The Perfect Murder

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Strychnos
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The Perfect Murder

Postby Strychnos » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:16 am UTC

I was just curious if people had ever heard this before. A friend of mine mentioned stabbing someone with a super-frozen icicle (assuming you were the sadistic, murdering type) and then just letting it melt, destroying all evidence.

Assuming you don't leave any fibers or hairs are there any flaws that I've neglected to consider?

Hopefully I don't inspire anybody..
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Gelsamel
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Postby Gelsamel » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:22 am UTC

I'd have to be someone completely random otherwise you could become a suspect. Also minerals etc. in the water could give a clue to where you got the water from.

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Postby fjafjan » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:24 am UTC

A more clever murder would be just stab someone, then put everything you wore the murder weapon and the body in Kings water (acid...) and then pour the acid into the ocean somewhere.
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Postby Strychnos » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:30 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:I'd have to be someone completely random otherwise you could become a suspect. Also minerals etc. in the water could give a clue to where you got the water from.

True, you could become a suspect, but if they have no evidence other than you knew the victim, they couldn't hold you on anything.

So they trace the water and find what.. a single reservoir or pumping facility? I seriously doubt they could trace it to a specific pipeline, but who knows.

fjafjan wrote:A more clever murder would be just stab someone, then put everything you wore the murder weapon and the body in Kings water (acid...) and then pour the acid into the ocean somewhere.

What's Kings water?
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Gelsamel
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Postby Gelsamel » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:46 am UTC

Strychnos wrote:What's Kings water?


Not sure about kings water but HF should do the job.

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Postby Air Gear » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:04 am UTC

I've heard of freezing somebody really well then running the body through a wood chipper...if ya did that, the acid would work a LOT more quickly. Or you could just pulverize the chips into dust or something.

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Postby fjafjan » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:17 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:
Strychnos wrote:What's Kings water?


Not sure about kings water but HF should do the job.


Err, i think it is a 3:1 mix of Patasium acid (1)and ... whatever you call "H2SO4"

The mix that can corrose gold if i am not incorrect.

lemme wiki...

Apparantly called Aquare Regia (which makes sence...)

But yeah. Not much evidence left after that if you don't leave anything on the crime scene (just corrose it aswell)
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Postby svk1325 » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:28 am UTC

fjafjan wrote:Err, i think it is a 3:1 mix of Patasium acid (1)and ... whatever you call "H2SO4"


H2SO4 is Sulfuric Acid. Very corossive.

fjafjan wrote:A more clever murder would be just stab someone, then put everything you wore the murder weapon and the body in Kings water (acid...) and then pour the acid into the ocean somewhere.


The Kings water might not completely dissolve the evidence, but it would be good enough. If you are careful about where you dump it, it should disperse it enough for it to be un-recoverable. (I'm starting to sound like a murder aren't I?)

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Re: The Perfect Murder

Postby hermaj » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:30 am UTC

Strychnos wrote:I was just curious if people had ever heard this before. A friend of mine mentioned stabbing someone with a super-frozen icicle (assuming you were the sadistic, murdering type) and then just letting it melt, destroying all evidence.


Am I wrong, or did Mythbusters do something similar with an "undetectable bullet"? I recall them testing bullets made of ice, made of salami (of all things...) and stuff like that, but I haven't seen it in ages. Of course there are a lot of functional differences between a bullet and a stabbing weapon - like, I remember they thought an ice bullet would be undetectable, but they weren't able to fire it without it melting.

Gelsamel wrote:Also minerals etc. in the water could give a clue to where you got the water from.


Wouldn't the water then evaporate, though? So by the time the fatality was actually being investigated, how much water would there be to analyse?

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Postby Air Gear » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:44 am UTC

A bullet made of salami? Damn. I wouldn't care about something being "the perfect murder"...if I wanted to kill somebody and wanted people to know about it, I'd do something like that. You know, just so it's interesting.

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Postby Strychnos » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:49 am UTC

I'd be pissed if I got shot with a salami bullet and lived.

That shit's degrading.
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Postby Ephphatha » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:26 am UTC

The ice bullets were melted before leaving the barrel IIRC. I'm not sure if they had more success with meat bullets, but I wouldn't be leaving that to chance.
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Postby myoumyouou » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:29 am UTC

going back to the icicle idea, the only flaw as Gelsamel said, would be the minerals in the water, otherwise rather flawless, i guess if you got perfectly distilled water, (ie pure h2o) then i cannot see any flaw in teh plan, except, well its murder, and its much more satisfying to push someone into traffic
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Postby Verysillyman » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:39 am UTC

use water from their own taps.

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Postby VannA » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:31 pm UTC

...

Why all the subterfuge? Give them a heart attack, or start a spiders nest.. or shoot them with a decent sniper rifle from 1000 metres away.
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Postby Gelsamel » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:42 pm UTC

So they can triangulate your position from the hole in the window? Hell no!


Replace their H2O with H2SO4, Johnny made the mistake so who else wouldn't.

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Postby no-genius » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:08 pm UTC

Air Gear wrote:I've heard of freezing somebody really well then running the body through a wood chipper...if ya did that, the acid would work a LOT more quickly. Or you could just pulverize the chips into dust or something.


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Postby no-genius » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:11 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Johnny made the mistake so who else wouldn't.


poor johnny. alas he is no more :cry:
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Postby fjafjan » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:03 pm UTC

no-genius wrote:
Air Gear wrote:I've heard of freezing somebody really well then running the body through a wood chipper...if ya did that, the acid would work a LOT more quickly. Or you could just pulverize the chips into dust or something.


Fargo?


Is that your friend in the wood chipper over there?
//Yepp, THE fjafjan (who's THE fjafjan?)
Liza wrote:Fjafjan, your hair is so lovely that I want to go to Sweden, collect the bit you cut off in your latest haircut and keep it in my room, and smell it. And eventually use it to complete my shrine dedicated to you.

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Postby Frankeinstein » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:30 pm UTC

There are other things to consider besides the murder weapon. With a weapon like that the case would get a lot of publicity. If you've just murdered someone publicity is bad. There's always someone who heard or saw something suspicious.

Perfect murder would be a murder that didn't look like one. Climbing "accident" comes to mind.

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Postby Hamorad » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:29 pm UTC

Hire a hitman!

Much easier; if they're good, they'll never be caught and you'll be on your way with revenge exacted!

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Postby Air Gear » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:45 pm UTC

There might be all the arguments for going to some normal sort of murder just so you don't get caught, but...since when would that be as much fun? Seriously, the icicle would just be an interesting way for it to happen. Salami bullets...man, that would be something to read about in the paper the next day. Hell, EVERYBODY would hear about THAT one. So yes, not getting caught is one thing, but something which leads to a story somehow is also a necessity.

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Postby ulnevets » Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:51 pm UTC

acid icicle: destroys ALL evidence, even the body

EDIT: ok, you hollow out a bullet and fill it up with frozen acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroantimonic_acid). when you fire the bullet, heat is transferred and the frozen acid melts, dissolving the bullet's outer shell just as it leaves the barrel. this blob of acid then flies toward the victim at bullet-speed and eats away the victim's flesh upon impact. any skin cells, hairs, or anything of that sort left on the bullet will be disintegrated. the bullet itself will be destroyed. the body will be so horribly disfigured as to be unrecognizable. the perfect murder.

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Postby Peshmerga » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:19 am UTC

ulnevets wrote:acid icicle: destroys ALL evidence, even the body

EDIT: ok, you hollow out a bullet and fill it up with frozen acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroantimonic_acid). when you fire the bullet, heat is transferred and the frozen acid melts, dissolving the bullet's outer shell just as it leaves the barrel. this blob of acid then flies toward the victim at bullet-speed and eats away the victim's flesh upon impact. any skin cells, hairs, or anything of that sort left on the bullet will be disintegrated. the bullet itself will be destroyed. the body will be so horribly disfigured as to be unrecognizable. the perfect murder.


They recognize the cause of death, trace it back to wherever the bullet is produced, get your credit card # among thousands of other pieces of information about the murderer, and eventually back to you.

The perfect murder is a murder you don't commit. Like someone else suggested; make it look like an accident. People die all the time in various odd ways.
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Postby thomasjmaccoll » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:49 am UTC

CUT THEIR HEAD OFF WITH A BIG KNIFE
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Postby SpitValve » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:32 am UTC

Redirect a meteor.

Nobody would suspect it was the goldfish!

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Postby Narsil » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:56 am UTC

You know, I think about things like this all day. Really. Does that make me creepy? I can't think of any reasons it wouldn't work either, but you would have to wear gloves that wouldn't rub off any sort of fiber or chemical.

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Postby rachel » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:03 am UTC

I have already planned out how I would murder someone. I am probably not ever going to tell anyone else, because then people would know. Then I would have to kill them and it is much easier to pin that one back on me since they will have been people i knew.

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Postby Peshmerga » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:10 am UTC

rachel wrote:I have already planned out how I would murder someone. I am probably not ever going to tell anyone else, because then people would know. Then I would have to kill them and it is much easier to pin that one back on me since they will have been people i knew.


My ex tells me all about how, that if she had to, she could cover it up perfectly because she's going into forensic sciences, and she'd... well whatever, she's funny to listen to.
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Re: The Perfect Murder

Postby rlo » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:03 am UTC

Strychnos wrote:I was just curious if people had ever heard this before. A friend of mine mentioned stabbing someone with a super-frozen icicle (assuming you were the sadistic, murdering type) and then just letting it melt, destroying all evidence. Assuming you don't leave any fibers or hairs are there any flaws that I've neglected to consider?

Strychnos, the question seems illogical on its face. You've provided two criteria: a) a disappearing weapon and b) no fibers or hairs. How many murders are solved despite a missing weapon or no fibers/hairs? An extremely small percentage. I'm not into mysteries myself, but off the top of my head, I can think of a bunch of other ways mysteries are solved: fingerprints near the body; witnesses; footprints; tire tracks, blood stains on your clothing...

I mean, there wouldn't be so many mysteries published if the things you mention were all there were to it. And how is a frozen icicle any different from stabbing someone with a knife and then leaving, taking the knife with you?

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Re: The Perfect Murder

Postby Gelsamel » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:21 am UTC

rlo wrote:
Strychnos wrote:I was just curious if people had ever heard this before. A friend of mine mentioned stabbing someone with a super-frozen icicle (assuming you were the sadistic, murdering type) and then just letting it melt, destroying all evidence. Assuming you don't leave any fibers or hairs are there any flaws that I've neglected to consider?

Strychnos, the question seems illogical on its face. You've provided two criteria: a) a disappearing weapon and b) no fibers or hairs. How many murders are solved despite a missing weapon or no fibers/hairs? An extremely small percentage. I'm not into mysteries myself, but off the top of my head, I can think of a bunch of other ways mysteries are solved: fingerprints near the body; witnesses; footprints; tire tracks, blood stains on your clothing...

I mean, there wouldn't be so many mysteries published if the things you mention were all there were to it. And how is a frozen icicle any different from stabbing someone with a knife and then leaving, taking the knife with you?


:o.....:x

I can't believe you said that about icicle! Comparing an icicle to a knife, how barbaric.

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Postby Verysillyman » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:14 am UTC

My plan to get away with murder would be to leave heaps of obvious evidence that i did it, (deep shoe prints, a lock of hair, the murder weapon with my name on it, etc) or maybe slightly subtle, but so it looks like a set-up. Then I'd plant a few tiny pieces of evidence (a partial thumbprint and a single hair) that point to someone else.

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Postby fjafjan » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:48 pm UTC

Verysillyman, that is so devious it JUST MIGHT.. not work ... :D

Nice idea though :D

Im telling yo sulphuric acid all the way.

Someone goes missing, but no body, no murder weapon, no crime scene. No way in hell you can prove that beyond reasonable doubt.
The only difficult part would be getting the acid, but whatever, just be a chemistry teacher or something :D
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Postby Frankeinstein » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:37 pm UTC

Instead of using a icicle maybe you could use a popsicle. That way the coroner couldn't resist eating it or licking the sweet juice thus ruining the evidence!

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Postby Frankeinstein » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:40 pm UTC

No not that either! Now I've got it! The perfect murder would be dropping a grand piano on someone, no one would investigate it because it would seem like a comedy! INGENIUS!

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Postby Pathway » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:13 am UTC

Narsil wrote:You know, I think about things like this all day. Really. Does that make me creepy?


We need a word for questions that contain their own answer.

As far as my perfect murder idea, I've always thought it would be best just to hack them up with an axe, drag their corpse out to the woods, bury it, and when the police arrive... just stonewall.

On a more serious note, I'd have to say you guys are thinking too hard. The trick is just to subvert the entire social framework in which you operate, such that when you turn to your dark work, you are not condemned, but rather are aided in your efforts.

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Postby Linoc » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:01 am UTC

the perfect murder would be to convince someone to commit suicide and to leave no trace:P

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Postby Ushanka » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:08 am UTC

The best way to get rid of a body quickly would be a volcano. That's all there is to it. Full-on incineration in moments.

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Postby Gemini25RB » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:08 am UTC

I actually think there was an episode of CSI (or some other pseudo-police show) about a murderer using icicles or daggers made of ice about 4 years ago. Unfortunately, I cannot find out when it was (curse my lack of amazing 'googling' skillz!).

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Postby Frankeinstein » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:27 am UTC

Pathway wrote:As far as my perfect murder idea, I've always thought it would be best just to hack them up with an axe, drag their corpse out to the woods, bury it, and when the police arrive... just stonewall.

I still think it would be better if the police didn't arrive at all.


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