Ginger wrote:Sadistic Humor wrote:My wife was invited to some 'Women's Culture' talks and conferences because she's an active member of the community, but she has declined to go to most since she's left aghast and horrified at how they talk at these talks, how nearly everyone there talks about dominance and oppression and being a 'subwife' because the husbands got jobs, and so forth. Maybe we're in the wrong by thinking personal responsibility has a lot to do with it, but it seems that female oppression exists because people insist that it exists.
Can we stop this nonsense where guys talk about their wives/girlfriends/female friends/random strangers as if that absolves them of all responsibility to stop acting like sexist punks? This stuff is on par with, "I'm not racist/homophobic/ableist/etcetera! I have a friend that happens to fit into one or more of those categories! This totally makes my silly remarks okay."
It's completely acceptable to be horrified by extremist feminism, just like it is for any kind of extremism. The issue is when one assumes *all* feminism is extremist, and I don't think that is at all what he was implying.
but when culture tells women that they should not be good at math, should have a job they can quit for some years to take care of a child, should be in a relationship, should follow their male partner for a job and not move their male partner for their job, and while there still a huge gender gap in salaries between men and women for the same job with the same experience, we should address that sexism in society in addition to addressing personal responsibility.
This culture certainly isn't the one I live in. I've never found anyone who has said I shouldn't be good at math, or IT, or science. I've been sneered at and pitied when I said I wanted to be a housewife, by both men and women. (And don't anyone *dare* say that that is anything more than a free choice. It's not society telling me what to do, it's because I'd be damn good at it.)
The reason why men and women's salaries differ is primarily due to the fact that women don't haggle for more pay, and tend to take part-time jobs and lower-paid career paths. That's a big issue, sure, but I don't think you can point the finger at the Big Bad Patriarchy and say "it's all your fault, stop it!".*
*well, ok, maybe you can, but only partly. Lower-paid careers such as childcare and hairdressing are still lower-paid than similarly skilled jobs, just as construction - and that's almost certainly due to them being traditionally female-biased industries. But I suspect that at least part of the reason we as a culture pay less for those skills is also due to the "women don't haggle so much" problem.