xkcd

by **poxic** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:53 am UTC

That's good to hear, but don't let society's stigmatising of depression scare you away from possibly getting treatment that can make a world of difference.

{{{hugs}}}

by **PM 2Ring** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:34 am UTC

sambot5 wrote:Today was actually one of those days where my dark storm cloud was far away, and I could almost see the proverbial sunlight.

Excellent, sambot. * hugs *

Speaking of sunlight, inadequate exposure to actual sunshine can lead to depressive states. If your lifestyle or climate make it difficult to get regular sunshine you might want to consider taking vitamin D3 supplements; I like to take D3 in liquid form as it's a lot cheaper than the capsules.

Being prone to depression sucks, but it doesn't mean that you're broken or a social reject. It's no different to being especially prone to catching colds, except that you're less contagious.

It sounds like you have some good strategies for managing depression on the software level, but such things work best in conjunction with hardware-based strategies. Making sure that you get regular fresh air, sunshine and exercise can make a huge difference. When you've been depressed for a while you've taught your brain to make depression chemicals. A software-based approach can break that cycle, but it's not easy, and modern antidepressants are really very effective at this. They won't turn you into a tranquilized zombie, in fact, you'll barely notice their effect on your consciousness, except that within a couple of weeks you'll realize that you're muc less likely to slip into a depressive train of thought, and that when you do find yourself heading into depressive territory the depressive feelings are much less intense.

I'm not currently taking antidepressants, but I'd certainly go back onto them if things got as bad for me as they were two years ago. Hopefully, that won't happen to me if I continue to practice good mental habits and get enough exercise and sunshine.

by **Black Dynamite** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:57 am UTC

Thanks for sharing, Black Dynamite.

* big hugs *

It can be scary saying this stuff - after all, it is a publicly-accessible forum. And although we're just a bunch of strangers, we can relate to what you're saying, and we want to support you and be your friends.

This thread is getting rather large, but I feel that it's worthwhile reading it from the beginning. It might take a few weeks for you to get through, but I think you'll find it beneficial to read about other peoples' experiences and feelings. And once you've read the thread, you'll know us all a whole lot better.

PS. Have you read my article about dry body shaving, using talcum powder as a lubricant? It's much less irritating than wet shaving, and it's also generally a lot faster.

Thank you

I've read maybe 4/10's of this thread, and reading about everyone's experiences does really help.
I haven't read your article about that. It sounds very helpful. Could you link it to me?

*hugs* for Black Dynamite. If it's any consolation to you, my skin is extremely rough and I am nothing like those other girls you described even though I have the genitalia. You're a girl and from the sound of it, dysphoric about your body. Your girlfriend seems to not understand that. Neither does society or family. I am terribly sorry and if I knew how to "be a girl", I'd tell you but I don't know myself. I can assure you that in all our eyes, you are female solely by virtue of you knowing and stating publicly that you're female. We don't need any further "proof". We're always going to look at you as a girl and refer to you by your correct pronouns.

Thank you. That really means a lot to me.

{{{ Black Dynamite }}} (<-- those are hugs)

Regarding shaving problems: On the body parts you have trouble reaching, try something other than shaving, like Veet or Moom. With Veet, make sure to test it first on a small part and check 24 hours later if you got an allergic reaction.
Also check out permanent hair removal places in your area, e.g. with laser, and how much they cost. Almost all parts of the body can be treated. Think about what you want first, facial hair removal or some other part that gives you more pain right now.

Those hugs make me think of the finger motion for air quotes but more like little crap pincers

Thank you.
I've considered using Nair, but I read all the precautions and instructions on the back and it scares me a ton. Is it effective and worth it? I've read a few things on permanent hair removal as well, and that is what I would love, but I hear procedures like laser and electo-something are expensive and might not be greatly effective. I don't know anymore about the topic other than what google is trying to sell me.

Regarding skin problems: Apparently most trans women get a nicer skin once on estrogen, so don't fret and look forward to this *hugs*

Try to get hormones as soon as possible.
That therapist thing is complicated. I understand you don't want to give your mom problems. Some ideas, see if any of these work: Find out if there are endos in your area who would prescribe you hormones without a letter from a therapist that confirms that you are trans. Or try to get your current therapist to get you to write a letter, even if he does not have a trans-specific education. Also, never worry about overburden your therapist. He is there to help you with issues, not the other way around. If those two things don't work out, think about if you and your mom can pay either for you seeing the therapists in the clinic or for your mom's continuing to see the therapist. If none of those three are an option, consider if you want to take the risks involved in self-medicating.

Oh I really hope so.
Really the issue is the cost for HRT and doctor visits. I don't have any idea about where to go to make an appointment with an Endocrinologist, and how much seeing them would cost. And I also don't know the cost of hormones, or if whatever I may have covers doctor visits and hormones. So my idea was to go to the other therapist office for resources and information and such. The biggest issue besides finances is coming out to my mom.

Feminine clothing: There is a risk that some people will see you as a man in a dress and think this is silly. On the other hand other people will correctly interpret it as your presenting as female and address you as such. Only you can judge if facing people in the first group is worth it for you. Maybe not in your own neighborhood and school, but some place else, trying to walk about looking all femmy in a mall in the next town or so? Could it give you good feelings, even if some people give you strange looks or maybe even stupid comments?

If it's not worth it, consider what else could alleviate your pain while you are waiting for being able to transition hormonally. Wearing femme clothes at home? Wearing feminine underwear, if it's comfortable to wear and you don't have PE in school where boys could see it? Painting your toenails pink? Maybe as an intermediate solution go for an androgynous look or present as what will be perceived as a gay man? E.g. paint your fingernails in a darker color that is also worn by men.

I think once I get over my own fear and build up my self confidence enough to even try to present as female, I will have no problem with it. Generally I have a very 'fuck-the-world' attitude, so once I overcome myself then I can easily deal with what everyone else thinks. I'm afraid I will only see myself as a man in a dress.

I regularly already paint my nails. And my family is just fine with it. No one gives me any problems with it, right now. And I use pretty colors, too.

Black is boring. I also already wear panties exclusively. I've taken precautions to hide this from my family. I love it. Thankfully my PE class is over (though I wore panties in there, too. It was great. :oops:

). I don't know what other girl clothes I could wear regularly. And I don't know how to dress androgynously. I'm having a difficult time making the next leap in the clothing area, I don't know what to do. On an everyday basis I wear very plain and regular clothes, just a pair of jeans and a zipper-less hoodie with no markings on it. All my clothes are brown, black, grey, or grey-blue. But I do wear my favorite scarf, occasionally. It is really frilly with fall colors

and the girliest thing I wear.

Regarding feminine behaviors: Don't worry about this too much. Actually men and women do not behave all that different, it's just interpreted differently. I have read by several trans people that they did not or hardly change their behavior. E.g. Julia Serano writes in "Whipping Girl" that before transitioning her looking around the room in a bar was perceived as a typically male checking out of the people around her, surveying the room and afterwards it was perceived as a typically female way of trying to get people to interact with her, so it resulted in guys hitting on her .
Also, consider that a lot of socialization happens indirectly. Yeah, some boys are told not to cry. Most boys are not told directly, but they witness some other boy being told not to cry or they get this notion from TV or books. So no, you have not missed out on all the supersecret girl socialization. You probably know almost all about it already, mostly subconsciously, just like everybody else.
Very occasionally you may run into situations where your reactions learned by being socialized as a boy might confuse people who then read you as a woman. Less often than what would happen to you if you moved to a different country.

That's very comforting, actually. Thank you.

Telling family is generally the hardest - they've known you all your life so they have strong preconceptions of who you "really" are. And parents may not react well when you shatter the dreams they've had for you since you were a child. Be that as it may, you're the one who has to live your life, and if they truly love you unconditionally they will support you, although it may take them some time to adjust.

This is so true. Coming out scares the crap out of me, but I really need to, cause it's my life dammit.

by **Aaeriele** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:08 am UTC

Regarding the cost of hormones, see my post from a couple of pages ago: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38355&start=5760#p2892855

by **Black Dynamite** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:52 am UTC

Thank you. That cost isn't as worrisome, now. I do hope I've an insurance that will take care of them.

by **PM 2Ring** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:14 am UTC

Black_Dynamite,

Here's a link to my article on rapid body shaving using talc. The article is hiding inside the spoiler.

Hair-removing chemicals like Veet can be very effective, but they are very powerful chemicals and some people's skin react to them. I used to use it on my hands, since they can be tricky to shave, but after a few years my hands decided they didn't like the chemicals any more and I got blood spots the last couple of times I used Veet.

Laser and electrolysis aren't cheap, and they both require multiple sessions over an extended period of time. Electrolysis is permanent; laser can require multiple treatments before all the hair follicles are deactivated; OTOH, laser is (allegedly) a lot less painful than electrolysis. But I'm only going on what I've read, I've never used either of these technologies myself.

by **Shivahn** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:21 am UTC

It's also worth pointing out that laser doesn't work well on different hair/skin combinations. If you've got dark skin (or light hair) it tends to be much more difficult.

by **Cathy** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:56 am UTC

I personally am NOT a fan of chemical hair removers like Nair. Noxious smelling chemicals that make my skin feel tender and burned. Don't even usually get all the hair off.

I get a lot of infections (ingrowns) if I shave regularly so I often walk around with small amounts of leg and underarm hair. I use a beard trimmer for my leg hair when I am avoiding shaving. When it's 1mm long it's not too noticable. My legs and armpits grow hair like crazy so if there's any time I really want to be hair-free for a couple of days (like my upcoming wedding -- don't want razorburn for that!!) I do waxing. I have not been able to successfully wax my own underarms, but legs and tops of arms are easy as pie. It's really not that painful, so I suggest trying it out. Underarms are only $15 at a place near me to be done professional, so that's relatively cheap.

I have perfect skin for laser removal, haha, light white skin and dark brown hair. Someday I'll be rich and ...

by **poxic** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:08 am UTC

Cathy wrote:I get a lot of infections (ingrowns) if I shave regularly so I often walk around with small amounts of leg and underarm hair. I use a beard trimmer for my leg hair when I am avoiding shaving.

I also get constant ingrown hair hell. I had never even considered such a thing as a beard trimmer. You are my new hero.

/as soon as I have the coin to spare
//this comes after the exercise bike, I think

by **Vaniver** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:33 am UTC

Trimmers have two virtues: speed and safety. It's way faster to trim than shave, and it's rather difficult to cut yourself or get ingrown hairs. The end product is significantly different, though- skin with trimmed hair is not going to feel smooth, and wearing fabric on skin with trimmed hair doesn't work as well as wearing it on skin with shaved hair or uncut hair. (Some fabrics work better than others; I hear denim works pretty well but don't have extensive first-hand experience.)

It looks about as good as shaving, though, and so if it's a region that you're not going to wear anything over it's probably a good tradeoff.

by **poxic** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:46 am UTC

Oh, I'm not interested in looking clean-shaven (leg-wise, at least). I've long since given up on that. Thick wiry black leg hair + pale skin = I never, ever look as hairless as the women in magazines. Ever. (Even after waxing, the years of shaving have scarred the surface of every follicle so that my legs will always have little dark dots all over them.)

So I wear trousers, or ankle-length skirts with socks, always. I'm okay with that. It would be nice to have an alternative to the inch-long-leg-hair vs. shave-and-then-suffer battle that I currently fight anytime I go for (e.g.) the annual doctor's visit from hell.

by **Black Dynamite** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:27 am UTC

You are all so helpful. It's awesome, thank you.

I will certainly try shaving with powder next. And when I have the funds I might try some chemical burn-the-hair-away stuff, for my heard to reach places.

I use my electric razor on my chest. It works much better than a razor at getting off all the hair that seems to just grown in whatever direction it feels like. Just have to be careful not to press too hard.

When I first shaved my legs, the first thing I noticed was how cold I was. One doesn't often realize how insulating hair is until it's all gone.

by **PM 2Ring** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:25 am UTC

Cathy & Poxic,
Please try my dry shaving method! I've never got razor burn from it, and it's very rare for me to get an ingrown hair from it, and that generally only happens if I back-shave (i.e., shave against the grain). In contrast, I usually get some razor burn when I wet shave my body and almost always get a couple of ingrowns. FWIW, the woman who taught me this method has very soft skin, and was very prone to razor burn & ingrowns from wet shaving.

You don't need to bathe before dry shaving, but it can help.

I like the idea of using a beard trimmer, especially for the arms, since totally shaved arms can look a bit unnatural. OTOH, it's not that hard when dry shaving to just thin out the hairs rather than shaving them off totally, so I often do that on my arms.

by **Monika** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:29 pm UTC

I use Veet for hair removal. It's smelly, but other than that it's fine (for my skin). I notice though that only a little hair goes off the first time and I need to repeat after 24 hours and than suddenly all the other hairs fall out, too. (They actually recommend against doing it again for the next 3 days, but I got no problems.)

I don't do it very often, mostly before meeting with one of my girlfriends (yep, got two now

) and before summer vacation at the beach with my husband. I wear long pants all the time anyway.

by **Azrael001** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:10 pm UTC

So this last weekend can pretty much be summed up as "Ow, feelings."

That is, I've had a pretty emotional weekend in which my parents reminded me that I don't have to do everything alone, which is good. They are worried that I haven't done my due diligence, and want me to put a hold on the hormones until we check some alternatives (based on shitty childhood from bio-mom, and possible low T). This is understandable, as I've kind of run ahead of them, but still less good.

I talked to them last May about "Strongly considering transitioning" which should have been, "Seeking to start hormones as soon as possible", and I've kind of failed to keep them up to date with what I've been up to. This has caused them some distress. Thankfully, despite being conservatives, they are atheist, Canadian conservatives, and pretty open minded at that. So I'm going to be visiting the dreaded CAMH, though, coupled with my mom's (not bio-mom) education and subsequent career in psychology, along with my dad's incredibly high insight, and bullshit detector, and my warnings of horror stories from the web, we should be fine, (and now I'm picturing us as an adventuring party, how droll).

by **Jessica** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:52 pm UTC

CAMH isn't necessarily as bad as the horror stories have said. At least, not necessarily anymore. I've gone through CAMH, and it was quite easy for me. I've met a number of women who recently have gone through camh and had a good time of it. They are getting better, or at least trying to. I hope your experience isn't one of the bad ones.

There were some anger inducing things on the last page. But, I had written a long blog entry about the word tranny and how I dislike it. Also, the generally most accepted term for transgender people is to shorten transgender/transsexual to just trans and then put a space between trans and the presented sex. So, I am a trans woman.

-----

Edit for blog entry in the queer thread. I should write something about the word queer someday as well.

I hate the word tranny, and I wanted to write about it.

Tranny has many meanings. From the transmission in a car, to a transistor radio, the word was used as slang to a number of words which start with trans-. But those meanings aren't what make me hate the word, they're just distractions. No, we all know why tranny is hated by people like myself. Tranny is one of the most common slang words for transsexual and transgender people. Most trans people consider the word to be pretty offensive, especially when it's used by anyone who is not trans. With good reason, of course. This word brings with it the worst of societies stereotypes about trans people. It's used to isolate trans people, to separate them from "normal" people. It's used to comment on someone's appearance, to say they just look wrong. It's used as a way to talk about trans sex workers and trans porn actors, as a way to minimize us to a single aspect of who we are. When someone says tranny, there is a huge bucket of fucked up meanings which come along with the word.

But, we all know that. Every trans person I know has encountered the word, whether it's used hatefully toward them or not. Celebrities, especially from the Gay and Lesbian community, often use it, whether they mean to hurt trans people or not. They use it to refer to drag queens, or to people who just don't fit. They sling the word out whenever they feel the need to hurt people for their appearance, or for how they don't fit in. The trans community has dealt with it for years now, and we're getting really good at calling people on their shit around this word. No, it's not ok to call your friend a hot tranny mess, even if you mean it endearingly. It isn't ok to talk about trannies when referring to porn, even if that's what ignorant people call porn including trans people. No, it's not ok to talk about trannies as if they are some fictional construct, like you see in movies, and it certainly isn't ok to refer to a trans woman as a tranny, even if she "stole your boyfriend" and you were angry. A lot of people get it, a lot of people ignore it, and still others defend themselves, as if they have some inalienable right to use offensive language without being criticized.

I still hate the word. I hate when it's used with hatred against trans people, and I hate when it's used with ignorance about trans people. I hate how when gay and lesbian people say it, it turns into a big fight between some trans people saying "Uh, please don't say that, it's really not cool" and some of the gay and lesbian community saying that it's ok, because of some new excuse of the week. It happens every time. I hate how there are people who claim to be allies, but who don't actually defend trans people when they slurs are used against them. But, what I hate most is when trans people say tranny, and other trans people get angry.

Honestly, there's a lot more to the argument then just a word. The word is just a convenient proxy for the real argument that's tearing up the trans community. Currently, in the trans community, and especially in the GLBT, and queer community at large, trans masculinity is valued much more than trans femininity. So, there's an element of privilege involved in the interactions between the feminine trans people and the masculine trans people, and part of this privilege is the usage of the word tranny. When a trans masculine person uses the word tranny, in an attempt to reclaim the word, it can harm trans feminine people. But why?

In one sense, the word tranny belongs to all trans people, no matter what gender they identify with. It's used with equal malice against trans men as it is against trans women. If someone is shouting tranny at you, the person who is shouting doesn't care if you look masculine or feminine. If they are keeping trannies out of the locker rooms, they are keeping trans masculine and trans feminine people out. But, in another very real sense, the word tranny is much more damaging to trans women then it is to trans men. Because of the privilege masculinity holds in our society, people who appear masculine are given more slack, they are accepted more readily. As such, trans men are implicitly accepted more than trans women in our culture, because it's acceptable to be masculine but it's not acceptable to be feminine. It's for this reason, that when most people use the word tranny in the abstract, or when talking about pornography, or when talking about how people look terrible and deviant, they are implicitly referring to trans women, not trans men. Consider the number of trans masculine porn sties out there, compared to trans women sites. If someone says you look like a tranny, most often they are saying they look like a woman who looks like a man. Think about the expressions of trans-ness in society. Trans women are mocked, are trying to trick people, are the people whom bear more of the violence, and who are in the spotlight. When a trans man takes back a word which is often used specifically against trans women, there's a problematic power differential there. Trans women are marginalized in queer communities, and ostracized in society as a whole, and are understandably angry when the marginalization continues.

But, that doesn't mean that trans men who use the word tranny are the same as cis people using the word tranny. Trans men are hurt and marginalized by the slur, even if trans women are often marginalized more. It can be empowering to take a slur which has been used against you, and to use it with strength. Also, trans men are not the reason why femininity is minimized. They are just benefiting from it.

I hate the word tranny. It's ugly. It hurts real people, and it exposes the divisions among trans people. If you want to use the word tranny, remember: not everyone has the same experience with the word that you do, and there are still problems attached to it.

Addendum. Not saying people can or can't use the word. Just saying think about it before you do use it. And, I'm saying that I personally really hate the word.

by **Shivahn** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:46 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:I talked to them last May about "Strongly considering transitioning" which should have been, "Seeking to start hormones as soon as possible", and I've kind of failed to keep them up to date with what I've been up to.

I should probably consider keeping people more up to date too.

by **Azrael001** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:14 am UTC

It's incredibly easy to say to yourself, "oh I'll just do it next time I'm down for the weekend." To kick everything off again, I wrote an email, and it took two days after the fact just to hit send.

I still haven't properly thanked you, Jessica, for being the catalyst to getting over my own fear and internalized transphobia, so um, thanks.

by **PM 2Ring** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:58 am UTC

Jessica wrote:
[ lots of important stuff]

It can be empowering to take a slur which has been used against you, and to use it with strength. Also, trans men are not the reason why femininity is minimized. They are just benefiting from it.

I hate the word tranny. It's ugly. It hurts real people, and it exposes the divisions among trans people. If you want to use the word tranny, remember: not everyone has the same experience with the word that you do, and there are still problems attached to it.

Addendum. Not saying people can or can't use the word. Just saying think about it before you do use it. And, I'm saying that I personally really hate the word.

I'll bear that in mind, Jessica.

I normally don't use the term tranny in general conversation, and if someone else does I tend to suggest that trans person (or something similar) is a preferable term. IIRC, I've only ever used the word tranny here once, and that was when referring to myself as a tranny granny (I'm somewhat older than most forumites here).

by **AnnaArmour** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:29 am UTC

Black Dynamite wrote:I don't know what other girl clothes I could wear regularly. And I don't know how to dress androgynously. I'm having a difficult time making the next leap in the clothing area, I don't know what to do. On an everyday basis I wear very plain and regular clothes, just a pair of jeans and a zipper-less hoodie with no markings on it. All my clothes are brown, black, grey, or grey-blue. But I do wear my favorite scarf, occasionally. It is really frilly with fall colors and the girliest thing I wear.

I think the biggest factor in whether clothes are androgynous is fit. Women's clothes tend to be tighter than men's, and tops are usually lower-cut and longer. When I want to look androgynous, I usually go with straight-leg pants, a loose shirt, and a fitted jacket/sweater. Kate Moennig is my style icon

Spoiler:

Here are a few androgynous/genderqueer fashion blogs, if anyone's interested:
The Androgyny Guide
Androstyle
FY Androgyny

by **Cathy** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:13 am UTC

poxic wrote:
Cathy wrote:I get a lot of infections (ingrowns) if I shave regularly so I often walk around with small amounts of leg and underarm hair. I use a beard trimmer for my leg hair when I am avoiding shaving.

I also get constant ingrown hair hell. I had never even considered such a thing as a beard trimmer. You are my new hero.

/as soon as I have the coin to spare

<3 I try. Actually, it was my mom's idea due to teenage underarm incidents with shaving and scary skin happenings. I'm pretty sure you can get one for ~20, it doesn't need to be anything fancy. I got a baseline crummy version at Wal-Mart and it works just fine!

PM 2Ring wrote:Cathy & Poxic,
Please try my dry shaving method! [...]
I like the idea of using a beard trimmer, especially for the arms, since totally shaved arms can look a bit unnatural. OTOH, it's not that hard when dry shaving to just thin out the hairs rather than shaving them off totally, so I often do that on my arms.

I'm definitely going to try it at some point here, thank you for the link! I love the smooth skin feel but HATE the itchy week or so after wet shaving.

by **poxic** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:24 am UTC

PM 2Ring wrote:Please try my dry shaving method!

I read it! I am a bit confused about what the guard rail is.

Is it this?

Spoiler:

by **Aaeriele** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:15 am UTC

Yes, I believe that's what's being referred to, poxic.

by **PM 2Ring** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:31 am UTC

poxic wrote:
PM 2Ring wrote:Please try my dry shaving method!

I read it! I am a bit confused about what the guard rail is.

Is it this?
Spoiler:
razorquestion.jpg

Yes, that's it, poxic. When removing the guard rail don't remove the little guard rail supports at either end of the rail.

You can dry shave without taking off the guard rail, but it's not so effective. With the guard rail on you have to regularly knock the buildup of hair out of the razor and you don't get the same control over the blade angle, so you don't get as close a shave. OTOH, without the rail you do scrape the skin a little bit, but scraping dry skin is much less of an issue than it is with wet skin and so it shouldn't cause razor burn. Still, I sometimes dry shave with the guard rail still attached if I'm doing a quick shave a few days after doing a proper shave without the guard rail.

by **Hyphe** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:23 pm UTC

Re: The conversation on the previous page about bisexual / pansexual / gender binary etc (gosh, I am late to the party, aren't I?) --

I've always considered the 'bi' part of bisexual to refer to 'people who share my gender identity AND people who do not', which seems like a reasonably inclusive definition, I think? Personally, I've never felt entirely comfortable with 'pansexual' because it seems reductive; 'pan' feels like it should mean 'all', and there's an awful lot more to people's physical and mental preferences than just gender (but of course, people may label themselves as they wish, and I'll respect that).

In other news, I suspect my protestations of 'I'm not attracted to men' may be misplaced, since it seems I am working on non-standard definition of the word 'attracted'. Possibly due to the fact that I really, *really* like female bodies, and other feelings sort of pale in comparison. Not that it really matters at all, since my label is still firmly 'queer' and will remain so for the foreseeable future!

by **lysithea** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:05 am UTC

Can anyone personally recommend something to trim the hair on my legs with? I plan to shave after, but I don't want to employ chemical warfare and they are way long right now, too long to shave without trimming. And preferably a trimmer thats fine for normal lazyness shaving, but it doesn't have to be good on faces.

by **PM 2Ring** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:18 am UTC

lysithea wrote: they are way long right now, too long to shave without trimming

There's no such thing as too long to shave, if you use my dry shaving technique with a modified razor.

by **lysithea** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:04 am UTC

There is, trust me. And I really don't want to fuck with talc, as there were some papers published last year showing it having asbestos-like effects in your lungs.

by **RollingHead** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:32 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:<important stuff>

Thanks for clarifying, as a non-native speaker I'm always worried about using the wrong words in sensitive discussions.
About shaving: does anyone else find that using talc dulls the razor blade much faster or am I just doing something wrong?

by **Shro** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:03 pm UTC

poxic wrote:That's good to hear, but don't let society's stigmatising of depression scare you away from possibly getting treatment that can make a world of difference.

{{{hugs}}}

Cross posting from the woman thread for a documentary about Demi Lovato's struggle with self harm, an eating disorder and bipolar disorder and how much treatment has helped her.

by **Jessica** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:58 pm UTC

Stupid feelings. Why do I have to still feel jealous when I look at some people? It's stupid. It's pointless. I supposedly am attractive, and people seem to like how I look, and I have to accept the fact that I probably never will agree. I hate feeling like a "guy in a dress". I hate feeling like a huge ugly mess. It's not true.

Argh. Hate.

by **Shivahn** » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:25 pm UTC

=/

*hugs if you want*

I don't know exactly how you feel, obviously, but I know that feeling. If that makes sense. It doesn't matter if people tell me I look feminine, or if I am super hot as male, or whatever, I still have a lot of trouble feeling like anything other than wrong.

by **Wyvern** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:21 am UTC

I definitely know the feeling Jessica. I'm insecure about how I look - so much that I'm expecting to get called out whenever I'm femme in public. It's aggravating.

I'm not doing well myself. Really suicidal actually. So much so that home has been deemed not a safe enough place to be. So off I go to the hospital, again.

sigh.

~~I have just a few minutes before It's time to go.~~ See you in a week.

by **Jessica** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:18 am UTC

Wyvern wrote:I definitely know the feeling Jessica. I'm insecure about how I look - so much that I'm expecting to get called out whenever I'm femme in public. It's aggravating.

I'm not doing well myself. Really suicidal actually. So much so that home has been deemed not a safe enough place to be. So off I go to the hospital, again.

sigh.

~~I have just a few minutes before It's time to go.~~ See you in a week.

*hugs* for when you return.

by **Shivahn** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:22 am UTC

*hugs*

by **sambot5** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:25 am UTC

Wyvern wrote:I definitely know the feeling Jessica. I'm insecure about how I look - so much that I'm expecting to get called out whenever I'm femme in public. It's aggravating.

I'm not doing well myself. Really suicidal actually. So much so that home has been deemed not a safe enough place to be. So off I go to the hospital, again.

sigh.

~~I have just a few minutes before It's time to go.~~ See you in a week.

Hope everything gets sorted out! We'll all be here for you when you come back. *hugs*

by **poxic** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:26 am UTC

{{{{{Wyvern}}}}} <3<3<3

by **PM 2Ring** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:33 am UTC

lysithea wrote:There is, trust me. And I really don't want to fuck with talc, as there were some papers published last year showing it having asbestos-like effects in your lungs.

FWIW, I've successfully dry-shaved my legs after over a year of not shaving them. It did take a little longer than normal, though.

As for the dangers of talc, I agree that silicosis is not good, but it's not as bad as asbestosis. For one thing, silicosis doesn't appear to be linked to lung cancer. Talc is not dangerous if used sensibly, so don't create big clouds of it and breathe it in on a regular basis. Also, commercially available talcum powder is sifted so that it contains an optimal range of grain sizes, thus it does not contain much ultrafine powder, and it's the ultrafine stuff that can be dangerous. Here's a link to a previous discussion in this thread on the potential dangers of talc.

If anyone wants to try dry shaving but you're worried about talc, you could try using baby powder made from cornflour; it should be available in the supermarket in the same section as the talc-based baby powder, but it is a bit more expensive. I've never used it myself, so I can't vouch for its effectiveness, but going on the texture of cornflour I assume it should work ok.

RollingHead wrote:About shaving: does anyone else find that using talc dulls the razor blade much faster or am I just doing something wrong?

Yes, it does dull the blade fairly quickly, but the kind of razor I use is fairly cheap, and I figure that the time saving and result of dry shaving is worth the cost. I generally use two razors to do my whole body - one for the legs, one for everywhere else; I might use three if I haven't shaved for a long time.

by **Azrael001** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:53 am UTC

Regarding the whole shaving thing. I use one of the Gillette Fusion razors. They seem to work well.

My method is for the incredibly lazy.

Step one: Start having a shower
Step two: Lather with bar of soap
Step three: Shave in direction of hair. Rinse blade. Repeat until mostly gone.
Step four: Shave in opposite direction of hair.
Step five: Flay the flesh from your legs because you've got a million ingrown hairs because you aren't used to shaving them.
Step six: Repeat steps one through five until step five stops being necessary.
Step seven: ???
Step eight: Profit.

by **poxic** » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 am UTC

Heh. That's what I used to do, until I decided "fuck this", more or less.

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