[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zeroignite » Tue May 17, 2011 2:06 am UTC

Cute :)

Edit for actual content:
I went to a trans youth group meeting last night, and it was awesome. I'm really surprised every time I get gendered properly, just for how good it feels. Also I got a psychologist recommendation and have an appointment scheduled for Wednesday :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue May 17, 2011 11:26 am UTC

And Leo (the gender-ambiguous character) is German, too :D .


I am interested in opinions on this viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69545&p=2580931#p2580931 .
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Tue May 17, 2011 1:13 pm UTC

Monika wrote:I am interested in opinions on this viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69545&p=2580931#p2580931 .



In my perfect world...

Puberty blockers should be accessible to anyone at least age 13, hormones to anyone at least 16 (with doctors discretion being allowed to determine if either can be used at a younger age), and therapy should not be required except in cases of people who are younger than either limit, or who have serious potential psychological contraindications like Schizophrenia or Type II bipolar. Therapy should be encouraged for everyone and should still be a requirement for bottom surgery (not other forms though), but only one letter should be required. Minimum age for bottom surgery should be 18. It should be a crime for anyone whether parents, healthcare professionals or otherwise to prevent access to treatment. The punishment should be genital mutilation.

:3
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NecklaceOfShadow » Tue May 17, 2011 1:22 pm UTC

So, today I have my meeting with the school principal. We'll be discussing the whole issue of graduation and the robe colour thing I mentioned earlier.

So... wish me luck, please?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Kulantan » Tue May 17, 2011 1:30 pm UTC

I hope it goes really well!

On another note:
Kilroy(ZTC) wrote:The punishment should be genital mutilation.

:3

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Tue May 17, 2011 1:32 pm UTC

Kulantan wrote:You scare me. Do you have a newsletter to which I could subscribe?


No. I want to write a blog, but I can never think of enough subject material to write about and my interests (both political and otherwise) are very broad. It would end up being the "Transgender, video games, life and food review" or something equally absurd.

Also, very much good luck to NecklaceOfShadow.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Van » Tue May 17, 2011 1:49 pm UTC

Kilroy(ZTC) wrote:
Monika wrote:I am interested in opinions on this viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69545&p=2580931#p2580931 .



In my perfect world...

Puberty blockers should be accessible to anyone at least age 13, hormones to anyone at least 16 (with doctors discretion being allowed to determine if either can be used at a younger age), and therapy should not be required except in cases of people who are younger than either limit, or who have serious potential psychological contraindications like Schizophrenia or Type II bipolar. Therapy should be encouraged for everyone and should still be a requirement for bottom surgery (not other forms though), but only one letter should be required. Minimum age for bottom surgery should be 18. It should be a crime for anyone whether parents, healthcare professionals or otherwise to prevent access to treatment. The punishment should be genital mutilation.

:3
Meh. In my perfect world, I definitely wouldn't have to... deal with everything that goes along with this. For years. Or pay tens of thousands of dollars. I'd just wake up and be like everyone else.

Shouldn't the idea of being just like everyone else be a factor somewhere here? Puberty usually begins between 10 and 13. What is the point of forcing a trans person to suffer through potentially several years of the wrong puberty? Keeping in mind that puberty (well, hormones) always results in irreversible changes? Admittedly, not everyone knows by 10, but I did, and I think I'd be pretty righteously pissed off if you told me that I had to wait for a completely arbitrary date to start righting things.

Similarly, hormones restricted to 16? There isn't exactly a massive reason behind that, is there? If someone says "Mom, I think I should've been born a girl" at age 7, and still thinks that way a couple years later, there is a good chance it isn't just a phase, and they really aren't going to grow out of it. Why deny them the ability to be a normal teenager?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Tue May 17, 2011 2:05 pm UTC

Van wrote:Meh. In my perfect world, I definitely wouldn't have to... deal with everything that goes along with this. For years. Or pay tens of thousands of dollars. I'd just wake up and be like everyone else.


Right. I guess I should rephrase. That's really more like my idea of a more perfect version of the world we have now.

Van wrote:Shouldn't the idea of being just like everyone else be a factor somewhere here? Puberty usually begins between 10 and 13. What is the point of forcing a trans person to suffer through potentially several years of the wrong puberty? Keeping in mind that puberty (well, hormones) always results in irreversible changes? Admittedly, not everyone knows by 10, but I did, and I think I'd be pretty righteously pissed off if you told me that I had to wait for a completely arbitrary date to start righting things.


You wouldn't though. You would just have to get therapy first if you were younger than 13. Also, puberty is kind of the definitive test to see if someone is TG, so as inhumane as it sounds, allowing at least a little bit of puberty distress is probably necessary as a diagnostic tool.

Van wrote:Similarly, hormones restricted to 16? There isn't exactly a massive reason behind that, is there?


http://guideline.gov/content.aspx?id=15138

I'm just basically following a guideline set in this thing, but without therapy. Also, I wouldn't say restricted to 16. I would say unrestricted after 16. I basically just think that hurdles should be kept in place at younger ages, allowing people access to treatment but only if they check out first. And yes, I realize that is somewhat cruel, but there are certainly at least a few cases of confusion or of people outgrowing "childhood onset gender identity disorder", so at least a mild degree of conservativism seems justified.

Van wrote:If someone says "Mom, I think I should've been born a girl" at age 7, and still thinks that way a couple years later, there is a good chance it isn't just a phase, and they really aren't going to grow out of it. Why deny them the ability to be a normal teenager?


I don't think they should be denied that, but I do think some evaluation or gatekeeping is helpful at that age. And now that I think of it, setting surgery to 18 was a pretty stupid thought on my part, so I rescind that. Sorry. It's too early here. Otherwise I don't really see the problem with my suggestion.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Van » Tue May 17, 2011 2:41 pm UTC

You seem to have a pretty set-in-stone opinion on "kids get it wrong sometimes", any reason why? The only formal study that I know of (Zucker's) showed that kids who like non-stereotypically fitting hobbies, like girls playing football, usually are not trans. That's not exactly a shock.

Also, fuck therapy. The entire point of therapy WRT to transition is to a) gatekeep b) help you through the difficulties of transition. If you get it early enough, you don't end up damaged and depressed to the point that you need therapy. As for gatekeeping: informed consent. It is more awesome and less suck. If there absolutely has to be a system in place cause won't somebody think of the children, it should be no more than two visits. Similar to how there is no gatekeeping on, say, quitting your job, or dropping out of college, or getting drunk and doing something stupid, trans people should be allowed to make their own choices.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue May 17, 2011 2:46 pm UTC

Anti-puberty stuff would be needed before 13, e.g. I got Shark Week with 11 ... that would be a disaster for a trans boy. I think there should be no age limit for this, it would get prescribed when needed (some female-bodied persons enter puberty as early as 9).
When to allow hormons, that's harder. Those who already told their parents to use the other pronouns at age 3 could probably safely get them at the normal age for puberty. But what about kids who figure out their transness at age 10, 11, 12, 13? Most will probably be right, but some may be not? There are (a few) people who detransition, after all. But on the other hand intersex children are given hormones and nobody delays this thinking they might change their mind (which would sometimes be better, as they have a lot of pressure from parents and doctors to take hormones matching their assigned gender).

Should trans men (over 16 or over 18) be able to get testosterone without any kind of psychological evaluation? If they change their mind they cannot get rid of some of the effects (beard, voice). Also testosterone can be used for getting better results in sports and could be abused.

What should be the requirements for changing the legal gender and name? A psychological diagnosis (which hopefully sometime soon won't talk of a "disorder", but e.g. of "incongruence")? Nothing?

I think it would be best if the M or F designation in passports (IDs, birth certificates, whatever) would be removed altogether. It gives problems to genderqueer (androgynous, asexual, multigender, ...) people. Intersex people also lobby for other designations (the German intersex organization wants IS-F and IS-M). It's a hassle for MtF and FtM transgender people who have not yet been able to change it. And even for cis gender people ... what's the purpose of this F or M there? It's hardly for identification. I think it's from the time when women had a lot less rights than men, to e.g. keep them from voting. The relatively few remaining legal difference between men and women would need to be removed first, e.g. women would need to be allowed front-line military service. Countries with the draft for men would need to remove it (it sucks anyway). Civil unions and marriages would have to become completely equal (or both civil unions and marriages would need to be open to opposite-sex and same-sex couples), including full adoption rights.
BUT: Not having a legal gender (or having no documents to prove it) could be a problem especially for trans people in some situations ... I am thinking mostly of trans women being forced into the men's section of prisons (or vice versa). Maybe there are other situations that I cannot come up with now. How to solve those?

BTW in Germany there are two steps of legal changes, first a name change (baby names are required to match the sex of the child), and only later with the two psychological certificates the legal gender change.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby joshz » Tue May 17, 2011 3:41 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:So, today I have my meeting with the school principal. We'll be discussing the whole issue of graduation and the robe colour thing I mentioned earlier.

So... wish me luck, please?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue May 17, 2011 4:18 pm UTC

Can we not bring a debate into a safespace thread?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Kewangji » Tue May 17, 2011 4:29 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:So, today I have my meeting with the school principal. We'll be discussing the whole issue of graduation and the robe colour thing I mentioned earlier.

So... wish me luck, please?

Best of luck :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue May 17, 2011 4:33 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:So, today I have my meeting with the school principal. We'll be discussing the whole issue of graduation and the robe colour thing I mentioned earlier.

So... wish me luck, please?


Luck, dear. *hug*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue May 17, 2011 5:08 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:So, today I have my meeting with the school principal. We'll be discussing the whole issue of graduation and the robe colour thing I mentioned earlier.

So... wish me luck, please?


Luck thusly wished. (>^_^<)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Tue May 17, 2011 6:30 pm UTC

Good luck!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Lostdreams » Tue May 17, 2011 7:13 pm UTC

Late to the good luck bandwagon but with twice as much!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Tue May 17, 2011 7:47 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:So, today I have my meeting with the school principal. We'll be discussing the whole issue of graduation and the robe colour thing I mentioned earlier.

So... wish me luck, please?

Good luck! I know that this state's school districts suck sometimes, but I really hope you get through to them.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby sophyturtle » Tue May 17, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

*good luck and thoughts*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wyvern » Tue May 17, 2011 8:22 pm UTC

So I recently found myself in a discussion about transphobia in EVE Online on Reddit.

All in all, everything went better than expected.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue May 17, 2011 8:23 pm UTC

Wyvern wrote:So I recently found myself in a discussion about transphobia in EVE Online on Reddit.

All in all, everything went better than expected.


Link? (With any appropriate trigger warnings, if necessary)

I'm somewhat interested in this, what with also playing EVE and all...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wyvern » Tue May 17, 2011 8:26 pm UTC

Trigger'd for transphobic asshattery.


There were many more sympathetic people than I was expecting to see though, including the New CEO of Dreddit (Reddit's in-game corp)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Fri May 20, 2011 1:14 am UTC

Most definite trigger warning for the comments on this, as well as... well... just sort of the fact that it has to even exist. But Kotaku recently came to the defense of Carolyn Michelle, a reviewer of gamespot who is MtF.

Spoiler:
http://kotaku.com/5803703/welcome-carolyn-michelle-to-games-reviewing-


Sort of half-cool
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Fri May 20, 2011 10:53 am UTC

Also for this article more than half of the comments are positive, which is pretty rare. (I still can't recommend to read them, the first one is already bad.)


Unrelated: I came across this and feel weirdly connected:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby hanecter » Fri May 20, 2011 12:05 pm UTC

I'm very confused...
I'm 99% sure I'm female.

Is that compatible with the fact that I've never had dysphoria in regards to my genitalia? I hate the rest of my body. But my genitalia...I'm okay with it.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Fri May 20, 2011 2:23 pm UTC

I don't see what the problem would be with that. The brain is a complex thing, possibly one of the most complex things human beings have ever attempted to model. Besides which, if you a feel a certain way then obviously those feelings are real, that's pretty much true by definition. So, uh, don't get bogged down in semantics. If it works for you then go for it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Fri May 20, 2011 5:49 pm UTC

hanecter wrote:I'm very confused...
I'm 99% sure I'm female.

Is that compatible with the fact that I've never had dysphoria in regards to my genitalia? I hate the rest of my body. But my genitalia...I'm okay with it.


Totally. There are plenty of trans folk who are okay with some things and just not others.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Fri May 20, 2011 5:53 pm UTC

hanecter, some trans women go no-op voluntarily (not because of circumstances like medical problems or not having enough money or because the process for being allowed to have the surgery is too nerve-wrecking), so obviously you are not the only one with no dysphoria about your genitals. There is a German trans female model who has posted on-line that she does not really mind her penis and is not going to get surgery. And half the comics on Trans Girl Diaries make fun of people / websites / institutions that claim that SRS is needed to make a trans woman into a woman, e.g. this one http://transgirldiaries.com/?p=2147 . Okay, maybe not half of them, but it's certainly a repeated theme. The artist herself made a comment in the chatbox that she is waiting for better surgical methods (well, or someone who used her nick, there is no registration for the chatbox, but it would fit) ... but if she is willing to wait for at least another two years - and considering the various comics regarding vaginas or not getting one - she probably is not feeling really terrible dysphoria about what she currently has.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Fri May 20, 2011 7:07 pm UTC

hanecter wrote:I'm very confused...
I'm 99% sure I'm female.

Is that compatible with the fact that I've never had dysphoria in regards to my genitalia? I hate the rest of my body. But my genitalia...I'm okay with it.
It's interesting, I'm kinda in the same spot you are. I don't have a huge issue with my penis - I'm not exceptionally fond of it, but it doesn't really trigger my dysphoria the way, say, my shoulders or lack of breasts do. It certainly takes a little bit of wrapping one's head around the concept that the thing that branded me as a male at birth, actually... I'm kinda ok with.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Enuja » Fri May 20, 2011 8:18 pm UTC

I recently saw this YouTube clip on a blog: it's a man's genital affirmation of his vagina. Seemed relevant to recent discussion, and it's fun to watch.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby The EGE » Sat May 21, 2011 12:35 am UTC

So apparently my state passed a transgender non-discrimination bill. Which is pretty cool and all. Apparently this makes us the 14th state in the US.

What makes me angry is the presentation in the paper. TG folk are portrayed as sexual deviants. I would suggest not reading the news story if you want to avoid vomiting on your computer screen.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Sat May 21, 2011 12:49 am UTC

The EGE wrote:So apparently my state passed a transgender non-discrimination bill. Which is pretty cool and all. Apparently this makes us the 14th state in the US.

What makes me angry is the presentation in the paper. TG folk are portrayed as sexual deviants. I would suggest not reading the news story if you want to avoid vomiting on your computer screen.


From my initial glance, it look like it has only passed the state House so far? The governor says he will sign it but the state Senate still has to pass it, yes?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby The EGE » Sat May 21, 2011 3:51 am UTC

Indeed you are right. But the two houses tend to be pretty similar, so there's a good chance it will pass.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Sat May 21, 2011 5:15 pm UTC

I'm currently writing out a letter to come out to my parents. HolyshitI'mnotsureI'mreadyforthis.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Sat May 21, 2011 5:23 pm UTC

I'll let you in on a secret; nobody is ever ready. Do it anyways. You'll feel better when it's all over.
"The future is the only kind of property that the masters willingly concede to the slaves" - Albert Camus

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Aaeriele
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Sat May 21, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Kilroy(ZTC) wrote:I'll let you in on a secret; nobody is ever ready. Do it anyways. You'll feel better when it's all over.


^
Vaniver wrote:Harvard is a hedge fund that runs the most prestigious dating agency in the world, and incidentally employs famous scientists to do research.

afuzzyduck wrote:ITS MEANT TO BE FLUTTERSHY BUT I JUST SEE AAERIELE! CURSE YOU FORA!

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Sarr
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Mon May 23, 2011 12:18 am UTC

Well, into the breach we go. I stuck the note in with their stuff (they're out of town for a week), and once they arrive I'll direct them to it, if they don't find it on their own. I really hope this goes well.
Rakysh wrote:Basically, xkcd is basically for punching into submission the dumb frat guy in your brain.

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Aaeriele
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Mon May 23, 2011 1:18 am UTC

Sarr wrote:Well, into the breach we go. I stuck the note in with their stuff (they're out of town for a week), and once they arrive I'll direct them to it, if they don't find it on their own. I really hope this goes well.


*hugs* Here's hoping for the best. :)
Vaniver wrote:Harvard is a hedge fund that runs the most prestigious dating agency in the world, and incidentally employs famous scientists to do research.

afuzzyduck wrote:ITS MEANT TO BE FLUTTERSHY BUT I JUST SEE AAERIELE! CURSE YOU FORA!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Mon May 23, 2011 1:38 am UTC

Sarr wrote:Well, into the breach we go. I stuck the note in with their stuff (they're out of town for a week), and once they arrive I'll direct them to it, if they don't find it on their own. I really hope this goes well.

rah-rahl.jpg
rah-rahl.jpg (25.84 KiB) Viewed 3583 times
hugz.jpeg
hugz.jpeg (11.8 KiB) Viewed 3583 times

And assorted other encouragements. :D
The Supreme Ethical Rule: Act so as to elicit the best in others and thereby in thyself.
- Felix Adler, professor, lecturer, and reformer (13 Aug 1851-1933)

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Sarr
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Mon May 23, 2011 1:54 am UTC

Thank you. They've read it, and they say they're going to need some time to deal, but that they love me. This is... good, I suppose. About what I was expecting, if not what I was hoping for. We'll see what happens over the next few days.

Also, post 800.
Rakysh wrote:Basically, xkcd is basically for punching into submission the dumb frat guy in your brain.


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