[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:20 pm UTC

Also, don't be too hard on yourself. Scary things are scary, and it's totally okay to change your plans for reaching your goal. Coming out all at once, in public, on a no-backsies platform, is more than I could do right now.

Are there smaller steps you could take? Maybe choose your least intimidating parent and go for a walk with them. Walking is a great courage-builder and anxiety-tamer. Words can just pop out of their own accord when you're on a jaunt through a park. Making something like that an interim goal can take the edge off of The Big Out and help build your motivation.

I looked around online for a diagram of comfort zone vs. achievement zone and didn't like any of the ones I found. Here, have one I made in Paint. :P

Spoiler:
bullseye.png
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:49 pm UTC

That's a neat diagram.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NecklaceOfShadow » Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:30 am UTC

CN: dysphoria
Spoiler:
Just spent a while crying because no matter what, I can't get pregnant and have a child. I'm not even sure if I want GRS, but I know it wouldn't solve one of my biggest sources of dysphoria. If anything, it could amplify it, knowing that I'm soooo close, yet so far away.

Come on, devil. Prove to me that you exist. Willing soul for a Faustian bargain. Get me now, before I change my mind.
Significantly less weird than I used to be. Still pretty weird.

οὗτός ἐστιν Ἀγαμέμνων, ἐμὸς
πόσις, νεκρὸς δὲ τῆσδε δεξιᾶς χερός
ἔργον δικαίας τέκτονος. τάδ’ ὧδ’ ἔχει.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:32 pm UTC

*hugs NecklaceOfShadow*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DR6 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:48 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:CN: dysphoria
Spoiler:
Just spent a while crying because no matter what, I can't get pregnant and have a child. I'm not even sure if I want GRS, but I know it wouldn't solve one of my biggest sources of dysphoria. If anything, it could amplify it, knowing that I'm soooo close, yet so far away.

Come on, devil. Prove to me that you exist. Willing soul for a Faustian bargain. Get me now, before I change my mind.


I don't know if this helps or not, but there are tons of cis women that can't do that either, so not being able to do that doesn't really make you less of a woman in any way. If you hold on to that, maybe you can feel better.

If that doesn't help, take this instead -> (Endless internet hugs here)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby existentialpanda » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:14 am UTC

Thank you all for your kind words (and poxic, that diagram of yours is wonderful, thank you for that) and I'm pleased to report that I fucking did it :D :D :D

And it went pretty much exactly as I expected it to, in that everybody carried on as if I'd said the sky was blue today (except for one friend, who came and hugged me not 30 seconds after I'd clicked post, even though she already knew), which was exactly what I'd hoped for.

Still probably have to tell my parents, though, because they barely ever go on FB - and that still scares me too, even though it shouldn't. I actually find the prospect of telling people in person even freakier than the prospect of telling people over the internet, which is one reason I wanted to do the Facebook route (over the past few weeks, multiple members of my house have come out as transgender during dinner announcements - in front of a large room full of people - and I have vast amounts of respect for those people because I'm nowhere near being able to do something like that) Still. Maybe it'll be a bit easier, now that I've done this part ^_^

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College :D I'm off to grad school to go play with viruses, because viruses are awesome :D :D :D

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:37 am UTC

NoS <3

existentialpanda wrote:
Monika wrote:Is this high school or college graduation that is about to happen?

College :D I'm off to grad school to go play with viruses, because viruses are awesome :D :D :D


Aww yeah more queer bio grad students. High five!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:50 am UTC

WOO PANDA!
All empires fall.
Don't look back.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:44 am UTC

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DR6 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:17 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay


I see you're living up to your avatar :p

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:30 pm UTC

existentialpanda wrote:I'm pleased to report that I fucking did it :D :D :D

Yay \o/

Still probably have to tell my parents

Good luck!

I'm off to grad school to go play with viruses, because viruses are awesome :D :D :D

Electronic viruses or biological viruses?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby existential_squirrrel » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:58 pm UTC

hi there all! (*waves to thread*)

I am pleased to note that I got sir'ed twice today at work, in front of my manager, and she and I both said "Thanks, I appreciate that". my manager didn't bat an eye at all, nor did she look at me sideways, question me, or yell. I am happy

on an un-related, but still somehow related note... I'm going to *buck up* and ask my GP about seeing an endocrinologist to start on T. o.o o.0 O.O
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:44 pm UTC

Hi lovely queer internet friends,

I need your advice, because I'm nearly having a panic attack (probably over nothing or not much):

I'm about to write this e-mail to most of the colleagues I know (well those who have never made a homophobic or transphobic statement):

"Most of you don’t even know that I’m bi (well now you do), but it would mean a lot to me personally if as many of you as possible would participate in this video initiative: <link>Calling All Supporters of the LGBT Community</link>"

The link is to a company-internal video initiative by the diversity department, calling LGBT allies to make 30-second videos stating support for LGBT colleagues.

This e-mail would out me to them, only one of the recipients already knows I'm bi.

At first I wrote the e-mail like this, and I'm still not sure which version is better, and maybe I'm overthinking it, but so far I'm unable to send the mail:

"It would mean a lot to me if as many of you as possible would participate in this video initiative: <link>Calling All Supporters of the LGBT Community</link>"

It leaves ambiguity. Even gay and lesbian colleagues who know that I'm married to a man and who have met me through the internal LGBT network have still assumed I'm straight (bisexuality evidently doesn't exist). So cis straight people are even more likely to continue believing it in spite of any evidence to the contrary - I could just be a cis straight ally suggesting others participate in this video activity, too.

So that's why I added the no-room-for-interpretations statement that I'm bi. But that feels not quite right, either. Too much "in your face", maybe? But on the other hand, what could be wrong about that ... . I can't decide which version to send out. What would you do?

And then there is this: One of the (German) comments on the internal article is "I don't agree with genderism bla bla traditional family values bla bla" ... you get the idea (I don't know what he means with genderism, but it's probably a horrible transphobic, homophobic and/or sexist concept). And the rating of this comment is 3.2/5 at around 30 voters, meaning around 17 must have given it 5 stars, assuming all others clicked the minimum 1 star. (And that's just the German version of the article - the English version, which might be read world-wide, doesn't have comments, yet.) Oh me yarm, where am I working? Do I want to be out in a place where apparently dozens of homophobes and transphobes roam the hallways? It's hard to tell how many/which percentage, the company has 60k employees, around 12k in Germany, many don't read the news in the portal, much less the comments, even less click vote on them. But I venture a guess that 18 homophobes/transphobes is not the upper limit.
I called the guy's opinion/comment disgusting, and now I got the first reply of someone calling for tolerance of other opinions. I want to throw up.

At first I only selected mail recipients from my former team. I didn't even really notice. Then suddenly it dawned on me that I again avoid coming out to the people I actually work with (only one woman from my former team and one from my current team know I'm bi). So I added my current team. Now I'm crying. Even though probably nothing seriously bad will happen. Now I'm breaking my head if it would be better just to add younger colleagues and remove older ones, as younger ones are less likely to be homophobes. But there is no guarantee either way. And being half-out can cause even more problems, rumors.
What if a colleague replies with an e-mail that they wouldn't touch a pro-LGBT campaign with a stick? Well at least I'd know they are a terrible person and I should avoid them if possible.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:31 pm UTC

This post had objectionable content.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:46 pm UTC

According to Wikipedia "Genderism is the cultural belief that gender is a binary, or that there are, or should be, only two genders — man and woman — and that the aspects of one's gender are inherently linked to the sex in which they were assigned at birth" and "much like how transphobia is parallel to homophobia, genderism is said to be parallel to heterosexism". So if that person is saying they don't believe in genderism then that sounds like an expression of support for LGBT people. But maybe it means something different in German or that person is just using the word wrong or something.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:52 pm UTC

He must be using it wrong then. He was much opposed to the video campaign and demanded a video campaign by the company for the support of traditional families with a mother and a father. Or when he said he doesn't believe in genderism he meant he thinks it doesn't exist and cisphobia and heterosexism aren't real.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:13 pm UTC

Ah yeah, the distinction between 'belief' as 'support' and 'belief' as, well... belief. (I had a strange conversation with my grandmother when I was young, trying to figure out if her branch of Christianity thought that there was a literal, real, Satan or not. I asked her if she 'believes in the devil' or something like that, and she profusely professed how she does not. So I confirmed, "so you think the devil's just like a metaphor or symbol for..." something like that, and she professed just as profusely that he's a real literal actual being actually doing stuff. So I confirmed again, 'so you do believe in the devil then', only to start the loop over again with her avid avowal that she does not...).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:37 pm UTC

Thursday was a holiday and Friday most people took vacation. I got one response e-mail so far - I used the version where I don't start with stating that I'm bi. The response was "What does LGBT stand for?" (No, Google and other search engines are not blocked on the company intranet.) So I told her. Then I got back "And why would it mean a lot to you????" Yes, with four question marks. Apparently it's quite unthinkable that a woman married to a man could be anything other than heterosexual. I wrote back that I'm bi and asked why the four question marks. She e-mailed back "Ah well, I didn't know that." Could have been worse, I guess. Even though I'm not exactly happy with it.


Completely different thing: The German Pirate Party, of which I am a member, sells stuff in its shop, including stickers, and now since recently this one http://shop.piratenpartei.de/index.php? ... uct_id=120 - Snowwhite with a gun, saying fight sexism and homophobia. The Pirate Party has a terrible track record regarding sexismy<->feminism (most members are men), but is very good about homophobia, transphobia, whorephobia, discrimination of intersex people and polyamory. Anyway, because it for once also mentions sexism I was pretty happy to see it in the shop. Well this morning someone tweeted "The Pirate Party is terrible, they want gun violence against people who are afraid of gay people". I unfollowed them, but it still screwed up my day.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Azrael001 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:26 pm UTC

Wonderbolt wrote:Now on HRT for two weeks, and I'm actually capable of feeling things. I'm still having a bit of a hard time dealing with the mood swings and the confusion caused by all these changes, but overall I genuinely feel much healthier, psychologically. That feeling in the background that there's something-but-I-don't-know-what wrong has disappeared, which is really nice.
It's a few months late, but this is almost verbatim how I felt after the first few weeks of HRT.

Operation Boy-mode fail (in which I wait for HRT to do it's thing before social transition because society is terrible to visibly trans people, and I'm afraid of getting laughed at), has started to succeed after much longer than originally hoped (though there were quite a few instances of boy-mode failing earlier, it's failing more often and more frequently now). Apparently my face has feminized a lot more than what I can tell, which, as far as my reading has told me, is pretty normal. After almost three years of HRT, I think I'm within months of going full time.

Family crap is slightly less crap. More lucrative job in blue collar environment sucks, as I left my carefully built support network for money and what was supposed to be a family based network. My brother having his own health related instability once again left me treading water, which lead to my own despair related crisis and a depressive episode unblunted by the apathy and numbness that protected me pre-hrt (having feelings can sometimes be a mixed blessing). Talking to people after that helped, but it's shown once again that my family seems to be standing in a river in Egypt.
23111

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:51 am UTC

Azrael001 wrote:Operation Boy-mode fail (in which I wait for HRT to do it's thing before social transition because society is terrible to visibly trans people, and I'm afraid of getting laughed at), has started to succeed after much longer than originally hoped (though there were quite a few instances of boy-mode failing earlier, it's failing more often and more frequently now). Apparently my face has feminized a lot more than what I can tell, which, as far as my reading has told me, is pretty normal. After almost three years of HRT, I think I'm within months of going full time.

Heh, that's more or less what I did, except I happened to quit my job (therefore changing my clothing) and move six months in and just kind of... everything switched then.

And for what it's worth, being unable to read gender cues properly in yourself is definitely something I've seen in myself and others. The last time a stranger misgendered me was almost a year ago - it's taken quite some time for me to see what everyone else has been.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:31 am UTC

Can confirm. I'm now two and half months in, and according to my friends I went from looking like a regular guy to looking like a very stereotypically-gay dude.

I honestly can't see it when I look in the mirror.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:31 am UTC

It can be hard to notice changes in yourself, since you see yourself in a mirror relatively frequently and thus incremental changes are harder to see.

For someone who sees you infrequently, gradual changes can be easier to notice.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:20 pm UTC

That too - I hardly feel too different in the mirror, but then I look at older photos and can't even recognize them.

Older includes up to like a year ago, even.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:30 am UTC

I've always hated pictures of myself, and avoided them whenever possible. I've got like a year gap between some of my most recent photos.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:36 pm UTC

Spoiler:
2.5 month HRT pics.

I know, I know, I should smile more. Also, the lighting makes my beard less visible and my skin nicer than they actually should be. I don't really have any pre-HRT pics, but I can honestly say that mostly cleared up skin + much less beard shadow = much happier about face. Now I'm just considering whether I should (as in, whether I want it enough, not whether I need to) get rhinoplasty.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NecklaceOfShadow » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:56 pm UTC

Wonderbolt wrote:
Spoiler:
2.5 month HRT pics.

I know, I know, I should smile more. Also, the lighting makes my beard less visible and my skin nicer than they actually should be. I don't really have any pre-HRT pics, but I can honestly say that mostly cleared up skin + much less beard shadow = much happier about face. Now I'm just considering whether I should (as in, whether I want it enough, not whether I need to) get rhinoplasty.

Spoiler'd because you spoiled yours.
Spoiler:
As I've said on IRC, I think you look wonderful, dear. It's awesome that you're feeling better about body-things. As to the rhinoplasty, it's really up to what you're most comfortable with. We trust you can make a decision that's right for you.
Significantly less weird than I used to be. Still pretty weird.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:47 pm UTC

NecklaceOfShadow wrote:Spoiler'd because you spoiled yours.
Spoiler:
As I've said on IRC, I think you look wonderful, dear. It's awesome that you're feeling better about body-things. As to the rhinoplasty, it's really up to what you're most comfortable with. We trust you can make a decision that's right for you.

I suppose I didn't really need to use a spoiler. Although I can't always see my progress, I guess the fact that I feel less terrible about posting some pics is probably an encouraging sign.

I'm not really sure about the rhinoplasty yet. On the one hand, I doubt I need it for passing or anything, so it might make sense to just save some money so I don't need to borrow any a bunch of years in the future. On the other hand, I'm planning on going full time by September (if I can hide my beard shadow by then...) and I kind of really just want to not have to be self-conscious about it at that point.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure I'm getting it anyway, but I don't yet know when or how is most practical.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:50 pm UTC

You look pretty :)

Of course you can do with your nose whatever you want, but maybe you like this girl-nose-self-acceptance post anyway: http://drain-seeker.tumblr.com/post/715 ... acceptance
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:48 am UTC

Boring whining:
Spoiler:
I still don't know what I want to do with myself. I am afraid that I am wasting my youth by not taking steps towards transitioning, but I don't know if I even want to. I have a good job like thing, and this last year of college should go well, but I haven't had a romantic partner since freshman year and am super lonely. I have know I have something off with my gender for like four years, yet I haven't put in the effort to learn voice things or makeup things or anything.
Angst. :(

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:48 pm UTC

Spoilered for pathetic whining:
Spoiler:
I can't stop crying. I know I'll never pass. My partner (who is now several hundred kilometres away) likes dancing, and today I was imagining going to a ballroom dancing class to learn for them. And then I thought no one would want to dance with me to learn the girl part, because to them I'm just a guy pretending to be a girl. Meanwhile, the rest of my life is falling apart and I'm a disappointment to everyone and there's nothing I can do to stop it. I love my family so much and I know to them I'll always be the one with so much potential that failed to reach it. And even with that I can barely motivate myself to get out of bed in the morning to do anything, everything I used to love is dry and boring.

I wish I had never existed so I couldn't hurt anyone. Long after I stopped believing in God I would pray to him to make me a girl, ending every night by whispering 'kyrie, eleison'. After a while I prayed to any god, and after that any being strong enough to grant my wish, promising them anything. And then I just begged to let me have control of my dreams, so that if I couldn't live while awake I could do so asleep. And now I'm stuck. Magic doesn't exist, medicine won't work. No matter what, I'm going to be a disappointment to everyone, especially me. I couldn't even stop crying while typing this.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Brace » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:31 pm UTC

This post had objectionable content.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PolakoVoador » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:29 pm UTC

*hugs for rath358 and Natashatasha*

Neither of you is boring or pathetic *more hugs*

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:36 pm UTC

*hugs rath358* You're not boring!It's a difficult/scary situation to be in.
How hard would it be to access hormones where you live? Maybe you can try them for a while and see how it makes you feel?
You could do voice practice online, there are some voice practice Google hangouts. For make-up there are videos on Youtube. So you could work on these things without having to involve people in real life, if that's what's keeping you off doing them. Good luck!


*hugs Natasha* You're not pathetic! Why are you convinced you will never pass? You have been on HRT for about a year, right? It doesn't seem to be unusual to take 2 years or sometimes 3 (or longer) to be read as female all of the time. So you should wait and see what happens. However, it might be true that you will never be read as a cis woman by all or most people. Still, you will be read as a woman, and people who are not totally transphobic will treat you as such. So it's still a big improvement, right? Transphobia is slowly going down, trans people get more and more positive representation in newspapers and on TV, so fewer and fewer people will perceive you as "pretending to be a woman". Also, if you are still unhappy with how you look after some time, or it makes you feel unsafe, maybe you can save up money and get facial feminization surgery.


Unrelated: Does someone from the Bay Area have a strong enough needle and thread and thimble for leather for this trans woman? https://twitter.com/NadiaYChambers/stat ... 7664976898
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby JudeMorrigan » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:25 pm UTC

@natasha - First off, hugs for your pain. A small, third-hand, for-what-it's-worth on the ballroom dancing thing: I'm a competitive ballroom dancer myself. My instructor is a fairly high-end pro dancer. I know that her partner works with trans girls and that it's apparently something that a lot of individuals find to be quite helpful. If it's something your interested in learning, either for yourself or your significant other, it's perfectly routine to work one-on-one with an instructor. To be honest, it's practically manditory if one wants to become a good dancer. Of course, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do group classes and go to the practice parties as well if you decided you wanted to, but I understand how intimidating that could be.

Oh, and I'd totally dance with you.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Azrael001 » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:47 pm UTC

natashatasha wrote:Spoilered for pathetic whining:
Spoiler:
I wish I had never existed so I couldn't hurt anyone. Long after I stopped believing in God I would pray to him to make me a girl, ending every night by whispering 'kyrie, eleison'. After a while I prayed to any god, and after that any being strong enough to grant my wish, promising them anything. And then I just begged to let me have control of my dreams, so that if I couldn't live while awake I could do so asleep. And now I'm stuck. Magic doesn't exist, medicine won't work. No matter what, I'm going to be a disappointment to everyone, especially me. I couldn't even stop crying while typing this.

Minus the crying, I did this pretty much every night from the time I was 13 until HRT started doing it's thing around the age of 24.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:52 pm UTC

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my sexuality lately (probably because it looks like there might actually be a chance for me to express said sexuality for once). I've discovered (with the help of this kickass article on cross-orientation sexuality that I'm a pretty much a panromantic bi-curious heterosexual (I've just discovered that my romantic orientation isn't even in firefox's dictionary). I also think I'm in theory polyamorous (in that I see no wrong in it, and it would be a bit difficult to explore my orientation fully without being poly).

I've recently realised that romantic and sexual attraction are sometimes two entirely separate things for me, and are quite often elicited by different people. Gender plays no part in my romantic attraction, male, female, both, neither - it makes no difference (although I had been suppressing my romantic attraction to guys, because I wasn't sexually attracted to them). Romantic attraction for me is to do with a person's mind, not their body (although I think non-sexual physical contact such as holding hands, snuggling or even kissing would be massively important for me in such a relationship - because it has such profound emotional content).

As for sexual attraction, it's about 90% female, but there are a some men I'm sexually attracted to and I'd like to explore that someday. I'm becoming more receptive to the idea of homosexual relationships as time goes on, so I'm wondering how much of my heterosexuality is cultural conditioning.

This is a rather tame sort of coming out as coming-outs go but there it is (it's tame mainly because I could still be happy in a heterosexual monogamous relationship, which is a bit of a safety net as far as societal acceptance goes)*. I do have a few questions, so if any of you wonderful people have any thoughts on the following I would be grateful:

1) Are there any good dating sites for finding non-sexual romantic relationships? I'd really like to see what one is like - I find that sex complicates romance for me, a purely romantic relationship sounds like it could be a wonderful thing.

2) For any romantic asexuals following this thread - are you likely to be freaked out be someone who is sexually attracted to your gender in general, but not to you in particular, would you consider a romantic non-sexual relationship with that person?

3) What happens if I am in a non-sexual romantic relationship and I become sexually attracted to the other person over time? It strikes me that could be very painful for all involved.

* Given my (lack of) dating history I am also reminded of Alan Bennett's answer when asked by Sir Ian McKellen if he was gay or straight: "That's a bit like asking a man crawling across the Sahara whether he would prefer Perrier or Malvern water."

Edit: Now I'm reading about the difference between sensual and romantic attraction, and I guess I can put myself down as pansensual too - this human relationship stuff sure is complicated. I'm rapidly coming to the point of just saying I'm queer: I'm attracted to different people in lots of different ways and it doesn't all fit within a nice neat little box.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:06 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:2) For any romantic asexuals following this thread - are you likely to be freaked out be someone who is sexually attracted to your gender in general, but not to you in particular, would you consider a romantic non-sexual relationship with that person?

For me, it would be a lot to think about. "You like girls but not me in that way, but you do like me in this other way? I need some time to feel a bit strange about this, then I'll get back to you."

Nothing wrong with it in general. Attraction is as attraction does. If I found myself romantically attracted to this person, I would probably end up giving it a go.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:23 am UTC

Quercus wrote:3) What happens if I am in a non-sexual romantic relationship and I become sexually attracted to the other person over time? It strikes me that could be very painful for all involved.

This is a general complication in ace dating. Demisexual people (people who don't feel primary sexual attraction, i.e. they don't look at people and get thoughts of "it would be nice to have sex with this person", but secondary attraction, i.e. when they are in a romantic relationship with someone for a while they develop sexual attraction to them) who have never been in a relationship before often don't know that they are demi and think they are "completely ace" (not sure if there is a specific term for non-demi-non-gray asexual). If the other person in the relationship is actually "completely asexual" that can be quite difficult. But your situation with being panromantic, pansensual and mostly heterosexual isn't really more complicated than others :) .

In terms of complication, I'm romantically attracted to all genders, sexually mostly to women, but sex with other people in general is not very important to me. And I'm married to a allosexual (= non-asexual) man (and in a secondary relationship with a woman). You will find ways to work things out, too.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:59 am UTC

Monika wrote:
Quercus wrote:3) What happens if I am in a non-sexual romantic relationship and I become sexually attracted to the other person over time? It strikes me that could be very painful for all involved.

This is a general complication in ace dating. Demisexual people (people who don't feel primary sexual attraction, i.e. they don't look at people and get thoughts of "it would be nice to have sex with this person", but secondary attraction, i.e. when they are in a romantic relationship with someone for a while they develop sexual attraction to them) who have never been in a relationship before often don't know that they are demi and think they are "completely ace" (not sure if there is a specific term for non-demi-non-gray asexual). If the other person in the relationship is actually "completely asexual" that can be quite difficult. But your situation with being panromantic, pansensual and mostly heterosexual isn't really more complicated than others :) .

In terms of complication, I'm romantically attracted to all genders, sexually mostly to women, but sex with other people in general is not very important to me. And I'm married to a allosexual (= non-asexual) man (and in a secondary relationship with a woman). You will find ways to work things out, too.


Thanks Monika. It's great to hear from people who've found a relationship structure that works for them. :D *high five*

poxic wrote:
Quercus wrote:2) For any romantic asexuals following this thread - are you likely to be freaked out be someone who is sexually attracted to your gender in general, but not to you in particular, would you consider a romantic non-sexual relationship with that person?

For me, it would be a lot to think about. "You like girls but not me in that way, but you do like me in this other way? I need some time to feel a bit strange about this, then I'll get back to you."

Nothing wrong with it in general. Attraction is as attraction does. If I found myself romantically attracted to this person, I would probably end up giving it a go.


Thanks poxic. This hasn't really happened to me yet (mainly because I don't know any (out) aces except online), but it's probably the weirdest possibility (to me) of my orientation, and it's nice to know that if it does happen it won't just come across as really creepy.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:54 pm UTC

Im demisexual and bi and to answer a littl of your questions i think being poly or at least open is helpful. I consider muself poly even though i currently only have a male partner so to the world we look like a "typical couple" but thats pretty far from the truth and people who know us know more. Anyway, the way I see it, poly isnt just about sex its about allowing each relationship to meet its own what i call neutral point. That point where both individuald are comfortable and happy with the balance of the relationship - Whether that be no sex but romance and flirting or good friends or passing friends or sexual partner or whatever. I thibk if you want a nonsexual romantic relationship it coild be eaiser to find in the poly community. Another nice thing about poly is each relationship doesnt have to meet every need you have. Eg maybe one person you libe flirting and being around but sex just meh so you dont bother. But that person, or even you, have a sexual desire to fullfill you can find that in other people. This i think makes it a lot easier to be satisifed (for whatever values of satisfied are personally required) for all parties involved. Hope that makes sense?
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