[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:46 pm UTC

I'm now on 8mg oestradiol valerate and 50mg cyproterone acetate, should be seeing another doctor within the next month if I can get an appointment. He was hoping the oestrogen alone would be enough to suppress my T level since it started off so low (3.6 nmol/L).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:16 am UTC

Double-post for good news! Got the University to change my official name — I'm now 'Natasha Brianne Surname' — and just got my new student ID in my name!
*Does the happy dance*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:34 am UTC

Woo, good news!

Can anyone recommend an in depth resource on the effects of HRT? I know the basics from the internet, but something detailed would be nice. I am fine paying for an eBook or dead tree book.

Also, for those keeping track at home: I got on hrt about a month ago, but forgot to post it to the thread because finals

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:05 am UTC

rath358 wrote:Also, for those keeping track at home: I got on hrt about a month ago, but forgot to post it to the thread because finals


Yay, congratulations! I hope it's feeling nice for you ^_^
As for in-depth resources, I'm afraid I don't have any, but Wikipedia has quite detailed articles for FtM and MtF people (c. 5500 and 9000 words respectively).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:38 am UTC

Double post again! I just have a couple of things to say:

First, I am coming out to my grandparents and I need basically the opposite of rath358's request: I'm looking for educational resources that are concise for them. Most of the sources I've found are either too exhaustive (e.g. those Wikipedia links), too technical (huzzah for scientific literature) or just too patronising (you don't teach people by talking down to them). Does anyone have any handy links I can send?

Second thing is even more good news! After two months with another doctor helping (last time I posted was when I discovered how much my previous endo screwed up, not when they did so), my hormone levels are perfect! 1.1 nmol/L testosterone and 530 pmol/L oestradiol. And I even lost weight! I was so squee at the end of that appointment.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:15 am UTC

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby The Mighty Thesaurus » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:50 pm UTC

I told my sister I'm trans last week. She said she had known since we were little, and that she'll always love me.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:32 pm UTC

That's lovely <3
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:37 pm UTC

That's wonderful, I'm so glad that turned out well for you ^_^
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:49 pm UTC

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:I told my sister I'm trans last week. She said she had known since we were little, and that she'll always love me.


yay!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:51 am UTC

I got ma'am-ed in public for the first time today. It was nice not automatically being read as male (not that being read as female is right for me either, just less usual); what was less nice was the fact that when I turned around the waiter started apologising profusely for not sir-ing me.

Still taking this as a net win.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:52 am UTC

Fully out of closet now, came out to my Oma & Opa and they seem perfectly accepting! I got 'miss'd on the bus, and the driver didn't incorrect himself when I responded! I went shopping for new shoes, and the service staff at Athlete's Foot grabbed the women's measuring device and suggested women's shoes without hesitation! And I'm now sporting a 16DD (Aus, 38DD UK), which I also cheerfully exclaimed over at the women's thread! And tomorrow I'm submitting my legal change of name form! I'm metaphorically literally bouncing off the walls!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:01 am UTC

Metaphorical literal (and actual) hugs and squee. Woot!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby joek » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:49 pm UTC

NovaNatalia wrote:incorrect himself


This is an excellent verb. I should make note of this excellent verbing :)

Congratulations :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:25 pm UTC

I also like this verb a lot.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:05 am UTC

Slightly OT but amusing story: When I was 18 I had someone do something that I thought was (not that I'd have used that term then since I first heard it in this thread now) "incorrecting" themselves (also, not that I'd really care what pronouns anyone used for me these days anyway, not sure about back then), but it turned out to be something else I still don't quite understand. An old woman tapped me on the shoulder on the street and said "excuse me sir", and when I turned around she said "oh! I'm sorry!" like she had misspoke, and the first thing that came to mind was how when I was younger people would sometimes think me a girl, so my first thought was that she was thinking that too, except by 18 I was beginning to grow facial hair I so didn't get how there was any ambiguity to my appearance then (if anything I'd more expect to be thought female from behind because of the hair and then male as I turned around because of the mustache), and I just said "huh?" Her response: "I thought you were older". Apparently to her generation you don't "sir" young men.

(And she was just wondering if I had the time, was all).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Oraiste » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:27 am UTC

Hello, queer thread. I've been off vomiting trans anxiety in other safespace threads, so it seems ridiculous that I haven't introduced myself here yet.

Edit: Removed the rest of the post. It was stupid.
Last edited by Oraiste on Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:13 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:59 am UTC

Hi Oraiste! Feel welcome here.

So you're a trans man, did I get this right?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Oraiste » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:13 pm UTC

Nah, I'd call myself a confused woman. That label stings, but I'm too literal-minded to feel comfortable using anything else while I'm still figuring things out.

(To clarify, I'm biologically female and unhappy about it. Am I the only one? All the trans people I've noticed around here seem to be AMAB.)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:42 pm UTC

Oraiste wrote:That label stings, but I'm too literal-minded to feel comfortable using anything else while I'm still figuring things out.


I obviously can't say whether this would be right for you, but I just thought I'd point out that choosing not to use any label is also perfectly valid. And to reiterate Monika's words, Welcome!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:55 pm UTC

Yeah, no label is fine.

Or you could be genderqueer/non-binary: androgyne, agender/neutrois/genderless/genderneutral, bigender/multigender, genderfluid, pangender, multiple, demiboy, demigirl, ... . Some non-binary people modify their bodies with hormones or surgeries and some don't.

Or if you're a masculine/butch cis woman who experiences gender dysphoria that's fine, too.

So ... do whatever feels right? Modify your body or your hair or your clothes or your name ... or not. Whatever works. No matter if you fit into any category. Including trans.

One of the two Qs in the title is for questioning :) . Can be questioning one's sexual orientation or one's gender identity :) .
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:52 am UTC

Oraiste wrote:(To clarify, I'm biologically female and unhappy about it. Am I the only one? All the trans people I've noticed around here seem to be AMAB.)


Definitely not the only AFAB person in the thread, and there are definitely AFAB trans people in the thread. I'm not going to point at anyone in specific, though; I'll let people handle stating their own identities if they choose to do so.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wolby » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:44 pm UTC

Apparently I've never posted on this thread, though I've lurked on it for more than a year. Therefore I'm late to the party, afab, and the only labels I identify with right now are gender-questioning, butch, and bi/queer.

...And I'm a year and four days post top surgery!! :mrgreen:

(It'd be a happier year and four days if it wasn't also shark week, and my least favorite thing post-surgery is that my chest hasn't stopped hurting/swelling slightly 2-3 weeks out of the month. I haven't figured out what I want to do about it yet. :/ It doesn't seem to be a problem for most people who've had top surgery because most of them are also on T.)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:29 am UTC

Welcome to the thread! *waves*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby 12obin » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:56 am UTC

Oraiste wrote:Nah, I'd call myself a confused woman. That label stings, but I'm too literal-minded to feel comfortable using anything else while I'm still figuring things out.

(To clarify, I'm biologically female and unhappy about it. Am I the only one? All the trans people I've noticed around here seem to be AMAB.)


I'm dfab. (I use designated rather than assigned, because of reasons.) And nonbinary or genderqueer or what have you. Ft-nothing-in-particular. Except ftp. But that's another thread.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:51 am UTC

12obin wrote:I'm dfab. (I use designated rather than assigned, because of reasons.)

I'm curious to know the reasons, if you care to tell. (If you think it's inappropriate for a safe space you can PM me instead).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:49 am UTC

I'm AMAB and biologically female these days.

In unrelated news, sexuality is complicated, ugh. :/ The longer I'm on HRT, the more I just can't for the life of me figure out whether I'm actually attracted to women or just want their body (like literally, not in a sexual way :p), and whether I want to do naughty things with guys or am just thinking about this because of all the changes. I think I need to whine about this for a bit.

Attraction to women is an "I have no fucking clue" kind of thing these days. Because of lots of experiences with guys (not sexual), I guess I generally feel much safer with women, it's not like I mind the boobs or the softness or anything, and, I dunno, it's all weird. Guys I'm pretty sure I'm attracted to I guess, given where my fantasies go and everything. But I'm far too scared of guys from the experiences I've had to be comfy just trying stuff out, and admittedly there's a huge part of me that still just feels weird about the idea: not actually attracted or just the internalized idea that I shouldn't be attracted to guys because it's 'wrong'? No idea.

This is all kinda made worse by the fact that I'm in a relationship and just have no idea what I want from that either.

So, yeah, it's all complicated as fuck and if anyone has any advice figuring this out it would be much appreciated. :/

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby 12obin » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:39 pm UTC

@Wonderbolt

I struggle with some of tgis, and for me the best thing is to not think of sexual orientation as such an identity thing. For me, queer is an identity thing, and I know I'm queer because I'm not a boy or a girl so nothing is the "opposite" gender to me, but being attracted to particular genders and bodies isn't an identity. I have sex with people when I want to and they also want to? I fantasize about things and people that I wouldn't necessarily want in reality. I don't really like porn, but lots of people watch porn that's very different from what they like to actually do (e.g. a lot of lesbians watch gay porn about men). It doesn't all have to be on the same track.

And wanting people who make you feel safe and comfortable is just as valid as wanting people who you find hot. Just try not to mislead anybody about how you feel for them.

@Pfhorrest

It's because of a thing I read once that I don't know anymore if it was true, is the thing. I switched to using that terminology and then I learned that the source was doubtful so I'm not trying to sell anybody else on it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wonderbolt » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:55 pm UTC

12obin wrote:And wanting people who make you feel safe and comfortable is just as valid as wanting people who you find hot. Just try not to mislead anybody about how you feel for them.

But that's kind of the thing. I guess I'm worried that by being in relationships with girls I'm stopping myself from figuring out I'm actually mainly attracted to guys, or something like that. I dunno, my current relationships are going pretty well, so I'm probably just worrying about nothing. Identity is just hard. :/

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:25 pm UTC

Does anyone have any advice on trying out neutral pronouns? I"m bi/pan, AFAB and I guess mostly identify as female (except I hate internal plumbing, and getting that fixed soon, yay!) and although I don't really have a label I guess demigirl works pretty well and I heard about it from suggestion of some of you in past. I'm okay with being gendered female by default (I love my boobs and hair, in general have no desire to change my look other than continue building muscle especially core, and so society will always default me to female) but there is a decent percentage of the time I wish I could be more neutral gendered. Is that weird to not "care enough" to want it all the time, but want some area to see if it feels like it fits well because I suspect I'd like it "better" than female pronouns?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:06 am UTC

I don't have much practical advice in answer to your main question, but I don't think it's weird to not "care enough". I'm male and pangendered/genderfluid and don't at all mind people thinking of and addressing me as male most of the time — if I saw me in the third person I would assume that too — but also would really love to be able to pass as female whenever I felt like it (and, on the rare occasions I've risked going out in public presenting as female, have been very pleasantly surprised when e.g. random waitstaff address me as female), or better still to have people not quite sure / see me as some neutral gender / etc. I have no idea how to actually pull off the latter, mostly just because we don't have in common English the words with which to speak of people in such a way naturally, but it would be nice.

So I totally empathize with the way it sounds like you feel about it, and I think there are more of us out there than we probably suspect. I think maybe being fine with being addressed by our birth sex most of the time makes us kind of invisible compared to other gender-variant folk. Something like bisexual erasure, or maybe more like the "bi the way" trope, but with regard to gender rather than orientation.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:11 am UTC

That's not far from how I gender myself (or don't). I'm mostly mostly agender, but being femaled is acceptable. (Demigirl is a decent word. I should remember it.)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:41 am UTC

Sungura wrote:Does anyone have any advice on trying out neutral pronouns? I"m bi/pan, AFAB and I guess mostly identify as female (except I hate internal plumbing, and getting that fixed soon, yay!) and although I don't really have a label I guess demigirl works pretty well and I heard about it from suggestion of some of you in past. I'm okay with being gendered female by default (I love my boobs and hair, in general have no desire to change my look other than continue building muscle especially core, and so society will always default me to female) but there is a decent percentage of the time I wish I could be more neutral gendered. Is that weird to not "care enough" to want it all the time, but want some area to see if it feels like it fits well because I suspect I'd like it "better" than female pronouns?


When I first came out it was to a small group of friends. I asked them to start using "they" pronouns for me, but not around people who I hadn't come out to. I also made it clear that, at that stage, I wasn't really sure what I was and that pretty much everything was subject to change. Something like that may be suitable for you.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Killerofsheep » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:33 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:snip.

This is almost excactly how I feel. I always describe myself as apathetically bigendered. As in if I could be bothered I would be bigendered. Or, I am bigendered but identify as cis. Does that even make any sense? I'm not really sure how to word it.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby rath358 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:56 pm UTC

Fuck. Fuuuuuuuck.
My mother just observed one of my grandparents (who I am not yet out to) being casually transphobic. This will be an awkward graduation...

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:00 am UTC

:-( *hugs* if wanted
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby mosgi » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:22 pm UTC

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:22 pm UTC

I'm not sure that this is entirely the right thread, as I think it probably has more to do with gender expression than gender identity. However, I guess most of the experts on gender are going to be in this thread, so here goes.

Just for clarity, I'm cis, male (AFAIK) and probably bi/pan*.

This pronoun discussion has got me thinking - and I'm realising that I'm becoming increasingly drawn to trying out "traditionally feminine" things, not really because they are feminine, but because I think they are aesthetically pleasing and I'm starting to question more and more gender boundaries. I'm thinking of things like painting nails bright colours and hair accessories. I'm going to be coupling these with some pretty strong male signifiers (mainly my beard, which I love).

I guess my first question is - any suggestions of stuff I could try? I realise that gender signifiers are unfortunately pretty well engrained in most people's judgement of aesthetics, so I'm looking for things that will look somewhat harmonious on a 6ft bearded guy with features that tend towards "rugged", rather than look like a guy trying out "girl stuff" for a joke. I'm thinking that things that are fairly bold and colourful would be best from that perspective, like blue, green or purple nail polish, or a big sunflower in my hair.

I'm also a bit confused about whether this desire to mix-and-match male and female signifiers is an indication that I'm questioning my gender identity or just questioning the role of gender signifiers in society. I'm entirely happy with my male biology (but I'd probably also be entirely happy with female biology - it's more a case of "this is what I have" rather than "this is what I am"). Beyond that I'm not particularly interested in being seen as "male" in a social sense, although it doesn't bother me if I'm gendered as male by other people (I'm also entirely aware that I can't just "opt out" of male privilege). Does anyone have any good advice/reading on the subject of gender identity vs. gender expression?

Finally, on the pronoun issue, so as to not bring the topic to an abrupt halt, I think I'd mildly prefer neutral pronouns because I feel that in pretty much every non-sexual interaction gender simply shouldn't be relevant, but then again that I recognise that gender is relevant in current society, and I run in to issues of "opting out" of privilege again and wonder if I'm being a jerk. To be honest I think it would be better if pronouns simply weren't gendered at all, but that isn't going to happen.


*I'd say I'm a 2 on the Kinsey scale - there are significantly more women I'm attracted to than men, but I'm definitely attracted to some men, my attraction to non-binary people is obviously entirely individual. I'm also pretty firmly panromantic.

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Quercus
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:22 pm UTC

Apologies for double-posting, but it's clearer that way. I've just come up with a pretty good analogy for my current thoughts on my gender identity.

If someone says they are an "Audi driver" that could mean one of two things in the extreme cases:

  1. They strongly prefer to drive Audi's over any other car.
  2. They happen to own an Audi, but another car would suit them just as well.

When I say "I'm male" I'm pretty much using that in sense "2". Is there a word for that? Something like gender-apathetic maybe? It sounds pretty similar to what Killerofsheep is expressing.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:18 am UTC

Bi erasure...not heard that term. I take it to mean kinda the exclusion because of not having a hard set of preference? For example: my mom knows I am bi, but when I told her my SO is male, all of a sudden "i'm not bi anymore". I prefer pan, because really I am attracted on a very individual level that seems to have little to nothing to do with how people identify, but most people don't know what pan means. I am potentially starting (in beginning stages) a relationship with a girlfriend so I am SOOO tempted later this year when my family has a reunion to just bring them both. Because I'm tired of not being accepted - much less seen - for who I am. May as well just blow their minds all at once, right?

Anyway, it is helpful to know others don't really have strong feelings for their assigned sex and would be fine with other pronouns but not so strongly they wish to fully switch or even want to. Part of my trouble with wanting to try gender-neutral is that there are so many sets of those pronouns in the English language and I can't figure out which I like or don't like - I really wouldn't care which so long as it was neutral. Plus I have a hard time keeping the sets straight in my head, I seem to mix them up because I read them as pronounced the same even if spelled differently (Ze, Zie, and Xe, for example, all sound same to me just spelled different, but I am very mental - I see words and objects and things in my brain as I speak about them, and so I'm working off of mental pictures all the time, so them being different but sounding the same confuses things for my brain). I still don't know what to do about it though. I like ties. Maybe I should start wearing the couple I have but I need some collared shirts for that. Maybe I should get some. But fitted shirts of hell of hard to find to fit me right and would probably take custom tailoring - so again....it falls back to not worth the trouble.
"Would you rather fight a Sungura-sized spider or 1000 spider-sized Sunguras?" -Zarq
she/<any gender neutral>/snug


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