xkcd is hard to type

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briantech
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xkcd is hard to type

Postby briantech » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:05 pm UTC

Despite being a proficient touch typist, able to close-eyed type at over 130 WPM @ 99% accuracy, I just can't type xcdk for my life! Something about that series of letters is just completely unheard of in the english language I suppose.

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Postby Monar » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:20 pm UTC

Personally I've never spelled xdkc wrong in my life, so I don't see where the problem is

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby twenty10 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:33 pm UTC

briantech wrote:Despite being a proficient touch typist, able to close-eyed type at over 130 WPM @ 99% accuracy, I just can't type xcdk for my life! Something about that series of letters is just completely unheard of in the english language I suppose.


he's not kidding.
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Postby Shoofle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:03 pm UTC

Although the title has it spelled right. Just remember the mnemonic: Xenophobic Knitting Cacodemons Don't!

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Postby James » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:40 pm UTC

Or Xenophobic Kitchens Conniving Demonstratively!
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Postby Marrow » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:16 pm UTC

Well the fact that it isn't a word, and the keyboard layout was designed to be easier to type words which is why it is arranged as it is. Sure, let me be the boring one this time :(
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Postby davean » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:42 pm UTC

Marrow wrote:Well the fact that it isn't a word, and the keyboard layout was designed to be easier to type words which is why it is arranged as it is. Sure, let me be the boring one this time :(


Which layout do you use?

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Postby Backlash » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:46 pm UTC

Marrow wrote:Well the fact that it isn't a word, and the keyboard layout was designed to be easier to type words which is why it is arranged as it is. Sure, let me be the boring one this time :(


Not if you're using a QWERTY keyboard. It was designed to slow down typists. In the old days the fastest typists would cause their mechanical typewriters to have problems when they typed too fast. Nowadays that's not a problem but we're still mostly stuck with crappy old qwerty. :( I've never bothered to try to learn dvorak or whatever.

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Postby Jesse » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:53 pm UTC

I like qwerty, the use of it over the years means I can type succesfully without being able to see my keyboard, saves on electric lighting.

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Postby McMillian » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:11 pm UTC

I always used X-Ray Kids Call the Doctor or Xylophone-playing Kitten Carrying Diseases

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Postby Jack Saladin » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:28 am UTC

I couldn't stad not using qwerty. I think I'm relatively decent at touch-tping, so I'm tuping this with my eyes closed to test. XKCD. Did I get it?

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Postby Jerf » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:45 am UTC

Marrow's point stands with Dvorak; X is on B, and K is on V, and since with Dvorak the layout actually rewards touch-typing correctly (rather than the touch-and-peck everyone develops on QWERTY), those are actually two of the hardest-to-reach keys on the keyboard.

C and D are much easier, being more common letters. C is on I, and D is on H.

Typing non-word words is noticably harder in Dvorak. In return, typing word words is noticably easier. People have asked me before how I manage to avoid looking like I'm flailing all over the keyboard like everybody else does, before they know I'm on a different layout.

(By the way, I don't care that it's hard, just commenting.)

(Re: Dvorak: Net-net, I don't recommend learning it unless you're really concerned about your wrists. I learned it after a scary bout of what turned out to be minor wrist pain brought on by a specific incident, but having learned it, I'm not going back. I think it is a superior layout, but it's an awful lot of disruption to change over and would take a long time to recover that time. Since I've already paid, I might as well keep it.)

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Postby Marrow » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:20 am UTC

I have a qwerty but I usually don't have to look down to see what I am doing unless I make a mistake or sometimes for the stuff on the bottom row.

All my facts are based off of eavesdropping on other peoples conversations, they get upset when you aske them to be references in your bibliography in what seems to them out of nowhere.
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Postby Jesse » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:08 am UTC

When I was in Soctland for four years I discovered they have two mandatory classes no other has, Modern Studies, which was a mix of journalism and politics. But more importantly, what they called Amdinistration. Essentially it was an entire class devoted to teaching you accountancy and typing skills.

When typing now I have my hand in such a position that it requires the minimal amount of movement to hit each key, using every finger on my hand (thumb for space bar). So I really have no problem with the QWERTY keyboard, especially since my wrist-rest stops any pains I used to get from long hours at the computer.

I found it was type-writers that used to kill me.

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Postby Marrow » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:59 am UTC

I had not the pinky strength for typewritters. That is what I tried to learn to type properly in the first place with and I ended up giving up before I got any good at all. This was also because I had no reason to use a typewritter and because any mistakes made were far more permanent. Most of my typing skill comes from a darker time when I used to game online. At least I can write off that wasted time and money as typing lessons.
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Postby Andy » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:17 pm UTC

I recommend learning dvorak to anyone:

1) It impresses members of the opposite sex.
2) You now have twice as many passwords you can use.
3) People will feel inferior when they try to use your computer.
4) If you are trapped in a room with a dvorak keyboard and have to type your way out, then it could save your life.

It doesn't mess up your normal qwerty typing, and took me about 2 weeks to learn. I didn't spend any time actually teaching myself - it was all just forcing myself to use it. Qwerty didn't get worse at all (I have a bad memory, but this seems to work on a different type of memory), and it is only marginally annoying for the first week.

(note that speed wasn't on the list... I'm not so convinced it has any practical uses... I switch layouts at work periodically to try and prevent RSI... I also spin around on my chair for the same reason.... spinning on a chair is more fun than changing keyboard layouts)

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Postby briantech » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:20 pm UTC

well I figured out where "xkcd" comes from.


For your analysis, I present to you a schematic of a standard north american computer keyboard. For clarity, the keys "xkcd" have been connected in a networked type fashion.

Image


Now its a simple matter of extrapolating the underlying image that was used as the basis for that arrangement...





Image




Its bluntly obvious what the author's intentions were.

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Postby Jerf » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:30 pm UTC

Hmm, zpxs.com seems to be taken.

Theirs is bigger.

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Postby RealGrouchy » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:27 am UTC

Jerf: ROFL!

briantech wrote:For your analysis, I present to you a schematic of a standard north american computer keyboard.


WTF kind of "standard" keyboard has square, circle, and triangle buttons on top of the numbers?

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Postby Heirtopendragon » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:38 am UTC

I have to bust this out for the penis reasoning

Image

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Postby Charodei » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:50 am UTC

Andy wrote:I recommend learning dvorak to anyone:

1) It impresses members of the opposite sex.
2) You now have twice as many passwords you can use.
3) People will feel inferior when they try to use your computer.
4) If you are trapped in a room with a dvorak keyboard and have to type your way out, then it could save your life.

It doesn't mess up your normal qwerty typing, and took me about 2 weeks to learn. I didn't spend any time actually teaching myself - it was all just forcing myself to use it. Qwerty didn't get worse at all (I have a bad memory, but this seems to work on a different type of memory), and it is only marginally annoying for the first week.

(note that speed wasn't on the list... I'm not so convinced it has any practical uses... I switch layouts at work periodically to try and prevent RSI... I also spin around on my chair for the same reason.... spinning on a chair is more fun than changing keyboard layouts)


My hands used to get sore after typing qwerty for a while, which has never happened since I switched to dvorak. It's not faster, but the RSI benefits are worth it. A programmer at Cray created a genetic algorithm to create more efficient keyboard layouts. He used timing from a keystroke logger and several years worth of email and code and text from Project Gutenberg for testing/selection. It almost immediately found better arrangements than qwerty, but could not create anything appreciably better than dvorak. It seems to be one of the best layouts for minimizing finger travel.

I learned dvorak by transcribing code from a Java textbook, which worked quite quickly. It had the added benefit of also teaching the compiler errors that result from various typos. My passwords are alphanumeric phrases typed in dvorak, but with the keyboard set to qwerty. It's easy to remember and can be used on any computer without having to change the keyboard layout, but the actual password is semirandom. Leaving your physical keys in qwerty provides a level of security, as most people won't be able to type; even knowing your password won't get them anything. For more fun, once you can touch-type, sand the labels off all the keys - letters, symbols, modifiers, function, everything. Even the best typists will be confused by a completely blank keyboard.

Unfortunately, I have not yet found it to be a chick magnet. Other than that, it's all good.

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Re:

Postby Seven » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:33 am UTC

briantech wrote:well I figured out where "xkcd" comes from.
That's so..... Freud.
Necro'd like WHOA :shock:

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:49 am UTC

I actually don't have a problem with xkcd at all, maybe I'm really used to it.
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Re: Re:

Postby zingmaster » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:58 am UTC

Seven wrote:
briantech wrote:well I figured out where "xkcd" comes from.
That's so..... Freud.
Necro'd like WHOA :shock:

Congrats, you win many necro points.
You get 500 xp.
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Maseiken » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:50 am UTC

Since I'm not actually a Touch-Typist, I have aboslutly no troulbe spelling xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd.

(That could probably help you out)
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Morphing Ball » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:38 am UTC

I'm using QWERTY here, on one of Microsoft's ergonomic keyboards. I don't find it particularly difficult. xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd I typed it correctly that many times. I just can't see how this could be difficult. Perhaps the keyboard's shape is helping.

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby arkady » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:38 am UTC

Maseiken wrote:Since I'm not actually a Touch-Typist, I have aboslutly no troulbe spelling xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd.

(That could probably help you out)


I have absolutely no idea whether or not those were intentional. "Aboslutly" is possibly my new favourite word.

I don't find xkcd hard. Anyone know where I can get Dvorak trainer, or something?
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby wst » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:28 am UTC

XKCD needs its own keyboard layout...

Aboslutly is amazing. Troulbe is pretty cool. Rock on tpyos (okay, that was intentional :P)
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Gem » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:53 pm UTC

I don't really find xkcd hard to type. I've never really thought about it, but after reading this thread, I want to learn dvorak. And aboslutly is awesome.

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Re:

Postby william » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:06 pm UTC

Backlash wrote:
Marrow wrote:Well the fact that it isn't a word, and the keyboard layout was designed to be easier to type words which is why it is arranged as it is. Sure, let me be the boring one this time :(


Not if you're using a QWERTY keyboard. It was designed to slow down typists. In the old days the fastest typists would cause their mechanical typewriters to have problems when they typed too fast. Nowadays that's not a problem but we're still mostly stuck with crappy old qwerty. :( I've never bothered to try to learn dvorak or whatever.

No, it was designed to make adjacent letters in words be far away on the keyboard so that it wouldn't jam, not to slow it down.

Anyways, Dvorak only really speeds up typing 5% or so.
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Re: Re:

Postby Seven » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:03 pm UTC

Seven wrote:
briantech wrote:well I figured out where "xkcd" comes from.
That's so..... Freud.
Necro'd like WHOA :shock:

::giggle:: I used the search function, and this came up - lol

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Cheese » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:05 pm UTC

I don't think I've gone on a necro spree for a while, now that it's come up...

And I type xkcd correctly about 95% of the time, at a typing speed with about* 92% accuracy.

*I've not actually checked this in a while... it might've improved or deteriorated a little.
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Brandon Oto » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:19 pm UTC

xkcd is no problem on Dvorak for me. (Hell, "Dvorak" is harder.)

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Zohar » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:33 pm UTC

Brandon Oto wrote:xkcd is no problem on Dvorak for me. (Hell, "Dvorak" is harder.)


I just realized (about 10 minutes before reading this post) how difficult "QWERTY" is to type on a QWERTY keyboard as opposed to DVORAK. I assumed it was vice-versa.
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby crazyjimbo » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:47 pm UTC

You guys all just have sucky keyboard layouts. It's really easy on mine
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby Brandon Oto » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:54 pm UTC

^ a Dvorak keyboard rearranged to put "xkcd" in the homerow, if anyone misses it.

I've actually always had my Dvorak keyboards left physically in a QWERTY layout; I don't look at the keys so it doesn't much matter, but it's nice to have the reference, because I use QWERTY commands (a hybrid functionality that Macs allow) and while Cmd-Q is natural, something like Cmd-D may have me wondering where the QWERTY D key was.

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby crazyjimbo » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:58 pm UTC

Heh, yea I don't actually type DVORAK, that's just an old keyboard I have lying around that I rearranged when I tried to learn. I think I lasted about an hour before getting too frustrated :x

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby silent man » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:10 pm UTC

For everyone who wanted to learn Dvorak or touch typing in general: Stamina typing tutor

One cool feature is that you can use any text file for practice to make it less boring.
This program would have helped me a lot in learning Dvorak, if I'd practiced more regularly (or, you know, at all.)

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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby LE4dGOLEM » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:47 pm UTC

I uso Dvorak at home and QWERTY at school. Most (read: every single one) of my spelling errors on Dvorak are omitting or mixing up vowels , and mixing up M and W or P and R. xkcd is fine on both. A standard Dvorak xkcd has an erecter penis than qwerty's.
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Re: xkcd is hard to type

Postby ++$_ » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:53 pm UTC

xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xckd xkcd xkcd xkcd xckd xckd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd xkcd

So, three errors out of 34. Ouch :(

There's a thread on QWERTY and DVORAK in "Religious Wars," by the way.


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