[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

[Brace]

My institutional GPA has never been a 4.0 anyway due to classes I took when I was younger. It will mean my major GPA for all three degrees will go down to somewhere in there though, yeah. My institutional GPA will be 3.49 if I get an A in this other class (it's 3.49 now), and it is unlikely I will be able to break 3.5 to get official honors on my degree. I will be ineligible for any of the major scholarships and have no distinctions to mention on a resume.

[ShortChelsea]

*hugs*

[PerchloricAcid]

It's time (to end marriage discrimination)!

[Brace]

Done for the semester. Just waiting on grades to come in.

Other interesting developments have happened also but they're probably not safespace appropriate I guess.

[old_gwynevere]

I finished reading the second section of Popper Selections edited by David Miller at ~1:00AM, after many false starts. The second section was comprised of an attack on irrationalism, and reasons why rationalism should be adopted in lieu, despite its reliance on faith. Very interesting so far. I particularly like that the selections aren't too technical. The only problem that I'm having is staying focused on the content while I'm reading; I tend to ruminate over things that I have read previously, to make sure that I have a firm grasp on them. It's a habit that I have to get over, I guess. I started section three over when I was a few pages in because I realized that I didn't really understand what Sir Karl Popper was talking about.

Also, I seem to be able to learn and retain knowledge if I am introduced to it late at night or early in the morning. Like, 9:00PM to 1:00AM. That's valuable to know.

[Brace]

I got an A.

[PM 2Ring]

I got an A.

Well done, Brace!

[Deva]

Congratulations.

[Brace]

I finished reading the second section of Popper Selections edited by David Miller at ~1:00AM, after many false starts. The second section was comprised of an attack on irrationalism, and reasons why rationalism should be adopted in lieu, despite its reliance on faith. Very interesting so far. I particularly like that the selections aren't too technical. The only problem that I'm having is staying focused on the content while I'm reading; I tend to ruminate over things that I have read previously, to make sure that I have a firm grasp on them. It's a habit that I have to get over, I guess. I started section three over when I was a few pages in because I realized that I didn't really understand what Sir Karl Popper was talking about.

Also, I seem to be able to learn and retain knowledge if I am introduced to it late at night or early in the morning. Like, 9:00PM to 1:00AM. That's valuable to know.

It is good to hear you are enjoying this. I have the same reading problem as you, sometimes I will end up following my own train of thought for an hour before realizing I've stopped on like, page 17 of a 500 page book. It is not a very efficient way to read. It can be fun if you have the time though.

Thanks Deva, Thanks PM 2Ring. I actually sort of feel like this leaves a void in me, and like I kind of have to go on for a 4 year degree now to justify it. That probably doesn't make any sense.

[Monika]

I got an A.

Congrats!

So this means you don't run into the 3.499 GPA problem now?

I actually sort of feel like this leaves a void in me, and like I kind of have to go on for a 4 year degree now to justify it. That probably doesn't make any sense.

Well, you wanted to do 4 years, right?

[Brace]

Congrats?

So this means you don't run into the 3.499 GPA problem now?

Thanks. I'm at 3.53 right now :3 Which actually means that, since the final class I need for my degrees is 3 credits and this class was 4, a B in it (if it were somehow randomly to occur) wouldn't prevent me from graduating with honors.

Well, you wanted to do 4 years, right?

I do. The student standard of living is somewhat limiting, though, and entails a much bigger debt load and a longer wait for surgery probably. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get an orchiectomy as a stopgap measure.

[sambot5]

I got an A.

YAY BRACE!!!! You go, girl!

I'm at 3.53 right now :3 Which actually means that, since the final class I need for my degrees is 3 credits and this class was 4, a B in it (if it were somehow randomly to occur) wouldn't prevent me from graduating with honors.

I'm so happy for you!

[PerchloricAcid]

I got an A.

YAY BRACE!!!! You go, girl!

Damn, this was the exact same thing I was going to write, then I saw your post.
I'll have to come up with something original now.
Gz Brace
(still, ''you go, girl'' is much better )


Unfortunately, I have something not so bright to share with you people now.
I'll spoiler it just in case.

Spoiler:

One of my relatives is a fashion designer; somewhat famous, too.
Yesterday, while we chatted randomly, she bought up how she's "sick of all those gays" in the fashion industry, and "those bisexuals, ya know, I'm sick of them, too".
I tried to talk her out of it, firstly by asking what exactly bothers her, when she was like "well, all their pretending to be something and all their feminised body language" *gesticulates* etc. I told her that I know much more straight girls that act like that than gay guys, but she kept saying that she "knows what she's seen" etc. So, I tried explaining to her that not all gay/bi people are like that, and she acted just simply weird. And nervous.
I was on the brink of coming out to her [as bisexual], at least just to prove that not all bisexuals are "like that", or whatever, but I refrained, as we were to leave 5mins later than that.

However, I felt really bad about this. I'd like to tell her to try not saying such things in front of various people, at least because she never knows when someone might end up getting hurt. I'd love to change her opinion, though.

I actually recall a conversation years ago in which she was telling me how she believes we all "have something bisexual in us". I hadn't told her about mi bisexuality then because I was afraid she'd attribute it to my teen rebelliousness, as I was quite rebellious at the time, and wouldn't take it seriously.

[natashatasha]

Congratulations Brace; your scores are amazing, much more than I've been able to achieve for the past three years.

I've decided to start seeing a counsellor again; I find myself really distracted, constantly thinking about transition and unable to concentrate at all on my work & feeling down all the time I'm not actually interacting with someone. I've been unable to find a doctor that can help me here, so I'll need to wait until I'm in Melbourne next year. Unfortunately, whether I can get a PhD position next year depends very heavily on how I go this year (I need a first-class Honours), which is causing me a lot of stress, which is a horrible positive-feedback mechanism for making things worse.

Even worse, my parents don't seem to be as supportive as they once did, and one of my friends who said he was supportive outright told me that he opposes the idea; I only came out to more people as trans* because of the good reactions I got from my friends. How many of them were lying? Was it a stupid idea to come out to so many of them? I trust all my friends individually, but what is that worth if I also trusted the one that did a complete turnaround (and had been my friend for over a decade)? Am I just a bad judge of character? So that's sent me off on a somewhat paranoid spiel.

All my friends in Melbourne got my pronouns wrong every single time; I know how hard it is to internalise (I found a wonderful blog on the issue), but all my friends here get it right every single time. It’s such a tiny thing, too, but every time I hear ‘he’ or my male name used it feels like a hammer steadily driving a nail home.

I know I only seem to post here when I’m having a bad time, but this is the only Safespace I have without having to constantly whinge to my friends and make them feel bad. I hate feeling like I’m just ‘using’ this community, rather than contributing, so I thought I’d share this blog post for everyone, one that I identify fairly strongly with:

Because I Choose It, by Zinnia Jones

She discusses how from an early age the only thing she identified herself as was ‘smart’, and after that was blown up there was nothing left (exactly like me), and then goes on to discuss her transsexuality, which I found interesting because she doesn’t feel dysphoric but prefers to be a woman (something I don’t identify with; I definitely feel dysphoric).

Edit: Here's some nice music; Reflection from Disney's Mulan. It's a fairly sad song, if you haven't seen the movie.

[FreyasSpirit]

Good job Brace

Perchloric, if you get the courage, you should try talking to her. Having someone she knows talking to her might improve her opinion.

natashatasha, *HUG*
I'm not sure if I can offer much advice towards school, the quarter where I decided to transition, but wasn't able to, but I can make an offer of hugs. People's reactions change over time and only time will tell whether your friends are ultimately supportive. I'm not sure if it helps, but I thought of it as a good way to find out who my real friends are.

Don't feel bad about only taking support and not giving any. You're at the stage where you're still fighting to be yourself. One day, you'll get there and you can turn around and help people who aren't quite as far along as you.


EDIT: wee just saw iron maiden The crowd was very dead, but the show was really good. Bruce Dickenson sung his heart out.

Would anyone in the bay area be interested in a meetup?

[Monika]

PerchloridAcid: That sucks. I wish people wouldn't say (and think) such things.

Natasha: If you still feel okay talking to that friend, maybe you can tell him more about your experience of dysphoria and how you feel intensely that you are a woman. If he is the average clueless cis person, he probably thinks trans women are "men who want to be women" and transition to be able to wear dresses or do other womanly things. At least that's what clueless me thought until about two years ago. So he might think it's helpful for him to tell you you don't need to transition to do womanly things (or whatever unsupportive things he's been saying).
Also, there is some hope that once you start transitioning with hormones and your body looks more feminine some people who simply cannot "see" you as a woman now become more supportive and better with names and pronouns, too.

[sambot5]

Unfortunately, I have something not so bright to share with you people now.
I'll spoiler it just in case.

Spoiler:

One of my relatives is a fashion designer; somewhat famous, too.
Yesterday, while we chatted randomly, she bought up how she's "sick of all those gays" in the fashion industry, and "those bisexuals, ya know, I'm sick of them, too".
I tried to talk her out of it, firstly by asking what exactly bothers her, when she was like "well, all their pretending to be something and all their feminised body language" *gesticulates* etc. I told her that I know much more straight girls that act like that than gay guys, but she kept saying that she "knows what she's seen" etc. So, I tried explaining to her that not all gay/bi people are like that, and she acted just simply weird. And nervous.
I was on the brink of coming out to her [as bisexual], at least just to prove that not all bisexuals are "like that", or whatever, but I refrained, as we were to leave 5mins later than that.

However, I felt really bad about this. I'd like to tell her to try not saying such things in front of various people, at least because she never knows when someone might end up getting hurt. I'd love to change her opinion, though.

I actually recall a conversation years ago in which she was telling me how she believes we all "have something bisexual in us". I hadn't told her about mi bisexuality then because I was afraid she'd attribute it to my teen rebelliousness, as I was quite rebellious at the time, and wouldn't take it seriously.

As an atheist, I find it very difficult to harbor my parents' Christianity. I find that I frequently desire to get into arguments with religious people, just so I can show that my beliefs are (in my opinion) more correct than theirs. After reading your post, however, I realized that I'm no better than, for example, a homophobic person yelling at a same-sex couple who is holding hands in public.

In a way, I can almost understand why religious people feel that they are obligated to picket at pride parades. How can we not proselytize when a person's beliefs are so diametrically different than ours?

[Brace]

The battery on my new motorcycle that I ride daily died randomly an hour before work, and I got written up for not providing sufficient call-off notice. I need a new job. Lucky me I'm one slip up or further unlucky incident away from losing this one then I guess!

Edit: A bad battery seems like the most likely culprit. At least that's an easy fix.

[Aaeriele]

Finally got official wedding photos uploaded:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1167976867 ... directlink

[natashatasha]

Finally got official wedding photos uploaded:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1167976867 ... directlink

Oh my God, everything about that is so beautiful. And that dress *swoons*. I only hope one day I look half so gorgeous.

That album was the highlight of my day ^_^

[Monika]

Finally got official wedding photos uploaded:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1167976867 ... directlink

Oh em gee, sooo lovely sooo pretty! <3 <3 <3

And bubbles! They did bubbles at my wedding, too!

[Brace]

You look amazing. Congratulations on your wedding, it looks like you really pulled out all the stops and you look happy in every picture.

[FreyasSpirit]

Finally got official wedding photos uploaded:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1167976867 ... directlink

You look incredible. Even more than that is your smile. You just look so happy in so many of the pictures.

Congratulations!

[Bassoon]

Went to my sister's wedding. Spoiler for hella heteronormativity.

Spoiler:

My extended family has a terrible track record with asking me as to whether I have a girlfriend. I'm gay, but they don't know. My close family does, but I've chosen not to tell my extended family because they're really conservative and mostly really old as well, so it A) wouldn't go too well, and B) would be a moot point, as they might no longer be alive if I'm married to some of the same sex. So they were pressuring me all night, asking if I had a girlfriend, trying to get me to catch the garter, and all sorts of shit like that.

A) I'm gay, so knock it off with the girlfriend shit.
B) I'm single, and I'm okay with that. Stop implying that because I'm single, I have less value.

Additionally, in the sermon, the pastor provided a little jab at same sex marriage, which got me so angry that I almost walked out of the wedding, but did not, because I was in the first row, and the bride is my sister, and it's her wedding, and I didn't want to cause a scene. Screw that. I didn't come to the wedding to be told that I have little to no worth in society by some stupid pastor who can't see past his own hate. I'm so mad he said anything about it at all, because it wasn't a service. It was a fucking wedding. Just because you believe something doesn't mean the entire wedding party wants to hear it. Keep your fucked-up beliefs to yourself.

Seriously, I'm in a horrible mood now and really just need some hugs. :/

[poxic]

{{{{Hugs}}}}

I get rankled by sermons in the middle of functions -- my grandmother's funeral service, my brother's wedding. We're there to celebrate a life, or two lives entwining. We're only in this damn building listening to damn you because tradition or something. We're not here to be berated or lectured or Saved, kthx.

I'm sensitive to it because of my history, experiencing negative things because of religion. It doesn't seem to bother a lot of others in my family, but they're mostly agnostic/yeahwhatever. It rolls right off their backs. A religion never did anything particularly harmful to them beyond maybe making it hard to get a beer on Sundays.

In that vein: {{{{{more hugs }}}}}

[Kewangji]

Have some *hugs*, Bassoon.

[Monika]

{{{{{{{{{{{{ Bassoon }}}}}}}}}}}}

[sambot5]

*gives bassoon a massive hug* I'm sorry that you had to deal with that crap.

In semi-related news, I discovered the latest issue of Batman (thanks reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaymers/comments/xytig/the_crime_too_many_gays_have_faced_bullying_by/). I normally don't read too many comics besides a few webcomics like xkcd, but I really loved this one. Batman tackles homophobic bullying in this issue, and it kinda gave me a V for Vendetta vibe. Are there any other comics with LGBTIQQA characters and/or discuss related issues that people recommend?

[lanicita]

I'm sorry, Bassoon. Spoilered for another heteronormative wedding.

Spoiler:

I was the bridesmaid for one of my good friends at her Catholic wedding. She didn't know at the time that I'm bi, but she did know that one of the other bridesmaids is. Still included the "marriage is between a man and a woman" part of the service. I always wonder if you can ask them to take that part out. I kind of suspect the church wouldn't allow it, although I don't know if my friend would have asked. As much as I know she's not homophobic, I also don't know if she's in favor of same-sex marriage. But still, having that line in a wedding ceremony seems unnecessary, whether or not you're in favor of same-sex marriage.

[Aaeriele]

As sambot5 noted, Batman#12 touches on the topic of homophobic bullying, and handles it excellently.

(Note: in addition to the obvious trigger warning for homophobic bullying, there is some visual depiction of the results of violence and usage of slurs.)

Two spreads from the issue (note - these are from separate places in the issue):
http://i.imgur.com/iPnD0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SaVkn.jpg

I've also transcribed them here:
http://wrttn.in/c797fb

(Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaymers/comment ... llying_by/)

[FreyasSpirit]

*hugs Bassoon*

[Bassoon]

Thanks for the hugs everyone, glad to know I'm not alone in feeling alienated at weddings.

[Cathy]

Finally got official wedding photos uploaded:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1167976867 ... directlink

Oh my gosh, you look so beautiful!!! I squee'd looking through these. That was a lovely wedding ceremony. Congrats!!

[PerchloricAcid]

Thanks for the support @all who gave me feedback.
I considered talking to her, and had actually decided to do so today. Unfortunately, she was in a really bad mood, so I figured I'd get back to it some time in the future. I'm not really sure when, though, because I didn't feel very pleasant spending time with her today, so she won't really be on my priority list of people I'd like to spend the small amount of time that's left of my visit home.

Natasha, what Monika said - I believe a lot of people just don't have a clue about that kind of stuff. You can always try reminding them to use your female name etc. People can, and will, get used to it

sambot5, I can relate to what you said. I used to be somewhat of a militant atheist, but realised it sucks to act like that. I am still an atheist, but I'm not militant about it, I'd say, at all. I respect other peoples religion, and even though I do like making jokes about that kind of stuff etc - I do not make fun of people who believe, nor do I try to change their mind. I do try to change their minds regarding certain topics - homophobia, for example.

Aaeriele, thanks for sharing.

Hugs for Bassoon [and lanicita, if wanted!], a little late though. I'll quote Monika on my "case": I wish people wouldn't say (and think) such things. It seems that a lot of weddings tend to suck. Like, grow the fuck up people, and be happy about the couple being married right now, and not unhappy because you disapprove some other people getting married. Seriously, thefuck!

---

On a happier note, I've been contemplating about making a small brochure called "gay is okay" in Serbian (I live in Serbia) which I'd try to spread on the local interwebs. I'd define the basics, such as gender/sex, the meaning of lgbttiq, and terms such as "coming out". I would tackle questions such as why paedophilia and lgbttiq stuff are not the same, the "four walls" argument (it's quite popular here in Serbia - "yeah, yeah, I'm okay with people being gay, just as long as they're gay in their four walls" ), "the gay lifestyle", and such, but in the friendliest possible manner I can. My goal is to reduce homophobia, so I should not act in an attacking manner, rather in an assertive "let's have a little chat" manner. I've got the impression that people are homophobic because they (think they) don't know any lgbttiq people, or anything about them. I've heard about ex-homophobes ceasing to be homophobes after meeting some gay people and becoming friends with them
In autumn 2011, a girl was beaten up for wearing a pro-lgbt shirt under her jacket [some wackos saw her wearing the shirt while she hadn't put on the jacket yet, and followed her, only to attack her with a knife. sadly, the guy who attacked her was released, as he was a minor; i think he was 16. she was okay after the incident, but only thanks to her self-defence, because hadn't she tried to defend herself, she would have most probably ended up being killed. ]
Even though things seem to be becoming better for the lgbttiq community, they have yet to improve. I figured this could be my 5 cents.

Besides stuff I'd already mentioned, I've been thinking about posting parts of coming out/meeting partners/similar experiences that can be found on Serbian lgbttiq websites. I hope that a story of a real human being might touch them and produce thoughts such as: wait a sec, (s)he's a person with feelings, fears, moments of joy, just like me...
I'd also thought about posting pictures of non-stereotypical lgbt people, such as transsexual women who look totally like cis women, Rob Halford of Judas Priest (:D) - who actually started the trend of leather&spikes among metal fans, by ''borrowing'' it from the bdsm culture - he's publicly gay btw, etc. I'm not sure how exactly I'd fit all this in, though. I've just done the "mini dictionary" for now.
I'd try to write informal and direct, as if I were talking with somebody.
Of course, I'd provide links to Serbian lgbttiq websites at the end.

So - the general idea is to show that lgbttiq people are people, just like straight people. And to make the lgbttiq stuff closer to non-lgbtiqq people.
People vastly vary; there are "feminised" guy and gals, "masculinised" guys and gals, even people who aren't exactly guys or gals, there are trans and cis people, and besides all this, they can all be homo-, bi-, hetero-, or even a- sexual. But, basically, it's like being blonde or black or short, we're all people and there's no damn reason for hating anybody. I'm trying to convey this idea.

Any ideas? Criticism of my ideas?
Am I doing something that might be counter-productive?

Btw, sorry if I mixed up some tenses, I tend to do so, yet find experimenting with non-mainstream past tenses amusing.

[a_fuzzyduck]

The only suggestion I'd make is that you avoid using "gay" as an umbrella term as much as you can. Not sure how well "queer" (or translations/equivalents) work in Serbian/Serbo-Croat. Other than that it seems good. Maybe mention self defence classes/groups in the brochure too - based on that one nasty incident (and my limited knowledge of queer experience in South Eastern Europe), it might be a useful tool.

Otherwise the idea all seems pretty good to me

[PerchloricAcid]

As far as I know, here the word gay is often informally used as an umbrella term, while "LGBT" is more used in formal language. The other letters are often not even mentioned (that's one thing I'll try to raise awareness about). However, I wouldn't use gay as an umbrella term anyway (even though it may contain the "L" in itself, it certainly does not have to contain the rest of the letters), I just put it this way because it was easiest for me to write like that

You gave me an additional idea. There are some SOS numbers lgbttiq people can call if they have any questions or feel upset, so I'll add them, too.

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

[Monika]

Perchlor, that sounds like a good plan, good luck with that!

[PerchloricAcid]

Thanks.

I've got heaps of stuff to do, and yet, here I am, writing stuff for this brochure.

I've just read some statistical data from 2008 and 2010 on homophobia in Serbia.
The results are quite devastating, but there seems to be a slight improvement in 2010 compared to 2008.

62% of parents really believe that they could "reason" with their child and convince them to become straight by talking. 17% would hit their children with the same goal.

23% people "don't have an opinion" whether physical violence against lgbt people is right or wrong.

20% people think that lgbt people have no problems at all.

35% people think that organisations that promote the rights of lgbt people should be banned, and only 4% people think they should be encouraged (31% people think they should be equally treated as all other organisations - neither banned nor especially encouraged).

Only 2% of people who declare themselves as "nationalists" are NOT homophobic.

Only 4% of the people who voted for the political party that won this year are NOT homophobic.

This is interesting: as the degree of education rises, the degree of homophobia decreases. 18% of people with university degrees are not homophobic, while 2% of people with only elementary school are not homophobic.

[PerchloricAcid]

Could anybody provide some resources about the fact that there were lgbt people during the whole history of mankind? And about the numbers?
I'm trying to google this up, but I'm failing miserably.

Once somebody told me even that the percent of lesbian and gay (not sure whether bisexual counts, but I guess not) people is almost constant through time, and is something close to 10%. I'm not able to find information to back this up, though.

[TheMaskedGecko]

Once somebody told me even that the percent of lesbian and gay (not sure whether bisexual counts, but I guess not) people is almost constant through time, and is something close to 10%. I'm not able to find information to back this up, though.

Not sure how that'd be measured. Especially since it seems that different cultures at different times in history had completely different ideas about what sexuality was (Romans/ Greeks not caring as long as you were a dominant male, Ancient Chinese only really caring about successful procreation (straights and bis accepted, 100% gay people not so much)). It probably comes down to a contrast between personal sexuality and the social constructs surrounding them.

The 10% quote generally comes from Alfred Kinseyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey, and is also tricky to justify.

As for resources, all I can suggest is following the citations from the relevant wiki page. Sorry.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history