out.

If it is Iron it will dissolve.
With the MRI machine you will have a souvenir.
Without the MRI machine you may have a souvenir.

Iron often leaves a dark mark where it was.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby 3rdtry » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:58 pm UTC

We're approaching a condition I call "song name saturation", where absolutely everything is the name of a song or the name of a band, and civilization collapses because google and other search engines only return music videos. Cue people desperately searching for "hospitals near London" and getting only variations of "The Monkey Biebers - Hospitals Near London [ft. Chris Justinlake] [HD] [Electro remix]".

Seriously though, go on YouTube and type any random name or expression. 90% of the suggestions you get while typing are songs.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby phlip » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:15 am UTC

3rdtry wrote:We're approaching a condition I call "song name saturation", where absolutely everything is the name of a song or the name of a band, and civilization collapses because google and other search engines only return music videos. Cue people desperately searching for "hospitals near London" and getting only variations of "The Monkey Biebers - Hospitals Near London [ft. Chris Justinlake] [HD] [Electro remix]".

Seriously though, go on YouTube and type any random name or expression. 90% of the suggestions you get while typing are songs.

This theory makes me wonder if the Magic: the Gathering metal band confluence is a result of Magic, or a result of metal bands...

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby ahammel » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:37 am UTC

3rdtry wrote:We're approaching a condition I call "song name saturation", where absolutely everything is the name of a song or the name of a band, and civilization collapses because google and other search engines only return music videos. Cue people desperately searching for "hospitals near London" and getting only variations of "The Monkey Biebers - Hospitals Near London [ft. Chris Justinlake] [HD] [Electro remix]".

Seriously though, go on YouTube and type any random name or expression. 90% of the suggestions you get while typing are songs.


"Flabbergasted ponytail headlights" yielded no song suggestions that I recognized.
He/Him/His/Alex
God damn these electric sex pants!

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby poxic » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:24 pm UTC

Thanks for the song title! *scribbles*
A man who is 'ill-adjusted' to the world is always on the verge of finding himself. One who is adjusted to the world never finds himself, but gets to be a cabinet minister.
- Hermann Hesse, novelist, poet, Nobel laureate (2 Jul 1877-1962)

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby 3rdtry » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:23 pm UTC

ahammel wrote:"Flabbergasted ponytail headlights" yielded no song suggestions that I recognized.


No, but "flabbergasted" gives me 10 music videos in first page of the results, "headlights" 15 (14 of which are the same song) and "ponytail headlights" 6.

That's out of 20 results per page. If we keep in mind that I also searched for "ponytail" and "flabbergasted ponytail", that's 31 music results out of 100 total. Not bad.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Tomlidich the second » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:17 pm UTC

Jave D wrote:I was assembling furniture and putting bolts in and now there's a tiny black bit of metal lodged in the skin of my thumb. A mote of metal. I can't seem to get it out, and it's just sensitive enough to notice every now and then, not painful or anything but it's part of me now and I hate that. It's been like two weeks. I am bionic.


with what i do, happens ALL THE TIME

first route: most obvious, it will work its way out eventually. the body is great about forcing out foreign stuff, especially metal. however waiting that long could be irritating.

second: duct tape. may or may not get it. has to be the commercial grade stuff (i like nashua) make sure its a tad warm so its good and sticky.

third, slightly painful:
Spoiler:
use a needle. carefully insert where original puncture injury was to avoid further tissue damage. usually just lightly poking at it a few times, and maybe some good soap and water washing will get it without too much fuss. if you are really ambitious/annoyed/in pain you may elect to try digging it out, though that is a bit painful in itself.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby addams » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:58 am UTC

Tomlidich the second wrote:
Jave D wrote:I was assembling furniture and putting bolts in and now there's a tiny black bit of metal lodged in the skin of my thumb. A mote of metal. I can't seem to get it out, and it's just sensitive enough to notice every now and then, not painful or anything but it's part of me now and I hate that. It's been like two weeks. I am bionic.


with what i do, happens ALL THE TIME

first route: most obvious, it will work its way out eventually. the body is great about forcing out foreign stuff, especially metal. however waiting that long could be irritating.

second: duct tape. may or may not get it. has to be the commercial grade stuff (i like nashua) make sure its a tad warm so its good and sticky.

third, slightly painful:
Spoiler:
use a needle. carefully insert where original puncture injury was to avoid further tissue damage. usually just lightly poking at it a few times, and maybe some good soap and water washing will get it without too much fuss. if you are really ambitious/annoyed/in pain you may elect to try digging it out, though that is a bit painful in itself.

How do I know I am really old?
I like sharing Owy Stories.

Spoiler:
I had a thing under my skin.
I took it out. There is a thing called....

Repeated pressure confuses the nerves.
it has something to do with nerve exhaustion.
It is the transmitters and sodium or something.

For small shallow areas, it works.
I don't recommend it.

Like with any other anesthesia;
Tissue damage is a Big Deal.

It may not hurt a bit, now.
It may hurt a lot, later.

I feel like a Rant. As Usual.

The Russian Thing.
I post into the Ukrane and Russian Thread.

I know Squat about Russia.
I read. Period. Poor Me.

I read some stuff about Educational Theory.
A Russian Educatior in Exasperarion said.

"That is Not Fair to the Student."
"How can you ask them To Think before you have taught them How??"

That Educator was touring and inspecting US Schools.
That used to happen before The Fall.

The group had been looking at Poems and Art the students were doing.
The US did Experiment with some Weird stuff.

Not really Bad. (shrug)
How do you know, until you have tried it?

Some programs were Wildly Successful with Some Groups.
No one way meets The Needs of All People.

Education.
A Relaxed way of Exploring Human Knowledge.

Education.
Anarchy at it's Best.
They come in, Act like a Bunch of AssHoles, (just like their Ma's and Pa's do)
Leave a Fucking Mess, Take most of the Emotional Casualties as Loot. Repeat.

Education in The US?
Fuck. Who knows?

How do The Russians do it?
What are their Results?

In the US; Are our Schools letting us down?
I don't know about All of our Schools.

It is The Same Old Story.
It's a Loop.

The Quality of The School is Reflected in the Quality of the Product of That School.
Junk in Junk Out.

Who Chooses the Quality of The Student?
MNBC and FOX and Comedy Central and Disney and least we forger Pixar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx53MVtcYDw

Does the World need Children's Programing that teaches Thinking?
Maybe.

Will Adults watch it?
Sure. Maybe. I do.

That is a Different Rant.
This Rant?

Many of The People of the US are fucking Fed Up!
One in Three would be happy to consider learning Russian if it meant we could stop being such AssHoles.

Who can ask The People to be better?
Better??

Who Dare Suggest that the US People are Not THE BEST!?
Me.

A bunch want to be Better.
Not the Best. Better.

Better at Being People.
Less Better at Being Frightened of One Another.
Less Better at Being Angry at People we don't know.

We are Plenty good at being Angry at and Frightened of People we Do Know.

EDIT:
New Pant:
http://epafacts.com/?utm_source=truevie ... fgodR0sAhg

Idiots.
Who develops and distributes a slick and exhaustive advertisement campaign Against the Environmental Protection Agency??
AssHoles.

To question an Agency is Ok.
To demand oversight and public participation is Ok.

To attack the Agency and her Agents without any discussion of her Mission is Stupid, Mean and a part of very effective Sculpting of Public Opinion.
I am so Old I saw it with my own eyes. Our ecosystems were in Deep Trouble and the Health of the human populations were at grave risk.

A lot of Work went into Public Education.
A lot of Work went into understanding the chemicals we were Playing with.
A lot of Work went into Doing and Undoing the Out of Doors.

We had Songs to Sing and Stories to Tell.
There was Good to be Done and Harm to Refrain from Doing.

Fifty Years!
Fifty fucking years to go from thinking the Rainbows in the water were Pretty to thinking they were evidence of our Poisonous Human Nature.
Fifty years to go from an ecosystem in decline or dead to an ecosystem that is on the Rebound. The improvements have been profound.

The Osprey, Eagle and large Hawk were Going, Going, Gone.
Rare. So very rare. I went to Alaska to hear an Eagle.

Today, because of the work and intelligence of Agents of the US Government the Raptors are back.
I have the pleasure of seeing these creatures nearly everyday. Bald Eagles are darned near common.

I know a great deal of money is poured into Campaigns against the US Government.
I know these Campaigns are aimed to miss Security Personal and hit Intellectuals.

I know I talk to Converts that Dance to the Drum of Privatize, Privatize.
It is a great deal like a War Drum Dance, without the Charm.

The water is clean, the air is fairly clear (it could be better)
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby 3rdtry » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:59 am UTC

AUGHHH.

Dear people who write documents explaining algorithms on the internet: the people are reading your document because they need to implement that algorithm. If the algorithm you are explaining contains one non-trivial step, such as, I don't know, "Cover all zeros with a minimum number of lines", and you don't explain it, your document is not useless, IT'S WORSE THAN USELESS. YOU ARE WASTING EVERYBODY'S TIME. WHY ARE YOU EVEN WRITING THAT?

AND HOW DO I FIND THE GODDAMN LINES :evil:

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:11 pm UTC

1. Buy thing on eBay from asshole.
2. Receive thing on eBay from asshole, with packaging removed.
3. Thing arrives in parcel too small to have contained packaging.
4. Contact asshole for an explanation.
5. Asshole explains it was returned with a note explaining it had been seized by customs.
6. Asshole uses Global Shipping Program, which means he doesn't even know which country I'm in, so he can't be held accountable for failure to adhere to customs law.
7. Asshole claims this is the first time he's shipped to Australia.
8. Asshole claims he has no idea why the box was returned, as there was no explanation.
9. Asshole claims to contact USPS, USPS claims no knowledge of return.
10. Asshole claims to have just realised I shipped thing with FedEx, not USPS.
11. Asshole claims to have contacted FedEx, been told everything arrived at its destination.
12. Asshole claims to have been hung up on by FedEx, asks me to contact them instead.
13. FedEx tells me they wouldn't have returned packaging on its own, customs would have left a note in the parcel I received.
14. No such note exists.
15. Throughout process, asshole offers 3% refund or full refund in exchange for me shipping thing back at my own expense, won't process refund until he receives thing.
16. Given that parcel is not big enough to have contained packaging, 3% refund wouldn't even cover difference in postage, much less value of packaging and thing existing as a combined item.
17. Asshole refuses to ship packaging separately, reiterates offer for 3% refund or full refund if I'm stupid enough to trust him.
18. I reiterate desire to be shipped packaging, and intention to seek full refund from PayPal if asshole doesn't comply.
19. Asshole threatens to sue me for blackmail if I file dispute with PayPal, find out my credit card company and have money returned to him.

I've never really bought into the notion that you ought to never trust anyone on the internet and they're all out to kill/molest/scam you, and I've had dozens of successful eBay transactions and made the best friend I've ever had via the internet, but jesus fucking christ this guy's managed to completely shake my faith in internet-people.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:20 pm UTC

K-R wrote:19. Asshole threatens to sue me for blackmail if I file dispute with PayPal, find out my credit card company and have money returned to him.

I've never really bought into the notion that you ought to never trust anyone on the internet and they're all out to kill/molest/scam you, and I've had dozens of successful eBay transactions and made the best friend I've ever had via the internet, but jesus fucking christ this guy's managed to completely shake my faith in internet-people.
These two points make me think it's not a scam, as much as a really stupid dude. Just complain to PayPal and have them deal with it.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:23 pm UTC

Yeah, and for what it's worth eBay tends to side with buyers way more strongly than sellers. Make a complaint with Paypal/eBay and you'll probably be just fine.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby speising » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:50 pm UTC

the issue sounds strange, but i don't get the problem really. is the packaging valuable?

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:16 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:These two points make me think it's not a scam, as much as a really stupid dude. Just complain to PayPal and have them deal with it.

You only quoted one point?

I've contacted eBay, to see if they can't talk some sense into him or something. If I don't hear back by the end of the week, I'll initiate a dispute with PayPal.

Stupidity seems fairly plausible, given that he's never used any punctuation, capitalisation or paragraphs in any of our communication, and he's said things like "the box was returned in a brown box i used a medium tape of box cause it would not fit in the flaps so of a medium flate rate box", "it was to be delivered yesterday but was a delayed an empty box", "how am i suppose to know the rules of customs i still do not know why it came back or why i could not tell who it was from until i went onto", and so on, but I'm still not sure how that translates into me not getting the packaging, or even a parcel large enough to contain it.



speising wrote:the issue sounds strange, but i don't get the problem really. is the packaging valuable?

It's a DVD box set. The entire set was a limited edition ten years ago, the individual DVD boxes inside--which are all I received--are still widely available for not much. In fact, I already have the DVDs, because when I originally bought the set I was concerned more with the footage than with collecting. So the missing piece is the only piece I was actually after. Which has made the entire thing that much more complicated, as "I sent you the DVDs, it's not that big a deal" really doesn't fly, whereas for most it might. Someone was actually selling the box on its own a few months back, but I didn't hear about it until after it ended.




pseudoidiot wrote:Yeah, and for what it's worth eBay tends to side with buyers way more strongly than sellers. Make a complaint with Paypal/eBay and you'll probably be just fine.

My concern is that the DVDs arrived, and he can prove I've received them, so they may not feel a full refund is justified. That's basically the argument on which he's claiming he'll base his lawsuit:
you must ship my property back to me or i will sue you in court...you can open a case against me and i will sue your card company saying you blackmailed me have my property...refuse to send my property back therefore no refund will be given thats the law this happened once before and guess what i won i got your blackmail prove you received merchandise and you refuse to return it so no refund given you will loose you cannot keep someones property and ask for a free 132.00* does not work that way

*He forgets the $25 shipping.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:25 pm UTC

Yeah, contacting eBay to check out your options seems like a good idea. Just be totally upfront about what happened.

And, for what it's worth, something of an anecdote:

My step-dad used to do a lot of selling on eBay (less so now). A couple years ago he sold something or other (I don't even remember what). It was in good, working condition when he sent it and he tends to be overly paranoid when packing/shipping. The buyer got it and claimed it was damaged/didn't work. My step-dad trying to be the nice guy asked them to return it and he'd refund it. Instead, the seller lodged a complaint, or whatever, eBay refunded him his money no questions asked. So he potentially got to keep a functional <whatever> for absolutely nothing.

Point being even though you got the DVDs you didn't get what the seller had promised with them (the box). Doesn't matter if it was his fault or bad shipping or whatever. I have a feeling eBay will probably side with you.

That's all conjecture of course as I haven't actually used eBay in a number of years. But I think contacting eBay and seeing what your options are is a pretty solid plan.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Heisenberg » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:32 pm UTC

K-R wrote:*He forgets the $25 shipping.
He also forgets the $25 he's going to pay you to cover the cost of shipping back that thing that he sent you which is not the thing that you agreed to purchase.

If you feel like being nice give him an ultimatum that he needs to send you a refund and the cost to ship it back, and then you'll ship it back. If you don't feel like being nice just tell eBay to give you your money back because the item shipped did not match the item description.

It's entirely possible this guy is scamming you. I paid for a DVD set a long time ago and got sent a bootleg copy. This dude may be seeing how many times he can get paid for the boxed set while only sending the DVDs.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:49 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:
K-R wrote:*He forgets the $25 shipping.
He also forgets the $25 he's going to pay you to cover the cost of shipping back that thing that he sent you which is not the thing that you agreed to purchase.

:lol:

As if he has any intention of paying that. He's reiterated, several times, that he will refund if, and only if, the DVDs are returned to him, and I pay to ship them. And he will refund upon receiving them, and no earlier.

If you feel like being nice give him an ultimatum that he needs to send you a refund and the cost to ship it back, and then you'll ship it back.

Meh, I figured "ship me the packaging" was quite nice enough. He refused to do that unless I paid for the shipping, but given how trustworthy he's proven himself to be at this point (ie not even slightly) I'm disinclined to do that. I tried pointing out that he could either pay the shipping or lose all his money once I filed a dispute, but...well, he's threatening a blackmail suit.

It's entirely possible this guy is scamming you. I paid for a DVD set a long time ago and got sent a bootleg copy. This dude may be seeing how many times he can get paid for the boxed set while only sending the DVDs.

I'm quite aware (of the possibility of a scam, not of your eBay purchasing history). It certainly seems shady as fuck, he's got two other identical listings up at the moment, and he's claimed that it was returned from customs with a note and that there was no explanation for the return, and that he has no idea what country I'm in and that it's the first time he's shipped to Australia. On the other hand, I don't know that he's smart enough to concoct that sort of a scheme.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:19 pm UTC

K-R wrote:well, he's threatening a blackmail suit.
Yeah, that's hot air. Internet people threatening blackmail over sellers account reviews is one of the most hilariousest things to come of Amazon/Ebay/PayPal. It's one reason (I did only link one, because I cannot type) that sets up immediate flags for unbearably stupid and asinine human being.

K-R wrote:I'm quite aware (of the possibility of a scam, not of your eBay purchasing history). It certainly seems shady as fuck, he's got two other identical listings up at the moment, and he's claimed that it was returned from customs with a note and that there was no explanation for the return, and that he has no idea what country I'm in and that it's the first time he's shipped to Australia. On the other hand, I don't know that he's smart enough to concoct that sort of a scheme.
Well, for starters, feigning ignorance might be a good way to entrap people, but that aside, I'm not actually sure how this could be a scam? Aside from a means for helping the postal service out? Am I missing something about what he wants you to send back? He's only getting paid once; it seems silly to 'scam' someone by making them send more and more money to the post office.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:54 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
K-R wrote:well, he's threatening a blackmail suit.
Yeah, that's hot air.

Oh, I'm quite aware. Even if he could make an argument that my ultimatum was blackmail, it would apply just as much, if not more, to his threat to sue. Not that that would prevent him from suing, if he does so pro se.

It's one reason (I did only link one, because I cannot type)

So what was the second supposed to be?

Well, for starters, feigning ignorance might be a good way to entrap people

There's ignorance, and then there's his abuse of the English language.

I'm not actually sure how this could be a scam?

Couple of ways. Claiming he has the packaging nets him more money for the sale, way above the $5 refund he's offering. If someone isn't fussed enough to follow up, he makes more money than he otherwise would. If they accept his offer for a refund and send the goods back, he then proceeds to not refund them, keeping both the money and the DVDs.

Sure, it doesn't make much sense, but neither does USPS/FedEx/customs removing the packaging and shipping it back to him, while sending the DVDs on to wherever they're supposed to go.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:10 pm UTC

K-R wrote:There's ignorance, and then there's his abuse of the English language.
I tried subletting my apartment years ago; most of the responses are in utterly butchered English, and all but one of them was a scam. Which isn't to say proper grammar = not a scam, but terribad grammar certainly points to it.

K-R wrote:Couple of ways. Claiming he has the packaging nets him more money for the sale, way above the $5 refund he's offering. If someone isn't fussed enough to follow up, he makes more money than he otherwise would. If they accept his offer for a refund and send the goods back, he then proceeds to not refund them, keeping both the money and the DVDs.

Sure, it doesn't make much sense, but neither does USPS/FedEx/customs removing the packaging and shipping it back to him, while sending the DVDs on to wherever they're supposed to go.
Still seems a strange way to try and handle a scam. He's not providing the goods promised, which invalidates the sale, and any extra money that enters the situation hinge on you willing to spend extra money he won't see. At worst for you, you ship him back the DVDs at cost to yourself, and then he resends the whole thing, at additional cost to himself. Right? Am I still missing something? I don't see how he can win out on this matter, unless he was hoping you wouldn't notice the DVDs didn't have the boxes, which as you mentioned, seems unlikely since you paid extra specifically for them. It's like selling someone a laptop, only shipping them a keyboard, and then threatening to sue when they demand you comply with the terms of the original sale. That screams less of 'scam' and more of 'idiot'.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:45 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:At worst for you, you ship him back the DVDs at cost to yourself, and then he resends the whole thing, at additional cost to himself. Right?

Wrong. I'm not even sure why you think that would be one of the options.

Worst case, I ship them back at my own cost, and then he does nothing. Then I've paid the money for nothing, instead of paying the money for just the DVDs.


Heard back from eBay. It started well:
I understand that the DVDs are supposed to come with a larger outer box as seen in the picture but the package you received only contained the DVDs without the larger box. I know that your seller offered to partially refund you for $5 or return the DVDs box and you do not know what to do with the situation at hand. I'm sorry to hear about the problem with the item you bought. I will be happy to provide options for you to resolve the issue.


Then it got weird:
Before anything else, let me thank you for all your contributions in making us the number one online shopping site. I see that you have been a huge part of our success since [redacted], having bought [redacted] items in the last 12 months. We really are glad to have you on board!


And proceeded from there to suggest I contact the seller and try to talk to them about it, with instructions on how to do so. And if I couldn't do that, to file a dispute, with instructions on how to do so.

Apparently, someone read my email, typed out a paragraph acknowledging the situation, and then copy-pasted their stock reply to 'item not as described' emails knowing full-well that none of it was applicable. What the actual fuck?

EDIT: And the first step of filing a PayPal dispute? "Here's a text box, type something we'll send to the seller, to see if he can resolve the issue." Also, they don't even have a category for my problem; I can file under either "missing part that prevents item from being used" (which is untrue) or "less valuable substitute" (which isn't particularly true either).

EDIT 2: Because he used the Global Shipping Program, the shipping charge is separate. So PayPal is allowing me to request a refund of the price of the DVDs only. Which the asshole won't agree to anyway, so it's moot, but still.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby yurell » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:59 am UTC

Isn't 'less valuable substitute' true? The box + DVDs is more valuable than just the DVDs — after all, that's specifically why you wanted this set.
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:01 am UTC

yurell wrote:Isn't 'less valuable substitute' true? The box + DVDs is more valuable than just the DVDs — after all, that's specifically why you wanted this set.

Not really, because the DVDs are completely identical to what I would have got had I got the entire thing. It's missing a part, rather than substituting anything, but the part doesn't actually make the DVDs unusable. "Less valuable substitute" was the box I ended up checking, though.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:43 am UTC

Regarding the DVDs, I have a question regarding this...

So... you bought a boxed set of DVDs off of eBay, and the DVDs arrived, however the box did not. And apparently this is because customs removed it and sent it back?

In all honesty, is there any sort of rational whatsoever for customs removing the box and sending it back? it seems that would be an absolutely nonsensical thing to do. It's a box. Customs doesn't remove boxes, do they?

I mean, besides the fact that the parcel was too small to hold the box, indicating that he never sent it in the first place, is there any sort of customs law which bans the shipment of the box? Unless it was made of like... uranium, or lead-paint, I can't imagine a reason why.

I'm not sure what to do at this point... perhaps negotiate with him for the shipping of the box?
Last edited by Djehutynakht on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:52 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:49 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:In all honesty, is there any sort of rational whatsoever for customs removing the box and sending it back? it seems that would be an absolutely nonsensical thing to do. It's a box. Customs doesn't remove boxes, do they?

Can't imagine any reason they would. They also leave notes in parcels they open for inspection even if they don't remove anything, and wouldn't ship the box back to the seller if they deemed it to be illegal. And they wouldn't repackage it into a different parcel, either.

I'm not sure what to do at this point... perhaps negotiate with him for the shipping of the box?

He insists I pay him for the shipping before he'll send it. I don't trust him to send it, so I'm not going to do that.

I've opened a PayPal dispute, but the first step is 'negotiate with the seller', despite the fact that I've spent a week doing that and received nothing but horrendous offers and lawsuit threats.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:03 am UTC

K-R wrote:Can't imagine any reason they would. They also leave notes in parcels they open for inspection even if they don't remove anything, and wouldn't ship the box back to the seller if they deemed it to be illegal. And they wouldn't repackage it into a different parcel, either.


Then all evidence appears that he is lying about having ever sent the box in the first place. I would assume?

I mean, simply from your quote he seems stupid with regards to scamming, but I can't possibly see an alternative.

Customs is not in the habit of doing what he's claimed they did.

Is it possible that you could contact either US/Australian Customs to get proof of whether or not they have a record of this?

You have his messages, and the parcel that couldn't fit the box, and the lack of a customs note (okay, you could have thrown it away in the last case, but if you could get a statement from Customs..) which should all be ample proof in any sort of dispute mitigation with Paypal/eBay.

K-R wrote:He insists I pay him for the shipping before he'll send it. I don't trust him to send it, so I'm not going to do that.

I've opened a PayPal dispute, but the first step is 'negotiate with the seller', despite the fact that I've spent a week doing that and received nothing but horrendous offers and lawsuit threats.


Depending on how much you want the item vs. how much you're willing to give into him, I'd suggest an offer such as "I'll pay x% and give y% upon reception of the item". However, based on his conduct I'm not sure he'd accept it (if he's truthful, at least), and honestly, from what I've seen, I'm not sure I'd trust him to ship the item.

I guess continuing on the route of reclaiming your money is the best course of action unless he spontaneously decides to send you the box.

So... step 1... check?

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby K-R » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:21 am UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:Then all evidence appears that he is lying about having ever sent the box in the first place. I would assume?

The only alternative is that he paid insufficient postage or something, and FedEx shipped as much of it as they could.

Is it possible that you could contact either US/Australian Customs to get proof of whether or not they have a record of this?

It definitely wasn't Australian customs. It arrived in a USPS box with a FedEx sticker from Kentucky, that was too small to have held the outer box. He claims to have received the box before I received the DVDs.

He also claims to have ripped the box when attempting to open it, meaning he couldn't check the label to see where it came from. It also gets him out of providing photographic prove of the return, though, which when combined with everything else...

from what I've seen, I'm not sure I'd trust him to ship the item.

This is precisely my problem. There are other people I've bought from multiple times previously and had no issue with, that I'd be happy to arrange advance payment for shipment of something that went missing. I have zero reason to trust this guy, and several reasons not to. And given I have no interest in the actual DVDs, I have no reason to continue to sink money into it.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Djehutynakht » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:43 am UTC

K-R wrote:The only alternative is that he paid insufficient postage or something, and FedEx shipped as much of it as they could.


I find this unlikely. Generally, the standard protocol is shipping the entire package as a whole, or, if there's insufficient postage, returning the entire thing as a whole.

That, at least is the standard for the USPS. I'd assume it's the standard for private companies as well. Taking apart a package and reshipping costs time and money to do, and is impractical. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure that it's actually legal for them to do so.

Plus, like you said, the box it came in (presumably his own box) was too small to hold it in the first place.

K-R wrote:It definitely wasn't Australian customs. It arrived in a USPS box with a FedEx sticker from Kentucky, that was too small to have held the outer box. He claims to have received the box before I received the DVDs.


Wait... how did he not know you shipped with FedEx? How'd he send the box off? Did FedEx pick it up from his house or something?

Maybe ask FedEx if they know of anything? I'm expecting their answer would be "nope, we just shipped the box, plain and simple".

I doubt it would be US Customs either... makes no sense for them to confiscate the box leaving the country.

K-R wrote:He also claims to have ripped the box when attempting to open it, meaning he couldn't check the label to see where it came from. It also gets him out of providing photographic prove of the return, though, which when combined with everything else...
[/quote]

I'd call blatant BS on that. Ripping the box shouldn't have damaged the label... or even, yeah, if it did shred the label, it shouldn't be that hard to put the pieces back together... unless he, like, fed it through a woodchipper or something. And I don't see how he couldn't photograph the remnants (including your box) anyways.


Anyways.. yeah, just keep on for the quest for a refund. I mean, continuing to attempt reasoning probably wouldn't hurt... much, but I doubt you'll get far.

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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Isaac Hill » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:52 am UTC

K-R wrote:It definitely wasn't Australian customs. It arrived in a USPS box with a FedEx sticker from Kentucky, that was too small to have held the outer box. He claims to have received the box before I received the DVDs.

He also claims to have ripped the box when attempting to open it, meaning he couldn't check the label to see where it came from. It also gets him out of providing photographic prove of the return, though, which when combined with everything else...

I'd guess that he originally intended to ship the whole thing, with box. But, when he went to ship it, he found that the box would require him to use a larger (and thus more expensive) package. So, he just shipped the DVDs, hoping you wouldn't mind, and is now trying to weasel his way out of paying for another shipment.

The "less valuable substitue" seems applicable. Collectors of other things, like action figures, pay a premium for original boxes and are rightfully upset if they get something else. If they had a category for incomplete/partial shipment that might work, too. If we take his offer to ship the box if you pay postage at face value, he's basically asking you to pay for his choice of inefficient shipping method. I don't know if that's allowed under ebay rules.

The Paypal/ebay forms to contact the seller might work. It's easy for him to blow you off. But, bringing Paypal/ebay into it might affect his ability to sell in the future. This could convince him to eat the cost of his mistake this time so he can continue selling on ebay.


On another note, my digital cable box bit the dust. This is the second time this has happened in 6 years. So, I go to the cable company office and swap it for a new one. I specify standard def, as it's an old TV, and the guy hands me a shrink wrapped box with a "standard def" sticker on it. I get it home, unwrap it, and find no coax output. I expected it to be underneath the "standard def" sticker, as that was next to the coax input. I have to use the AV jacks. The ones on the TV are currently filled by other things, and I'd like to use the A/V jacks to connect the box to my stereo. So, I go back to the cable office to ask if they have any with a coax output.

They say no, so I bring the box back home and prepare to spend the afternoon figuring out how to rewire my entertainment center to accomodate the lack of coax. I start by putting the new box where the old box was. It doesn't fit. If I want to use it, I need to buy new funiture. Unlike every other type of electronics device I've ever seen, digital cable boxes have gotten bigger as time goes on.

I e-mail tech support and explain the situtation, that I just need a smaller box. They ask me for three times to schedule a sevice call. I request Tues, Wed and Thurs evening, as I don't want to take time off work for this. On Tues, they write back that Tues is no good for a service call, as they are dealing with an outage in my area. I explained that I don't need a service call, I need someone to spend 5 minutes driving to my house to hand me a box I can use.

When I first got digital cable 6 years ago, the installer offered me two choices for type of box, one much smaller than the other. In one of my e-mails to tech support, I asked if there was a current version of the mini box available. They just ignored me. No "yes", no "no", no "I'll have to check". Nothing. I've dealt with this same support person before, and he has a habit of ignoring my questions.
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Izawwlgood
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Re: Pant Thread (because we need more panting)

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:49 pm UTC

K-R wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:At worst for you, you ship him back the DVDs at cost to yourself, and then he resends the whole thing, at additional cost to himself. Right?

Wrong. I'm not even sure why you think that would be one of the options.

Worst case, I ship them back at my own cost, and then he does nothing. Then I've paid the money for nothing, instead of paying the money for just the DVDs.

Because that would completely invalidate the sale, and you would have an even stronger foot to stand on with respect to cancelling it for a full refund, minus, as I mentioned, the money you paid reshipping it. Which is why the other parts of the paragraph said;
Izawwlgood wrote:He's not providing the goods promised, which invalidates the sale, and any extra money that enters the situation hinge on you willing to spend extra money he won't see. At worst for you, you ship him back the DVDs at cost to yourself, and then he resends the whole thing, at additional cost to himself. Right? Am I still missing something? I don't see how he can win out on this matter, unless he was hoping you wouldn't notice the DVDs didn't have the boxes, which as you mentioned, seems unlikely since you paid extra specifically for them. It's like selling someone a laptop, only shipping them a keyboard, and then threatening to sue when they demand you comply with the terms of the original sale. That screams less of 'scam' and more of 'idiot'.
My money is still on this guy just being an idiot. But anyway, hope PayPal follows through. I can't imagine there's any reason at all to not refund you on this.
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