[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby journey » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:03 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
journey wrote:Went hunting through the links on the everydayfeminism blog and discovered the term 'demigirl', which has a really nice ring to it. However its definition seems quite a stretch to apply to me. Bother.

Really? It seems that it could potentially fit very well given the definition here.

Hmm...i t kinda fits. Sort of. I'd worry that I'd be approrpiating it though, because I was drawn to it on account of liking the word. I dunno. Will play around with it and see if it sticks. Also splendid work with the hair flower :D . Glad folks responded so well!

Re: radiolab interview, that's really neat! It looks like it's about an hour long though, so will probably have to wait until the weekend before I can listen to it, but am quite interested to hear how it went.

Shivahn wrote:Another reason to do this is that the labels are kinda vague kludges we use to get across complicated ideas. But, while it's important in language to get an idea across, being yourself doesn't require abstraction. You are what you feel. Try to be true to that, rather than trying to find out what that is.

Yeah, I hear you. I guess I'm not too hung up on the label as such. More as a tool to use to find other folks who've had similar experiences, in the hope that it might give me more of an idea of what's going on (accounting for individual variation, naturally).

Pfhorrest wrote:Another bi(actually pan)gendered/genderfluid person here saying welcome to journey.

Hullo! :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:39 pm UTC

I love the term demigirl and I use it to describe myself :) I would love to try gender neutral pronouns but I will always be gendered female so long as I have my boobs (which I love). I have many "masculine" qualities and never felt fully female it's more an "I look female because boobs". I don't have any dysphoria about it but I don't consider myself "a woman" either. (And I did have major issues with my internal baby making bits and finally have had a hysterectomy to solve that and feel MUCH better mentally for it) So to me demigirl is a nice features from both but is okay with being gendered female thing. Ymmv this is just what it means to me :) I've also used the term gender nonconforming.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Wolby » Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:42 pm UTC

CelticNot wrote:I went 35 years thinking I was a straight guy with a few not-uncommon fetishes, so I know what you mean. It's normal to doubt and question - especially at this point. The discouraging thing for me is that it sounds like the doubts don't always go away - that some transfolk still experience those doubts years after transitioning.

But yes - gender is damn complicated. A lot more so than it looks from the outside. {EDIT: Removed a line that, after thinking about it, was a tad insulting to certain demographics. Mea culpa.}

There's a really cool zine just read called Egg Mode (http://eggmodezine.tumblr.com/) which is all pieces by trans women about the weird kinks/fetishes they were into before they were out to themselves. It's available for pay-what-you-want online.


Quercus, you are so attractive I can't even. Great outfit! Skirts with boots 5ever.

Quercus wrote:I get that gender expression is not the main thing this is about, and that any form of expression should be open to anyone of any gender, but part of what experiencing gender fluidity has made me realise is that gendered clothing norms are weird, and restrictive, and people should wear whatever makes them feel good (so long as they feel safe doing so*).

*The fact that I have to write that caveat makes me want to cry.

I know we want to divorce gender expression from gender identity, but that shouldn't mean that we're now "politically incorrect" if we change our gender expression when we shift how we understand our gender identities. Because fuck that! Smacks way too much of that shitty TERF idea
Spoiler:
that in a perfect world trans people wouldn't exist and no one would need (or want) to change names or pronouns or wear different clothes or have surgery. Because obviously preventing trans people from transitioning is the main goal of gender abolition. /sarcasm

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:29 pm UTC

Wolby wrote:Quercus, you are so attractive I can't even. Great outfit! Skirts with boots 5ever.

Ah, no - that's not me! (I wish I was that attractive!). That's just a picture I saw online and saved because it encapsulates exactly where I want to go with my gender expression.

Quercus wrote:I get that gender expression is not the main thing this is about, and that any form of expression should be open to anyone of any gender, but part of what experiencing gender fluidity has made me realise is that gendered clothing norms are weird, and restrictive, and people should wear whatever makes them feel good (so long as they feel safe doing so*).

*The fact that I have to write that caveat makes me want to cry.

I know we want to divorce gender expression from gender identity, but that shouldn't mean that we're now "politically incorrect" if we change our gender expression when we shift how we understand our gender identities. Because fuck that! Smacks way too much of that shitty TERF idea
Spoiler:
that in a perfect world trans people wouldn't exist and no one would need (or want) to change names or pronouns or wear different clothes or have surgery. Because obviously preventing trans people from transitioning is the main goal of gender abolition. /sarcasm

Oh absolutely. The point that I was getting at is that gender expression is often associated with gender identity, and that's fine, but it sometimes isn't, and that's fine too.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:48 pm UTC

Coming up on six weeks on full HRT. Though I'm starting to think that the spiro (which I started back in early January) is jump-starting the development process - I've been getting changes that I shouldn't be getting for another four or five months.

Which brings me to the question of bras. Do any MtFs in here have experience buying these early on in transition? I'm a little discouraged because it seems like I have incompatible requirements. Also, for those who may be in both threads, is it impolitic of me to ask questions about this in the All Things Women thread? I don't know how (un)welcome I may be there...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby PAstrychef » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:09 pm UTC

Questions about bras are always welcome in the women thread.
I would recommend getting a sports-type bra for the time being. They hold everything in place, which helps you adjust, and they have more stretch than many other bras so you can keeping using them longer. Also, they don't have underwires, which you probably don't need. If your chest measurement is big enough you might want to check out Lane Bryant because they cater to larger people.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:52 pm UTC

A sports bra would be ideal; I'm currently making do with bandeaus. The issue is my band size; thanks in large measure to my rib cage (I don't have a lot of spare flesh at that level), my band size is 52 (inches, I think). While you can find bras that large online, they rarely go below a B cup, and I'm... not even close yet. Plus, I have a bit of a complex about using inserts - I really don't want them.

I posted in the All Thing Women thread as well, thanks for the reassurance. :)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:55 pm UTC

Spiro can definitely jump start the process, and I've heard of doctors who don't prescribe estrogen until the person's been on spiro for a month or so (I can't recall exactly why, but I think it had to do with physiology, rather than gatekeeping).

As for bras I don't have suggestions cuz I didn't until pretty late in transition, but I will say that whatever you get, make sure it's... gentle enough for you. I recall the start of transition where I basically died if anything pressed against me.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby frakitol » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:20 pm UTC

Hi all. I tentatively introduced myself here last December. Questioning MTF, laid out in some detail in a thread in Dear SB ("Gender and body issues, and other things", findable in my post history). The relevant point today is that I've got a wicked dislike (slash almost phobic level of disgust) of my body hair, and want it gone no matter what I choose to do or not do as far as anything else transition-related goes.

I have a question for anyone who has done at-home laser hair removal. Do you have any recommendations for a device for body hair? I have pretty pale skin and dark androgenic hair, so most machines should work for me. I've done one treatment of shoulders, back, chest, and stomach with a borrowed Tria (not the 4x, the LHR 3.0) just to try it out. I was able to handle any pain without difficulty up through level 4 (didn't end up trying 5), so that part shouldn't be a problem. Ultimately, I'd like to be as completely hairless as possible on my back, shoulders and upper arm, chest, stomach, and upper and lower legs. I'm not horribly concerned about underarms at this point, because those are easy enough to shave, although I'd consider it. I'd also like to remove as much as possible from around genitals.

So far I've narrowed it down to I think two front runners. The Tria 4x seems to get the best reviews everywhere I've seen. On the other hand, the treatment head is really small. Each treatment is going to take forever, especially since it only lasts for about 40 minutes on a charge. It also has a finite life - 90,000 flashes, with no way to replace a cartridge to extend that. The Remington IPL6000 iLIGHT Pro Plus Quartz has a larger treatment, which would be good for legs and whatnot. The reviews aren't quite as good, and unlike the Tria, it does require replacement cartridges, although not until after some 30,000 flashes. It's also IPL, vs laser, so reviews are largely saying that it takes longer for results to show. The Silk'n Flash & Go and the Silk'n Bellalite are also both possibilities, but they'll also take longer to see results (http://www.beyondtalk.net/home-hair-removal/).

The other potential complication is that if I do start to transition, I'd obviously like to be able to start removing facial hair. The Tria and the Flash & Go can both do that, while the other two are less versatile.

Anyway, have any of you had experience with those models, or with any others you've had particular success with? Thanks :)

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:07 pm UTC

Kinda-crosspost from the All Things Women thread: I re-measured myself last week, and somehow I'm down to a 46" band, which is exactly the size of the two bras I'd already bought, but needed extenders for previously. C-cups, but they're not wired, so it's not like the looseness stands out. I'm wearing one now and I'm slowly getting used to the itchiness.

I may have to post on another subforum to better understand weight loss. I expected (or rather hoped) to lose weight from places where it was most concentrated, rather than all-over. I'm definitely losing SOMETHING even though my weight isn't dropping very fast, because not only did I drop six inches in band size (and two shoe sizes), but I'm getting stretch marks EVERYWHERE.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:21 am UTC

I posted some stuff in the Mental Health Thread about issues with sexuality and SRS/GRS, and was hoping some people from here would be able to give that a look; I don't want to repost here because it contains some fairly personal information and I don't want it to be publicly searchable.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:10 pm UTC

@ NovaNatalia - *big hugs*. I'm afraid I don't have any more practical advice to add to what people have posted in the other thread, but I didn't want to just say nothing, so *hugs*

____________________________________________________

I'm writing this because I need to vent* - people should feel free to respond if they want to (both advice and support are fine with me), but shouldn't feel that they have to (it's a pretty rambly wall of text if I'm honest - I just feel better somehow putting it somewhere vaguely public, rather than leaving it in my own journal). Spoilered for length and ramblyness:

Spoiler:
I'm apparently back to the stage of not knowing what my gender is again, which is just something that none of my socialisation has equipped me to deal with in the slightest. The thing is, I'm still me, I haven't really changed that much (other than in the sense that I'm gradually giving up the idea that I need to conform to social and presentational masculinity). And, personally, I'm more or less fine with not knowing my gender, the trouble is that society, even progressive society, expects you to know your gender, it expects you to always have known your gender:- even the most inclusive gender checklists tend not to have "don't know and don't really care" as an option.

I don't actually know how to tell what my gender is, or even if I have a gender at all:
  • For most of my life I just went along with classical "maleness", because that seemed to be the done thing, even though I had no particular attachment to it (and didn't really grok that anyone else did either). I'm actually pretty good at performing a lot of male gender roles, but I'm also pretty good at performing a lot of female gender roles as well, I'm just less practised at them. I know that gender roles are very distinct from gender identity, but that leads me to the next point:
  • I don't know how to tell what my gender identity is, except by reference to gender roles and presentation - I don't grok what an internal sense of gender is supposed to feel like, and I don't know whether that's because I'm just a somewhat feminine cis man (and therefore I don't notice my internal gender because It's not in conflict with my body configuration), or because I'm agender or demigender (I get flickers of what might be an internal sense of gender, but I have no way of really knowing if that's what it is).
  • I'd previously decided I was genderfluid - but now I reckon that was mainly down to feeling different amounts of masculinity and femininity (in a kind of situation and mood dependent presentation sort of way), rather than different amounts of maleness and femaleness; in the same way that I thought I was male when I was performing maleness for most of my life (because maleness was easy and expected, and I wasn't really paying attention to myself, so I just kind of stuck with maleness).
  • When I ask myself the kind of questions people propose to sort this sort of thing out I get really ambiguous answers e.g.
  • "Would you prefer to have been born with a typical female body?" - "no, I like my body and am glad I could experience having it; on the other hand, I can't see why having a typical female body would bother me, and it would be neat to have curves, and less body hair (except the beard, I would miss the beard), and have a greater choice of interesting and colourful clothing styles".
  • "If it were easy, free, and there were no medical consequences would you permanently switch to having a typical female body?" - "without a doubt, at some point - the increased diversity of experience would be amazing - say 30 years in my current body, then however long in a female body, it would be awesome; being able to switch at will would be even better though"
  • "If you had to switch to another typical male body, or to a typical female body, which would you prefer?" - "I don't know - depends on how much each body matches 'me' " - this is a tough one to explain, but it came fairly strongly as an immediate answer, so it seems I have some innate sense of "self" that is, as far as I can tell, independent of sexual dimorphism
  • I think what this boils down to is that criteria other than gender identity are more important for me in all these scenarios - which I guess points towards me being agender. Agender feels like a pretty strange fit for me though, because in most of what I've read it connotes a neutrality in terms of presentation as well (even though it shouldn't) - maybe I could say that I'm agender with a fluid presentation (that's mostly masculine of center, because that's easier and safer). That sounds wanky though - like I'm a cis man playing at being trans* (whoa for internalised transphobia there!)

Most of the time at the moment I feel like most people's gender is like a ping-pong ball that slots neatly into the appropriately labelled tube, whereas mine feels like a squishy blob that sits on top of the tubes, dripping into multiple ones but never entirely fitting in any of them (this is certainly painting other people's gender in a far too simplistic light, but it's how most mainstream discussion of trans* issues makes me feel).

And what makes me mad is that I don't see why it should matter, I don't see why people care. I can't think of a single situation (outside of possibly a dating website) where specifying gender matters in any way (to me). I get why it's important for other people - people who have a strong internal sense of gender, but I don't see anything wrong with my own gender being ambiguous, private, and complicated. It makes me feel like a "special snowflake" for putting it like this - everyone else just has a gender, why do I have to be awkward? (yay for internalised transphobia again) But then I think, "I don't know my gender, I don't really care which box it fits in, and don't see why anyone else should either " actually seems like a pretty down-to-earth way of doing things.

I guess I'm also fine with identifying as genderqueer as an umbrella term, but I think I'm going to stop identifying as genderfluid, because I suspect it's more my presentation/mood that's fluid, not my identity

*Because my ruminating on this stuff is taking up far too much of the time I should be using for polishing my thesis.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:37 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:I'm writing this because I need to vent* - people should feel free to respond if they want to (both advice and support are fine with me), but shouldn't feel that they have to (it's a pretty rambly wall of text if I'm honest - I just feel better somehow putting it somewhere vaguely public, rather than leaving it in my own journal). Spoilered for length and ramblyness:

A lot of what you write sounds like the kinds of thoughts and feelings that I have. I've more or less decided that agender, pangender, genderqueer, and genderfluid are all fine by me as ways of describing the non-cisgender aspects of me (the "I'm not especially attached to maleness or masculinity, but I don't mind it; and femaleness/femininity are nice too, but I don't especially need them"), and I'm still fine with male/masculine identity as sort of the default path of least resistance, and I'm kinda thrilled on the odd occasions where I pass as just straight female/feminine (I think because it indicates that maleness/masculinity doesn't have to define or confine me, I can go without it them if I want). I've just accepted that all of those terms are going to seem incorrect in various contexts; some might say agender is wrong because I'm not bothered by being gendered masculine or feminine, or that I'm not genderqueer or genderfluid because I'm not always or regularly crossing or blending gender presentation lines and frequently just present as a guy because it's easiest and I'm tired and don't feel like thinking about things. (Although at home "easiest and I don't feel like thinking about things" means putting on my favorite skirt and nothing else, but if I wear that out, I have to think about what other people are going to think, and thinking about what people think is hard and I usually don't care enough to deal with it).

The language (like most language about most things outside hard science and math) is ill-defined and means different things to different people and draws boxes that, as inclusive as it tries to be, still may not fit everybody, but those words are the best vague gestures I've found to use if I have to use vague gestures like them. In practice, I find that I don't usually need to; I just let other people use whatever words they think fit best (a privilege people like you and I have, I suppose), and if someone wants to know something specific about me, I give them a specific answer instead of a one-word label.

I think YouTube mathemusician Vi Hart put it best when she said "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR MEAT NOISES".
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:31 pm UTC

Thank you! It feels wonderful to know that there are other people out there who "get" it.

Pfhorrest wrote:and I'm kinda thrilled on the odd occasions where I pass as just straight female/feminine (I think because it indicates that maleness/masculinity doesn't have to define or confine me, I can go without it them if I want).

Oh, I can definitely relate to this! For me it's also that being referred to in traditionally feminine ways is just much more novel at the moment. I'm probably never going to pass as female (and that doesn't really bother me*), but when someone tells me that something I'm wearing looks "cute" or a friend calls me "honey" or "sweetie", there's definitely a yay! moment.

Pfhorrest wrote:I think YouTube mathemusician Vi Hart put it best when she said "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR MEAT NOISES".

I'd come across that before (but I'm sure it was way before June - maybe it's a reupload), but I needed the reminder - thanks, it's a wonderful video. This article I found also made me very happy in a similar way.

I think it's probably only the fact that I happen to have a typical male body that made me question my gender identity at all - it started with the fact that I realised I liked skirts, and nail polish, and flowers in my hair, and being emotionally expressive; and these things were for some reason discouraged. If I'd been born with a typical female body I may well have ended up just as a rather geeky, sometimes tomboyish girl who happened not to have a strong gender identity. That doesn't mean that my identity is more female than male, it just means that my preferred presentation is often more strongly policed on people with my sort of body.

Pfhorrest wrote:I just let other people use whatever words they think fit best (a privilege people like you and I have, I suppose)

Yeah, it's definitely a privilege to never really feel misgendered, whatever gender people refer to you as, although it does come with the unfortunate corollary of people telling you that your actual gender/lack thereof doesn't really exist.

*other than the fact that "feminine/ambiguous presenting but gendered male by others" appears to be one of the most physically unsafe combos out there - that bit definitely bothers me.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:14 pm UTC

A lot of what you've said seems quite familiar to me. Personally, I identify as genderqueer and genderfluid and, in particular, my experiences when I'm more agender-y seem more like yours. I think overall, I tend to feel a bit more of an internal sense of gender than you (although mostly anti-male rather than pro-anything-in-particular) but sometimes I definitely don't really mind if people misgender me.

I don't know; my mind doesn't seem to be able to make its mind on most things.

Edit: I'm not sure if this made much sense, I was quite tired when I made it. One of the reasons I like genderqueer as a term is that it's very general and includes pretty much the entire range of my genders. Most of the time, I don't have much internal sense of gender, but I do get quite strong reactions to being gendered in some cases.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:39 am UTC

@eSOANEM - your post made perfect sense to me. And yeah, that's why I like genderqueer too.

Incidentally Vi Hart used a term (I found it on twitter, not in the video Pfhorrest linked) that I really like, and I think I will add it to the list of "terms which describe me": gender-agnostic. I don't really get along with it as an identity (although I can't really rationalise why not), but as a convenient descriptor it seems pretty spot on for me.

Edit: Although, I should also confess that an embarrassingly large part of why I gravitate towards genderqueer, over other options which also more-or-less describe me, is that we have by far the prettiest pride flag IMO :D

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Sungura » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:07 am UTC

So I identify with a lot of what you've said. I don't fit neatly into boxes, but I'm ok with being gendered female in public. I go with genderqueer or demigirl myself. I'm not really sure of any advice or anything, but I've had to accept/deal with (hard to accept) a lack of friends and people hating me for being outspoken. Which is kinda the hardest part. I feel like I have very few friends. And the ones I have often turn out to be fake.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:30 pm UTC

CN: fear of rejection, associated gender dysphoria and anxiety

Spoiler:
There's a person who's been at a few events I've been to lately who seems pretty cool and I would possibly like to ask out. This is already a very anxiety-y thing for me, but the issue is that, the first time I met her, people were talking about their sexuality and she was talking about how she's some flavour of bi/pan/queer but is in general attracted to androgyny.

I am non-binary and have sometimes used the word androgyne as an identity and I'm worried that, if I do ask her out and she isn't interested, my brain weasels will decide that this is because I'm not non-binary enough and will hit me with a bunch of dysphoria which adds even more to the anxiety.

Idk, I know on an intellectual level that there are many reasons she might not be interested in me and that it's probably more likely that one of these would be the case, but sadly that doesn't help my anxiety.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Echo244 » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:42 am UTC

Spoiler to match the previous post:

Spoiler:
Is there an intermediate stage to asking her out? I dunno, maybe something like asking if she'll be at one of the events you've seen her at but in future... not as a date, something you'd go together to, just something you'd both be at, if you get the difference. A chance to see her again, and maybe get to know her a bit better, plus letting her know you'd like to see her again, but without the attendant pressure of "Would you like to go with me"...

Not that I'm any good at asking people out myself. ;-D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:53 pm UTC

Spoilered as per above
Spoiler:
Oh man, can I relate to this. *hugs* if you want them. I know that anxiety isn't logical, and doesn't necessarily respond to other people telling you what you know already, but let me say loud and clear that regardless of expression there is really no such thing as "not non-binary enough" (something I need to tell myself a lot too). Furthermore she is very likely to know this too, given that (also from personal experience) bi/pan people often get hit with feelings of not being "queer enough".

One thing which I got told when I was dealing with dating and rejection a while back that was helpful for me was that people in general make decisions based mostly on themselves, not on others (that's not a bad thing by the way - of course people do that and it's entirely healthy). Therefore, if she doesn't want to go out with you then that's very much more likely to be something to do with her - what she is feeling about relationships and her idiosyncratic romantic preferences, than anything to do with you that's in the least bit generalizable.

Maybe, when you ask her out, let a good friend or two know, and arrange for them to be available afterwards, so you've got some support/validation already in place in case it doesn't go as you'd hoped. Perhaps set up whatever activities you find relaxing, anxiety-reducing and/or gender-affirming for then. This also means that, if it does go well, you have some people around to celebrate with.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:58 pm UTC

My favourite plaid shirts finally gave up on me. There is much sadness. Kinda to do with this, my gender swung very wildly and strongly towards female. It was quite distressing.

Basically, I was looking for new plaid shirts in the menswear section (where I've always got my clothes from before) and all the plaid shirts seem to have got way too thick. It looks like the womenswear plaid shirts are not so thick and look much more like what I want (and don't all seem to require significant boobage).

The thing is, I am very much not comfortable walking into a shop's womenswear department and looking at and trying on clothes (because I am very likely to be read as male); I also don't know what size I am because "women's" sizing is way more complicated than "men's"v and all the sizing charts I've found seem to be for more boob-requiring items of clothing so I can't even easily work out my size and order online.

I don't know, this then basically made me realise that an awful lot of the way I'd like to dress is pretty similar to lesbian stereotypes and then, from this, my gender seemed to very quickly jump to pretty female.

Anyone have any advice on how to work out my size for flat-chested/"androgynous" plaid shirts from my t-shirt size/chest size (medium and 38" respectively). I'm in the UK if this different across the pond.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:09 pm UTC

Had you been in the US I would have suggested getting shirts from an online store called Bonobos - they're great, have free returns (and no paying on shipping), and pretty much all my buttoned shirts are from them. However it looks like they don't do international shipping.

Maybe you can go to a store that also has an online catalog, try on shirts once or twice, and then you can buy stuff online instead of dealing with it at the store? That's what I did with that store.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Echo244 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:50 pm UTC

Wild-ish guess of in the size 12-14 range? Depending on the shirt, really. Something cut to be closely fitting at that size might end up tight in awkward places; something designed to be worn looser might be fine. Also, vanity-sized high street brands might be fine at that size, but high-fashion stuff made for terribly thin people might offer those sizes and yet not fit.

Online stores should offer no-quibble money-back deals and I seem to remember at least one encouraging people to order (buy) a couple of sizes, try them on (don't remove the tags!) and then return the one(s) that didn't fit. Next or New Look or somewhere? Trying stuff on is really the best way sometimes, even when you already have a good idea of your size, so an online store with a good returns policy sounds like the best option to me...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:20 pm UTC

One of my friends (a woman who's clothes are only a bit tight on me) reckons I'm about a 14 at M&S so I may well try them first. They've also got a pretty good returns policy.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Quercus » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:19 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:One of my friends (a woman who's clothes are only a bit tight on me) reckons I'm about a 14 at M&S so I may well try them first. They've also got a pretty good returns policy.


I think that sounds about right. I'm a 14-16 in shirts depending on the brand/how stretchy they are (shoulders are the thing that I have to fit to - with strappy tops I'm a 12-14), and from what I can remember of you one size smaller than me seems right (I went on a shopping trip for a couple of new outfits to coordinate around skirts recently, and found out a lot about sizes then!). One thing I've found is that particular brands tend to be geared around particular body shapes, so if you find one thing that fits you from a brand, then it's likely that lots of other things will fit you from them.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:35 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:I don't know, this then basically made me realise that an awful lot of the way I'd like to dress is pretty similar to lesbian stereotypes and then, from this, my gender seemed to very quickly jump to pretty female.


Apropos of nothing, I thought I would dress this way, until I started getting dysphoria wearing my old clothing. I only just recently bought some new T-shirts in the proper cut, and they look and feel much better than the last time I wore one. It's subtle, but it makes a big difference to me...

I think part of the problem for me is that I don't have the body type to wear the kind of clothes I want to wear - I'm endomorphic, and even having lost a fair bit of weight since starting on HRT, I'm still much too heavy for the kind of sporty clothes I would ideally wear.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:37 pm UTC

On a different topic: for those of you who are / have been on HRT, do you have appetite issues? I am desperately trying to keep myself down to an 1800-calorie-a-day diet (with about a 30%/50%/20% fat/carb/protein ratio), but I'm not having much luck. One thing that my wife has suggested is that, since I'm going through second puberty, my appetite may be higher because I'm "growing". Any idea how much truth there could be to that?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:36 am UTC

I'm MtF, and a little after I started taking cypro I started to develop an eating disorder. Now that I'm (mostly) in remission from that, I seem to be eating healthily and not over-eating.
Otherwise, 1800 kcal isn't exactly a huge amount of food if you're active. I've attached the Australian & New Zealand NHMRC Nutrient Reference Values recommendation for energy intake to this post, but presuming you're about 1.7 metres tall, your basal metabolism is about 6.0 MJ/day, which means you're eating for an activity level of about 1.26: 1.2 is bed rest, and below 1.4 is not compatible with living healthily. So you probably shouldn't worry if you have to eat another megajoule per day (about an additional 240 kcal), you should still lose weight so long as you're doing a decent amount of light exercise (e.g. walking).
Also, carbs don't keep you full for long, which could be another issue for your inability to keep to the diet; make sure you're getting enough fibre with it and try eating more grains (e.g. oat, soy, barley).
I am not a nutritionist, so take my advice in the category of 'someone on the Internet said' and not suitable medical advice.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:19 pm UTC

NovaNatalia wrote:... 1800 kcal isn't exactly a huge amount of food if you're active. I've attached the Australian & New Zealand NHMRC Nutrient Reference Values recommendation for energy intake to this post, but presuming you're about 1.7 metres tall, your basal metabolism is about 6.0 MJ/day, which means you're eating for an activity level of about 1.26: 1.2 is bed rest, and below 1.4 is not compatible with living healthily. So you probably shouldn't worry if you have to eat another megajoule per day (about an additional 240 kcal), you should still lose weight so long as you're doing a decent amount of light exercise (e.g. walking).
Also, carbs don't keep you full for long, which could be another issue for your inability to keep to the diet; make sure you're getting enough fibre with it and try eating more grains (e.g. oat, soy, barley).


I've been to a nutritionist, which has helped me get to where I am, but unfortunately I seem to have hit a wall, probably because of my own stubbornness.

I'm not active, not at all. We don't have a PAL measurement in North America (Canadian myself), but most online calorie calculators use a definition that says if you aren't doing at least 30 minutes of intentional exercise per day, you're "sedentary". I don't know where that would fall on the PAL line.

And before you ask, I know darn well I should exercise, but I have never found anything which actually motivates me to do it - no, not even the spectre of death. My brain is very good at coming up with excuses not to (the current one: the more energy you burn, the more you need to replace, so exercise is not a net caloric loss when I'm trying to lose weight). Hence I'm trying to do this mostly with diet, because that has been easier to pull off than exercise.

I'm 38 years old, so that puts me on a slightly lower BMR (5.7). I don't know if having a MUCH larger BMI makes an impact on this chart (mine is closer to 33 than 22). I'm also diabetic, which causes a few problems with fibre - the best sources are carbs, but sources high in fibre are generally also higher than I can get away with eating. The 50% carb thing is because I'm hard-capped at 225g (15 servings) of carbs a day, and that's HIGHER than I probably should be, but getting away from carbs is hard over here.

I appreciate the suggestions, though, Nova, and that particular chart is not one I've seen before. Very thorough.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Shivahn » Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:21 am UTC

I have a suggestion, but it's for the exercise bit, which I know isn't what you're looking for, but it might be worth sharing.

Spoiler:
I am not sure if this will work as well for exercise, but it does for other stuff: reframing stuff so it's hard to really fail is actually a good motivator. Let me give an example (since this is where it came into my life) that might help? I've been trying to learn to draw lately, and asked a friend for help. One bit of advice he gave me was to practice every day.... but don't set a goal like "practice for thirty minutes," because people largely don't do that, and then it gets later in the day, and they've failed, because thirty minutes is huge and a commitment and effort to do. Instead, he told me to start drawing three times per day. It doesn't matter for how long, just a few minutes is enough.

The trick is that 1) this is so easy (I just have to start drawing! It's not a big thing) and 2) you never actually do a thing for just five minutes. "Draw three times a day" pretty quickly became "draw for forty five minutes a day."

It might be worth just seeing if starting to exercise once a day works for you.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:52 am UTC

I birthed a baby about 24 hours ago :3
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby NovaNatalia » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:45 am UTC

Good work! =D I understand it isn't really a comfortable experience =P
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Zohar » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:50 pm UTC

Monika wrote:I birthed a baby about 24 hours ago :3

A BABY? That is an entire human being! Congrats! I hope it was as stress-free as possible, and that the coming months go easy for you.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby natraj » Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:40 pm UTC

aaa baby! congratulations, and welcome to earth to the teeny newling!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Deva » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:00 pm UTC

Congratulations. Did you reflexively welcome them to the fora too?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:26 pm UTC

NovaNatalia wrote:Good work! =D I understand it isn't really a comfortable experience =P

I can confirm that. ^^

Deva wrote:Congratulations. Did you reflexively welcome them to the fora too?

:P
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Aaeriele » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:08 am UTC

!! Congratulations Monica! Also condolences for your sleep schedule.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Monika » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:00 pm UTC

Aaeriele wrote:!! Congratulations Monica! Also condolences for your sleep schedule.

Thanks and thanks :D

Sleep? What is sleep? I vaguely remember such a thing from more than 2 weeks ago ...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

Postby CelticNot » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:15 pm UTC

Randomly, but my legal change of name documentation finally came back, so I am now legally my new name and not my old one. Huzzah!

Now if only my brain would stop using the old name...

(Gender change is going to be trickier, as in Canada name changes are done in province of residence, but gender marker changes are done in the province of birth, and I no longer live in the province where I was born. And certain documentation is going to have to wait until that's done and my new birth cert is received...)
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