[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Amarantha » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:40 pm UTC

Huge congrats, Aaeriele :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby apricity » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:08 pm UTC

feyayeruka wrote:yay to aeriele!!!!


my thoughts on the ever-expanding acronym is that it's starting to get shorter to say "non-heteronormative" or "non-heterosexual" or something like that.
That's just sexuality though. This thread is also for gender minorities. AnimeHrmIne, I like GSM very much.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby feyayeruka » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:26 pm UTC

that was the thing I didn't manage to convey in a good word. something like "anyone who isn't fitting into the sexuality and/or gender categories that are considered 'normal' by the mainstream". but I don't manage to express it eloquently and without possibly offending someone. It feels like there's the "straight, cis-gendered" people, and there's *everyone else*, and we're trying to fit this huge umbrella of diversity into a reasonably workable acronym, that just gets more and more unwieldly, and inevitably ends up leaving out some minority group.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:36 pm UTC

I think when adding letters what has to be considered is whether anyone would feel left out or not welcome. I felt it was important to add A, because the answer to "Are asexual people gay?" is probably "no" in most cases and by most people, and it's necessary to confirm that the asexies are welcome to and part of the "LGBT+" community. It was necessary to add questioning, because people who are unsure whether they might not be heterosexual / cisgender after all need to be assured that they can come and stay before they can pin down their sexual orientation or gender identity. The I was apparently added because intersex people requested this, as it's not obvious whether or not they are welcome to an LGBT community.

I don't like GSM because three letters could mean anything. The standard meaning is Global System for Mobile Communications, which nobody knows, but everybody [in Europe] knows it has to do with cell phones. It can mean a thousand other things like global shared memory or general service medal or game show marathon or game - set - match. There is even the Gay Skinhead Movement.

To be recognizeable, there is not much choice besides extending LGBT or using "queer" (which however could be misunderstood not to cover asexuals or not to cover transgender people).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby sophyturtle » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:00 pm UTC

I just wanted to put in my one more CONGRATULATIONS! it is nice when the good side wins :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby tetris » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:03 pm UTC

Monika wrote:I don't like GSM because three letters could mean anything. The standard meaning is Global System for Mobile Communications, which nobody knows, but everybody [in Europe] knows it has to do with cell phones. It can mean a thousand other things like global shared memory or general service medal or game show marathon or game - set - match. There is even the Gay Skinhead Movement.

To be recognizeable, there is not much choice besides extending LGBT or using "queer" (which however could be misunderstood not to cover asexuals or not to cover transgender people).


I believe context can take care of any ambiguity "GSM" might have in a given situation. If, for instance, this thread was titled "[SAFESPACE] Gender and Sexual Minorities" then any mention of "GSM" within would make perfect sense.

Outside of this thread, of course, it will only make sense once enough people start using it.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:43 pm UTC

Someone posted this on facebook today, and I thought of you :)
Transmisogyny is Misogyny Against All Women
Full text under spoiler, but if you can check out the link you should.
Spoiler:
Transmisogyny is Misogyny Against All Women wrote:By Asher

This was written by my friend Gus Allis, who is rad. She is one of the people I know who really sets the standard of what a “cis ally” should be. Check it out.

Transmisogyny is Misogyny Against All Women: An Open Letter to Cis Feminists

mi·sog·y·ny

/mɪˈsɒdʒəni, maɪ-/ [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-]

–noun

hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

I need to know something. I need to know what a real woman is. I’m a woman and I need to know if I’m real and the only person who can tell me is Bitch. Or maybe it’s Lisa Voegel. Or maybe it’s Rush Limbaugh. Ok, then I need to know two things. I need to know if I’m a real woman and I need to know who can tell me if I am. Because if I’ve learned anything during these past few years, existing on the periphery of the trans community as a cis lover, friend, sister, and solidarity stander of trans folk, it’s that I sure as shit don’t have the authority to determine my own gender identity. I’ve also learned, in no uncertain terms, that the war on trans women’s identities is a war on all women’s identity. Transmisogyny is misogyny against all women.

If you hate, dislike, or mistrust trans women, you’re misogynistic. Trans women are included in the big ol’ group known as women. Want proof? Well look at their name, silly. We call ‘em trans women, not trans chia pets, not trans beach towels, not trans schmeggeggies. Remember high school algebra? Oh hush, yes you do. Let me remind you of this lovely little mathematical rule:

If a=b and b=c, then a=c

If trans women= women and hating, disliking, or mistrusting women= misogyny then…then what? Solve for c.

Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.

But I know what you’re thinking. You’re thinking, “But Gus, I think trans women=/= women so therefore it’s totally not misogynistic to hate, dislike, or mistrust trans women.” And I understand that. Really, I do. But here’s the thing. Now listen carefully, my little chickadee, cuz I’m about to blow your mind.

You’re wrong.

Not only are you wrong, but even thinking that silly, silly, thing is unbelievably, incredibly, fantastically MISOGYNISTIC. And it offends me as a woman. Yes, yes it does. And here’s why. Here’s an annotated list of all the ways your transmisogyny hurts all women. Yes, even you, Bitch.

1. It Polices Women’s Identities

I listed this one first because it’s the easiest. If you are telling trans women they can’t be women, you’re telling every woman on the planet she can’t be whatever she wants. That doesn’t sound very feminist to me. It sounds more like something a pipe smoking white guy from the 50s would say to his daughter who wants to be an astronaut. Gross. Also, you’re basically declaring yourself the authority on other peoples’ identities. And really, my telling you to knock that off is for your own good. Do you have any idea how tiring that would be? Every time someone needed to know their own gender identity, they would have to contact you. Do you know how many people are in the world? Six billion-ish. I suggest, if you do keep this up, that perhaps you may want to get a gmail account, as that has an infinite amount of storage space. You’re going to need that for 6 billion emails with the subject heading, “what am I?”

But let’s get specific. The most common mistake I see here is when the queer community punishes trans women for specific aspects of their identities. Most notably, we’re talking about things that are deemed “unfeminine”. Seriously, folks, are you listening to yourselves here? You’re telling trans women that if they speak loudly/take up space/ defend themselves/have an opinion with which you disagree/wear pants/listen to metal/etc, they’re not real women. Uh, I’m sorry, what? I do all those things. You would shit twice and die if a man told me that. Why am I immune to that criticism? Why can I be butch and still be a woman? Oh, I know why. It’s because I was assigned female at birth, a great beacon of truth for my REAL gender. It’s because of that, and because of my cunt, which you recognize as legitimate. My “real” cunt is a “get out of gender invalidation free” pass. That’s convenient, as it serves for a great transition for…

2. It Polices Women’s Bodies

Here’s the real down and dirty analysis, right here. Wait for it. Wait. Ok. Now.

What the hell does a woman’s body possess that makes it a woman’s body? What does it NEED to have to be female. Did you immediately think of breasts, ovaries, vaginas? Gross. Think about that for more than two minutes and you’ll see why it’s gross. Still don’t get it? Well then go down to the nearest breast cancer walk and tell every single woman with a double mastectomy she’s not a woman. When you’re done with that, go down to your local hospital, ask the nurse where the OR is, and wait outside until you can find a woman fresh out of her hysterectomy surgery, and tell her the news. Yeah, that sounds evil, doesn’t it? Well it’s basically what you’re doing when you’re policing trans women’s bodies. You’re telling all women what they have to have on/in their bodies to be a woman. Which, obviously, is totally gross.

Also, what do you care what a human being looks like all inside out? That’s so WEIRD. How is it any of your business how many kidneys or ovaries or white blood cells I have? Like, that is legitimately weirding me out that you would even care. And can I just say, as a fat girl with a history of pretty serious body issues, it’s kind of triggering. First you wanna regulate trans women’s bodies and then what? Another person feeling like they have any authority over the validity of my body is really scary to me. And it definitely echoes of some very conservative, very anti-choice ideals. My body, my choice, fucker. Because that’s what “they” want to do “us”, isn’t it? Take away our bodily autonomy. Tell us exactly what we can and can not do with our organs. Awkward. You’re pretty much Bill O’Reilly. SO awkward.

(And seriously, this essay is totally not even getting into the super important points about people who are intersex who identify as women. This is mostly because I’m not intersex and I really can’t speak to those experiences, and also because I’m not as up on my shit with intersex issues as I like to believe I am with trans stuff. This is laziness on my part, and writing this essay has made me see this)

3. It Perpetuates the Myth of Shared Girlhood

Now, I don’t know what your girlhood was like, but I’m actually pretty sure it had nothing to do with mine. My childhood (a word I greatly prefer) was pretty much centered on reading, climbing trees, and hating my fat body. Oh yeah, I also lived in a three story mansion in Orange County, California. Kind of a different childhood than, say, my best friend who traveled the country with her hot air balloon pilot parents. Kind of a different childhood than my mother, who grew up a poor Catholic girl in the Italian part of Queens in the 1960s. To say that none of the different privileges, triumphs, oppressions, failures, and experiences of all our lives outweigh the fact that at one point all three of our ovaries released an egg for the very first time is insulting and demeaning. Our differences are important (it’s called intersectionality, maybe you’ve heard of it, “feminist”). The only thing we have in common, all of us, every single woman, cis AND trans, on this planet, is that we call ourselves “woman”. And that’s a big deal, really it is! But I think you’re being just a tad bit racist, classist, sizeist, ageist, ableist, and a hell of lot of other things by telling me that I, a white, upper class, American girl share a girlhood with every other person who was assigned female at birth on this planet.*

I mean, I guess you could say that all girls are affected by patriarchy. But really, all PEOPLE are affected by patriarchy. And, patriarchy looks different, takes different forms, and has different effects in different places, times, classes, religions, and races. So I’m sorry, I know that was totally your ace in the hole for this argument, but it’s been debunked. Sorry for not being sorry.

I hope you now see how wrong you are. I know, I know, you probably feel really really embarrassed now, and that’s totally natural. It’s embarrassing to think that trans women aren’t women. But you’ll get over it. Now all those trans women who’ve been barred from women only shelters, clinics and spaces because you were too into your weird second wave phase to be a decent person? They might not get over it as quickly. Because, honestly, as snarky and hilarious as this essay is (and it is really funny and you know it), the effects of your transmisogyny are significantly less hilarious. Misogyny kills women. Fuck prefixes, fuck specifying what kind of misogyny, what kind of woman. Misogyny kills women. How are those hands looking, Lady Macbeth?

* I want to put something here about how “shared girlhood” also negates trans guys’ identities too, because it basically essentializes that they can never be anything but women since they had a “girlhood”, which is obviously false and busted. I just can’t find the words at the moment.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:53 pm UTC

Thanks for sharing Jessica. That's an awesome letter.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby sophyturtle » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:07 pm UTC

Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.
<3 She had me at "I hate that you even questioned my math"
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zeroignite » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:27 pm UTC

That was one of the earlier essays I read. <3 it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:42 pm UTC

Tranarchism is a good blog in general.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby joshz » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:56 am UTC

sophyturtle wrote:
Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.
<3 She had me at "I hate that you even questioned my math"
Nit: the author is wrong in this comment--hir math was just fine, ze just referenced transitivity instead of substitution.

But I *really* liked that article <3. Thanks for sharing it, Jessica.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:45 pm UTC

joshz wrote:
sophyturtle wrote:
Ok technically that would be trans women= misogyny but you know perfectly well what I mean and I hate that you even questioned my math.
<3 She had me at "I hate that you even questioned my math"
Nit: the author is wrong in this comment--hir math was just fine, ze just referenced transitivity instead of substitution.

But I *really* liked that article <3. Thanks for sharing it, Jessica.
That's what I thought as well, when reading, but I suppressed the math major in me to keep moving onward. Also, I believe that she stated her preferred gender
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 pm UTC

Random collection of updates:

* I went to a furcon and it was fun
* Then when I came home when the weekend was over I found out I had received two scholarships worth $3k+
* Then the pair of cross trainers I had ordered from shoebuy was stolen when the delivery driver left the package in front of my door
* Then I was put on financial aid suspension because I have too many credits in relation to my degree programs, since I attended this same college when I was 15-16
* But I will probably be ok, I am told (I sincerely hope so since that would be a -$13,000 loss for me, which would probably entail homelessness and no more hormones and basically permanently mean no degree)

I feel ok in general. Maybe I am just in shock, or maybe I have played too much poker and the idea of having to draw to see if I win or lose no longer gets through to me. If I do win my appeal I should have all my degrees and certs within 2 semesters though, which is cool to know.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby kinigget » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:27 am UTC

for what it's worth: Good luck.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:33 am UTC

If the financial aid doesn't work out, can you take out (additional?) student loans?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:41 pm UTC

I don't have a co-signer. I also don't know about the repayment plan. I would be transferring after another year, most likely, and whoever my co-signer would be in that situation (if I had one one), I wouldn't want to put on the leash for another 4 years worth of debt; especially since, after transferring, this credit issue would go away and I could receive federal aid and loans again. Unless you were asking if I could take out more federal loans. The answer is no, not unless they accept my appeal.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Fri Aug 19, 2011 2:36 pm UTC

Did you call the people who you bought the product from and tell them it never arrived? There is no confirmation that you received the item, and the post office/courier isn't supposed to leave shit at your door for that reason.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby felltir » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:51 pm UTC

I've had the same problem before, and they said I'd signed for it :/
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby kinigget » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:56 am UTC

thought 1: "I wonder if this is what dysphoria feels like"

thought 2: "yeah this is probably what dysphoria feels like"

thought 3: "wow, this sucks"

fortunately, I managed to fight it off with a mix of anime and portal 2.

edit: okay, so I wrote all that last night, and the weird thing is: today I feel a lot better. As in even better than I did before last night. All I can come up with is that last night was some kind of breakthrough.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby animeHrmIne » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:22 pm UTC

I found an alternative! =P

Of course, the second P could easily be polysexual. And the second I could be . . . something? And the E would be . . .

((This is a joke. It just seemed kind of funny that I found this on my tumblr today. =D ))
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:51 pm UTC

The people who work at the comp sci major's computer lab are all pretty transphobic, and this is upsetting to me. Especially since one is gay. Admittedly that's prison gay (and in a somewhat literal rather than just derogatory sense also as he has felonies), but still. This is upsetting because two of them are star students and this makes me think: these people are representative of the sort that would be my coworkers after graduating. In which case, I probably couldn't even get a job in spite of my stellar academic record because I wouldn't pass the interview process.
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Second edit this time good news! My financial aid appeal has been won but not finalized. They could still cut my hours or restrict the degrees I can pursue. Still incredibly relieved though.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PM 2Ring » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:14 pm UTC

Hello everybody. I was basically offline for about 9 months. I've been back online for a little while but I haven't posted in this thread, since I feel that I ought to catch up on the posts I missed while I was away. Unfortunately, I haven't yet made the time to read all of them, but I have read the last 5 pages or so. But I really want to make a few comments. So I shall. :)

Firstly, a big congratulations to Aaeriele for her recent legal victory. :D


superglucose wrote:I guess that's why I don't really identify with the "community." I don't feel like it goes about it the right way and I don't feel like there's a cohesive community. I feel like whatever community is invented is really invented as a sort of "Us vs them" mentality which I think fosters resentment for people who don't think the same way you do (if straight people are "the enemy" then you start harboring resentment towards straight people). Heck, just look at the way certain camps within the so-called community treat other camps. Some LGBs don't accept the Ts, some LGBTs don't accept the As, and some LGBTAs don't accept the Ps. Then we're all boiled down to some letter.

[...]

Beyond that if you have questions, go ahead and ask them. If you want to know if I could be attracted to you or if I am attracted to you or interested in you? Ask. But don't label me and for the love of god don't hear what I say and then respond with "Ah, you're clearly X" or "Ah, well you're not Y but you could X." I'm Superglucose, that's the only label I can safely wear.


You make lots of excellent points, superglucose. The community is generally not very cohesive, apart from little pockets like this one. The sexuality / gender landscape just covers so much territory that it's hard to even get us all to agree on a common term to describe people like us, what to speak of sharing common goals, philosophies, etc. And while I totally agree with your statements about the "Us vs them" mentality and how it can lead to seeing straight people as "the enemy", I believe that at this stage we don't have a lot of choice. One of the main things we all have in common is that despite vast improvements in queer rights around the world in the last few decades we are still generally discriminated against in various ways by the majority straight society. So for political reasons we need to present at least the facade of a united front. As the great Benjamin Franklin said: "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

As far as many straight people are concerned, they don't really see a difference between the different types of queer people, apart from differences of degree and differences due to our birth gender (ie what got written on our birth certificate). I've had conversations with well-educated straight people who firmly believe that trans is just a more extreme form of gay. :roll:

On the topic of labels, they have their good and bad points. If they are understood as ways of referring to regions of the sexuality / gender landscape, like signposts, they can be useful, as they can give us the points of reference we need to discuss this complex & subtle topic. Their bad side arises when we try to attach them to individuals because that is essentially an attempt to chain the person to the signpost. Actually, it's even worse that that because we all have different interpretations of what the labels mean, which just adds to the possible confusions & misunderstandings.



Kilroy(ZTC) wrote:The people who work at the comp sci major's computer lab are all pretty transphobic, and this is upsetting to me. Especially since one is gay. Admittedly that's prison gay (and in a somewhat literal rather than just derogatory sense also as he has felonies), but still. This is upsetting because two of them are star students and this makes me think: these people are representative of the sort that would be my coworkers after graduating. In which case, I probably couldn't even get a job in spite of my stellar academic record because I wouldn't pass the interview process.


*big hugs, Kilroy* Don't let them get to you. You will find transphobic people wherever you go (even among gay people). OTOH, there are also plenty of queer-friendly people in IT. Which makes sense, since one of the founders of computer science, A. M. Turing, was gay, and modern computer architecture & chip design owes a lot to the work of Lynn Conway, a trans woman.

It's unfortunate, but there's a long "tradition" of animosity between gay & trans. Of course there are plenty of gay people that are quite accepting of trans people & vice versa, but there are also plenty that are not. I suspect that the non-accepting ones generally have some issues with their own self-image and self-acceptance, and / or with the stereotypes inflicted upon us by straight society.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:40 am UTC

I saw a girl with a really cute skirt. I asked where she got it and she said "a thrift store." I would've taken the dirty looks she gave me and the "ewww what are you a creep?" but I just wanted a skirt that looked like that :cry:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:48 pm UTC

Thrift stores are awesome - though as you get to higher sizes that awesomeness decreases.
What did it look like?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:17 pm UTC

navy blue and whle not tight on the body was close to the body with blue... I dunno, ripples? horizontally circling the body ever few inches.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:36 pm UTC

I hope you don't mind if I try and figure out what kind of skirt it was.
Here are some A-line skirts, which sort of fit your description
Spoiler:
A-line skirt, a skirt with a slight flare, roughly in the shape of a capital letter A
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I think it's an a-line personally. But, it might be a bell-shaped skirt
Spoiler:
Bell-shaped skirt, flared noticeably from the waist but then, unlike a church bell, cylindrical for much of its length.
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The horizontal circling makes me think maybe you mean a peasant or prairie skirt?
Spoiler:
a flared skirt with one or more flounces or tiers
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It could also be a tiered skirt...
Spoiler:
Tiered skirt, made of several horizontal layers, each wider than the one above, and divided by stitching. Layers may look identical in solid-colored garments, or may differ when made of printed fabrics.
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do any of those look right
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:40 pm UTC

Not quite. It's like a mix of the peasant skirt and the tiered skirt but it didn't seem to flare at all... or narrow.

EDIT: And I have no problems with this. Worst case scenario I just learn more about the kinds of skirts I want :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:00 pm UTC

More looks under spoiler.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:09 pm UTC

Gonna have to find some of those maxi skirts so I don't have to shave my legs.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:29 pm UTC

They are really pretty :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:34 pm UTC

Oh so my friend's started HRT. I'm really happy for her: it's the first step towards SRS which is something she's really, REALLY wanted
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(I ended up talking her down from chopping off her wang once with the promise of SRS and helped convince her that not only was it worth it but it's what she wanted).
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It's a pity she doesn't live closer.

Though I have to say her raging self-hate makes bedroom stuff a bit challenging for me :P
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Chuff » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:28 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:More looks under spoiler.
Spoiler:
Broomstick skirt
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That is fantastic.
Last edited by Chuff on Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:34 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:31 pm UTC

I'm going to hit up the SPCA thrift store today before class and see if they've got any cute skirts. How are skirts sized?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:40 pm UTC

Hahahahahahahaha....Oh. Sorry. I wasn't laughing at your desire for a skirt at all, just amused by the notion of there being some kind of standard sizing in the world of women's clothing (and I'm not laughing at the fact that you didn't know this, one wouldn't know it without trying clothes on, really). I have clothes that are all the way from size 8 to size 14, and it's different every store/brand. Here's a basic guide, though, so you know what ballpark you're in. http://www.womenssizechart.com/ The good news is that skirts are the easiest item of women's clothing to fit (for the most part), because, unless it's a tight pencil skirt, you really only have to get the waist right.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:43 pm UTC

14-16 then.

Aaaaaand now I feel fat.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:57 pm UTC

superglucose wrote:14-16 then.

Aaaaaand now I feel fat.

That's not even XL. You're thin.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby superglucose » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:09 pm UTC

On a side note it's really, really scary that I looked at the chart and saw where I was (which is healthy for a man my height, by the way) and have internalized the "size 6 = ideal" to the point that finding out I'm size 16 makes me feel really fat and actually hits my self esteem.

I'm a man.

What.

The.

Fuck.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby podbaydoor » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:15 pm UTC

...the other day I had a moment of feeling awful because I fit more into size 2 than size 1. I hate to say it, but now I've taken up running again in part because of that. I know this sounds like bragging. It's not. I swear it's not. I can't control the moment of shame for realizing I've gone up a size.

Let us collectively slap the marketing, fashion, and culture industries for getting us to this state.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PictureSarah » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:18 pm UTC

I, meanwhile, celebrate when my size 8 jeans fit easily, rather than having to wedge myself into them. Also, I have seen pictures of myself in a bathing suit at a size 8, and I looked mostly pretty good? I feel downright hideous right now, and I'm mostly in size 10/12 pants. It's bizarre to me that I have felt more confident while weighing more. Sigh.
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