xkcd

by **Zeroignite** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

Something I found useful when coming out to people I was nervous about was to tell them beforehand "There's something I'd like to talk to you about." It's marginally easier than saying "I'm trans" directly but essentially doesn't allow run-hiding as an option anymore, so you self-commit to it.

by **Brace** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:43 am UTC

Prefacing it is good, but it's also good to keep it simple when you first come out. If you try to prepare some perfect speech that captures every facet of your thoughts and feelings on the subject, you'll end up choking. Two or three words should be sufficient. Or two or three words per sentence. After doing that a few times it starts to get easier.

by **poxic** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:29 am UTC

Attention people who may be nervous about going to buy skirts but really want one: I have one long swishy colourful skirt left!

Here's me (awkwardly) modeling my skirt, which looks exactly like the one I have available. Yes, I have two of the same skirt. I wanted one, and I figured someone else would like the other one. (Modeled awkwardly because I'm leaning forward to blindly aim the camera at my legs. >.<)

Spoiler:

It will fit a waist of about 26 inches up to 36 or 38 inches, or maybe a touch bigger if you don't mind it tight. It's 35 inches long and puffs out a little bit when you twirl in it.

Made of rayon.

I'll ship it free. The purchase price is one donation by you to a worthy cause, plus one pic of you in the skirt when you get it (if you're comfortable with that).

by **natashatasha** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:45 am UTC

Thank you all for your words of support. Prefacing like you suggest, Zeroignite & Kilroy, is how I told my friends, although I chickened out on actually telling them by linking them to this thread. It's just so much easier to tell people who are hundreds of kilometres away than to tell them to their face. I suppose I need to face up to it eventually, I just know my father is going to be really worried for me no matter how he takes it.

PM 2Ring, I do not have any female friends ... here at uni, I have two friends and two other people I speak to, and I'm quite sure none of them enjoy shopping in the slightest. Thank you for your advice on shaving too, I shall have to try it, although in truth I've never used a razor before in my life (either straight-edge or safety), just my old electric one which is about as good at shaving as a pair of scissors.

by **TaintedDeity** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:41 pm UTC

poxic, I love that you're offering an alternative option for people who migt have trouble going out and buying skirts for themselves. It's good of you

by **poxic** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:11 pm UTC

'Twasn't my idea, originally. It began via PM as a half-joke about an airlift of skirts.

by **Shivahn** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:16 pm UTC

It's an awesome thing to do!

by **Sarr** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:25 pm UTC

Indeed it is. <3

by **Monika** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:43 pm UTC

Stuff ahead mostly not particularly relevant to this thread.

My grandmother's sister died. I do not know my other grandparents' siblings, but I was close with this greataunt. She had no partner and no children. The funeral was on Friday.
It was the first funeral I attended. When my grandfather died 20 years ago, our parents did not let me and my siblings attend because there were like 200 non-family members present, because he was a professor. When my greatgrandmother died 10 years ago, I could not attend because of uni.
It was a nice. The funeral itself was sad but nice. And during the rest of the time it was like a nice family meeting. Even my mom was there and kinda cheerful and talked to family members, which she usually doesn't do (except to me and my siblings).
I was surprised that it was a religious funeral with a priest and in a small chapel on the cemetery. I know everybody in my grandparents' generation was baptized. But they never attended church and said they do not believe in God (like the majority of East Germans).
This leaves me to wonder what non-religious funerals are done like. What my parents' funerals will be like (how we should arrange them) ... what mine will be like.
What was not fun was going through her apartment. Her last wish was that her things not be thrown away as far as possible, but shared among the family.

Others seem more affected by her death than me. Everybody cried more intensively and more often. What is wrong with me?

I was only able to cry during the sad organ music in the chapel. I guess that is what it is for, being able to center on the sad feelings.
When my greatgrandmother died I had only been able to feel the sadness months later. But there I had been expecting her death, I had visited her at the hospital and it was sure she would die soon. So I thought the lack of being able to feel the sadness directly after her death was because it was no surprise. But this time I had no idea how ill my greataunt really was. I knew she had heart surgery, but I thought it was not something really major ... just a new bypass, something most people survive.

The next part is about clothes. Spoilered for useless whininess.

(Note: I do not know the English words for most clothes and shoes, I look them up in dictionaries, so maybe I get them wrong.)

Spoiler:

So I had put on a black skirt (one of the two I have had longer) and a nice black top and new shoes I had recently bought online and I felt reasonably pretty and dressed appropriately. Things I learned on Friday:
- Apparently mid-height shoes with shoelaces should not be worn with skirts; doing this looks hick.
- Socks should not be worn with skirts, either. Instead pantyhoses or stockings are required. I don't have such things.
- Redbrown shoes do not go with black skirts.
- Redbrown shoes should not be worn to funerals. That's the one thing where I say I should have figured that out myself, that funerals require black shoes.
- Even my little brother (who wears no skirts) and my sister's boyfriend (who only wears a cargo skirt) knew this stuff.
My mom and sister went to buy black open shoes and stockings with me. (They wanted to go for pantyhoses but I said no to that.)
I suggested leggings. A lot of women here wear skirts with leggings. My sister says:
- Leggings are to be worn with short skirts, not with long skirts.
- Leggings should only be worn by thin women. (My sister is also overweight.)
There goes my plan to wear leggings with my recently online bought short skirts and dresses.

I put on one of those dresses on Saturday, a darkblue one. Over my jeans pants. I had been worried about that combination because nobody seems to wear this together, except the guy with the skirt at my booth on the Linuxtag; or maybe it was not jeans but a different kind of pants, I did not pay that much attention then. My sister wears dresses with pants sometimes, but not jeans pants, but a thin kind of cloth.
- My sister commented "nice top". I said it's not a top, it's a dress (it's even one of the medium-long ones, about to my knees). But she said: "but you wear it as a top". Okay. But apparently this is not a terrible faux pas then, at least in her eyes. That's good.
- She said: "A bit too blue, though." Oh well, whatever. I don't care. I bought mostly colorful skirts and dresses. I like these right now.

Anyway. This reality is too complicated for me. Can I restart and play at a lower level?

On Friday at the restaurant after the funeral I got the idea I should take this possibility and tell my mom that I am bi (my sister and brother already know). We went outside to the car together to exchange things. But then too many people, more distant family members, were around on the parking lot. And I did not want them to overhear the conversation. Another time.
During the supper something else happened. My sister asked our mom if she was currently dating a man. Mom said she needs no man anymore. Then my sister asked if she's dating a woman

. Heh. I had imagined the conversation before (the question was prone to come up eventually). But I had imagined to ask this then.

by **bluebambue** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:58 pm UTC

You shouldn't feel bad that you didn't cry more. You mourn your great aunt in you own way.

Spoilered for fashion advice

Spoiler:

by **Shivahn** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:03 pm UTC

Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. This in particular, though, jumped out at me:

Monika wrote:Others seem more affected by her death than me. Everybody cried more intensively and more often. What is wrong with me? I was only able to cry during the sad organ music in the chapel. I guess that is what it is for, being able to center on the sad feelings.

People experience grief differently. There's nothing wrong with you. Please accept that! You're an awesome person and don't doubt that because of how you cried at the funeral.

by **Monika** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:23 pm UTC

Thank you.

by **Boris Veganofsky** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:53 am UTC

I'm late to the party, but all my congratulations go to Aaeriele. All of them.

Monika, there is nothing wrong with you. Grief is a complex process. When my grandmother unexpectedly died I did not cry for a long time, then months later, out of nowhere I felt overwhelmingly sad and frustrated.

I came out as pansexual in meatspace for the first time. My friend's reaction was: *high five* "Me too". <3

by **animeHrmIne** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:24 am UTC

Awesome, Boris! That hasn't quite happened to me yet, the general reaction is usually "What the hell is that" followed by "Oh, cool, whatever".

Also, something I found on Tumblr that seems to be pretty fucking cool.

by **PM 2Ring** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:24 am UTC

* big hugs * for Monika.

Monika wrote:The funeral itself was sad but nice. And during the rest of the time it was like a nice family meeting. Even my mom was there and kinda cheerful and talked to family members, which she usually doesn't do (except to me and my siblings).

Excellent.

Monika wrote:Others seem more affected by her death than me. Everybody cried more intensively and more often. What is wrong with me? I was only able to cry during the sad organ music in the chapel. I guess that is what it is for, being able to center on the sad feelings.

There's nothing wrong with you, Monika. People experience a whole spectrum of feelings at funerals. A lot of the males in my family have a weird tendency to giggle at funerals, but we try to keep it under control so we don't offend others who are in a more sombre mood. I've attended many funerals. Sometimes the mood of sadness is just too intense, but often they are times of re-connection between family members and remembering all the positive qualities of the person who has died. In my experience, the best funerals are ones where there are a number of young children present who are fairly oblivious to it all - they remind us that life goes on.

Thanks for talking about the clothing stuff. It reminds us that people are not born with an innate fashion sense - it's something that has to be learned.

animeHrmIne wrote:Also, something I found on Tumblr that seems to be pretty fucking cool.

Wow!!!

by **natashatasha** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:14 am UTC

*Hugs Monika* There's nothing wrong with you, we all deal with our grief in our own way. You're a beautiful person, and don't deserve how hard you're being on yourself.

On an unrelated note, I finally gave into the chorus of demands from my friends over the past three years to see a counsellor today. She spent the entire time avoiding talking about how I'm a woman, opting for "have you considered that you have Asperger's instead?" Because clearly hating your fucking genitals is a symptom of Asperger's and has nothing to do with gender identity. It wouldn't be so bad if she were suggesting it aswell, but she kept suggesting it instead.

by **Feddlefew** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:47 pm UTC

natashatasha wrote:On an unrelated note, I finally gave into the chorus of demands from my friends over the past three years to see a counsellor today. She spent the entire time avoiding talking about how I'm a woman, opting for "have you considered that you have Asperger's instead?" Because clearly hating your fucking genitals is a symptom of Asperger's and has nothing to do with gender identity. It wouldn't be so bad if she were suggesting it aswell, but she kept suggesting it instead.

From my experience growing up in an area with an abnormal high* preportion of ASD kids, people with (noticable) AS tend to be at least somewhat androgynous and not care about their sex or other people's sex. You should find another counselor.

Edit: I'm not saying that you might not have AS, but that it's definetly not why you want to change your biological sex to match your sex. I'm sorry if that came out wrong, I'm still learning how to talk about transexuality. :oops:

---s
*500x national average, or something. "Don't drink the water in [FEDDLEFEW'S HOMETOWN AND SUROUNDING AREA]!", as the joke goes.

by **Jessica** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:53 pm UTC

Yeah, new counselor time. Do you live in an urban area? If so, you should be able to do a google search for trans or LGBT friendly counselors in your area. If you don't, you may have to drive to find a good counselor.

by **Aaeriele** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:39 pm UTC

Copy-pasting this here for those who aren't on G+ (or who somehow slipped through my setting up the 'Thailand Status' circle):

Spoiler:

Alright, taking a page out of something +Fizz ., +Delirium Sama, and +Dan Boger have reminded me of/demonstrated to me in the recent past, and start this post with:

I'm fine.

Now that I've properly spoiled the ending to avoid any undue worry, we can get on to exactly how yesterday went - which was to say... "interesting." Specifically, I managed to spend a good portion of the day in the ER (after jumping through about 2 other clinics for, in hindsight, no good reason).

To explain a bit more: starting the night before surgery and continuing during the weeks of recovery thereafter in Thailand, I had been on a prescription of Xanax (1mg/day at bedtime) to help me be able to sleep smoothly et cetera. That prescription finished about a day after we returned to the US (by which point I'd been taking it for about 3.5 weeks).

Something to know about Xanax: it is one of the kinds of drugs that your body gradually adjusts to having in its system and thus compensates for - which means that it's also the kind of drug that is best only taken for short periods of time (which, theoretically, <4 weeks was), and gradually tapered back on (so that the body can re-adjust and re-compensate for the lowering presence of the drug).

As a result, when the prescription finished a day or so after we got back, and I essentially stopped taking them cold-turkey... bad stuff happened. Fairly severe withdrawal symptoms all over the place - lightheadedness, nausea, insomnia, gassiness, tiredness, and just generally feeling weak all around.

Didn't initially associate it with going off the Xanax, but after the symptoms persisted for a (rather tortuous) day or two, went digging/thinking about potential causes for how I was feeling and realized the correlation between stopping the prescription and the onset of the OMGPLEASESTOP.

Thankfully, one ER visit later, I now have a small temporary prescription for Ativan (another benzodiazepine, like Xanax) so that I can have something to slowly taper off of, while minimizing the withdrawal effect in the meantime.

While I sort of wish that the solution for withdrawal from a mind-altering drug wasn't "here, take this more different mind-altering drug, at least temporarily," I'm still glad that I now have a clear path to getting things completely fixed and back to a normal state.

And thank you, oh so much, to +Dan Boger for taking the morning (and then eventually, the rest of the day too) off work to get me to the care I needed.

by **natashatasha** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:02 pm UTC

I am in an urban area, but I don't have any money (or a car, and public transport in Canberra is abhorrent) ... at present, I'm seeing the university counsellor, because it's free. I didn't want to go in the first place, and now that I've been I definitely don't want to go and be forced to pay for it.

And hugs for Aeriele.

by **Brace** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:50 pm UTC

I keep losing hair and I can't stand it. I've been on hormones for two years, and at last checkup my levels were perfect. Why am I losing hair? This isn't fucking fair at all. It's kind of my biggest trigger and it keeps getting worse...

by **Vaniver** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:47 pm UTC

Kilroy(ZTC) wrote:I keep losing hair and I can't stand it. I've been on hormones for two years, and at last checkup my levels were perfect. Why am I losing hair? This isn't fucking fair at all. It's kind of my biggest trigger and it keeps getting worse...

Like, genetic baldness losing hair, or something else?

by **Brace** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:43 pm UTC

I...guess... >_>

by **felltir** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:46 pm UTC

(genetic baldness might be a better phrase to use)

by **Feddlefew** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:16 pm UTC

How are your iron levels? I've found that my hair starts falling out when I get anemic.

by **Vaniver** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:17 pm UTC

Edited. That wasn't a term I was familiar with, but it seems to identify the pattern I'm talking about.

Hair loss can happen for a lot of reasons, but odds are high it's a genetic susceptibility to androgens if the corners of your forehead are curving upwards and/or a hole is forming at the back top part of your skull. Management of baldness is a pretty massive industry, and so you should be able to find something that works for you. Rogaine appears to not work by altering hormone levels, and so should be safe (but check with your endocrinologist).

Stress can also increase hair loss, and if you have a few isolated patches you're probably pulling the hair out. Anemia can cause hair loss among other things, and so it may be worthwhile to check out your iron levels.

That is, hair loss can be a sign that something else is wrong- but typically it's just age. There are things you can do to try and make time stand still, which sounds like it's worthwhile for you to try at this point.

by **Zeroignite** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:22 pm UTC

Do not use Rogain. It works by breaking hairs off at the root, so that short regrowing hairs give the illusion of new growth.

by **FreyasSpirit** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:39 pm UTC

I had my first endo appointment today. She was very knowledgeable and has done many trans patients before. She sent me a referral to a therapist because she wants me to get a letter first, but sent me to a specific therapist who she's sent other trans patients to before. I also have lab work ordered to measure my before hormone levels.

The only thing that bothered me was that I thought she wanted me to present as female full time before starting hormones. I may have misinterpreted her saying she wanted me to present as female in front of friends and family at select times as this and I've emailed her to find out. If it turns out I misunderstood, it's great, otherwise, I might get another endo.

by **Zeroignite** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:07 am UTC

FreyasSpirit wrote:I had my first endo appointment today. She was very knowledgeable and has done many trans patients before. She sent me a referral to a therapist because she wants me to get a letter first, but sent me to a specific therapist who she's sent other trans patients to before. I also have lab work ordered to measure my before hormone levels.

The only thing that bothered me was that I thought she wanted me to present as female full time before starting hormones. I may have misinterpreted her saying she wanted me to present as female in front of friends and family at select times as this and I've emailed her to find out. If it turns out I misunderstood, it's great, otherwise, I might get another endo.

Under the just-released new version of the SoC there is no psych therapy minimum before starting HRT.

by **Shivahn** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:18 am UTC

Zeroignite wrote:Do not use Rogain. It works by breaking hairs off at the root, so that short regrowing hairs give the illusion of new growth.

Could you source that? The worst I've seen in terms of proposed mechanisms is "We're not sure."

by **Zeroignite** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:12 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:
Zeroignite wrote:Do not use Rogain. It works by breaking hairs off at the root, so that short regrowing hairs give the illusion of new growth.

Could you source that? The worst I've seen in terms of proposed mechanisms is "We're not sure."

Ah, looks like you're right. Thanks.

by **FreyasSpirit** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:21 am UTC

Zeroignite wrote:
FreyasSpirit wrote:I had my first endo appointment today. She was very knowledgeable and has done many trans patients before. She sent me a referral to a therapist because she wants me to get a letter first, but sent me to a specific therapist who she's sent other trans patients to before. I also have lab work ordered to measure my before hormone levels.

The only thing that bothered me was that I thought she wanted me to present as female full time before starting hormones. I may have misinterpreted her saying she wanted me to present as female in front of friends and family at select times as this and I've emailed her to find out. If it turns out I misunderstood, it's great, otherwise, I might get another endo.
Under the just-released new version of the SoC there is no psych therapy minimum before starting HRT.

I know. But if it's a good therapist, I have no problem with going.

by **poxic** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:58 am UTC

FreyasSpirit wrote:I know. But if it's a good therapist, I have no problem with going.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. _{er, 'scuse the squee}

With a good, compatible therapist, I can be coaxed into talking about *anything*. Productively. Oh so much time/money can be wasted on sessions with crummy therapists, or good therapists that just don't seem to ... resonate? ... with me. I am so bloody fortunate that I found a fella I can work with. I've been seeing him off and on for about 13 years now -- group therapy for 7 years and individual sessions periodically throughout the decade+ (with a couple of years off inna middle).

I've probably paid him enough to buy him a really nice new car in all that time. And he's totally worth it. I like myself so much better now than I did before, and I get along with people better than I used to. Life still bites serious ass sometimes, of course, but I have better ways to deal with it than I used to.

Sorry. I'll stop advertising for good therapy now. But srsly, folks, it works! Well, when it works, that is. Um.

by **Zeroignite** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:04 am UTC

Oh definitely, good therapists are an excellent thing. I just want to avoid you being gatekeeper'd excessively.

by **Aaeriele** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:09 am UTC

poxic wrote:
FreyasSpirit wrote:I know. But if it's a good therapist, I have no problem with going.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS. _{er, 'scuse the squee}

With a good, compatible therapist, I can be coaxed into talking about *anything*. Productively. Oh so much time/money can be wasted on sessions with crummy therapists, or good therapists that just don't seem to ... resonate? ... with me. I am so bloody fortunate that I found a fella I can work with. I've been seeing him off and on for about 13 years now -- group therapy for 7 years and individual sessions periodically throughout the decade+ (with a couple of years off inna middle).

I've probably paid him enough to buy him a really nice new car in all that time. And he's totally worth it. I like myself so much better now than I did before, and I get along with people better than I used to. Life still bites serious ass sometimes, of course, but I have better ways to deal with it than I used to.

Sorry. I'll stop advertising for good therapy now. But srsly, folks, it works! Well, when it works, that is. Um.

Yes, this. I'm really happy with my current therapist; it's really all about finding one that can get that kind of resonance.

by **FreyasSpirit** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:28 am UTC

Zeroignite wrote:Oh definitely, good therapists are an excellent thing. I just want to avoid you being gatekeeper'd excessively.

I have an appointment with a different endo scheduled the week after my therapist appointment. Backup plans are wonderful.

Also, anyone have any tips for what razor to buy to shave your legs? And is it normal to shave your arms or is there another approach there?

by **PM 2Ring** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:17 pm UTC

FreyasSpirit wrote:Also, anyone have any tips for what razor to buy to shave your legs? And is it normal to shave your arms or is there another approach there?

See my post to natashatasha, near the end of the previous page, on the subject of body shaving.

I do shave my arms, but some people don't like to do that, saying it looks unnatural. I guess it depends how dark or coarse your body hair is. Some people like to use an electric trimmer type thing to make the hairs short, and / or use a blonding cream to make them less noticeable.

by **Роберт** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:52 pm UTC

Here's an article by Jennifer Knapp, who was a famous CCM (contemporary Christian Music) artist around 10 years ago. I thought ya'll might like it. The Courage To Speak Out: Reclaiming Queer Faith

by **FreyasSpirit** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:33 pm UTC

Hi FreyasSpirit,

I think if you can start some type of real life experience as a female would be great - so start with selected situations and see how it goes. I usually prefer most patients to have full time real life experience before starting hormone therapy, but the decision is often individual and may depend on the psychological assessment. I hope this helps.

Makes me glad I made an appointment with another endo.

by **Zeroignite** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:03 pm UTC

FreyasSpirit wrote:
Hi FreyasSpirit,

I think if you can start some type of real life experience as a female would be great - so start with selected situations and see how it goes. I usually prefer most patients to have full time real life experience before starting hormone therapy, but the decision is often individual and may depend on the psychological assessment. I hope this helps.
Makes me glad I made an appointment with another endo.

Yup, that one isn't worth your time. Good call

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