[SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQA Thread - Queer Support!

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Osha » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:24 pm UTC

Van wrote:Oh god, muscle mass. I get a fairly good workout at the grocery store I work at, and while I didn't really like (or intend to be) muscular, it's something weird to go from being able to lift everything at work without a thought to "hey, this box is 35lbs. that's going to be hard to lift." in not even two months. The illogical side of my brain idly worries that I'm going to end up bedridden, unable to even lift my body.

Osha wrote:stuff
That.. is more or less a perfect description of how I felt. Add on anxiety about my height, and it's a perfect match.

Height! Yes! It's something I didn't think about until starting transistioning... then I realized most other women aren't six feet tall <.<

And, wow, sounds like your hormones are working really great for you. I need to make a doctors appointment this week, so I'll try and pester him about mine (I've gotten more hair on me hands and feet and... er... penis shaft, surely this is not what is supposed to happen! And hot flashes! I've never heard of anyone getting hot flashes when on hormones ever! Fortunately those have settled down a bit)
My doctor admits to not really knowing a lot about this, I say "hot flashes! Weird hair!" and he says "That shouldn't happen" <.< I know it shouldn't happen! Grah! I wonder if my absurdly over the top metabolism has anything to do with it?

If you don't mind me asking... what sort of dosages do they have you on?

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby DJorgensen » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:16 pm UTC

Ah, while I don't get hot flashes, I tend to be rather warm to the touch since starting hormones (as in my face is often flushed and there is little I can do about it). And I did see some manner of increase of body hair initially that went away after a couple months too. I haven't gotten much weaker it seems, but I've certainly noticed that my waist seems to go up and down very randomly. And apparently I have a jiggly bum now (and boobs of course).

Oh but the real kicker is that my endo has got me on a ton of provera (I can understand why partly - it works - but really its usually avoided because of depression and suicide... ). The result of it is that my body thinks its preggers. And my boobs are doing some rather uhhhm... interesting tricks... :|

I guess I miss being super skinny as a dude. That's really about all, and if I actually get off of my ass I know that I could be super skinny as a girl too!

And legos frigging rule.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Van » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:23 am UTC

Osha wrote:Height! Yes! It's something I didn't think about until starting transistioning... then I realized most other women aren't six feet tall <.<
Yes, they're generally not 6'3+ either. It tends to make my day when I see one close to my height :D I wish I could figure out exactly what my height is, I've been measured over a 4 inch range in the few doctor visits I've had lately! </irritation>

Osha wrote:And, wow, sounds like your hormones are working really great for you. [...] If you don't mind me asking... what sort of dosages do they have you on?
I'm on what my doctors considered the 'standard' starting dose, 200mg spiro/4mg E, and.. yeah. They're definitely not playing around! I kinda wonder if there's any link between childhood growth speed and the effectiveness of hormones? Because my results seem a little outside of typical, in both categories..

Also, while I don't know anything about hair, hot flashes aren't entirely unusual when your hormone levels are shifting; I got a few right after starting, though they seem to have mostly leveled off. Instead, I'm just cold all the time now.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:33 am UTC

Van wrote:Instead, I'm just cold all the time now.

Wow, is that an estrogen thing? Because, damn, there are days when my male coworkers are in their shirtsleeves and I'm in the bathroom running my hands under hot water for five minutes to get them to stop aching.

It sounds cooler to say "it's an estrogen thing" than to say "hey, I'm a girl, things are different for us, okay?" Gods bless the few men I know who understand this...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:40 pm UTC

Has anyone else noticed their sense of smell has changed on estrogen? I notice smells a lot more now. Like, bad BO smells, or flowers smell... like a lot. And...

It's weird. Cologne is really powerful...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Osha » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:24 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:Has anyone else noticed their sense of smell has changed on estrogen? I notice smells a lot more now. Like, bad BO smells, or flowers smell... like a lot. And...

It's weird. Cologne is really powerful...

Yes!
I first noticed it at work thinking "since when did our cleaning fluid smell like lemons?"
Then spring came and was full of flower smells and that was awesome.
It's so awesome being able to smell so many things. I love it.
My sense of smell increased so dramatically I even started smelling things and thinking "I remember this smell from when I was a kid"

Update from earlier: Human Resources have been emailed. Now I'm nervously waiting for a reply.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Delalyra » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:17 pm UTC

Good luck, Osha!!
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby L.B. » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:39 am UTC

This thread has got me being really introspective about my own attractions, and i think i've summed them up fairly succinctly:
I am attracted to femininity, and not particularly intrigued by masculinity. More revealing explanation behind the spoiler.

Spoiler:
A lot of my attraction is sex-based, for certain. While I can appreciate both the masculine and feminine in terms of appearance, when it comes to sex, i like my lovers to be feminine, no matter their genitalia. Dominant femme is my attraction of choice, because in no way expect the feminine to be weak or submissive. I find that of the men i've been with, the most masculine had their emphasis on, for lack of a better word, fucking. Even at its most interesting, it didn't do anything for me, because i couldn't relate. Me having sex with a masculine person often left me feeling sort of confused and vulnerable.


Yes. I think this is why i have such a hard time identifying a particular sexuality. Lord knows if that makes any sense at all. Or how much trouble i'm going to get in for saying it.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Van » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:28 pm UTC

poxic wrote:Wow, is that an estrogen thing?
It is! My understanding is that estrogen raises core temp, at the cost of that of limbs, etc. But IANAD :D

Jessica wrote:Has anyone else noticed their sense of smell has changed on estrogen? I notice smells a lot more now. Like, bad BO smells, or flowers smell... like a lot.
Absolutely, I had read it was one of the effects of estrogen, but it's really something else to experience it! On a similar side, I smell better. I couldn't entirely smell myself before, but if I smelled a work shirt after 8 hours stocking.. could definitely tell I'd been working. Now, detergent is the dominant smell. Win!

So, how about a question. Am I ever going to 'grow out' of having two highly sensitive impact detectors on my chest? It was novel roughly the first time it happened, "hurray, hormones are working!". Several million times later, the novelty is completely gone and I'm seriously tired of bumping myself with boxes and whatnot a hundred times a night :( If not, I really understand why there are no women on the grocery crews. Aside from them being filled with creepy druggie-type guys.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby semicharmed » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:43 pm UTC

Van: I think so, and for your sake, definitely hope so. "Highly sensitive impact detectors" indeed. When I went through my first boob-centered growth spurt, they hurt like bloody hell for probably six or eight months. And every so often after that, they'd hurt, it seemed like all my growing after I was fourteen or so was concentrated in my chest.
But now, except for the 4-5 days before Shark Week starts, I'm pretty oblivious of my chest. To the point that I can be walking next to someone and repeatedly brush my boobs into their arms and not notice. It can really freak some people out until they realize it's not purposeful.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Osha » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:52 pm UTC

So I talked to a person from HR, and that went good.
They can set up an informational session, and talk to my boss, and all that stuff.
:D
I'm not ready! I need to buy clothes and shoes and breasts and makeup :shock:

About highly sensitive impact detectors: Aww... mine are only somewhat sensitive. I mean, there hasn't really been any pain or anything (you'd think this is good but it just makes me worry they're not growing right).

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby podbaydoor » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:28 pm UTC

My boobs don't hurt all the time (besides random days in my cycle), but yeah, if I'm moving boxes and I've got them mashed up on my chest or whatever, they start to hurt. Sorry, Van, it's just part of having extra bundles of nerves that stick out of your torso...

Re: smell and estrogen. So THAT'S why my sense of smell suddenly shot up when I was pregnant. I thought it was my brain in protective mode - "detect bad smells, DANGER, trigger nausea immediately" - but the heightened estrogen makes sense too.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Van » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:45 am UTC

re:boobs: hurray! It's good to know there's less pain at the end of the tunnel. Also, Osha, I wouldn't worry about your growth; from pretty much everything I've seen, I'm a year or more ahead of the curves. pun not originally intended, but welcomed

re:HR: Hurray, Osha! I think I'm about to pay a visit to HR myself. Not so much because I'm ready to go fulltime unfortunately, but because of harassment :( On the upside, I'm union and in a state with anti-discrimination laws for gender identity, so it probably won't go too badly. I hope.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Lord Aurora » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:53 pm UTC

Osha: I was quietly cheering for your meeting with HR to go well. I'm glad it did.

Can't really contribute to the boob conversation, though. Hope ya'll's boobs start to be less sensitive, I suppose?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:23 pm UTC

I feel so far behind on breasts... 1 year and 7 months, and I still can't wear a bra, as they're too small.

But, I have an appointment with a plastic surgeon for a breast surgery consultation.

Also, I believe that my voice is pretty good as it is.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby InfamousAnarchist » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:46 am UTC

I just came out for the first time to a person. I'm a bisexual dude, for those playing at home.

We are still best friends. Yes to no stupid homophobia! (although to be fair, she is a female and hetero).

But whatever. The overwhelming sense of liberation is awesome.

EDIT: I forgot to include the first thing she said: "Does this mean we can talk about boys now?"

We're both in hetero relationships. It's rather hilarious.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:18 am UTC

InfamousAnarchist wrote:But whatever. The overwhelming sense of liberation is awesome.

Yes.

Spoilered, after typing all this out and realising it was probably too whiny:
Spoiler:
When I managed to tell my father that I was asexual, I prefaced it with a lot of explanation about why I was convinced of it. (The kicker line was "I had no idea that there was supposed to be an emotional reward to sex. I've never felt it.") His response was to go quiet for a minute, then say, "Well, if you don't enjoy it, there's no point in doing it." YES! He gets it!

I haven't quite said as much to my mother, beyond a mild hint here or there. Maybe I'm a coward, but I just can't see her wrapping her head around it. (She's 70, and her whole life has been about ignoring her own wants/needs in order to make herself into someone socially acceptable. Ouch, for her and for her daughter. :| )

I've told the brother who lives near me, and two of my best friends. They get it, more or less. The next hurdle might be my birth mother, if only because I can tell her stuff and then avoid her for months on end. (I already do that, just because birth parent relations are bloody strange anyway.)

I can imagine being out, and therefore maybe feeling free to be fully myself, everywhere. I can't yet imagine going through what I'd have to go through in order for that to happen, though. Sometimes gays and bisexuals find less hostility than asexuals do. At least a homosexual person isn't assumed to be saying that sexuality is a bad thing, or something like that. (I really don't understand the antipathy toward asexuality, probably because I don't really understand sexuality. What is so personally offensive about the fact that sex just doesn't do anything for me? Why do so many people need to argue that I'm doing it wrong, or that I'm faking it or just hate men/repressed lesbian or summat? WTF?)

Good on you, Infamous. Here's to many more comings out, and much more liberation. :wink:
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:31 am UTC

I've never heard anyone say anything bad about asexuality. I don't find it strange or repugnant or whatever people think about it. In some ways it seems to make more sense than my lesbianism. I honestly can't imagine any possible issue you could have with it.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:21 am UTC

I don't have an issue with it, and the only hostility I've met has been in online arenas where anonymity and the Internet Tough GuyTM phenomenon both abound.

I've heard from an ally, though, that when he brings up the idea with sexuals of any stripe, he hears hostility from them very often. They say things like "they're doing it wrong" (something I've had directed at myself in xkcd's online chat, the one time I ventured to mention it there). Or "why the hell do they need to grab attention for this? What's their problem?" and related sentiments.

If you're willing to descend (part of the way) into the depths of online hell, check out one thread on fark.com where asexuality was (supposed to be) the main topic. Nearly all of the 900-odd posts are arguing religion/atheism, but there are some disturbing posts about [a]sexuality. Or this one, also on asexuality, and this time mostly about it. Selected quotes from both threads, spoilered for long and kinda bothering:
Spoiler:
in a class today we were just talking about how many of the people who never do immoral things...the uber-chaste, for example do so more because they are not in a position to do otherwise than because of some deep seated belief system. in other words, you justify your lack of a life by claiming it as a choice. asexuality can't be that different...get 40 asexuals in a room together with a keg and you'll see a "revival"

surprise surprise, they look like shiat. but hey, its a good excuse for not having to confidence to ask for it.

Get good at sex, that'll make up for deficiencies elsewhere.

Of course, you ask almost anyone who has a sexual dysfunction and they'll claim they're perfectly normal, perfectly healthy. The denial itself is a symptom of whatever makes them uninterested in sex. But, on the other hand, anything that gets them to pair up instead of inflicting that defect on someone with a normal, healthy desire for sex is a good thing.

If they gain pleasure from cuddling and stuff then they are not asexual just nonsexual, so no they shouldn't be treated as a different orientation. That would require all the other "fetishes" or lack their of to also be treated like an orientation as well.

So what does "validate" mean? They want us to agree that they're not weird? To stop assuming they're in some kind of denial, or else damaged goods? I'm not really sure what concrete social or legislative issue "asexuals" have to hang their abstinent little hats on.

No sex. Normal, healthy, and what else? I'm sorry, you're going to have a hard time selling that. Think about it for just a half a second, and then explain how this trait contributes to the survival of the species.

I think that my life is perfectly meaningful and worth living even if I do end up spending it alone. I'm definitely not opposed to finding someone to share my silly life with, but I resent the idea that I'm somehow incomplete or a failure if I don't manage to find someone. No intelligent person would disagree with you here, but you will have 'failed' if you do want to meet someone and you ruin chances for yourself for whatever reason.

I hate to assume, but I would be interested to know what percentage of these asexual people had a farked-up childhood. And if not farked-up, at least not normal. I wonder how many of them were abused as children. :-(

Reproduction is one of the most deeply ingrained genetic aspects of our behavior. Generally, it does take severe trauma to override something like that.

I know ... women who don't care if they never have sex again. There's actually a term for women like that. They're called "married women past their childbearing years."

Sex is vastly different though. Sex is something that is so deeply ingrained in our psyche that even the most traumetized people will still have it on their mind. It's instinctual and cannot be escaped.

Remember the Shakers? Probably not because they were another "no sex" group. Kinda stymies growth when you can't reproduce. These guys will go the same way.

if the only thing that matters to you is your (or someone else's) sexual orientation, you might as well just end it all right now because you are, in my opinion, only as useful as your internal organs. so go to the hospital, donate yourself and die knowing you finally did somebody some good because while you're living, you are a waste of space.

They sell T-shirts touting their lifestyle and hand out pamphlets explaining that they're normal and perfectly happy with their lives. No. NO. Shut up shut up shut UP. Do NOT do this, you obnoxious, Hare-Krishna-Jehovah's-Witness-Evangelical... NO. STOP IT. NOW. You don't want to have sex, great, fine, whatever, your life, but I DON'T. F*CKING. CARE. Go away.

He's gay and she's a lesbian. Case closed.

First, I call shenanigans.

Meh. If they're content, so be it. Maybe they are deluded, but that's the good thing about the brain - you can fool it if you want to. Maybe one day they will decide that they do want to start farking, but for now maybe this helps them make it through the day.

Ahhhhahah the perfect white people for the new century, no sex - no kids. Our libby lefty global conspiracy should be so proud.

Both of these people need a good banging. Then we'll see how 'asexual' they are.

I'll go out on a limb and blame porn. Is it any wonder that - after watching attractive, energetic and enthusiastic porn stars go at it with wild abandon - that many people might find it hard to get interested in sex with their actual, doughy, meek and entirely unsexy partners? Thoughts . . . . .

Oh man, this is just a way for virgins to come off looking "trendy". This will pass just like the metrosexual fad in a year or two. Afterwards, these asexuals will be kicking themselves in the jewels saying "I can't believe I went 2 years without sex just to be hip". I guess on the bright side, these unwanted virgins aren't procreating, and filling the earth with their ugly offspring.

But I know what you explained works pretty well. A little time and energy, and shazam... a person people will want to spend time with.

The last thing we need is another pack of attention whores pushing their sexual opinions one everyone around them. I'm sure they are just hoping someone will try to "oppress" them so they can get all indignant; now I'm no longer just another boring dork, I'm an OPRESSED MINORITY! -Give me a break.

If you don't have energy for sex, then you are lazy. If you don't have the interest or fire for it, then you have been abused, or have been hurt to some degree. Big difference between the two. I'm sure there is a mix of the two issues that the subject of this article resides upon. ... Sex is as much spiritual as it is physical and visceral. No one can be described as healthy with an absense of a sex drive.

Why is everyone getting so upset about this? I'm sure parading your lifestyle around and claiming to be different and special is much easier on the ol' self esteeem than just admiting that you're ugly and don't have a snow ball's chance in hell of getting laid.

I would be willing to wager that a fair number of these people have hardcore christian upbringings. When all you hear for the first 18+ years of your life is that sex is evil and dirty and should only occur under certain circumstances, then it's easy to see how your head starts to get all messed up about sex.

Granted, this is pretty tame compared to the things that are said about others in the LGBTIQQ spectrum, and not much has been said to my face (digital or otherwise). It's still saddening, though, that people can be so closed-minded about anything that contradicts what they think is their universe-given right to be the centre of all that's normal and correct.

The hardest thing for any person to learn, maybe, is the skill of not knowing -- that is, being able to handle knowing that they know so little, knowing that they can be blindsided at any time by something brand new, and possibly unsettling, and that they can handle this new knowledge gracefully and with humbleness. Universe knows I'm still working on that.

PS: forgot about one reply that I think happened on xkcd chat. "If you're female and asexual, then you're a waste of air." I attribute this to the above-mentioned Internet Tough GuyTM syndrome, and I reserve the right to believe that the commenter was 12 years old and socially inept, but it's still not a nice environment to find oneself in.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby michaelandjimi » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:44 am UTC

poxic, I know you don't need me to validate your anger at the idiots, but goddamn is that one of the more ignorant things I have read. I mean, even aside from the judging people for doing stuff that doesn't affect anyone aside from themselves, they've demonstrated an enormous lack of intelligence on the topic as well. You're a completely normal person, poxic, and you shouldn't be judged for what you choose to do.

Spoiler'd for meandering rant at poxic's internet person:
Spoiler:
Main thing that struck me: Evolution says we shouldn't be asexual? What? Yeah, because the interests of evolution dictates how we should live our lives. I apologise profusely for not having sex with every breathing female I see around, and killing any dominant males who turn up.

And, y'know, just because an asexual person doesn't get turned on by sexual intercourse doesn't mean that they are physically incapable of having children. I don't particularly enjoy washing up, but that doesn't mean my house isn't going to have any clean dishes. Other people can even do the dishes for me, if they feel like it, and I really could do without dishes anyway. There's mostly finger food in this overextended metaphor house.

And pretending you know a single thing about what a person's actual motivations for pursuing a course of action are, especially when your interpretation is at odds with what they say, is one of the more ridiculous things you can do. Saying asexuals only don't like sex because they suck at it is as bad as saying that all homosexuals are really closet heteros who haven't found the right girl/guy.

Also, internet person clearly has no grasp of structure or communication.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:48 am UTC

I can't type very well well through the Rage but even if asexuals don't get as much (voiced) hatred as gays, transsexuals etc.. doesn't mean that it doesn't count. It's WRONG for people to assume that something is wrong with you, or that you were abused, or raised wrong or whatever. Just because you don't see the discrimination as often doesn't mean that we don't have to try to correct it. I'm sorry you've gotten abuse, even if not to your face. :( I hope the misconeptions change.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:56 am UTC

Thanks guys. And btw, michaelandjimi, the "internet person" is a collection of quotes from many many people, so yes, there's no structure there. :wink:

Also, I totally did double-takes at your avatar until I sat and stared at it, waiting for entire seconds, I tell you until I saw that yes, it was indeed moving. :D
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby ParanoidAndroid » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:01 am UTC

poxic wrote: The hardest thing for any person to learn, maybe, is the skill of not knowing -- that is, being able to handle knowing that they know so little, knowing that they can be blindsided at any time by something brand new, and possibly unsettling, and that they can handle this new knowledge gracefully and with humbleness. Universe knows I'm still working on that.

Yeah. This sums up what I've been thinking for the past few weeks. Today especially.
PS: forgot about one reply that I think happened on xkcd chat. "If you're female and asexual, then you're a waste of air." I attribute this to the above-mentioned Internet Tough GuyTM syndrome, and I reserve the right to believe that the commenter was 12 years old and socially inept, but it's still not a nice environment to find oneself in.

Wow. That person makes socially inept 12 year olds look like perfect gentlemen.

InfamousAnarchist wrote:I just came out for the first time to a person. I'm a bisexual dude, for those playing at home.

We are still best friends. Yes to no stupid homophobia! (although to be fair, she is a female and hetero).

But whatever. The overwhelming sense of liberation is awesome.

*High fives*

I spent almost all of today hanging out with a certain guy. I'm still kind of freaked out by the thought that I may actually like him. Well, we'll just have to see.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby michaelandjimi » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:08 am UTC

poxic wrote:Thanks guys. And btw, michaelandjimi, the "internet person" is a collection of quotes from many many people, so yes, there's no structure there. :wink:

Also, I totally did double-takes at your avatar until I sat and stared at it, waiting for entire seconds, I tell you until I saw that yes, it was indeed moving. :D
They're still idiots! Blatantly so. And I still maintain that each individual person did not have a grasp of structure either.

And that'll teach me reading comprehension. It's a valuable experience, really. Though I did wonder about the somewhat arbitrary adherence to grammar and punctuation.

Oh, and anything that tricks people into watching me for a little while is probably a good thing.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby videogamesizzle » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:05 am UTC

So I've kinda been thinking... (spoiler'd for "gee, that was longer than I intended")
Spoiler:
I really need to talk to someone IRL (not that you guys are doing a bad job, of course). Just coming out, even without a specific category to fit into, will be better than it is now. I can't talk to my parents, mostly because I have no idea where they stand anymore. I know they'd still love me and all, but I don't know if it'd be true support or just "you're my kid" love. Plus, it would be too awkward to say this to my parents. Any of my close family, really. I've kind of narrowed down a few options:

1) I'm seeing a psychiatrist for attention problems (testing for ADD and such). He'd be a good place to start, but I think he's a bit too far to work. I just don't really know him well enough to start spilling stuff like this to. I see him next tomorrow, but I doubt I'd say anything then anyway, as it's just too short notice.

2) I'm really close to one of my friends who I've known since like fourth grade, named Josh. He'd be another good source, and will definitely be first when it comes to telling friends. We've had good conversations about stuff, but he tends to be less serious about things. Don't get me wrong, it's a good quality, but when it comes to this... I dunno. I'll have to see how stuff works out. He's out of town all this week, so the next time I see him will be in drivers' ed. on Monday.

3) This is probably my best option at this point, and I've already been sort of planning it out. My family is taking it's semi-regular vacation to Gulf Shores, Alabama on the first of August. So far, it's seeming like it'll be pretty big this year, with a lot of people coming down who haven't for a while, including grandpa, aunt and uncle on my mom's side, with a very slight chance of her sister's family coming down again. On my dad's side, it's my grandma and grandpa, as well as my dad's brother and his husband. Those last two are the important ones.
That's where I figure I'll have a chance. I'm pretty close to both of them, but they live in California, so we don't see them too often, which is usually bad, but might be good here. Plus, I'm pretty sure that they could keep it all a secret pretty well. They are kind of... silly, for lack of a better term, but they can be serious when need be. I've actually kind of figured out what to do even. I figure I'll ask if we could grab lunch or something while making it clear that we need to talk. I'm not sure past that point, but it's better than the others.

So yeah.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby steewi » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:40 am UTC

videogamesizzle wrote:So I've kinda been thinking... (spoiler'd for "gee, that was longer than I intended")
Spoiler:
I really need to talk to someone IRL (not that you guys are doing a bad job, of course). Just coming out, even without a specific category to fit into, will be better than it is now. I can't talk to my parents, mostly because I have no idea where they stand anymore. I know they'd still love me and all, but I don't know if it'd be true support or just "you're my kid" love. Plus, it would be too awkward to say this to my parents. Any of my close family, really. I've kind of narrowed down a few options:

1) I'm seeing a psychiatrist for attention problems (testing for ADD and such). He'd be a good place to start, but I think he's a bit too far to work. I just don't really know him well enough to start spilling stuff like this to. I see him next tomorrow, but I doubt I'd say anything then anyway, as it's just too short notice.

2) I'm really close to one of my friends who I've known since like fourth grade, named Josh. He'd be another good source, and will definitely be first when it comes to telling friends. We've had good conversations about stuff, but he tends to be less serious about things. Don't get me wrong, it's a good quality, but when it comes to this... I dunno. I'll have to see how stuff works out. He's out of town all this week, so the next time I see him will be in drivers' ed. on Monday.

3) This is probably my best option at this point, and I've already been sort of planning it out. My family is taking it's semi-regular vacation to Gulf Shores, Alabama on the first of August. So far, it's seeming like it'll be pretty big this year, with a lot of people coming down who haven't for a while, including grandpa, aunt and uncle on my mom's side, with a very slight chance of her sister's family coming down again. On my dad's side, it's my grandma and grandpa, as well as my dad's brother and his husband. Those last two are the important ones.
That's where I figure I'll have a chance. I'm pretty close to both of them, but they live in California, so we don't see them too often, which is usually bad, but might be good here. Plus, I'm pretty sure that they could keep it all a secret pretty well. They are kind of... silly, for lack of a better term, but they can be serious when need be. I've actually kind of figured out what to do even. I figure I'll ask if we could grab lunch or something while making it clear that we need to talk. I'm not sure past that point, but it's better than the others.

So yeah.

School counsellors are also trained pretty much specifically for that sort of thing. You also seem to be in a place where there'd likely be a youth centre with people you can talk to, too, or even a full on LGBT centre, if you're feeling brave.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby poxic » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:57 am UTC

It might be bloody hard to come out, in a way, by walking into an LGBT centre in or near one's school. I'm still debating with myself whether to join next year's Pride parade (the UBC LGBTwtf group has had an asexual presence in the parade for a few years, I think). I'm even still debating whether to walk into the Pride office downtown one day, never mind do something more public than that. It's a somewhat strange, very personal decision to make.

vgs, I kind of like your idea of coming out to medium-distance family, especially family that you already know will be safe to talk to. Your uncle and his partner (your uncles, as it were) will probably have some encouraging or informative things to say to you. That's the way to do it, really: start small, start safe. Build up your confidence the same way you did when you learned to walk instead of crawl: start by standing and holding onto something safe. Later, you can stand without holding on. Even later, you can start taking steps. Very few people "hit the ground running".

Have fun, and stress out a bit if you have to. You'll look back on your first "coming out talk", maybe fondly or not, but always as something to remember, something that marked your journey as a person. Just a stepping stone in the path of your life, but a sort of sacred one, in a way. One that marks not just where you've been, but where you want to go.

/your intent is your magic, a mystic might say
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby videogamesizzle » Fri Jul 03, 2009 4:45 pm UTC

I'm not sure I'm at the point of joining an LGBT group yet. My school does have a gay-straight alliance, but staying after for that would get my parents a bit too interested, and I'm not a good enough liar to get away with it.

I've pretty much decided that I'm going to talk to at least one of my uncles while at the beach. Seeing as they're married, There's really no grey area as to how they feel about the topic. :) Of course, this just makes the wait to go there even more agonizing, seeing as I have to add that on top of just wanting to go (it's been a while since we went there last).
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Enuja » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:06 pm UTC

videogamesizzle, coming out to your uncles sounds like a great plan, but I'd also bring it up with your psychiatrist in a "I'd like to talk to someone about coming out and sexuality, I'm not ready to come out to my parents and I'm not sure who to talk to: any ideas?" kind of way. Your psychiatrist might be able to recommend a more local option the purpose of which can be kept confidential from your parents.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby videogamesizzle » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:08 pm UTC

I may talk to him, but the next chance might be the last, and it seems like it'll be a session with my parents, too. If I can talk to him, I might.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Ubik » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:16 pm UTC

Hi people. I'm gay.

That was the third time I have done this. I told my brother couple years ago, but we haven't talked about it since. I think he doesn't want to push me into talking about it. I came out to my friend in the end of last year. Luckily he took it well, but I don't know if I can talk about this in depth with him. Having really small social circles sucks in a situation like this, but I don't think I'm going to get into that Dear SB'ish here.

Writing this message feels kind of funny because there are several people at my workplace who read the comic, and I haven't tried to conceal my identity here in the fora...well except for making sure to not use my full name in one place to lower googlability but that's besides the point, my facerity has been posted here so I can definitely be recognized. Anyway you get what I'm aiming at, right now I might be outing myself to people I know personally. Feels weird.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby videogamesizzle » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:06 am UTC

*hugs Ubik* Welcome to the other side!
It does feel really weird, but when you get support from people and learn they don't hate you, it's much better. Well, I'm just basing this on the few fora-based friends I've made, but from that, i't been great to have friends who accept it and support me. I'll figure out about IRL outing this August, hopefully.
*hugs Ubik again*
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby aging.child » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:36 pm UTC

Ubik wrote: I told my brother couple years ago, but we haven't talked about it since. I think he doesn't want to push me into talking about it.

Same problem here. Not with my brother, mind you, but I only came out to one friend, and I think she's still awkward about talking about it. She was very supportive, but I don't want to make her uncomfortable, and she probably doesn't want to make me uncomfortable. I really don't want to have to come out to more talkative people...
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Ubik » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:59 pm UTC

Aww, thanks, videogamesizzle.
aging.child wrote:Same problem here. Not with my brother, mind you, but I only came out to one friend, and I think she's still awkward about talking about it. She was very supportive, but I don't want to make her uncomfortable, and she probably doesn't want to make me uncomfortable. I really don't want to have to come out to more talkative people...
I meet my brother a few times a year, and every time I think about bringing up the subject. Then I just don't say anything because I realize that I don't even know what I would actually say. And now I got trapped in my thoughts, maybe I'll just post this as it is now.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:13 pm UTC

My coming out was internally difficult but completely okay with my friends, family etc.. It probably has something to do with me living in the gayest part of the country and the fact that half my friends were already out anyways. It was sort of my second coming out since I had, up until then identified as bi. So it wasn't some great revealing of a secret, it was more a "Oh by the way, I'm a lesbian." Apparently everyone had already figured it out so the general response was "Yeah, I know." Sometimes the last person to figure it out is you which isn't all that great a confidence boost.

My point is that maybe you're not the only one who knows, and if you haven't gotten shit for it, it might be a positive sign.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby steewi » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:59 am UTC

It's amazing how difficult it can be to come out even when there's no loss to be had, or even if you know you'll have a positive response. It's a problem I've had on many occasions and one I didn't live up to.

I came out to someone I know through here (due to meeting them here...). It was exhilarating enough to give me an adrenaline rush.

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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby InfamousAnarchist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:43 pm UTC

Virtual_Aardvark wrote: It was sort of my second coming out.

I'm sure there's a "second coming ≠ Judgement Day" joke in there, but I can't find it.

In any case, she's right. Sometimes, those who know you best don't know you at all (i.e. the fora)
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby diotimajsh » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:48 pm UTC

steewi wrote:It's amazing how difficult it can be to come out even when there's no loss to be had, or even if you know you'll have a positive response. It's a problem I've had on many occasions and one I didn't live up to.
True. I felt this strong reluctance - almost anxiety - to talk to my sister about my gender-related concerns even though I was 99% sure she'd be absolutely fine with it.

edit: How the heck did I leave out the grammatical antecedent to that pronoun? Bother.
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby dragon » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:22 am UTC

Greetings, LGBTIQQ thread.

I would expect that most of my friends don't know my orientation, because I expect to hear "Why are you telling me this? I don't care." ... so I don't tell people. 'Bi' feels like a nothing for a female to say, in my circles, in my environment. This post had objectionable content.
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Context? What context?
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Re: [SAFESPACE] LGBTIQQ Thread - Queer Support!

Postby Jessica » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:24 pm UTC

My coming out was like aardvarks, horrible on the inside but relatively pain free on the outside. Everyone was "ok" with it. I put that in quotation marks because... well there are different degrees of OK. one degree being "I'm socially required by my beliefs to accept you, but you still kind of freak me out by being here". Which kind of sucks. I really hate seeing friends have that reaction (or... well technically you can never tell if someone has that reaction. I mean, it looks obvious to me, because some people, you tell them things and they just don't talk about it, and they seem cold and distant, and others are happy, and like to talk about it.)
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