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doogly
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby doogly » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:21 pm UTC

The title of the thread isn't "Free pass on sexist generalizations because you had a bad day."
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:38 pm UTC

I wonder if we (and-by-we-I-mean-I) should add some Misconceptions and refutations to the first post.

Like, "Misconception #1 - This is the 'Complain about things in a judgement-free zone where no matter what you say, no one's going to call you out if you're being a shitty person' because hahaha no, that's totally what we're going to do."
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:49 pm UTC

Right. Sorry. Didn't realise that being offended at people assuming I'm a child-molester witha sub-60 IQ because I'm male counts as ME being shitty.

Well, I know better now, don't I?

Now I know that as far as you're concerned, the only acceptable response on my part is to silently put up with it.

Gotcha.

Understood.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby doogly » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:55 pm UTC

There are other options, like being upset in a way that is not horribly sexist? I'm sure there are ways to do this and to correctly scope your response.

It may surprise you to know that I too have experienced anger at a woman before. Like maybe even as many as five women.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Yakk » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:01 pm UTC

Did you make up sexist insults, like "come running with rolling pins", when you where upset with the women?

If you didn't, how are people to know that you are upset?

Man, being a not-asshole is *hard*.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:20 pm UTC

"I tried helping someone but my actions were misinterpreted, which was frustrating" would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to say.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:26 pm UTC

It's even possible to say, 'I tried to help, and my actions were misinterpreted by women.' That is perfectly possible.

None of this, 'rolling pins and holding things' nonsense.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Yakk » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:40 pm UTC

Don't be ridiculous.

How can it be possible to talk about women when angry without making sexist comments about them using cooking tools as weapons? Unpossible I say! Unreasonable! Too high a bar!

It simply cannot be done. I, for one, have never seen it done, and I (and my memories of my past experience) am the sole arbiter of truth.

Your disagreement with his use of sexist language when angry is clearly sexist and oppressive, and you should be ashamed and take the rightouts swear-image that sableagle provided as your just deserts. Drink in that sweet, sweet finger of just desserts, for you know it is just, and it is sandy like a desert, and when parched in the desert you should drink a dessert like a slushie.

Next you'll say "any Mexican-heritage judge who rules against me should recuse themselves from the bench, as I have said things about Mexico that where not all positive, which obviously Trumps their judgement" is a non-racist reasonable position to take. We shall not be held hostage to treating women and people of other heritages as if they where actual people and not stereotypes when angry!

Think of the children.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby flicky1991 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:59 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:I find woman more attractive than men, therefore logic follows that if I were a woman Id find myself more attractive.
I can't imagine being attracted to myself regardless of gender. Do you think gay people spend all their time admiring themselves in the mirror?
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby heuristically_alone » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:09 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:I find woman more attractive than men, therefore logic follows that if I were a woman Id find myself more attractive.
I can't imagine being attracted to myself regardless of gender. Do you think gay people spend all their time admiring themselves in the mirror?


If they are really good looking, then possibly.


Sometimes it is so hard to not be sexist when being sexist is so fun, even whilst angry.

Reminds be of a somewhat relative quote from Calvin and Hobbies "Deep down, I doubt my greed for presents can overcome my desire to misbehave."

(Folk of feminine species feel free to create a reign of terror over me if I overstep my boundaries)
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby flicky1991 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:10 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:if I overstep my boundaries

heuristically_alone wrote:being sexist is so fun
I think you just did. :roll:
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby doogly » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:22 pm UTC

flicky1991 wrote:
heuristically_alone wrote:I find woman more attractive than men, therefore logic follows that if I were a woman Id find myself more attractive.
I can't imagine being attracted to myself regardless of gender. Do you think gay people spend all their time admiring themselves in the mirror?

You certainly don't need to be gay either. I am hell of attractive and I absolutely enjoy this.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:30 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:
Right. Sorry. Didn't realise that being offended at people assuming I'm a child-molester witha sub-60 IQ because I'm male counts as ME being shitty.


Oh sure, double down on the ableist language here. Yeah, I'm sure it sucked that people assumed the worst when you went to help that girl and there are a bunch of shitty societal things there which should be addressed but none of that necessitates throwing sexist, ableist or otherwise oppressive language about (and, indeed, throwing it about actually makes it harder to address such problems).
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Flumble » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:42 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:Sometimes it is so hard to not be sexist when being sexist is so fun, even whilst angry.

Being sexist or joking about sexism?
I, for one, see those as very different concepts and enjoy taking part in the latter, just like any other form of discrimination. And that's fine, since all women, blacks, gingers, emos, student-failures and Germans that take part in those conversations like those jokes.
And I don't like sexism, both ways. Not in the least because it is often understood as differences between male and female only.

Also what the hell is an "ableist"? I know of "arbalests" from Age of Empires, but "ableist" sounds like a word made up by a retarded Basically Decent 90s kid.

[edit]heh, learned a new permanent filter today

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby heuristically_alone » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:53 pm UTC

Flumble wrote:Basically Decent 90s kid.

[edit]heh, learned a new permanent filter today


What did you initially input? (Now I am curious)
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:17 pm UTC

Fractal_Tangent wrote:It's even possible to say, 'I tried to help, and my actions were misinterpreted by women.' That is perfectly possible.

None of this, 'rolling pins and holding things' nonsense.

Even if the woman approached literally holding a rolling pin, something showcasing the absurdity of it/awareness of the trope would have been nice, not unlike "it was bad enough being accosted for innocent intent, but the woman literally had a rolling pin as a weapon. Literally. Had it not happened to me I wouldn't have believed it"

Flumble wrote:Also what the hell is an "ableist"?


The superquick version is that it's essentially the racism/sexism of the disabled world. Wikipedia has information but that should give you the general idea. Ranges from outright hostility and over-the-top villany ("No child of mine's gonna date a deaf!") to the more reasonable, more likely experienced things, like talking slowly to someone with palsy or offering to get everything for someone with one arm and so on.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:27 pm UTC

Personally, I think if you're angrily complaining about someone acting in a stereotypical way, hyperbolically painting them with imagery of the stereotypes they're embodying is just to be expected. Nobody's saying "all women treat all men in this stereotypical histrionic way", one guy is saying some particular women did, employing the imagery of such stereotypical histrionics for force.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Flumble » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:42 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:
Flumble wrote:Basically Decent 90s kid.

[edit]heh, learned a new permanent filter today


What did you initially input? (Now I am curious)

Let's describe* it as the thing politicians and other media victims tend to do. And South Park did a whole season (19) about it. :lol:

*note: evading word filters is considered bad manners on this forum. Especially during madness, but (at least if I were mod) also every bit as much outside of it. Moreover, describing it leaves a bit of a mystery even after it's discovered.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:44 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Flumble wrote:Also what the hell is an "ableist"?


The superquick version is that it's essentially the racism/sexism of the disabled world. Wikipedia has information but that should give you the general idea. Ranges from outright hostility and over-the-top villany ("No child of mine's gonna date a deaf!") to the more reasonable, more likely experienced things, like talking slowly to someone with palsy or offering to get everything for someone with one arm and so on.


In this case, I was referring to the post I quoted which, in the context of this friend implied that all pedophiles have low IQs and, by association, creates an impression that low IQ people are likely to be pedophiles. This does not seem to be the case and, in fact, low IQ people seem to be more likely to be victims of sexual abuse rather than perpetrators of it.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:13 pm UTC

Actually I think that people with low IQ are both more likely to be the victim and the perpetrator of sexual abuse. I read a paper about it a while ago that claimed so anyway. My internet is really shitty, so I can't search for it, but I will if I remember when I get home.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:47 pm UTC

That also wouldn't be particularly surprising given that generally victims of various abuses are more likely to commit them. Nonetheless, branding low-IQ people as sexual predators definitely isn't a good thing.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Diemo » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:12 pm UTC

Oh yeah, of course. Sorry if you read that as an endorsement of ableism, I didn't mean that at all
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:14 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Right. Sorry. Didn't realise that being offended at people assuming I'm a child-molester witha sub-60 IQ because I'm male counts as ME being shitty.

That's a damn fine Ray Bolger impression. I actually believed you were made entirely out of straw.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:43 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Personally, I think if you're angrily complaining about someone acting in a stereotypical way, hyperbolically painting them with imagery of the stereotypes they're embodying is just to be expected. Nobody's saying "all women treat all men in this stereotypical histrionic way", one guy is saying some particular women did, employing the imagery of such stereotypical histrionics for force.

In that case, the stereotype of the mods here is that when you do that thing, they make this face
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Weeks » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:08 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:I think if you're angrily complaining about someone acting in a stereotypical way, hyperbolically painting them with imagery of the stereotypes they're embodying is just to be expected.
The guy is angry that he was stereotyped, so he stereotypes right back. Some people don't like that. Maybe that should be expected too?
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:11 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:
Oh yeah, of course. Sorry if you read that as an endorsement of ableism, I didn't mean that at all


Oh no, I didn't read your comment as such. Sableagle's the only person I was talking about.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Carlington » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:02 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote: they make this face
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:14 am UTC

No, that's just in Duat.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Weeks » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:31 am UTC

Do what?
NieXS wrote:Oh god that smiley ruined it.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Carlington » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:45 am UTC

Remind me of the babe.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:46 pm UTC

This always ends with Bowie Crotch, so.. you're welcome.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby addams » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:33 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
Sableagle wrote:
Right. Sorry. Didn't realise that being offended at people assuming I'm a child-molester witha sub-60 IQ because I'm male counts as ME being shitty.


Oh sure, double down on the ableist language here. Yeah, I'm sure it sucked that people assumed the worst when you went to help that girl and there are a bunch of shitty societal things there which should be addressed but none of that necessitates throwing sexist, ableist or otherwise oppressive language about (and, indeed, throwing it about actually makes it harder to address such problems).

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I think, piling on Sableagle is or should be beneath xkcd.

Really?
Rolling Pins?

The xkcd Forum is going For Blood because a man used a colloquialism from last century?
That's just, Crazy Shit. Isn't it?

o.k. Men and other people that get Fed The Fuck Up with aggressive and manipulative women
who have been empowered by Mass Media to behave in demeaning and undignified ways,
need a safe place to explore their feeling and thoughts.

It is obvious Angry Nattering is not The Place for an injured and angry person
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Maybe, a little time in Serious Business is in order.
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Spoiler:
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That said, we're all friends here. We're here to discuss a topic, not to attack or browbeat each other. No matter what, try to keep things civil. If you don't think you can do that, don't post.

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When Women Suck! (Not in a good way.)

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby thunk » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:25 pm UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:Sometimes it is so hard to not be sexist when being sexist is so fun, even whilst angry.


Fun to whom?
Certainly not fun to everyone who you just shat upon.
Yes... we live in a male-dominated culture where sexism is hard for everyone to eliminate.
But that's not something to brag about.

ETA:
And sableagle, I understand you were hurt. And I'm sorry.
But two wrongs don't make a right. And reinforcing sexist stereotypes is only going to make the problem you pointed out worse--because it stems partly from the fact that the patriarchy assumes 1) women are the people supposed to be around and take care of children (and men aren't), and 2) women are incapable of acting and/or doing harm.

These assumptions hurt everyone.

To addams:
I see your point, but "civility" has long been used as an excuse to get oppressed people to shut up--because people who have been systemically harmed by society often take it personally (and for good reason!)

We can't tolerate intolerance--this just makes pretty much everyone worse off.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby addams » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:10 am UTC

thunk wrote:
Spoiler:
heuristically_alone wrote:Sometimes it is so hard to not be sexist when being sexist is so fun, even whilst angry.


Fun to whom?
Certainly not fun to everyone who you just shat upon.
Yes... we live in a male-dominated culture where sexism is hard for everyone to eliminate.
But that's not something to brag about.

ETA:
And sableagle, I understand you were hurt. And I'm sorry.
But two wrongs don't make a right. And reinforcing sexist stereotypes is only going to make the problem you pointed out worse--because it stems partly from the fact that the patriarchy assumes 1) women are the people supposed to be around and take care of children (and men aren't), and 2) women are incapable of acting and/or doing harm.

These assumptions hurt everyone.
To addams:
I see your point, but "civility" has long been used as an excuse to get oppressed people to shut up--because people who have been systemically harmed by society often take it personally (and for good reason!)

We can't tolerate intolerance--this just makes pretty much everyone worse off.
I'm not good at fighting.
But, ... Sableagle is/was injured, because
The World and many of its people Suck!

Sableagle did not find much understanding and support here.
That makes me sad. It also makes our world a worse place.

I've read other accounts of people, especially women,
aggressively keeping men 'in their place'.

I am absolutely certain many men Love, Love, Love being Real Heroes.
Quietly saving the day with a warm coat, a gentle touch and strong shoulders to lean on.

We all know Why his feeling were hurt.
Why he went with 'Rolling Pens' I don't know.

But, ... Dang!!
That's funny! if he is under 70 years old.

I think there are very few women today that know how to handle a Rolling Pen.
In experienced hands a Rolling Pen is a formidable weapon. Seriously.

Where in The World would a young man hear such a thing?
He must have heard the words 'Rolling Pen' used that way.
I wonder, "Where?"

I also wonder;
If he had written,
"Armed with Cell Phones and glass scattering, high pitched voices.";
Would all have been well?

(shrug) I have experience with TeaBagger Women.
(small gasp) He might have had an advantage with that group.

Someone should do a study.
We, kind'a, need to know, "Are our men, esp. large men and men of color At Risk Populations?"

I think we are all agreed, White Men with a secure annual incomes over $500,000.00 are not At Risk.
All the other men, ... May face unreasonable expectations from The World. The World is Not Fair.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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heuristically_alone
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Location: 37.2368078 and -115.80341870000001

Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby heuristically_alone » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:24 am UTC

If aadams ever wrote a book, I would read it.
Bow gifted by adnapemit.

You can learn to levitate with just a little help.

:idea: = Surprised Cyclops

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addams
Posts: 9967
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Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby addams » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:29 am UTC

heuristically_alone wrote:If aadams ever wrote a book, I would read it.

Gee.
Thanks, Lone
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Pfhorrest
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:38 am UTC

I too am grateful for many of the things addams writes, including this latest.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

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addams
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby addams » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:54 pm UTC

*hug*, Pfhorrest.
(oops.)

Wrong Thread for that.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


User avatar
K-R
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:42 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby K-R » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:12 am UTC

GMail has suddenly decided that Twitter and eBay count as 'spam', and no amount of marking-as-not-spam and custom never-mark-as-spam-from-these-addresses filters will change its mind.

Also PM notification emails from another forum.


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