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Poly - Again!

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:58 pm UTC
by VannA
Original Thread - http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?t=454&start=40&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Newscientist Article - http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125591.800

Just For anybody that was interested.

The NS article, while short, lists some interesting studies, and a post in the Piers Anthony thread brought it back to mind.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:19 am UTC
by no-genius
Ahahahaha, I might still have that NS :P

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:36 am UTC
by Hawknc
That was one of the first threads I read here, very informative.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:46 am UTC
by Peshmerga
Who would want more than one wife anyway.

Shit, who would want one wife?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:48 am UTC
by Belial
Oh hey, Vanna, I knew I remembered you from somewhere. The great Poly debate. Good times.

How's that continuing to work out for you?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:06 am UTC
by VannA
Teaspoon and Riannah celebrated their 1 year anniversary on Sunday.

It's working well.

My prospective partner is.. fled?

She's too young.

So I'm devoting more time to WoW :D

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:12 am UTC
by Aoeniac
This topic is taking a tremendous psychological toll on my mind.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:09 am UTC
by VannA
A masochistic Solipsist?

I guess they (it) all would be.

Why so, Aoeniac?

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:32 am UTC
by aldimond
I think polyamory is a fine idea in theory.

Unfortunately, in my case, the same can be said of amory in general!

(OK, I have been in one relationship (and it was a very good thing in theory and practice, even though it did end), and it actually was open in theory... though I never would have been with anyone else because starting new relationships is exceptionally more stressful than exciting for me and she never really got around to it I guess; I would have been fine with it... she was interested in some things that I was not really so much capable or desireful of being (a woman, for example, or even a highly assertive and dominant man), and I'd rather be up-front than sneaky about that kind of thing. So, "Go polyamorists, you're so cool!", chants Al from the sidelines.)

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:54 am UTC
by thefiddler
Wow, that thread was a lot to take in in twenty minutes.

So, here's my contribution: I think that polyamory is wonderful and I commend people who practice it wisely (specifically VannA, Teaspoon, and Riannah).

However, I do think that it should be avoided if the people involved are not entirely sure it is what they want and what sort of hardships or trials it might entail. One should go into a relationship like this prepared to deal with whatever might happen, both good and bad.

While I am all for polyamory, I personally practice monogamy. :( Sorry, does that make me a hypocrite? :oops:

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:12 am UTC
by hermaj
I think it makes you open-minded and accepting. You don't have to actually do something to condone it in others.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:22 am UTC
by Verysillyman
hermaj wrote:You don't have to actually do something to condone it in others.


And vice versa.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:44 am UTC
by Teaspoon
thefiddler wrote:While I am all for polyamory, I personally practice monogamy.


Me too!

Seriously, I only have one partner and I'm not planning to get another. I just don't have a problem with her having another.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:14 pm UTC
by Belial
While I am all for polyamory, I personally practice monogamy. Sad Sorry, does that make me a hypocrite? Embarassed


If so, we are very much in the same little hypocritical boat.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:05 pm UTC
by thefiddler
Belial wrote:
While I am all for polyamory, I personally practice monogamy. Sad Sorry, does that make me a hypocrite? Embarassed

If so, we are very much in the same little hypocritical boat.

Well, that makes me feel a bit better. :)

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:12 pm UTC
by aldimond
VSM wrote:And vice versa.


I CAN'T BELIEVE ALL OF YOU DAMN HYPOCRITES! I'M SORRY, BUT I CAN'T ACCEPT YOUR BLATANT HYPOCRISY IN NOT FINDING MULTIPLE LOVERS THOUGH YOU ACCEPT POLYAMORISTS! YOU'LL ALL BURN IN HELL FOR YER SIMULTANEOUS-MONOGAMY-POLYAMORY-ACCEPTANCE-COMPLEXES!!

:D

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:24 pm UTC
by Belial
Oh me yarm BIGOT!!!!!!!1!11!!!1!eleventy-stereotype-of-excited-internet-retard-typing-one -zero !!!!!!!1

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:29 pm UTC
by Jesse
I've done polyamory before, and I'm in a weird semi-polyamorous relationship right now.

It helps because I'm often away just creating, or at wrestling so it's good that I don't have to worry about my girlfriend being lonely, or dragging her to events.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:25 pm UTC
by Rat
so how do you do birthdays and christmas and the like.. i mean.. do you ever feel competition when buying gifts? for that matter do you EVER feel like youre competing against the other partner?

if youre in a polygamous relationship with someone are you free to find as many other partners as you like? i guess those sorts of rules would be worked out between you and your partner eh?

i dont have time to read articles.. those are the questions im interested in and can think of at the moment though... so... answer away!

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:26 pm UTC
by william
Polyamory? Yeah, but I'd have to work on getting a first amory before getting to a second one.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:33 pm UTC
by Belial
Heh. Might improve your odds if you were willing to be some else's second amory.

Just saying.

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:20 pm UTC
by thefiddler
William, don't worry. You're young, still. There's time for you to get a girlfriend or two before you die. :)

Anyway, back to polyamory. Best of luck to those who practice it!

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:39 pm UTC
by VannA
Rat wrote:so how do you do birthdays and christmas and the like.. i mean.. do you ever feel competition when buying gifts? for that matter do you EVER feel like youre competing against the other partner?

if youre in a polygamous relationship with someone are you free to find as many other partners as you like? i guess those sorts of rules would be worked out between you and your partner eh?

i dont have time to read articles.. those are the questions im interested in and can think of at the moment though... so... answer away!


There is little competition.. We are both different people, Lisa has different expectations.. and where you might normally find competition, you will in this instance find co-operation. We both want her to be happy.

I can be quite competative, but in this instance, it would be counter-productive. He's not a rival, I don't own her, and I'm not protecting anything. I'm secure in how she feels about me.

As for the partner question?

That's something for you to determine in the situation you are in. Teaspoon doesn't want other partners. Riannah, I think, is happy with her 2 boys.

I was persuing somebody.. but for a variety of reasons I don't believe it will work out. Not at the moment.

Within the framework of the relationship.. I am *free* to persue another interest, although I think Rinnah's preference is that it would be more of a dalliance than another 'fulltime' relationship.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:07 am UTC
by Belial
Something I've always wondered: How tight is that community, exactly?

Like, do you hang out with other poly three-/four-/five-/eleventy-six-somes and do activities, or have discussion groups about liking more than one person? Is there even any great desire to know more people who are into that sort of thing? Or is it just kindof you guys' thing, and you keep it to yourselves?

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:29 am UTC
by VannA
Well, there is a polyoz community.

http://polyoz.scm-rpg.com.au/postnuke2/

We don't really know any others, however.

I've debated going to one of the Poly Oz meetings, for a variety of reasons..

There is a lot of information out there.. that book referenced in the New Scientist article is without peer, in my current experience.

I, personally, had a minor revelation. I'd never realised how pervasive it was as a lifestyle.. I mean, I guess it's on the fringes of awareness.. but I'd always run into so many issues, especially as a young teenager.

I've been Poly forever, basically. Never had the social monogamy thing imprinted on me, and it just seems far more natural to allow yourself to love and experience more than one person.. at a time, if necessary.

As I mentioned earlier, I've run into .. issues.. with another relationship.

I'm getting jealous, and possesive. I don't know why. Something I need to resolve.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:33 am UTC
by Teaspoon
There's a community?

Alright, yes, I was already aware that there was one. I have no involvement with it though. Ri joined the PolyOz forum a while back and did an introductory post describing our situation. I think she's had one PM conversation with another person who'd just signed up in a similar situation, but other than that the forum's been kinda dead.

As far as I know, we don't hang out with other people who are in poly-relationships. If we do, they haven't bothered to mention it. I don't specifically seek out or avoid friendships with people based on their sexual practices and I think the quietness of the PolyOz forums backs up my theory that the wide, vague category of "poly" isn't a very good thing to build a community around.

Hobbies are much better community foci. What's the focus of the xkcd forum community? The comics? General nerdy inquisitiveness?

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:39 am UTC
by Belial
That last one.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:06 am UTC
by John DeSavage
Hi there. I'm relatively new here, but I'd like to say a few things.

First, it's been nice to read a discussion about this topic where at least someone has had experience with the side they are arguing for. Most of the discussions I've been involved with about polyamory are the "How could that ever work" camp versus the "I support it, but it's not for me" camp. Admittedly, I belong to the latter. Adding more people to a relationship increases the number of individual relationships (and channels of communication) exponentially. It's straight out of the Mythical Man Month. I am able to handle one, and it has been a wonderful exercise in communication, since that is something I've never been inherently good at, but I don't think I would be able to handle three times as much (at the very least!).

Secondly following that, the most important part of any relationship, be it monogamous or polyamorous is open communication! If you are not able to communicate freely about your emotions and feelings regularly with your partner(s) then the relationship will inevitably lead to a horrible end of misconceptions, wrong assumptions, and hurt feelings.

Lastly, some of the things I read in the previous thread could be considered very hurtful or offensive to single parents, or children of single parents. I am referring to comments such as "children will have a hard time developing without the socio-normative family structure" or "children will be better off raised by two (or more) parents." I know plenty of people with single moms or dads who have turned out to be wonderful people. It may be that our parents become our biggest influences, but it is wrong to deny the influences of brothers and sisters, friends, and friends' parents.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:43 am UTC
by Jesse
But it's statistically proven that children have a hard time developing without the socio-normative structure. Lacking a parent, especially early in life tends to lead to problems later. Girls without a father often mature much younger, for example.

This is not a slur on single parents, it is just a fact of life.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:52 am UTC
by VannA
No.. it's a reflecting on lousy socio-logical habits in a community.

Because they are not the norm.

It's not a survivalistic requirement anymore.. although I would say there are some economic pressures still.

.. personally, I like the idea that the more parents the better, but the reason single parents statistics are nasty is mostly due to sociological pressures.

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:36 pm UTC
by Belial
Lastly, some of the things I read in the previous thread could be considered very hurtful or offensive to single parents, or children of single parents. I am referring to comments such as "children will have a hard time developing without the socio-normative family structure" or "children will be better off raised by two (or more) parents." I know plenty of people with single moms or dads who have turned out to be wonderful people.


Statistics aren't rules. Do single-parent-raised kids, statistically, have more problems? Pretty much. Does that mean that if you're raised by a single parent, you *will* be a bad person? Of course not, for numerous reasons, the first being that human development is unpredictable. Everything can be "Right" in your upraising and you can turn out a complete bastard, or everything can be "Wrong" and you can emerge as a great person (My family life having been....not-good, I like to imagine that I fall in the latter camp). It happens sometimes.

The other reason is that "having problems" does not equate to "being a bad person". It just means the deck is stacked against you somewhat. You can have problems and still be, as you say, a wonderful person.

It may be that our parents become our biggest influences, but it is wrong to deny the influences of brothers and sisters, friends, and friends' parents.


In other words, that in a good situation, kids are raised by the community/tribe? I don't think that puts you in disagreement with the "More 'parents' the better" camp.