I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby The Scyphozoa » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:22 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
Magnanimous wrote:The whole point of that quote is that it's sort of pointless to label a band (or even a song) as a certain genre, because people have different opinions and genres change. Saying you like psych rock identifies a fairly narrow set of bands, but two psych rock songs can still be really different.

Like, Master of Puppets can kind of be considered rock, specifically hard rock, but it's really more like metal, and it's really really more like thrash metal.

You're not mumpy though, and that still doesn't prove any point. I can use the same logic with accents. The Northeast American accent is very different than the Texan accent. That doesn't mean that "American accent" doesn't describe general trends that define all of the individual accents.

This might be true from the perspective of some people more than others. As an American, I have a perception of a general trend among "British accents". Most Brits would probably disagree, being able to distinguish between the accents of different regions of Britain more easily. Just like I don't consider my (Californian) accent very similar to a Texan one.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby sje46 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:34 am UTC

But as an American, you can still recognize when someone is from the UK, judging entirely from their accent, even if you don't know what specific part of the UK. "British accent" is still a meaningful concept.

Same with musical genres. I Shouldn't Have to Say This.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Mumpy » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:37 am UTC

First of all, I'd just like to point out that I was bullshitting on the internet, I'm sorry for doing that Sje, I'll check in with you beforehand next time so we can avoid all this.

Second of all, I am in no way a supporter of the iron lady. Not an important or relevant point to what's going on here, but I had to get it off my chest.

sje46 wrote:I'm not sure how that's helping your point. It's still pretty dumb to think that music genres don't exist. It's like saying that accents don't exist.

I don't get your analogy. No, seriously. Also, what I said was an explanation of what I was doing, and didn't address any of your points, so of course it wouldn't help. I had hoped that that made it clear I was backing away from discussing this since I thought there was nothing for you to quote back at me. I am sorry for underestimating your tenacity. I'd just like to take this moment to add, clearly, yes there are genres of music.

As for my point, Genres can be confused and blurred and subjective, songs are often difficult to pigeon hole, artists often have a unique-ish sound. So, when you're talking about songs using a genre to describe can be useful, defining a song by its genre on the other hand, isn't. This doesn't seem to be what anyone is arguing against, so hopefully we're all good.

Also, what's all this with the name calling? Instantly insulting folks? Really? I've had no interaction with you on this board, and have previously wondered why people beat down on you so hard from time to time. Why have you gotta ruin what could've been something beautiful? Why Sje?

Ok, it's 4.30am where I am, so I'm off to bed. Sorry if I said anything too stupid for you or dickheadish, I didn't mean it I promise.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:11 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
Mumpy wrote:
sje46 wrote:
Mumpy wrote:There is no such thing as a genre of music, there are individual tracks and artists and there are mixes.

I shouldn't have to say that just because something's a social construct doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course genres exist. Can you speak about genres intelligently? If I tell someone I like 60s psychedelic rock, that provides a lot of information about which bands I am likely to like...even if I haven't heard of them yet!

Woa, calm down. It's a Margaret Thatcher paraphrase.

I'm not sure how that's helping your point.

It was pretty clear to me Mumpy wasn't trying to reinforce their point, but was explaining how they were referencing Thatcher in a jocular manner. The reference was obscure, but being a quote Thatcher was ridiculed for the paraphrase couldn't have been meant seriously.

The quote itself, for completion:

They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby sje46 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:38 am UTC

Mumpy wrote:I'm not sure how that's helping your point. It's still pretty dumb to think that music genres don't exist. It's like saying that accents don't exist.

I don't get your analogy. No, seriously. Also, what I said was an explanation of what I was doing, and didn't address any of your points, so of course it wouldn't help. I had hoped that that made it clear I was backing away from discussing this since I thought there was nothing for you to quote back at me. I am sorry for underestimating your tenacity. I'd just like to take this moment to add, clearly, yes there are genres of music.
[/quote]So that contradicts your first post, right? You said "There is no such thing as a genre of music."
As for my point, Genres can be confused and blurred and subjective, songs are often difficult to pigeon hole, artists often have a unique-ish sound. So, when you're talking about songs using a genre to describe can be useful, defining a song by its genre on the other hand, isn't. This doesn't seem to be what anyone is arguing against, so hopefully we're all good.
I'm fine with that.
Also, what's all this with the name calling? Instantly insulting folks? Really? I've had no interaction with you on this board, and have previously wondered why people beat down on you so hard from time to time. Why have you gotta ruin what could've been something beautiful? Why Sje?

Ok, it's 4.30am where I am, so I'm off to bed. Sorry if I said anything too stupid for you or dickheadish, I didn't mean it I promise.

Hmm. Well I don't think I called you a name, and I said "That's dumb". Since you've made it clear that music genres do exit, then, well, that doesn't change the dumbness of the statement that music genres don't exist. Maybe things are different in the UK, but people don't generally get too upset if I call their argument dumb (depending on the argument, of course). It's basically me just rolling my eyes and saying "come on, man". Kinda like how I react to when people call Democrats and Republicans two sides of the same coin. That's a dumb thing to say!

Maybe you were confused by this:

Can you speak about genres intelligently?
I didn't mean that as a personal attack. I meant that in the cognitivist sense. Is anyone able to speak about "genres" as a coherent concept? Then it exists.


I meant nothing personal. No offense.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Felstaff » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:02 am UTC

It's probably for the best that you append that last line to everything you post ever. It's getting annoying that you manage to single-handedly de-rail nearly every thread you post in, through tangential, unnecessary arguments. Confrontation's fine in moderation, but srsly; check your language. It comes across as confrontational and unnecessary all the time. Telling someone you "think it's dumb" is an insult, Sean. Learn to be civil, think very hard before you press that submit button, and if you think the words you use might infer a tone you did not mean it to imply, don't post.

And for god's sake, don't argue with this. Just take it on board, and learn from it. I shouldn't have to say this.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby theGoldenCalf; » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:25 am UTC

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby OBrien » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:57 am UTC

sje46 and Mumpy wrote:Debate about the "no such thing as a genre of music" thing.

To clarify: Most people in this country hate Thatcher for being one of the worst, most self-centered Prime Ministers of all time and for stating many things that were quite clearly her opinion (and quite clearly wrong) as fact. One such statement is the one she made about there being "no such thing as society" (quite clearly wrong). Mumpy was trying to inject a little humour and political refferance into the debate by editing this quote to "no such thing as a genre of music", something which is obvious to everyone, Mumpy included to be wrong. It was just a joke, it was not his actual opinion. Comprende?
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:05 pm UTC

OBrien wrote:To clarify: Most people in this country hate Thatcher

I wouldn't be so sure about that, I've known many middle-class politics geeks who think she walked on water.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby OBrien » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:14 pm UTC

Hence "most". But really, politics geeks think that? I've met a few people who still tink the Poll Tax was a good idea, but they were mostly the kind of annoying, in-their-own-little-bubble kind of people who preceed all of their political opinions with "My Daddy says"
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:24 pm UTC

Well yeah. From a certain point of view: she put the unions in their place, and she stopped wasting tax-payers money supporting an already-dead manufacturing industry. From another point of view, she took advantage of union leader's foolishness to undermine the unions' effectiveness, and she killed our manufacturing industry.

Oh and there was the Falklands thing which (as far I'm aware, correct me if I'm wrong) was a pretty popular decision from most points of view.

*insert obi-wan-kenobi quote about all things depending on your point of view*
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Felstaff » Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:32 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Well yeah. From a certain point of view: she put the unions in their place

As a 12-year old, I once accidentally pronounced 'unions' the same as 'onions' when reading out loud to the class, and now I just see a misspelled 'onions' whenever I see it, so this phrase tickled me pink.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Oregonaut » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:04 pm UTC

ISHTST: Onions need to learn their place.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:36 pm UTC

........the kitchen?
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:38 pm UTC

IN MAH BELLY
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Vapour » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:39 pm UTC

Next to the cheese inbetween two slices of white bread.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Promicin » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:30 pm UTC

ISHTST: Jesus works at Wal-Mart. He's mexican.

I was ten, we weren't relegious (so I barely knew who Jesus was), and I wasn't very good at Spanish pronunciation. Combine that with an obsession for studying nametags, and I believed the cashier at Wal-Mart was the Jesus everyone wa talking about.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Mumpy » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:43 pm UTC

Thanks guys, that was exactly what I wanted to say. Especially Obrien.

I'll try not to be obscure on the internet from now on.

EDIT: It's ok Sje, I take no offense now I know none was meant. You probably ought to be clearer on that. (So what Felstaff said.)

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby uma » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:19 am UTC

Felstaff wrote:
SlyReaper wrote:Well yeah. From a certain point of view: she put the unions in their place

As a 12-year old, I once accidentally pronounced 'unions' the same as 'onions' when reading out loud to the class, and now I just see a misspelled 'onions' whenever I see it, so this phrase tickled me pink.


As a 12-year old reading out loud in class, I said 'mouth to beak resuscitation' instead of 'mouth to mouth resuscitation', because I'd just seen such an act in a film. It comes into my mind now every time I see the phrase now, and I take care not to say 'beak'.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby TimelordSimone » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:31 am UTC

ISHTST: 2-3 hours is not a reasonable amount of sleep, self.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Levi » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:36 am UTC

I get four :lol:

Now that I look more closely at that smiley, it doesn't really appear to represent its intended emotion. It works pretty well for this post though!

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby TimelordSimone » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:43 am UTC

Well my alarm is set for >3 hours from now.
I genuinely don't know why I'm awake.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby SlyReaper » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:38 am UTC

TimelordSimone wrote:Well my alarm is set for >3 hours from now.
I genuinely don't know why I'm awake.

Yay, insomnia!

(I'm already at work...)
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby emceng » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

mochafairy wrote:ISHTST: Calling a peer a "fucking cunt bitch" is not a way to entice her to share class notes with you, or to help you, or to be nice to you.



I find this hilarious, mostly because I imagined a peer as being one of those British guys in a wig(like peers of the realm or whatever the crap you have). Seriously, crazy guy with mega-wig calling another guy with crazy mega-wig a "fucking cunt bitch" is pure comedy.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:13 pm UTC

My smoke detector shouldn't have to have a sticker on it's back side that says: "Warning, unit does not function without a battery."
I edit my posts a lot and sometimes the words wrong order words appear in sentences get messed up.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Cloud Walker » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:48 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:My smoke detector shouldn't have to have a sticker on it's back side that says: "Warning, unit does not function without a battery."


Well, batteries are usually reserved for portable devices and not things that are attached to your home, which tend to be hooked up to its electricity.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Promicin » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:58 pm UTC

ISHTST: We should be getting to the ones... I've seen when they were.. on new by... soon.

I forgot what I was saying midsentence. And yet I can remember the failed sentence word-for-word. :roll:

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:03 pm UTC

Cloud Walker wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:My smoke detector shouldn't have to have a sticker on it's back side that says: "Warning, unit does not function without a battery."


Well, batteries are usually reserved for portable devices and not things that are attached to your home, which tend to be hooked up to its electricity.


It was on the back on the smoke detector, underneath the battery. As in, you had to remove it from the wall, and unplug the battery to read the sticker.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Thesh » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:07 pm UTC

Cloud Walker wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:My smoke detector shouldn't have to have a sticker on it's back side that says: "Warning, unit does not function without a battery."


Well, batteries are usually reserved for portable devices and not things that are attached to your home, which tend to be hooked up to its electricity.


Many smoke detectors are hardwired into the wall directly as well. Many building codes require hardwired smoke detectors be installed in new houses.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Kang » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:13 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:My smoke detector shouldn't have to have a sticker on it's back side that says: "Warning, unit does not function without a battery."

Mine actually does for a minute or so in which it wails horribly. The point of both is that - at least a local fireman told me so - there are a lot of people who have battery-powered smoke detectors but at one point or another decide that they really quickly need a battery for any other toy and not wanting to go outside and buy a new battery they just cannibalise them from the smoke detectors, consequently not getting warned when they fell asleep smoking in their bed next to the oily rags collection and fireworks stockpile and thus burn to death.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Thesh » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:17 pm UTC

I took the one down near my kitchen because it went off whenever I cooked steak. I eventually had to remove the one in the hallway at the top of the stairs for the same reason. Basically, I'm down to one hardwired smoke detector in my bedroom, which I rarely sleep in.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby phlip » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:23 pm UTC

More smoke alarms need a "this is a false alarm, shut up now" button... maybe even a preemptive "I'm about to cook something smoky, shut down for the next hour or so (but automatically reactivate after that time)".

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby TimelordSimone » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:26 pm UTC

I swear our smoke alarm is set off by steam. I'm so glad there is not actually one in the kitchen, because it would go off all the time.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Thesh » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:27 pm UTC

TimelordSimone wrote:I swear our smoke alarm is set off by steam. I'm so glad there is not actually one in the kitchen, because it would go off all the time.


The one in my bedroom went off because I was taking a shower, so yes I believe that some do get set off by steam.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby jawdisorder » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:32 am UTC

ISHTST: If it's really cold outside walking extremely slow to class will not help. If you walk faster it will not only annoy me less that I can't get around you on the crowded sidewalk, but also keep you warmer and let you get to a warm building faster.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:36 am UTC

jawdisorder wrote:ISHTST: If it's really cold outside walking extremely slow to class will not help. If you walk faster it will not only annoy me less that I can't get around you on the crowded sidewalk, but also keep you warmer and let you get to a warm building faster.

ISHTST: Not everyone is as sensitive to the cold as you are.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby jawdisorder » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:43 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
jawdisorder wrote:ISHTST: If it's really cold outside walking extremely slow to class will not help. If you walk faster it will not only annoy me less that I can't get around you on the crowded sidewalk, but also keep you warmer and let you get to a warm building faster.

ISHTST: Not everyone is as sensitive to the cold as you are.


If I didn't have to listen to them complain about the cold as I was stuck walking behind them that may be the case. This was also last week when the temperature was around -20 with the windchill when I'm fairly sure everyone was cold.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:16 am UTC

jawdisorder wrote:
Giant Speck wrote:
jawdisorder wrote:ISHTST: If it's really cold outside walking extremely slow to class will not help. If you walk faster it will not only annoy me less that I can't get around you on the crowded sidewalk, but also keep you warmer and let you get to a warm building faster.

ISHTST: Not everyone is as sensitive to the cold as you are.


If I didn't have to listen to them complain about the cold as I was stuck walking behind them that may be the case. This was also last week when the temperature was around -20 with the windchill when I'm fairly sure everyone was cold.

Well, you kind of left out that part.
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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby jawdisorder » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:23 am UTC

Yeah, I know, I didn't want to get too long winded.

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Re: I Shouldn't Have To Say This

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:27 am UTC

Yeah, that would have made it colder.
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