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The Mighty Thesaurus
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:36 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Second-rate Fingernail's imaginary lesbian friends

We aren't entirely imaginary.
LE4dGOLEM wrote:your ability to tell things from things remains one of your skills.
Weeks wrote:Not only can you tell things from things, you can recognize when a thing is a thing

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K-R
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby K-R » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:37 pm UTC

My willingness to experiment varies based on 1) the importance of what I'm trying to do and 2) the risks associated with pushing the wrong thing.

If I feel like a button might have a serious negative consequence, I'll avoid pushing it. Of course, sometimes there are buttons that have such a consequence but don't seem like they will, which is particularly frustrating.

But to take the SnapChat example: I had to Google how to do the face-morphing filters, because there was no indication within the app of how to do that (or even that they existed). And with Metro, which I mentioned earlier: you walk up to an object, and a hand icon appears on the screen. So...is that to pick up the object, or use it? Which button is associated with that action?

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Angua
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Angua » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:46 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:There was a link. There was an actual link to the actual comic with the actual supercharged zapping. That comic has a "next" button.

The next comic shows the target of the supercharged zapping standing very awkwardly due to the enormous size of her breasts resulting from the supercharged zapping.

The person who did the zapping already has larger breasts than her target had. Hers would, presumably, have been even bigger had she zapped herself.

People in .....

Look, I clicked on the link. I even clicked forward to the next comment and considered mentioning that you should have linked straight to that one as it has what you're complaining about (the first one just shows beams of light, pretty useless) because you made me have to load more pages just to see what you were complaining about. It was very inefficient and I figured there were other fish to fry, however apparently I need to analyse everything single word you say or I'm not paying enough attention.

I personally saw that as her bending forwards because she was looking at them, and also because that's the pose that these characters tend to be drawn in to emphasise cleavage, in no way did it occur to me that it might be because she literally can't straighten. Like, sure the breasts are large, but she's apparently a superpowered strong woman anyway so I imagine her extensor muscles will be pretty strong anyway.

You're complaining about us not reading your posts, meanwhile telling me that I don't know the meaning of the word 'or'.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby ucim » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:06 pm UTC

MuEta wrote:But a hesitancy to experiment (which is what I noted about my parents and possibly their generation as a whole) won't make them learn it any faster.
Pushing buttons has consequences. On computers, especially those connected to the internet, they have hidden consequences. App writers want us to believe that it's ok to just "push buttons". But it's not.

It doesn't hurt the designer any if we lose our work. And it helps shady designers when we (as a group) learn to just "trust" software, the same way so many people think it's ok to click on an unbidden .exe in an email.

Experimenting safely requires an understanding of how these things work. Those who understand people but do not understand computers are validly reluctant to just click things. But those who have not yet met reality unexpectedly will just click until "something" happens. Sure, you can't hurt the hardware, and you can't hurt the developer. But you can hurt your data, and you can get yourself into a very frustrating hole.

Maybe a hesitance to experiment will help software developers write better software.

Jose
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Sableagle
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Sableagle » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:38 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.

You'd think by now there'd be a cookie somewhere on my computer that tells the website "DUDE! THIS GUY ALREADY CLICKED THAT NOTIFICATION LIKE A DOZEN TIMES SO STOP TELLING HIM ALREADY!" but no, I still get that pop-up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
Further to this, I do wonder how often people change their email addresses. Steam seems to feel the need to check mine every week. That can't be necessary, can it? Start Steam, click "yes," refresh inbox, get code, enter code into Steam, play a game, exit Steam.


Fractal_Tangent wrote:Sableagle, I really don't mind people being like 'I'd like a greater variety of bodies in my smut'. That's totally fine. I don't even mind 'This isn't what turns me on and I didn't vote for it' also a good sentiment. 'I don't like big tits, they look stupid' - nope.

More bodies are glorious, every color and size.
Do we have different definitions of "big" here? Does DD count as "small" to you? Is 66-24-36 "medium" where you live? My complaint was that people keep requesting and voting for transformation of "more bodies, every colour and size" into "more bodies, every colour and every size from GGGG to ZZZZ" (or however sizes beyond D work), at the expense of ... well, beauty, to me, but also things like the two pinup examples cited by someone who apparently didn't start off with the assumption that I'm a sexist, racist, murderous cunt, a child molester, an imbecile, semi-literate an 14 before even looking at half the words I'd posted (thanks for that, by the way).

Flumble wrote:Why would they? Sableagle isn't condemning the existence of large breasts but the ubiquity in media.
Thank you, too, for also actually reading and understanding rather than seeing dark pixels and leaping to a conclusion without checking their arrangement.

Sableagle wrote:They had a variety of breast sizes, too. So do the characters in EGS. Default Nanase is pretty well endowed. Ellen's definitely curvy. At one point Elliot calls them "Exhibit Ds," as in D-cup. Grace goes up to that size at will, too. We've already seen Ellen zap herself and gain enough cup sizes to undo three blouse buttons. A single dose of "tea" is enough for "that's gonna be awkward" sizes in a lot of cases. FV5 turns A-cups to D-cups. EGS has small breasts, normal breasts, large breasts and very large breasts already, particularly if you count a date at the mall.
This? This wasn't a complaint. It's all in the inflection. That was description of something with which I don't have a problem.

Sableagle wrote:Come survey time, the most popular suggestions for pin-ups are almost all "Ellen supercharged-zapping herself" and "quadruple Tea" and things like that. I'm not talking about people requesting that we get some C- and D-cups for once rather than all characters having A or B cup sizes. The supercharged zap in question results in breasts so large that it's physically impossible to stand up straight. I'm talking about each one having a circumference greater than the owner's waist measurement. Supercharged zapping doesn't result in an F-cup instead of a D-cup. It ... you know what? I can't tell a J from an S, but it goes OTT. Anyone who already has breasts THAT big either got them on purpose to appeal to some really sad specimens of "men" or already feel bad about it due to back problems, and probably can't read this thread anyway due to them getting in the way of the keyboard ... and the Patreon feed seems to be the target of a takeover by a mob of people who (a) don't think that went far enough and
(b) want to apply it to every female character everywhere all the time.
THAT part was the part I don't like. Maybe we need some sort of colour-coding or something, with various shades between #000000, #00FF00, #00FFFF and #0000FF indicating various levels of approval, disapproval and sarcasm ... or Fractal_Tangent needs to read the actual posts all the way through, think about what they might mean, re-read them and check how well they seem to match each interpretation rather than the equivalent of shooting the first black man you see within half a mile of the crime scene.

SecondTalon wrote:
Flumble wrote:
poxic wrote:Also, large-breasted women reading your rant are probably going to feel pretty bad about themselves. Media behaviour is not really their fault.

Why would they? Sableagle isn't condemning the existence of large breasts but the ubiquity in media.
While that may have been Sable's intention, the words chosen essentially boil down to "large breasted women are terrible, no exceptions."
No, they don't. Actually, they boil down to: "Breast size isn't the most interesting thing about a woman, women don't need to have breasts too big for a Spitfire's cockpit to be good people, attractive, pleasant company or fun to have at a party and I'd like you kids to leave some room for something else on the polls." You only get "large breasted women are terrible, no exceptions," if you totally ignore my post and base your misunderstanding entirely on
Fractal_Tangent wrote:'I don't like big tits, they look stupid'
... or on something the Flying Spaghetti Monster / the invisible pink unicorn in a teapot halfway to Mars / Jesus / Bob the Lemming told you in a dream.

SecondTalon wrote:I'd argue that the words used were insufficient to clarify the statements as one person's opinion acknowledging that both possessors and people who desire large breasts are a-okay, just not his thing.
So you want me to add a line to my .sig acknowledging that I'm aware that I'm only one person, do you?

SecondTalon wrote:It's not okay to put down people with large breasts or people interested in large breasts just because you're not.
"I got a new car this week."
"What'd ya get?"
"Aygo."
"What model?"
"Base model, nothing fancy. Gets decent mileage, plenty of headroom, comfortable enough."
"How's it handle?"
"Very nicely. Not right fast from 60 to 70 on the motorway, but does pretty well 0-40 because it's so light."
"Cool."

... versus ...

"I got a new car this week."
"What'd ya get?"
"Aygo."
"What model? What's the bore and stroke? What compression ratio does it get? Have you had the valve timing adjusted? Can you get a chip for that to give it efficiency and sport modes or is it just single-mode? Have you looked into adjusting the accelerator travel? I think you can fit an Audi turbo to that with the right conversion kit. You've got to lower the suspension on those cars to shave 0.03 seconds off your 0-60 time, you know. Hey, have you got the original body moulds? You can get sleeker ones that'll reduce your drag and improve your overtaking performance. You need to swap the tyres for harder ones to really make use of it, though. It'll go faster if you take out the rear seats, too, and your ignition timing's going to get sloppy if you use the original spark plugs so you should get rid of them and put some iridium ones in, and get a large-bore exhaust with a fake muffler to reduce the power loss there. You've got to lose the recirculation pipe. That's just for emissions testing, so leave it off until you're due for an MOT. You can reduce weight by taking out the speaker wires, too, because you don-"
"Jesus Christ, dude, I use it for delivering coffee tables and bird boxes. It's going to do about 2000 miles a year. Chill."
"You don't race?"
"I race dinghies."
"Dinghies?"
"Yeah. Look up the Boss and Buzz classes. Pretty intense stuff at high levels."
"You at high levels?"
"No, but my cousin is."
"Your cousin? What kind of car does he drive? What model? What's the bore and stroke? What compression ratio does it get? Has he had the valve timing adjusted? Has it got a chi-"
"DUDE!"

See any difference at all? No?

SecondTalon wrote:And that last bit is how Sable was coming across
... to Fractal_Tangent.

Angua wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Supercharged zapping[/url] doesn't result in an F-cup instead of a D-cup. It ... you know what? I can't tell a J from an S, but it goes OTT.
I have seen people with breasts that size.[/quote]J? S? TT? Really?

Sableagle wrote:... either got them on purpose to appeal to some really sad specimens of "men" or already feel bad about it due to back problems, and probably can't read this thread anyway due to them getting in the way of the keyboard


Angua wrote:I read the options - they were either that the women did it on purpose or unable to read a monitor and type on a computer.
:roll:

SecondTalon wrote:... angry, spiteful piece of shit ...
Now ... is that trolling or flaming? It's hard to be sure. I'll have to ask a moderator.

SecondTalon wrote:I know when I'm being an asshole, and do it intentionally.
How can you tell when a politician is lying? His lips are moving.
SecondTalon wrote:... ignore thousands of large breasted women ...
Again, see above. Is an S-cup considered natural and "large" where you are? Is it quite common to see women with more fat in each breast than in the rest of their whole bodies? Do you often see this sort of figure on women in your neighbourhood?

No?

Do you wish you did?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:Hey, hey Sableagle.

Fuck off. You fuck right off now.
Hmm.
Forum_Rules wrote: Standard forum rules apply; no flaming, no trolling, no spamming.
Well, I hope that's not spam, because here I am replying to it. Is it flaming or trolling, though? I don't know. Let's ask a moderator, preferably a moderate one.

Flumble wrote:Fascinating.
I really don't understand why sableagle is getting so much hate. (unless there's a history of which I'm blissfully unaware) Perhaps I'm biased because I don't have breasts. Perhaps I'm reading his posts differently because I agree with the sentiment that it's weird that a large majority of the (paying) EGS audience would want more huge-breasted pin-ups, when you can have more of this and this. (note to self: not really bothered with (unhealthy) breast size, but just a sucker for intimacy)
As I mentioned, thank you.

Here's another, by a different artist:

Spoiler:
Image


Tangled mess, hair all over the show, limbs wherever they fit, clothing in disarray, nothing like what you'd probably expect from a pin-up, and neither of them cares one jot because they're looking at each other and glad to be able to do so.

Sweet, isn't it?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:If it were a simple 'These animated sexy ladies don't turn me on' that would be great. We all understand that some people are into things that others aren't.
1) They're not animated. You didn't check, did you?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:It's the constant comparing women who have large breasts to tomatoes
2) Constant? Really, constant? I posted the tomato image exactly once and it was as a comparison to what that part of the fanclub seems to want, not to any women existing in the EGS universe or ours. You didn't read it, did you?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:saying that they can't see over their screens
3) I'm fairly sure "probably can't read this thread anyway due to them getting in the way of the keyboard" doesn't say they can't see over their screens. You didn't read what I posted, did you?
4) On a technical point, why would they need to see over their screens to read the thread? You didn't even check what you posted, did you?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:It's possible not to want to bang something and still be respectful.
It's also possible to want to bang something ("your heads together" is what springs to mind) and still show more respect (I used capital letters in your usernames) than really seems appropriate.

SecondTalon wrote:But mostly it's the treating of women with large breasts as being awful.
Yyyyyep. That. That which you imagined, after reading Fractal_Tangent's post but none of mine.

Carlington wrote:Things it's okay to say:
I don't like large breasts.
I do like large breasts.

Things it's not okay to say:
Liking large breasts is bad.
Not liking large breasts is bad.
Having large breasts is bad.
Not having large breasts is bad.

Things Sableagle is saying:
I don't like large breasts. (okay)
Others do like large breasts. (okay)
Liking large breasts is bad. (not okay)
Therefore, the people who like large breasts are bad. (not okay)
Having large breasts is bad, except in specific cases where I say it's not. (really not okay)

That last one is semi-implied through tone and phrasing, but it's there. There's also a smidgen of concern-trolling (I'm just worried about their spinal health!) which is not okay and a bit dishonest.

Although many people have previously tried to make this as simple as possible, it seems to have failed. I don't know why I think this will work, but I literally don't know if this can be broken down any further.

(Ninja'd, same.)
Who is this weirdo you people keep quoting and somehow mistaking for me, and why can't I see any of his or her posts?

Oh, wait. No, you're just another person who doesn't take the time to read what was actually posted, check the links, read what was actually posted and figure out what the words mean in context, aren't you?

ucim wrote:Seems to me the issue is simply the objectification of a body part, especially for commercial gain. Objectification usually entails a "bigger is better" viewpoint (especially for sexual body parts, which have more commercial potential), and for it to work, the audience has to buy into it. It's the objectification that's "not ok", not the preference or the body part itself.

Is this what you're aiming at, Sableagle?

Jose
edit: fix misspelling of Sableagle


It's ... probably a side-effect or co-effect or something like that of the objectification. *memory search* Girls With Slingshots, I think ... *search* ... Yeah, GWS, and specifically this kid. Actually, I was trying to find the "porn zombies" entry, but that kid'll do. He's consistent, even when it's an even worse idea. Somewhere there's ... a horde of porn zobmies. I was right. It was Girls With Slingshots. I seem to be sharing Dan's Patreon feed feedback space with them.

eran_rathan wrote:Sable, you're being a dick. Don't be a dick.


Well, I don't want to be a Cale. So, would you prefer me to be the priestess or the bard?

Weeks wrote:OH MY GOD THESE ROLLING PINS

WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL THESE ROLLING PINS
I suggest you put that question to a vote on 4chan. Thank them for their guidance with photographs.

gmalivuk wrote:You can complain about the objectification of breasts without shitting on people with large breasts (whether natural or surgical).
I'm not into people shitting on each other either, but fortunately for me, neither's Dan.

gmalivuk wrote:Did you mis the word "reduction"? Did you misread your own post? Or are you the one who doesn't understand "or"?
"mis" :?:

Weeks wrote:I'm personally a big proponent of thinking about what you're gonna say *before* you post it.
Hey, there's a thing. I'm a proponent of reading what people actually posted before you respond to it!

Weeks wrote:I mean, nobody does that on purpose.
What, literally or figuratively? If you mean nobody shits on other people on purpose literally, you're in for a nasty shock if you ever bother to research that claim (or a pleasant surprise if you turn out to be into that kind of thing, I suppose). If you mean nobody is an arsehole to other people on purpose, well, you're in for a nasty shock if you ever go outside and also clearly either haven't read this thread or don't believe your fellow posters ...

SecondTalon wrote:I know when I'm being an asshole, and do it intentionally.


Weeks wrote:I mean benefit of the doubt! Sorry.
... which wouldn't surprise me, as you're a liar and liars often expect other people to lie to them.

Carlington wrote:I've read every word of each of your posts about this comic, Sableagle.
One word at a time, at ten-minute intervals, while watching two confusing films in four-minute bursts?
You're making it abundantly clear that you've not extended the same courtesy to me, or to anyone else who has criticised you in this thread.
See above. I've actually got a bad habit of reading pretty much everything, including telephone keypads and the safe use instructions for equipment that's already been uninstalled and recycled.

Carlington wrote:I can't speak for them, but I'm insulted by your disregard for mine and their efforts.
That should be "my" not "mine," because you're claiming to be insulted by disregard for your efforts, not by disregard for yours. You could have said "disregard for their efforts and mine," putting yourself after them as is customary when saying things like: "Claire and I would both like you to direct your attention to something other than her arse for the remainder of the night. I suggest something at least quarter of a mile away, as a safety precaution."

See? I noticed the actual word. Where I got told to fuck off, I saw those actual words. I also saw the "fuck right off" that followed them. Where I got called a dick, I saw the words "a" and "dick," twice each because they were repeated. Where I got called spiteful, I saw the words "angry, spiteful piece of shit," all five of them, not just the word "spiteful." Maybe you sincerely believe you read the entire page, and maybe you sincerely believe everybody has been very respectful and polite and the only person calling anyone a piece of shit was me, which would confirm that you did not, in fact, read the entire page. Maybe you sincerely believe that your computer is powered by an invisible pink unicorn in a teapot halfway to Mars. I wouldn't know whether you believe any of those things. I do know that I find the notion that the only correct response to "fuck off, you spiteful piece of shit" is "Thank you for correcting this unworthy one's ways, Mistress" to be offensive ... and, in case it's not clear, I mean that I find the notion that my only correct option for responding to "fuck off, you spiteful piece of shit" is "Thank you for correcting this unworthy one's ways, Mistress" to be offensive to me. If you're seriously offended that I apparently disregarded someone's instructions to fuck off, then I suggest you either get the hell over it or meet me somewhere quiet, tell me about it to my face and swing a punch, because I do not take Fractal_Tangent's inability to read my posts and Second_Talon's weird desire to find excuses to be offended by everything I post and everything Fractal_Tangent apparently imagines I post to be grounds for grovelling.

Carlington wrote:It's a shame that you've embarrassed yourself in this way.
I'm not embarassed. Crazy though it may seem to you, I am not embarassed by somebody else imagining that I posted something, or by somebody else reading every fifteenth character, inventing a whole conversation loosely based on them and getting upset by it. I'm not embarassed by you claiming to have read every word I've posted, either, or by Adolf Hitler being dead, or by Stonehenge having grass growing near it.

Carlington wrote:The pleasant regard I previously held you in has been tarnished. You've behaved in a childish, petulant manner and it's really disgraceful.
Well, mommy dearest, I don't actually know who the fuck you are. As far as I can tell, you think everyone's entitled to tell me how to stand, how to tie my shoelaces, where to stand, what to eat, how to hold my fork, when to leave the table, how much juice is enough, what I know, what I think, what I feel and what I said and totally ignore my opinions on any and all of those things. I disagree. I'm not going to say I respectfully disagree. That would be a lie at this point. I disagree.

Carlington wrote:When people raised genuine objections to the way you were writing
If you'd actually read everything, you ought to have been able to figure out for yourself that THEY DIDN'T.

Carlington wrote:you threw an entitled tantrum
Oh, look, entitlement, that thing you believe everyone but me has, right, mommy dearest?

Carlington wrote:and have not so much as gestured in the direction of listening and taking their words into account.
You want a gesture?

Image

Carlington wrote:I just think it would be fucking top-class if you said less sexist stuff and were more open to criticism.
1) READ THE FUCKING WORDS I POSTED, RATHER THAN THE BOLLOCKS F_T *IMAGINES* I POSTED.

READ
WHAT
I
POSTED


Seriously, go and look at the actual posts that actually came from this account and read the actual words in them and THINK!

2) There are a few really significant differences between constructive criticism given in a respectful manner and immediate condemnation based on things that weren't even said in the first place. If someone shows you a landscape painting and you spend a while studying it and comparing it to the landscape it's meant to represent, then suggest using larger brushes to make the background a little less sharp because it's not the main focus, that's kind of constructive criticism (as long as you know what you're on about, of course). If someone shows you a landscape painting and you immediately accuse them of wanting to drive the Jews into the sea, finish what Hitler started, tear up the US Constitution, demolish the Brandenburg Gate, burn down the Vatican and rape a slow loris, that's not constructive criticism and nobody should have to listen to your bullshit.

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Second-rate Fingernail's imaginary lesbian friends

We aren't entirely imaginary.


Unless your breasts are as large relative to your waist as the ones shown in frame 1 of this image:

Image

... you're not the lesbian friend with breasts that large in question, are you?

Angua wrote:You're complaining about us not reading your posts, meanwhile telling me that I don't know the meaning of the word 'or'.
Well, maybe I was wrong about that. Maybe it was the comma that had you foxed.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Magnanimous
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:15 pm UTC

y'all real mad

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Fractal_Tangent
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Fractal_Tangent » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:34 pm UTC

Ok, so I said screen instead of keyboard. So sue me.

Edit: I also said animated when I meant cartoon. It's because my tomatoes are in the way of the screen.
eSOANEM wrote:
right now, that means it's Nazi punching time.


she/her/hers
=]

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Sizik » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:16 am UTC

Sableagle wrote:Further to this, I do wonder how often people change their email addresses. Steam seems to feel the need to check mine every week. That can't be necessary, can it? Start Steam, click "yes," refresh inbox, get code, enter code into Steam, play a game, exit Steam.


You can just not close Steam.
gmalivuk wrote:
King Author wrote:If space (rather, distance) is an illusion, it'd be possible for one meta-me to experience both body's sensory inputs.
Yes. And if wishes were horses, wishing wells would fill up very quickly with drowned horses.

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Flumble
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:44 am UTC

Phew, finally caught up to the arc of EGS where I started reading (if you'd like to know why: webcomics tend to shift in style and quality over time, so for a good impression without spoiling too much, I start in medias res), BUT I'M STILL ONLY HALFWAY. :shock:

It's both a blessing and a curse.

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Carlington
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Carlington » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:06 am UTC

If you think that what you wrote means one thing, and nearly everyone else who reads it thinks it means another thing, it might mean that you're not using the right words for what you're trying to say. I imagine that this post will inspire more vitriol from you so I'm going to stop now because I don't want that today or ever.
Kewangji: Posdy zwei tosdy osdy oady. Bork bork bork, hoppity syphilis bork.

Eebster the Great: What specifically is moving faster than light in these examples?
doogly: Hands waving furiously.

Please use he/him/his pronouns when referring to me.

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Weeks
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Weeks » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:12 am UTC

Sableagle wrote:
Sableagle wrote:I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.
I am aware that blogspot.co.uk uses cookies.

You'd think by now there'd be a cookie somewhere on my computer that tells the website "DUDE! THIS GUY ALREADY CLICKED THAT NOTIFICATION LIKE A DOZEN TIMES SO STOP TELLING HIM ALREADY!" but no, I still get that pop-up again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
Further to this, I do wonder how often people change their email addresses. Steam seems to feel the need to check mine every week. That can't be necessary, can it? Start Steam, click "yes," refresh inbox, get code, enter code into Steam, play a game, exit Steam.


Fractal_Tangent wrote:Sableagle, I really don't mind people being like 'I'd like a greater variety of bodies in my smut'. That's totally fine. I don't even mind 'This isn't what turns me on and I didn't vote for it' also a good sentiment. 'I don't like big tits, they look stupid' - nope.

More bodies are glorious, every color and size.
Do we have different definitions of "big" here? Does DD count as "small" to you? Is 66-24-36 "medium" where you live? My complaint was that people keep requesting and voting for transformation of "more bodies, every colour and size" into "more bodies, every colour and every size from GGGG to ZZZZ" (or however sizes beyond D work), at the expense of ... well, beauty, to me, but also things like the two pinup examples cited by someone who apparently didn't start off with the assumption that I'm a sexist, racist, murderous cunt, a child molester, an imbecile, semi-literate an 14 before even looking at half the words I'd posted (thanks for that, by the way).

Flumble wrote:Why would they? Sableagle isn't condemning the existence of large breasts but the ubiquity in media.
Thank you, too, for also actually reading and understanding rather than seeing dark pixels and leaping to a conclusion without checking their arrangement.

Sableagle wrote:They had a variety of breast sizes, too. So do the characters in EGS. Default Nanase is pretty well endowed. Ellen's definitely curvy. At one point Elliot calls them "Exhibit Ds," as in D-cup. Grace goes up to that size at will, too. We've already seen Ellen zap herself and gain enough cup sizes to undo three blouse buttons. A single dose of "tea" is enough for "that's gonna be awkward" sizes in a lot of cases. FV5 turns A-cups to D-cups. EGS has small breasts, normal breasts, large breasts and very large breasts already, particularly if you count a date at the mall.
This? This wasn't a complaint. It's all in the inflection. That was description of something with which I don't have a problem.

Sableagle wrote:Come survey time, the most popular suggestions for pin-ups are almost all "Ellen supercharged-zapping herself" and "quadruple Tea" and things like that. I'm not talking about people requesting that we get some C- and D-cups for once rather than all characters having A or B cup sizes. The supercharged zap in question results in breasts so large that it's physically impossible to stand up straight. I'm talking about each one having a circumference greater than the owner's waist measurement. Supercharged zapping doesn't result in an F-cup instead of a D-cup. It ... you know what? I can't tell a J from an S, but it goes OTT. Anyone who already has breasts THAT big either got them on purpose to appeal to some really sad specimens of "men" or already feel bad about it due to back problems, and probably can't read this thread anyway due to them getting in the way of the keyboard ... and the Patreon feed seems to be the target of a takeover by a mob of people who (a) don't think that went far enough and
(b) want to apply it to every female character everywhere all the time.
THAT part was the part I don't like. Maybe we need some sort of colour-coding or something, with various shades between #000000, #00FF00, #00FFFF and #0000FF indicating various levels of approval, disapproval and sarcasm ... or Fractal_Tangent needs to read the actual posts all the way through, think about what they might mean, re-read them and check how well they seem to match each interpretation rather than the equivalent of shooting the first black man you see within half a mile of the crime scene.

SecondTalon wrote:
Flumble wrote:
poxic wrote:Also, large-breasted women reading your rant are probably going to feel pretty bad about themselves. Media behaviour is not really their fault.

Why would they? Sableagle isn't condemning the existence of large breasts but the ubiquity in media.
While that may have been Sable's intention, the words chosen essentially boil down to "large breasted women are terrible, no exceptions."
No, they don't. Actually, they boil down to: "Breast size isn't the most interesting thing about a woman, women don't need to have breasts too big for a Spitfire's cockpit to be good people, attractive, pleasant company or fun to have at a party and I'd like you kids to leave some room for something else on the polls." You only get "large breasted women are terrible, no exceptions," if you totally ignore my post and base your misunderstanding entirely on
Fractal_Tangent wrote:'I don't like big tits, they look stupid'
... or on something the Flying Spaghetti Monster / the invisible pink unicorn in a teapot halfway to Mars / Jesus / Bob the Lemming told you in a dream.

SecondTalon wrote:I'd argue that the words used were insufficient to clarify the statements as one person's opinion acknowledging that both possessors and people who desire large breasts are a-okay, just not his thing.
So you want me to add a line to my .sig acknowledging that I'm aware that I'm only one person, do you?

SecondTalon wrote:It's not okay to put down people with large breasts or people interested in large breasts just because you're not.
"I got a new car this week."
"What'd ya get?"
"Aygo."
"What model?"
"Base model, nothing fancy. Gets decent mileage, plenty of headroom, comfortable enough."
"How's it handle?"
"Very nicely. Not right fast from 60 to 70 on the motorway, but does pretty well 0-40 because it's so light."
"Cool."

... versus ...

"I got a new car this week."
"What'd ya get?"
"Aygo."
"What model? What's the bore and stroke? What compression ratio does it get? Have you had the valve timing adjusted? Can you get a chip for that to give it efficiency and sport modes or is it just single-mode? Have you looked into adjusting the accelerator travel? I think you can fit an Audi turbo to that with the right conversion kit. You've got to lower the suspension on those cars to shave 0.03 seconds off your 0-60 time, you know. Hey, have you got the original body moulds? You can get sleeker ones that'll reduce your drag and improve your overtaking performance. You need to swap the tyres for harder ones to really make use of it, though. It'll go faster if you take out the rear seats, too, and your ignition timing's going to get sloppy if you use the original spark plugs so you should get rid of them and put some iridium ones in, and get a large-bore exhaust with a fake muffler to reduce the power loss there. You've got to lose the recirculation pipe. That's just for emissions testing, so leave it off until you're due for an MOT. You can reduce weight by taking out the speaker wires, too, because you don-"
"Jesus Christ, dude, I use it for delivering coffee tables and bird boxes. It's going to do about 2000 miles a year. Chill."
"You don't race?"
"I race dinghies."
"Dinghies?"
"Yeah. Look up the Boss and Buzz classes. Pretty intense stuff at high levels."
"You at high levels?"
"No, but my cousin is."
"Your cousin? What kind of car does he drive? What model? What's the bore and stroke? What compression ratio does it get? Has he had the valve timing adjusted? Has it got a chi-"
"DUDE!"

See any difference at all? No?

SecondTalon wrote:And that last bit is how Sable was coming across
... to Fractal_Tangent.

Angua wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Supercharged zapping doesn't result in an F-cup instead of a D-cup. It ... you know what? I can't tell a J from an S, but it goes OTT.
I have seen people with breasts that size.
J? S? TT? Really?

Sableagle wrote:... either got them on purpose to appeal to some really sad specimens of "men" or already feel bad about it due to back problems, and probably can't read this thread anyway due to them getting in the way of the keyboard


Angua wrote:I read the options - they were either that the women did it on purpose or unable to read a monitor and type on a computer.
:roll:

SecondTalon wrote:... angry, spiteful piece of shit ...
Now ... is that trolling or flaming? It's hard to be sure. I'll have to ask a moderator.

SecondTalon wrote:I know when I'm being an asshole, and do it intentionally.
How can you tell when a politician is lying? His lips are moving.
SecondTalon wrote:... ignore thousands of large breasted women ...
Again, see above. Is an S-cup considered natural and "large" where you are? Is it quite common to see women with more fat in each breast than in the rest of their whole bodies? Do you often see this sort of figure on women in your neighbourhood?

No?

Do you wish you did?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:Hey, hey Sableagle.

Fuck off. You fuck right off now.
Hmm.
Forum_Rules wrote: Standard forum rules apply; no flaming, no trolling, no spamming.
Well, I hope that's not spam, because here I am replying to it. Is it flaming or trolling, though? I don't know. Let's ask a moderator, preferably a moderate one.

Flumble wrote:Fascinating.
I really don't understand why sableagle is getting so much hate. (unless there's a history of which I'm blissfully unaware) Perhaps I'm biased because I don't have breasts. Perhaps I'm reading his posts differently because I agree with the sentiment that it's weird that a large majority of the (paying) EGS audience would want more huge-breasted pin-ups, when you can have more of this and this. (note to self: not really bothered with (unhealthy) breast size, but just a sucker for intimacy)
As I mentioned, thank you.

Here's another, by a different artist:

Spoiler:
Image


Tangled mess, hair all over the show, limbs wherever they fit, clothing in disarray, nothing like what you'd probably expect from a pin-up, and neither of them cares one jot because they're looking at each other and glad to be able to do so.

Sweet, isn't it?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:If it were a simple 'These animated sexy ladies don't turn me on' that would be great. We all understand that some people are into things that others aren't.
1) They're not animated. You didn't check, did you?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:It's the constant comparing women who have large breasts to tomatoes
2) Constant? Really, constant? I posted the tomato image exactly once and it was as a comparison to what that part of the fanclub seems to want, not to any women existing in the EGS universe or ours. You didn't read it, did you?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:saying that they can't see over their screens
3) I'm fairly sure "probably can't read this thread anyway due to them getting in the way of the keyboard" doesn't say they can't see over their screens. You didn't read what I posted, did you?
4) On a technical point, why would they need to see over their screens to read the thread? You didn't even check what you posted, did you?

Fractal_Tangent wrote:It's possible not to want to bang something and still be respectful.
It's also possible to want to bang something ("your heads together" is what springs to mind) and still show more respect (I used capital letters in your usernames) than really seems appropriate.

SecondTalon wrote:But mostly it's the treating of women with large breasts as being awful.
Yyyyyep. That. That which you imagined, after reading Fractal_Tangent's post but none of mine.

Carlington wrote:Things it's okay to say:
I don't like large breasts.
I do like large breasts.

Things it's not okay to say:
Liking large breasts is bad.
Not liking large breasts is bad.
Having large breasts is bad.
Not having large breasts is bad.

Things Sableagle is saying:
I don't like large breasts. (okay)
Others do like large breasts. (okay)
Liking large breasts is bad. (not okay)
Therefore, the people who like large breasts are bad. (not okay)
Having large breasts is bad, except in specific cases where I say it's not. (really not okay)

That last one is semi-implied through tone and phrasing, but it's there. There's also a smidgen of concern-trolling (I'm just worried about their spinal health!) which is not okay and a bit dishonest.

Although many people have previously tried to make this as simple as possible, it seems to have failed. I don't know why I think this will work, but I literally don't know if this can be broken down any further.

(Ninja'd, same.)
Who is this weirdo you people keep quoting and somehow mistaking for me, and why can't I see any of his or her posts?

Oh, wait. No, you're just another person who doesn't take the time to read what was actually posted, check the links, read what was actually posted and figure out what the words mean in context, aren't you?

ucim wrote:Seems to me the issue is simply the objectification of a body part, especially for commercial gain. Objectification usually entails a "bigger is better" viewpoint (especially for sexual body parts, which have more commercial potential), and for it to work, the audience has to buy into it. It's the objectification that's "not ok", not the preference or the body part itself.

Is this what you're aiming at, Sableagle?

Jose
edit: fix misspelling of Sableagle


It's ... probably a side-effect or co-effect or something like that of the objectification. *memory search* Girls With Slingshots, I think ... *search* ... Yeah, GWS, and specifically this kid. Actually, I was trying to find the "porn zombies" entry, but that kid'll do. He's consistent, even when it's an even worse idea. Somewhere there's ... a horde of porn zobmies. I was right. It was Girls With Slingshots. I seem to be sharing Dan's Patreon feed feedback space with them.

eran_rathan wrote:Sable, you're being a dick. Don't be a dick.


Well, I don't want to be a Cale. So, would you prefer me to be the priestess or the bard?

Weeks wrote:OH MY GOD THESE ROLLING PINS

WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL THESE ROLLING PINS
I suggest you put that question to a vote on 4chan. Thank them for their guidance with photographs.

gmalivuk wrote:You can complain about the objectification of breasts without shitting on people with large breasts (whether natural or surgical).
I'm not into people shitting on each other either, but fortunately for me, neither's Dan.

gmalivuk wrote:Did you mis the word "reduction"? Did you misread your own post? Or are you the one who doesn't understand "or"?
"mis" :?:

Weeks wrote:I'm personally a big proponent of thinking about what you're gonna say *before* you post it.
Hey, there's a thing. I'm a proponent of reading what people actually posted before you respond to it!

Weeks wrote:I mean, nobody does that on purpose.
What, literally or figuratively? If you mean nobody shits on other people on purpose literally, you're in for a nasty shock if you ever bother to research that claim (or a pleasant surprise if you turn out to be into that kind of thing, I suppose). If you mean nobody is an arsehole to other people on purpose, well, you're in for a nasty shock if you ever go outside and also clearly either haven't read this thread or don't believe your fellow posters ...

SecondTalon wrote:I know when I'm being an asshole, and do it intentionally.


Weeks wrote:I mean benefit of the doubt! Sorry.
... which wouldn't surprise me, as you're a liar and liars often expect other people to lie to them.

Carlington wrote:I've read every word of each of your posts about this comic, Sableagle.
One word at a time, at ten-minute intervals, while watching two confusing films in four-minute bursts?
You're making it abundantly clear that you've not extended the same courtesy to me, or to anyone else who has criticised you in this thread.
See above. I've actually got a bad habit of reading pretty much everything, including telephone keypads and the safe use instructions for equipment that's already been uninstalled and recycled.

Carlington wrote:I can't speak for them, but I'm insulted by your disregard for mine and their efforts.
That should be "my" not "mine," because you're claiming to be insulted by disregard for your efforts, not by disregard for yours. You could have said "disregard for their efforts and mine," putting yourself after them as is customary when saying things like: "Claire and I would both like you to direct your attention to something other than her arse for the remainder of the night. I suggest something at least quarter of a mile away, as a safety precaution."

See? I noticed the actual word. Where I got told to fuck off, I saw those actual words. I also saw the "fuck right off" that followed them. Where I got called a dick, I saw the words "a" and "dick," twice each because they were repeated. Where I got called spiteful, I saw the words "angry, spiteful piece of shit," all five of them, not just the word "spiteful." Maybe you sincerely believe you read the entire page, and maybe you sincerely believe everybody has been very respectful and polite and the only person calling anyone a piece of shit was me, which would confirm that you did not, in fact, read the entire page. Maybe you sincerely believe that your computer is powered by an invisible pink unicorn in a teapot halfway to Mars. I wouldn't know whether you believe any of those things. I do know that I find the notion that the only correct response to "fuck off, you spiteful piece of shit" is "Thank you for correcting this unworthy one's ways, Mistress" to be offensive ... and, in case it's not clear, I mean that I find the notion that my only correct option for responding to "fuck off, you spiteful piece of shit" is "Thank you for correcting this unworthy one's ways, Mistress" to be offensive to me. If you're seriously offended that I apparently disregarded someone's instructions to fuck off, then I suggest you either get the hell over it or meet me somewhere quiet, tell me about it to my face and swing a punch, because I do not take Fractal_Tangent's inability to read my posts and Second_Talon's weird desire to find excuses to be offended by everything I post and everything Fractal_Tangent apparently imagines I post to be grounds for grovelling.

Carlington wrote:It's a shame that you've embarrassed yourself in this way.
I'm not embarassed. Crazy though it may seem to you, I am not embarassed by somebody else imagining that I posted something, or by somebody else reading every fifteenth character, inventing a whole conversation loosely based on them and getting upset by it. I'm not embarassed by you claiming to have read every word I've posted, either, or by Adolf Hitler being dead, or by Stonehenge having grass growing near it.

Carlington wrote:The pleasant regard I previously held you in has been tarnished. You've behaved in a childish, petulant manner and it's really disgraceful.
Well, mommy dearest, I don't actually know who the fuck you are. As far as I can tell, you think everyone's entitled to tell me how to stand, how to tie my shoelaces, where to stand, what to eat, how to hold my fork, when to leave the table, how much juice is enough, what I know, what I think, what I feel and what I said and totally ignore my opinions on any and all of those things. I disagree. I'm not going to say I respectfully disagree. That would be a lie at this point. I disagree.

Carlington wrote:When people raised genuine objections to the way you were writing
If you'd actually read everything, you ought to have been able to figure out for yourself that THEY DIDN'T.

Carlington wrote:you threw an entitled tantrum
Oh, look, entitlement, that thing you believe everyone but me has, right, mommy dearest?

Carlington wrote:and have not so much as gestured in the direction of listening and taking their words into account.
You want a gesture?

Image

Carlington wrote:I just think it would be fucking top-class if you said less sexist stuff and were more open to criticism.
1) READ THE FUCKING WORDS I POSTED, RATHER THAN THE BOLLOCKS F_T *IMAGINES* I POSTED.

READ
WHAT
I
POSTED


Seriously, go and look at the actual posts that actually came from this account and read the actual words in them and THINK!

2) There are a few really significant differences between constructive criticism given in a respectful manner and immediate condemnation based on things that weren't even said in the first place. If someone shows you a landscape painting and you spend a while studying it and comparing it to the landscape it's meant to represent, then suggest using larger brushes to make the background a little less sharp because it's not the main focus, that's kind of constructive criticism (as long as you know what you're on about, of course). If someone shows you a landscape painting and you immediately accuse them of wanting to drive the Jews into the sea, finish what Hitler started, tear up the US Constitution, demolish the Brandenburg Gate, burn down the Vatican and rape a slow loris, that's not constructive criticism and nobody should have to listen to your bullshit.

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Second-rate Fingernail's imaginary lesbian friends

We aren't entirely imaginary.


Unless your breasts are as large relative to your waist as the ones shown in frame 1 of this image:

Image

... you're not the lesbian friend with breasts that large in question, are you?

Angua wrote:You're complaining about us not reading your posts, meanwhile telling me that I don't know the meaning of the word 'or'.
Well, maybe I was wrong about that. Maybe it was the comma that had you foxed.
TL;DR
NieXS wrote:Oh god that smiley ruined it.
suffer-cait wrote:One day I'm gun a go visit weeks and discover they're just a computer in a trashcan at an ice cream shop.
Mutex wrote:Enjoy the shoe!

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Isaac Hill
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Isaac Hill » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:25 am UTC

MuEta wrote:This is something that I have observed a fair amount with my parent's (baby-boomer generation) vs. my (older side of millenial) generation. Pretty much across the board, when my generation sees an app, we click on the buttons, experiment, and if shit fucks up, we figure out how to un-fuck-ify it. Whereas my mom and dad will always ask me how something works before experimenting.

I'm 38, in the middle of the two age groups you mentioned, and I can see myself getting less patient with learning new UI. I think part of it is when the new way of doing things means the way I'm used to doing them no longer works. I'd made some changes to an image using some Windows editor. I wanted to save the changes so I hit ctrl-S like I've done for most programs I've used over the previous decade-and-a-half. That brought up some other window with options I'd never heard of. I canceled out of this window and tried ctrl-S again, thinking i'd hit the wrong key. No, they'd just changed that shortcut. Also, I was used to closing a program without saving if I'd made things worse. Now, it autosaves on exit.

That then makes learning new ways seem like an exercie in futility. Why put in the effort to learn the new way if they're just going to change it again? It just makes learning the next new way more difficult since I've got one more wrong way in my head conflicting with what I actually need to do. This is especially bad for programs I only use sporadically. I still haven't learned to use the MS Office ribbon very well, since I only write in Word when I'm doing a report for a project, and a project takes 2 or 3 years to complete, plenty of time for UI upgrades.

Yakk wrote:What more, "<- Undo" itself isn't clear: is it undo one step, or is it undo back to the start of the puzzle, or is it undo trying this puzzle, or is it undo your account creating and discard all your progress? In a sense, you have to assume that the designer of the app doesn't have one-click "destroy all my work" buttons on it before you even press "<- Undo". You'd need a paragraph of help text.

Execpt common usage has pretty much decided that "Undo" means undo one step. Undoing back to the start of the puzzle would be something like "Reset". Undoing your account would be "Delete Account". No UI designer acting in good faith would make the word "Undo" perform either of the latter two actions because no one would expect it to.

I understand why pictures are popular for UI designers. It's not that translating words like "Undo" or "Reset" is difficult. It's that the translated words will not be the same length as the English ones, and require changes to fit everything, especially on a small screen. Every language requires a new layout. Ideally, a common set of images would be developed so that once you learn them on one program, you'd know what they mean on others. If every designer were to use a "1" with a Ghostbusters/No Parking circle-slash over it to mean undo 1 step, every user will understand that once they've used their 2nd app.
Alleged "poems"
that don't follow a rhyme scheme
are not poetry

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Angua » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:36 am UTC

Well done on the quote sniping, but at this point I feel it more gives off the impression that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Also, maybe so many people said monitor when you said keyboard because that's the only thing that made sense so gave you the benefit of the doubt. Apparently you do actually think you need to be able to see a keyboard to read text on a screen.

Interesting.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Felstaff » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:47 am UTC

Sableagle will be taking a break from this thread for a few days.
Away, you scullion! you rampallion! You fustilarian! I'll tickle your catastrophe.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby New User » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:04 pm UTC

Isaac Hill wrote:If every designer were to use a "1" with a Ghostbusters/No Parking circle-slash over it to mean undo 1 step, every user will understand that once they've used their 2nd app.

Please don't give them any ideas for a new symbol to use for a function that is already widely available in many apps. I also think it's unrealistic to expect every designer to adopt the same symbols, because every UI designer wants theirs to have a unique look, to stand out from the competitor's products. So even if a little circular arrow means "refresh" or a little arrow pointing to the left means "undo" (or sometimes "back" or "previous page" or something like that), they still make those little arrows look slightly different. I have seen an "undo" arrow look like it's pointing up and to the left (like the symbol on your "enter" key on your keyboard, but inverted). Remember the up arrow in the Microsoft file explorer? It takes you to the parent directory, but for many users browsing their files, the parent directory is the one they just came from. So clicking the up arrow takes you to the previous directory (folder), if the folder you're currently browsing was reached from its parent. Back in the Windows XP days, it took me a while of confusing this arrow with the "back" or "previous" function before I realized the difference.

You know, I just thought of something. Remember tape recorders? Remember how they have those symbols for the functions, a square for "stop", a triangle for "play", two vertical lines for "pause", a circle for "record", and the fast forward and rewind symbols as well? I think those symbols were reasonably well-known to consumers in the USA at least. Sometimes they had the words along with they symbols, sometimes not. Was that the same situation we're now experiencing in UI design? Part of my issue here is that some functions in software apps seem to be more universal than others. It has long been established that an X symbol usually means "close" or "exit", a floppy disk symbol means "save" (and how funny is that? many users nowadays probably know that as the save symbol but don't know what a floppy disk looks like), and a microscope means "search", and so forth. But some apps have other, less ubiquitous functions, with ambiguous symbols to go along with them. Sometimes an icon can mean something different depending on which app it's in, for example right now in the browser (firefox) I can see an arrow facing to the left, I know that if I click on it will send me "back" to the previously visited webpage. But in a game of freecell, an arrow facing left will likely mean "undo" the previous move. The icon shaped like a house in my browser takes me to the home page, but the same icon in a game will likely take me to the main menu (sometimes referred to as the home menu). Those functions on tape recorders were universal to all models, and most tape recorders were manufactured by well-established companies like Sony and RCA, or other, smaller companies who wanted to be Sony or RCA so they imitated their designs as closely as possible. But nowadays, you have more developers than you can count, people making apps in their spare time single-handedly even, and they all want to make their UI look a bit different from the competitor to try to stand out in the market.

At my workplace, I use a printing system developed by Squid Ink. The symbols on the UI is out of hand with this thing. I mean, it's a real stretch of the imagination to even know what these symbols are supposed to represent, let alone what they might do. Here is a picture of the menu interface, courtesy of squidink.com.

too_many_symbols.jpg


Close examination shows that one icon has the word "back" along with the arrow pointing left. The others are quite ambiguous. Why does one look like a coin being inserted into a coin slot? This isn't a coin-operated machine. Why does this printer have a touch screen interface at all? When using the printer, especially if cleaning it, replacing the ink bag or cartridge, or performing some other type of maintenance, it's highly possible someone could end up with ink on their fingers. Then the ink can easily be transferred to the touch screen. I imagine that would be bad. There is no tutorial available in this menu, no tooltips, no question mark symbol for the "help" menu. Some of these icons are probably to activate functions on optional accessories, but that's just a guess.
Last edited by New User on Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:48 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby ucim » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:36 pm UTC

Why not just use emoji instead of odd inscrutable symbols?

Jose
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Thesh » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:58 pm UTC

Here's my guess for the 12 big buttons:

[Delay] [Insert Coin] [Print Backwards] [Update Drivers]
[Fuck You] [Increment 2 16 times] [Print to Projector] [Connect using Bluetooth]
[Connect using USB] [Refresh Ink] [Grayscale] [Head Alignment]
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:31 pm UTC

[print faster (or internet speed test)] [insert coin] [print right-to-left] [add lifebuoy (the + should be in the corner, not the center)]
??? [count better] [scan coin sideways] [apply bluetooth]
[not a button, but place usb here] [undo ink] [ink (who knows)] [tear paper]

obviously,
green buttons = do stuff better
orange buttons = do stuff with coins
red buttons = correct errors or make bigger errors
dark blue buttons = mess with your prints
light blue buttons = connectivity stuff (I guess it's pretty old, because there is no cloud button)

Seriously though, it's a display, so who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to cram all those (stateless) icons onto one screen instead of a multi-paged list or a tabbed view in which there is plenty space for text, or even a (contextual) help button, or even a decent hierarchical layout of the buttons?

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:46 pm UTC

New User wrote:
Spoiler:
Image

My guess:
Top to bottom, first column:
  • Build a house. Apparently it's a 3d printer?
  • Reset the universe to big bang state.
Left to right, top row:
  • Speed
  • Insert coin
  • It seems to say

    Code: Select all

    abc->
    <- 24V

    So I think it switches between being able to print text and having power in the device.
  • Make machine radioactive.
Middle row
  • This button seems to grow fingers and attached hands. Useful if you need a spare.
  • Looks like a slot machine. Probably to make the printed result random.
  • Spray ink on all the walls in the room
  • Switch display language to Chinese
Bottom row
  • Clearly "destroy all USB devices within a set area (default is 100 Mm)
  • Undo the print job and put the ink back in the cardridges
  • spill all ink over the floor
  • Print the alphabet instead of the document
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby HES » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:59 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:Clearly "destroy all USB devices within a set area (default is 100 Mm)

I'm going to assume the capitalisation was intended, but Mm is clearly not a unit of area.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby eran_rathan » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:54 pm UTC

HES wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:Clearly "destroy all USB devices within a set area (default is 100 Mm)

I'm going to assume the capitalisation was intended, but Mm is clearly not a unit of area.


it makes sense if he's talking in terms of radius.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:10 pm UTC

Neil_Boekend wrote:
  • Switch display language to Chinese

Minor nitpick: it's for Scandinavian runes, not Chinese ideograms.

Also take a look at this; the huge company Microsoft doing single-color icons. First of all, there's no "new file" icon, so the text editor on my phone uses the "new folder" icon —a plus sign would hint at an additional pane/file or appending a file, whereas the action closes the current document. And secondly, some of the icons make no sense, like ImportAll, SetLockScreen and Preview.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Yakk » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:23 pm UTC

Preview is supposed to be a print preview. The dotted line means "pretend this is a physical document, but it is just imaginary".
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

Last edited by JHVH on Fri Oct 23, 4004 BCE 6:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Neil_Boekend » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:57 pm UTC

eran_rathan wrote:
HES wrote:
Neil_Boekend wrote:Clearly "destroy all USB devices within a set area (default is 100 Mm)

I'm going to assume the capitalisation was intended, but Mm is clearly not a unit of area.


it makes sense if he's talking in terms of radius.

I did mean radius, and yes the capitalization was intentional.
Mikeski wrote:A "What If" update is never late. Nor is it early. It is posted precisely when it should be.

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flicky1991 wrote:I'm being quoted too much!

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Flumble » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:34 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Preview is supposed to be a print preview. The dotted line means "pretend this is a physical document, but it is just imaginary".

Yes, I understand the logic behind it, but I think it's far-fetched and too ambiguous: the icon only tells it's document-related and it has to do with something imaginary/a placeholder/a selection. Mostly the last one, for selections are virtually always visualized by a dashed outline or a highlight/glow.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Yakk » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:55 pm UTC

Ah, but a piece of paper with a corner folded over is clearly a hard-copy of something.

So without the dots, it means "print" (to an actual piece of paper).

With the dots, it means "imagine you have a hard-copy". Obs.
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision - BR

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby addams » Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:01 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:The earworm was inevitable. She was not pleased.
Nice EarWorm.
for me, It was a pleasant surprise.

ucim wrote:Experimenting is a great way to learn how things used to work. Feeding Oscar is a classic.

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ucim wrote:
New User wrote:I shouldn't have to experiment.
I agree, and was saying the same thing. "Feeding Oscar" refers to the story of kids dragging (macintosh) files into the garbage until the parent came along, horrified, asking what they were doing.

They were feeding Oscar (the grouch, from Sesame Street, who lives in a trash can).
Maybe the files were recovered. Maybe not. Depends what other experiments happened.

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What a funny story.
I am so glad you take the time to explain things.
Thank you.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Diadem » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:44 pm UTC

Why do banks make it so ridiculously difficult to get a mortgage?

I rent my apartment. I pay the rent, pay back my student loans, even save a little bit, and still live comfortably. I'm thinking about buying my apartment. The mortgage would be about half my current rent, yet according to the bank I'll never be able to afford it. Makes no bloody sense.

If I call my employer tomorrow and tell him "I don't want a lease car anymore, please pay me my lease budget directly" I would suddenly be allowed to get a high enough mortgage, even though I'd end up with a significantly lower net income. Likewise if I use savings to make extra payments on my student loans, my maximum mortgage goes up, even though that too would make my financial situation worse (interest rates are currently pretty much zero, so x savings and y student debt is obviously better than 0 savings and y - x student debt).

Banks fail at maths, hard.

I know the financial crisis was caused by banks giving mortgages to people who couldn't afford them. But the lesson they have learned is apparently that they should never, under any circumstance, give out a mortgage to anyone. Way to wreck the economy, again, banks.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Zohar » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:58 pm UTC

Tell me about it. We've been wanting to buy an apartment for a while - I make a decent amount of money, my husband makes some more money, and we have a large sum ready to put down on a place, and zero debt. However, because I had to stop working for 9 months when I came to the US (until I was allowed to work), I haven't been working for two years (but more than a year now!), and so my income doesn't count. Since my husband makes less money, we won't be approved for what we want to buy. Argh. Not only that, because a lot of the money we have I brought with me from Israel, apparently banks are worried I got it from torturing puppies for drugs or something, so they want me to "naturalize" the money. What does that mean? It has to sit in a US account for two months, doing nothing. After that it's fine, no matter how much puppy guts I got on my hands to procure it. Makes absolutely no sense.

Thing is, I imagine the banks aren't bad at math - they're probably exceptionally good at it. I'm guessing (/hoping that they made such a rational consideration) they figured a few wide rules that warn them "this is too risky", and that helps them provide relatively secure loans. Giving mortgage brokers more flexibility is expensive - it means they need to work more on identifying risks, figuring out what's reasonable or not, etc. I would guess it's just not worth it for banks to broaden their scope. I mean, how many immigrants are ready to buy a place within less than two years of working in the US? Most either need more time, or if they're very rich - buy all cash.

In any case, I share your anger, and I hope you manage to find a solution for your troubles soon. For us, at the very worst, we wait until May, when I have two years' work experience.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Yakk » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:02 pm UTC

Personal lease + Income: if you run short of money, you may cancel the car lease before you default on the mortgage (assuming lease can be cancelled). The lease also has a limited duration; at the end of it, you might not reup it (if in financial straits).

Paid for car: You don't have that option.

Paying off loan: That loan is an obligation. Reducing said obligations leaves more money for the mortgage.

The goal of the mortgage is that you regularly pay. Their risk is you run short of cash.

Assume your income halves. They want to ensure you can continue to pay your mortgage while eating ramen and dropping all other financial commitments. That is the risk they are working against.

The thing where they want a long term of employment; someone who has worked for 2+ years for X$ is likely to be able to get a job at X/2$. Someone who has worked for 6 months ... less likely. So they want evidence that you can *keep* an X$ job (not just get it).

The two month thing: transfers can be reversed, especially short term ones. After two months, they figure it has been in a "local" banking system long enough that reversal can be disputed (or maybe 2 months + lag time after to finalize deal).

The rent -- if you cannot afford your rent, you are homeless. Not the bank's problem.

The mortage -- if you cannot affort your mortgage payment, the bank has to foreclose on you. This costs the bank money. The costs could be 10%-20% of the value of the property, and this might happen when the property value has plummetted 20%. This is a lot of money, and they want this to *not* happen.

They don't care if you can "afford" your mortage at your current salary. They care that you can continue to pay it when things go horribly pear shaped and you are financially heavily damaged and you can barely afford food, but you can afford to continue to pay the mortgage. Because that is the point of the mortgage, to get you to provide a regular stream of reilable money flow to the bank for them to package and resell.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Zohar » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:20 pm UTC

Everything you wrote is clear, but that doesn't change the fact that it's upsetting, and it doesn't change the fact that in my specific case, if the bank was more flexible (not in its requirements for stability, but in what it asks for in terms of evidence), I would have been a great candidate for a mortgage.

My husband, when applying on his own, is eligible to a monthly payment of $1400. What we're looking for would require us to pay around $1700 a month. I make about twice as much as my husband, so even if our salaries were halved, we would be able to pay our mortgage.
The requirement regarding foreign money is ridiculous - the bank doesn't have an issue if the money is transferred within the US (for example, as a gift from his American parents). In this case, the money includes a gift from my dad, my savings, and an inheritance - none of this is a short term shark-like loan.
Regarding job stability - if the bank were to look at my work history, they would see that right before I finished my bachelor's I started working at one company and I stayed there for four years, then I switched to a different company and worked there for three years, and only quit that company to move to the US. I got a job within 1.5 months of being legally allowed to work, and I got a raise and promotion within 5 months of hiring. I'm a stable and loyal worker, without much actual risk.

If we were dealing with a person instead of an institution, this wouldn't be any issue - our mortgage broker is Israeli, she can speak Hebrew with me and read all the documents in Hebrew I can supply from Israel to establish my claims, but she says her hands are tied because of the bank's demands.

But we are dealing with an institution, and we understand they have rules. We're an edge case where the rules actually harm the bank - we would have signed on a mortgage with them months ago if they would have let us, and in the meantime they're not making money off of us. However, like I said, I suspect adding in the flexibility that we would need would cost the bank too much money in terms of operations and possibly risk. So it's understandable, all these regulations make sense, but they still don't really suit us, and we can still be upset by them.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:45 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:The mortgage would be about half my current rent

What.

How the hell?

Why would anyone ever rent if they could pay less and actually get equity to their name for that money?
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Zohar » Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:46 pm UTC

Because, like Daidem wrote, some people can't get a mortgage. Also, many people have trouble getting money for the down payment. It's easy to argue buying is better than renting when you already have a lot of money.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby pseudoidiot » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:11 pm UTC

Hell my mortgage for a 4 bedroom house is about the same I'd be paying for a reasonably sized 2-bedroom apartment.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:13 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Because, like Daidem wrote, some people can't get a mortgage. Also, many people have trouble getting money for the down payment. It's easy to argue buying is better than renting when you already have a lot of money.
Yeah, paying 0.5% of the value of a property every month (a 30-year mortgage at 4.4% interest) is extremely different from paying ten to forty times that much all at once on a down payment.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Diadem » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:24 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:The goal of the mortgage is that you regularly pay. Their risk is you run short of cash.

Assume your income halves. They want to ensure you can continue to pay your mortgage while eating ramen and dropping all other financial commitments. That is the risk they are working against.

The problem is that this is wildly unlikely. No doubt things are different in the US, so let me explain the Dutch situation.

A mortgage always includes a life insurance. So death is not a risk for the bank. I also have disability insurance, so there's no risk there either. I have a permanent contract (that is pretty much a requirement for a mortgage over here. One reason that so many people can't get mortgages). This means that my employer isn't allowed to just fire me. They either have to proof gross incompetence, or some pressing financial need. Even then they have to pay up. I don't know the exact number, but I think I get about half a year's salary if I'm fired. After that you get benefits equal to 75% of your last wage (including stuff like bonuses, my lease car, pension contributions, etc) for the next 2 years. My raw income would actually go up if i got fired (though I'd still be worse off due to losing out on those goodies). Also I work in IT so it would probably take me about 5 minutes to find a new job.

That leaves very little risk for the bank. If I steal from my employer I could get fired without getting any kind of compensation, and then I'd have trouble making mortgage payments. Same story if I were to go to jail or or became addicted to heroine or gambling or something like that. Even then though they could repossess the house and get out with only modest losses. And that risk is only there for the first few years anyway, because after that the house is worth a lot more than what remains of the mortgage and there's no risk anymore.

I really don't see why they would refuse a mortgage. I can easily afford it, and I can proof that I can easily afford it. The only risks are things that are entirely independent of what my current income is.

And the only reason I can't get a mortgage is because their calculations are very strange. Student debt counts extremely heavily against me. But student debt is risk free. If I lose my income, I don't have to pay it back. My company lease car doesn't count as income, even though it clearly is. The government certainly considers it income, I have to pay taxes over it.

It's just a strange decision by the banks. And I'm not the only one who doesn't understand this. No one seems to. Including the people whose job it is to sell mortgages. Even many of them think it's weird.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Diadem » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:29 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:
Diadem wrote:The mortgage would be about half my current rent

What.

How the hell?

Why would anyone ever rent if they could pay less and actually get equity to their name for that money?

What the others said. It's extremely hard to get a mortgage. Employers are very reluctant in giving people permanent contracts. People with a temporary contract will never get a mortgage. If you're an independent contractor it's not entirely impossible, but very hard, and your maximum mortgage would be tiny. I'm also not the only person with large student loans.

Though for me personally the most important reason not to buy before was simply flexibility. Buying is very advantageous, but you do have to stick around for at least 3-5 years before you break even.

gmalivuk wrote:
Zohar wrote:Yeah, paying 0.5% of the value of a property every month (a 30-year mortgage at 4.4% interest) is extremely different from paying ten to forty times that much all at once on a down payment.

We don't have down payments in The Netherlands. Maximum mortgage is 101% of the value of the home. Though you do need quite a bit of cash up front. Mortgage fees, broker fees, notary fees, appraisal, those add up to 3-5 thousand euros. Plus you pay 2% of the price of the house in tax. And many people who buy a house want to make at least some changes, such as a new floor or a new bathroom, and that's wicked expensive too.

Once you've done that though it's even cheaper then you estimated. The 10-year interest rate at the moment is 1.75%, and you can deduct that form your taxes, so you actually pay about half that in interest. Everything else is pure profit.
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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Sableagle » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:08 pm UTC

For an additional piece of bad logic, once you finally pay off the mortgage and own your home your credit rating plummets (because you're no longer making regular payments on a debt).
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: ANGRY NATTERINGS

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:56 pm UTC

Ok, I know that down payments are hard and yeah, the whole point of this topic is mortgages can be unreasonably hard to get in and of themselves some places I guess (that's honestly a new one to me, and I don't know if its true here because I'm so far from even inquiring into such things).

I was more rhetorically expressing shock at mortgage payments being less than rent payments, which is completely outside my experience in the housing market out here in Southern California. I'm basically having to save up to put 50% down -- which still means hundreds of thousands of dollars on the cheapest house around, so years, maybe decades of my life on hold waiting for a chance to move forward -- in order for the interest portion alone of the payments to merely not exceed the cost of rent. At which point, my rent money can go toward paying the interest, and everything I'm currently saving toward that goal can instead go to paying the equity portion of the mortgage payments.

I would kill someone for the opportunity to keep paying what I'm paying in rent now and end up owning something for that money.
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