[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Josephine » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:53 am UTC

Sandry wrote:Also, I love that bands like Nightwish and Within Temptation mean that there's legitimately *something* out there that qualifies as popular music that I can sing along to with my normal voice.

luuuuuckyy :x
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rat4000 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:35 am UTC

Sandry wrote:
rat4000 wrote:"Actual metal" like doom, thrash, viking, death, black, white (or unblack) or progressive? Or one of the other ten subgenres?
I was listening to a bunch of Judas Priest and whatnot that day, so uh. I guess I would say not any of those subgenres, but instead just the top level, mainstream type metal.
But "mainstream" isn't even a genre, it's defined mostly by sales, and that makes it more internally diverse than all the other things I listed. I'd call both Nightwish and Iron Maiden mainstream (since I don't think I could find a person with a fleeting interest in metal who hasn't heard of both) and there's not much common between those.

Metal's really diverse, was my point.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sandry » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:58 pm UTC

rat4000 wrote:
Sandry wrote:
rat4000 wrote:"Actual metal" like doom, thrash, viking, death, black, white (or unblack) or progressive? Or one of the other ten subgenres?
I was listening to a bunch of Judas Priest and whatnot that day, so uh. I guess I would say not any of those subgenres, but instead just the top level, mainstream type metal.
But "mainstream" isn't even a genre, it's defined mostly by sales, and that makes it more internally diverse than all the other things I listed. I'd call both Nightwish and Iron Maiden mainstream (since I don't think I could find a person with a fleeting interest in metal who hasn't heard of both) and there's not much common between those.

Metal's really diverse, was my point.

Totally fair. I think what I'm actually doing in my head is calling all metal I find less interesting "mainstream" and subsequently kind of ignoring what the landscape really looks like. I fail!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby sophyturtle » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:50 pm UTC

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:33 pm UTC

Apropos Metal. Do you know Wacken? http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/ ... &flash=off That's what it looks like from the top.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:27 pm UTC

Wacken IS my bucket list.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:45 pm UTC

Why have I suddenly been hearing "bucket list" multiple times a day, within the past week or so, whereas I never heard it before? The movie it references is 3-4 years old now...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:40 am UTC

Couldn't tell you. I actually don't really like the term, but it was all I could really think of to keep that post as succinct as I wanted it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:04 am UTC

I thought the term was a term before the film...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:19 am UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:I thought the term was a term before the film...


Quite possibly, but it seems like the film was what really made it widely known... originally I believe it came from the phrase "kicked the bucket" as referring to passing away.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby The EGE » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:56 am UTC

So, I guess this is the right thread for this, just something neat that I noticed today.

In The Very Hungry Caterpillar - probably one of the most-sold children's books of all time- the is of course the caterpillar. The caterpillar is definitely male, but after his metamorphosis he is described as a "beautiful butterfly", which is not exactly an adjective commonly applied to males. So... is Eric Carle teaching children about gender nonconformity? Cause if so, that's really cool.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby M.C. » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:15 am UTC

I think you are over analysing the intention of the author, but the cliché of the caterpillar to butterfly transformation is quite apt.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:50 am UTC

Aaeriele wrote:Why have I suddenly been hearing "bucket list" multiple times a day, within the past week or so, whereas I never heard it before? The movie it references is 3-4 years old now...

Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:06 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Aaeriele wrote:Why have I suddenly been hearing "bucket list" multiple times a day, within the past week or so, whereas I never heard it before? The movie it references is 3-4 years old now...

Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon


That was my null hypothesis; just occasionally there are other explanations that I am simply too socially oblivious to have heard of. Nice to have the backing evidence that this is not one of those times. ;)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Bufo_periglenes » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:15 am UTC

Now why have I suddenly been hearing about the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon all over the place? (Sorry; couldn't resist. That did happen to me several years ago, when I first learned the term, which was entertaining.)

I too think that might be an overinterpretation, but on the other hand, maybe using words in a gender-neutral way with small children might make the gender-related language stuff they'll learn later seem less important?
On the subject of children's books, this is adorable.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:18 am UTC

Bufo_periglenes wrote:It's hard to talk about things like this with people I know, because even if they're fine with gayness in the abstract, they don't quite know how to have conversations about the quotidian details of being bisexual every day.


I can totally understand that... unfortunately, I don't have much in the way of insightful advice, since I basically wound up solving that problem by just surrounding myself with the people who didn't have a problem talking about it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:15 am UTC

Sarr wrote:Wacken IS my bucket list.

*googles* So it is something you want to do before you die?

Bufo_periglenes wrote:Now why have I suddenly been hearing about the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon all over the place?

I haven't heard of this term, but of the phenomenon, as recency effect. It's mentioned on the linguistics forum a lot.

Wikipedia does not explain - why is it called Baader-Meinhof phenomenon?

On the subject of children's books, this is adorable.

Awww :D .

Linked from there: Homosexuality in animals Interesting:
- Gay bullying among vultures (in one zoo).
- Sometimes homosexuality can be harmful. If you are a bedbug. A male bedbug that has just eaten, more precisely.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby M.C. » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:01 pm UTC

Monika wrote:
Sarr wrote:Wacken IS my bucket list.

*googles* So it is something you want to do before you die?

Pretty much; it is a list of things you want to do before you kick the bucket.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby sje46 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:25 pm UTC

I'm going to leave this here, because I found it on reddit and it explains transsexualism well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlFO7OmEFu0
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:56 pm UTC

Monika wrote:
Sarr wrote:Wacken IS my bucket list.

*googles* So it is something you want to do before you die?
Pretty much. I'm not the type to actually make a list of stuff, but if I did, Wacken would very possibly be #1.

If you can't tell, I love my metal.

Also, Sje, it was an interesting video, but I'd like to see some sources on the science in it, as I seem to remember that, last I looked, there wasn't an agreed-upon reason for why trans folks exist.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby animeHrmIne » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:03 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:
Bufo_periglenes wrote:It's hard to talk about things like this with people I know, because even if they're fine with gayness in the abstract, they don't quite know how to have conversations about the quotidian details of being bisexual every day.


I can totally understand that... unfortunately, I don't have much in the way of insightful advice, since I basically wound up solving that problem by just surrounding myself with the people who didn't have a problem talking about it.

This. I used to be in a group of friends at school where virtually no one was straight. One demi, four bi, and I'm pan. The only straight girl honestly didn't care, either, and was perfectly comfortable talking with us about same-sex stuff. We're all still friends, but all except the straight girl and I graduated last year. I'm still friends with them, but now the only people I'll have to hang out with at school next year are the typical highschool latent homophobes (not actively anti gay, but will not really accept it, use "gay" as a pejorative, etc.). -_-
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:57 pm UTC

Sarr wrote:
Monika wrote:
Sarr wrote:Wacken IS my bucket list.

*googles* So it is something you want to do before you die?
Pretty much. I'm not the type to actually make a list of stuff, but if I did, Wacken would very possibly be #1.

Well Wacken 2011 (warning: loud website) is sold out, so you'll have to come 2012 :D

If you can't tell, I love my metal.

I would never have guessed :D

Also, Sje, it was an interesting video, but I'd like to see some sources on the science in it, as I seem to remember that, last I looked, there wasn't an agreed-upon reason for why trans folks exist.

The English-speaking trans community (or the parts of it I have seen in blogs, forums, websites so far) does not seem to mention this much. But on every German trans website, blog etc. it's always a core thing.
They don't mention actual studies much, but I recently came across these three English ones:
http://tgegypt.com/2009/08/25/a-sex-dif ... -identity/
http://tgegypt.com/2009/04/06/research- ... arch-2009/
http://tgegypt.com/2008/10/29/transsexu ... 6-10-2008/

It's an interesting contrast to how homosexuality is handled. In the US, "it's not a choice", "born that way", "it's biological" is mentioned a lot by gay people and supporters of gay people and there are several studies with attempts to prove a genetic link (some found a positive genetic link for male homosexuality, but not for female one, others find none). I followed that train of thought and argument for a while, as I was most exposed to gay topics while I lived in the US as a teen (first access to the internet + it was the "the purple Teletubby is gay" time + my host mom had gay friends and also took me to an event about the "two mommies" book). Then I watched a documentary on gay rights in French-German TV (arte) and realized that I had been totally Americanized. In Europe, the answer to "Is being gay biological?" is not "Yes" but "That's a wrong question to ask".
For transsexuality this seems to be the other way around between America and Europe.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby AnnaArmour » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:12 am UTC

I can see that. It's like... even if it isn't genetically-determined, that doesn't make it a choice. A major part of our identities are just a reflection of our experiences, but that doesn't make them any less valid. I know the "born this way" campaign is well-intentioned, but it doesn't seem like a moral dilemma to me. We just don't have the resources to determine whether or not people are born gay. And it shouldn't matter.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:00 am UTC

Spoiler:
Monika wrote:
Sarr wrote:
Monika wrote:
Sarr wrote:Wacken IS my bucket list.

*googles* So it is something you want to do before you die?
Pretty much. I'm not the type to actually make a list of stuff, but if I did, Wacken would very possibly be #1.

Well Wacken 2011 (warning: loud website) is sold out, so you'll have to come 2012 :D

If you can't tell, I love my metal.

I would never have guessed :D

Also, Sje, it was an interesting video, but I'd like to see some sources on the science in it, as I seem to remember that, last I looked, there wasn't an agreed-upon reason for why trans folks exist.

The English-speaking trans community (or the parts of it I have seen in blogs, forums, websites so far) does not seem to mention this much. But on every German trans website, blog etc. it's always a core thing.
They don't mention actual studies much, but I recently came across these three English ones:
http://tgegypt.com/2009/08/25/a-sex-dif ... -identity/
http://tgegypt.com/2009/04/06/research- ... arch-2009/
http://tgegypt.com/2008/10/29/transsexu ... 6-10-2008/

It's an interesting contrast to how homosexuality is handled. In the US, "it's not a choice", "born that way", "it's biological" is mentioned a lot by gay people and supporters of gay people and there are several studies with attempts to prove a genetic link (some found a positive genetic link for male homosexuality, but not for female one, others find none). I followed that train of thought and argument for a while, as I was most exposed to gay topics while I lived in the US as a teen (first access to the internet + it was the "the purple Teletubby is gay" time + my host mom had gay friends and also took me to an event about the "two mommies" book). Then I watched a documentary on gay rights in French-German TV (arte) and realized that I had been totally Americanized. In Europe, the answer to "Is being gay biological?" is not "Yes" but "That's a wrong question to ask".
For transsexuality this seems to be the other way around between America and Europe.

Well, I think my 2012 August Awesomeness Event is going to be GenCon falling on my birthday, so that's unlikely. 2013, we'll see. :D

And that's very interesting. Even having read those, I'm not completely sure I want the cause to be found. It's... yeah, it'd be nice to know that there's a genuine cause of it, but on the other hand, what if not everyone who truly believes themselves to be trans has that particular genetic marker? Could it become something that gets discriminated against? Would people claim that they're "more trans" that someone else because of it? It's something that could really potentially hurt people, and I'm not sure if the benefits of knowing it outweigh the negatives.

In lighter news, I'm probably going to be going to the Pride Festival in DC this weekend. Hell, I might even get my act together and go in proper (i.e. girl's) clothes.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:31 am UTC

Yay girl's clothes! I dress in them sometimes. I kinda like them. They're awesome when you want to wear them!

Personal clothing issues ahoy:
Spoiler:
By "dress in them sometimes", I mean I occasionally wear a long [hairy-leg-covering] skirt with [hairy-leg-covering] socks and/or tights. And it always feels a bit odd, but nice. I do wear women's clothes pretty much always, but it's trousers and cleavage-suppressing shirts. I'd totally wear men's clothes more often if they fit better.

I used to wear skirts, short ones and shaven legs and see-through panty hose, all the #%&@*!! time when I was in my 20s. I thought I had to, in order to be socially #%&@*!! acceptable. Because, you know, being female means that one lives or dies by social #%&@*!! acceptability at least, according to my mother. #%&@*!! #%&@*!! #%&@*!!.

These days, I shave the nether limbs about once a year, when I think I actually want to show them off in a socially #%&@*!! acceptable way. Like, for the occasion of my parents' 50th wedding anniversary. (I think my mother still regrets failing at forcing me to become a cheerleader. Sucks to be ... both of us. ... :( )
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zeroignite » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:01 am UTC

Sarr: I'm visiting DC and going to the Pride parade with jello_raptor. We should totally meetup :)

I just came out as trans to my grandma. She's very caring, and I think she'll be supportive, but she doesn't quite understand what being transgendered means, or why transitioning is important. I think she's also a bit hung up on the fact that gender and sexual orientation aren't in fact connected, and that I've never been terribly "feminine". She is worried that I'm not sure enough; that I'm doing something I might regret... though I think a lot of that is her surprise, which will diminish as she has more time to process. Ah well... having told her makes me feel better, and now I'll have another person using the right pronouns hopefully soon. :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 am UTC

Congratulations Zero! *Offers Hugs*. I'm going to be going to the Festival on sunday, rather than the parade, but if you're still in town for that, I'd love to meet up.

And Poxic, I'm sorry you've got issues with it. I've certainly thought about some of that, with the added lens of "should trans mean being extra-feminine", but I haven't had to go through any of it yet. For what it's worth, I think that the outfits you mentioned as what you do now are nice (I loooove full-length skirts), and honestly, a good bit of the time when thinking about what's "Socially Acceptable", society needs to get its head out of its ass and accept that different =/= bad.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:51 am UTC

Heh. Thanks, Sarr. It's especially ... comforting ... to be comforted by a trans woman about my issues with dressing as a woman. I'm not sure why. I'm not going to question it right now. <3

Also: YAY ZEROIG! (If I may call you "ZeroIg", that is. If I may not, then substitute: "YAY ZEROIGNITE!" at will.) :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zeroignite » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:58 am UTC

BASICALLY, fuck proscriptive gender in all of its forms.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sarr » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:09 am UTC

Zeroignite wrote:BASICALLY, fuck proscriptive gender in all of its forms.

Hell yes.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:23 am UTC

For you, ZeroIg:
Spoiler:
FUCKproscriptivegender.jpg
FUCKproscriptivegender.jpg (100.28 KiB) Viewed 3310 times

/and everyone else who wants it :wink:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:50 am UTC

Yay Zero! That sounds pretty great.

Poxic, you are still awesome I see :P

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Bufo_periglenes » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:12 am UTC

Poxic — that should be a poster. It's great.

Regarding pride season, what are pride parades and festivals usually like?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:23 am UTC

Shush, youse.

/i stole the pic from a googsearch and added the words of ZeroIgnite >.>
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Plasmic-Turtle » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:28 am UTC

AnnaArmour wrote:I can see that. It's like... even if it isn't genetically-determined, that doesn't make it a choice. A major part of our identities are just a reflection of our experiences, but that doesn't make them any less valid. I know the "born this way" campaign is well-intentioned, but it doesn't seem like a moral dilemma to me. We just don't have the resources to determine whether or not people are born gay. And it shouldn't matter.
I really like this post. I think it's something people often don't consider.

Though I guess in many ways the genetic thing is easier to go with, regardless of whether or not it's true, as you don't run the risk of more parents raising their children in strict gender binary ways to avoid 'turning them gay' like I could imagine some doing if it were widely acknowledged that sexuality and gender identity might (largely?) be influenced by post-natal experiences. Meh, I guess the parents that would do that are already doing it though, and supporting the spread of non-factual arguments for the sake of quietening the intolerant portion of the population is never a good way to go. Anyway what I meant to say is I liked your post, and thank you for posting it!

Poxic - love it! :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Kewangji » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:34 am UTC

Yay Zero! :)

Poxic: That poster thing is sweet.

Regarding shaving nether limbs … I want to wear skirts without doing that. I like my hairy legs! Why have some people decided that while it's okay for me (a guy :O) to wear skirts… I have to shave my legs if I do it? (Like, actually decided. And told me. <.<)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:23 am UTC

Regarding genes and stuff: Currently it seems to me that both sexual orientation and gender identity are not genetic, but caused by exposure to hormones in the womb at certain times. Which *usually* matches the genetics, but sometimes there is too much or too little or too early or too late. And that's when we happen.

poxic wrote:[img]FUCKproscriptivegender.jpg[/img]

Fuck yeah!

Kewangji wrote:Regarding shaving nether limbs … I want to wear skirts without doing that. I like my hairy legs! Why have some people decided that while it's okay for me (a guy :O) to wear skirts… I have to shave my legs if I do it? (Like, actually decided. And told me. <.<)

Silly people. You're a guy. Guys aren't supposed to shave their legs. Even when wearing skirts :D .
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Bufo_periglenes » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:23 am UTC

Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas. —Albert Einstein

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zeroignite » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:57 pm UTC

Poxic, that image is awesome. ^_^

Those articles are pretty solid, Bufo. From what I've read at Autostraddle it seems like a great site... I think I'll start reading regularly. (Also, fantastic name :) )
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:10 pm UTC

What does autostraddle mean?
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