Poll for Government Class

Things that don't belong anywhere else. (Check first).

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Do you approve of gay marriage?

Poll ended at Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:55 pm UTC

Yes.
57
93%
No.
2
3%
Undecided.
2
3%
 
Total votes: 61

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Gears
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Poll for Government Class

Postby Gears » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:55 pm UTC

I need a poll for my Honor's Government class from the good people of XKCD.
General_Norris wrote:I notice a lack of counter-arguments and a lot of fisting.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Gears » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:44 am UTC

I knew this would be the results, just needed to have the actual poll.
General_Norris wrote:I notice a lack of counter-arguments and a lot of fisting.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:56 am UTC

Where's AvalonXQ when you need him?
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby vslayer » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:44 am UTC

This poll makes me markedly more optimistic about the future of humanity.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Shivahn » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:22 am UTC

vslayer wrote:This poll makes me markedly more optimistic about the future of humanity.


Not to burst your bubble, but this is about the last place you'd want to check for a representative sample of America on social or scientific issues.

Though the trends do appear to favor this pretty strongly.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby lulzfish » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:07 am UTC

Don't want this joke to spoil the poll results:
Spoiler:
Conclusion: xkcd fora are full of people who support gay marriage.
Now, if you'll bear with me for a moment...

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby HiddenCounter » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:14 am UTC

At the risk of sounding like a jackass.

I do not disapprove of gay marriage. I believe marriage is sacred between a man and a woman. I am not religious. I think they should have a civil union, with all the same rights.


I am ready for the flame-a-pults.
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby poxic » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:21 am UTC

Just curious: why? What makes you believe the bit about "sacred between a man and a woman"? Gut feelings, facts, some combination?
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Shivahn » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:37 am UTC

I find the use of "not religious" and "sacred" next to each other bizarre and frightening.

Well, not really. But it is sort of strange, since it's hard to decouple the religious connotations of "sacred."

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Gears » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:46 am UTC

HiddenCounter wrote:At the risk of sounding like a jackass.
I do not disapprove of gay marriage. I believe marriage is sacred between a man and a woman. I am not religious. I think they should have a civil union, with all the same rights.
I am ready for the flame-a-pults.
I pretty much agree with this, giving gays the same rights, but calling it civil union is ok by me as I consider marriage a religous institution, and it should be up to religion to say what is "marriage" and what is not. I also think straight marriage should be called a civil union unless a church endorses it.
Edit: However don't turn this into a debate please.
General_Norris wrote:I notice a lack of counter-arguments and a lot of fisting.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:30 pm UTC

Results are hardly surprising for this forum, in fact I'm surprised to see as many as two people against it. About calling it civil union, what's the difference? If it has the same legal status as marriage, what's the point in insisting on calling it something different? Marriage is NOT a solely religious thing. It may have started out that way, but since there are plenty of atheist married couples, it doesn't seem to be that way any more.
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby AJR » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:31 pm UTC

I'm intrigued as to what you're using this poll for. The responses will be from an international, self-selecting group from a web forum which, as Shivahn has pointed, is decidedly non-representative of the general public.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Zapheod » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

I don't think the government should have any hand in marriage as it is a religious institution. I think either everyone gets Marriage or everyone gets Civil unions.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:28 pm UTC

Zapheod wrote:I don't think the government should have any hand in marriage as it is a religious institution. I think either everyone gets Marriage or everyone gets Civil unions.


Read my previous post. Marriage stopped being a religious thing a long time ago.
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Osha » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:55 pm UTC

To those people saying we should decouple marriage from the government, that marriage is inherently between a man and a woman, and that we should keep it religious, decouple it from government, and have the government give people civil unions instead.

1) This makes a mighty fine excuse to sit back, not fight towards equal civil unions, and let gay people keep getting treated like shit for the indeterminate future.

2) There'll be tons of religious organizations willing to grant gay marriages afterwards.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Gears » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:44 pm UTC

AJR wrote:I'm intrigued as to what you're using this poll for. The responses will be from an international, self-selecting group from a web forum which, as Shivahn has pointed, is decidedly non-representative of the general public.
I hoped it would be more diverse, although I knew it wouldn't be. I used a different poll.
General_Norris wrote:I notice a lack of counter-arguments and a lot of fisting.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby sophyturtle » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:10 pm UTC

Wait, you are not using data because you don't like it? After you decided to collect it because the sample had been acceptable? Until you found out it disagrees with you?


Really?




Science does not work that way!
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Zapheod » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:03 pm UTC

Osha wrote:To those people saying we should decouple marriage from the government, that marriage is inherently between a man and a woman, and that we should keep it religious, decouple it from government, and have the government give people civil unions instead.

1) This makes a mighty fine excuse to sit back, not fight towards equal civil unions, and let gay people keep getting treated like shit for the indeterminate future.

2) There'll be tons of religious organizations willing to grant gay marriages afterwards.


Alot of assumptions here...

What makes you think that people who believe that Marriage is religious and the goverment should get out of it are doing so because they want to let gay peoples' rights get trampled? Have you ever thought that maybe some of them want government and religion kept seperate to keep people from trying to legislate their beliefs? Maybe we are worried that the government being involved with marriage helps make people feel okay to try and get ID into science books or try to keep anything gay out of school libraries.

I want a complete seperation of church and state so that the religious majority cannot inflict itself upon the rest of us. I don't want the United States to end up with a Theocratic government.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:10 pm UTC

Zapheod wrote:What makes you think that people who believe that Marriage is religious and the goverment should get out of it are doing so because they want to let gay peoples' rights get trampled?

Considering that Osha said nothing like this, calling it an "assumption" is pretty silly.
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Osha » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:13 pm UTC

Ah sorry, my post was worded horribly.
I know there are plenty of people who want to decouple marriage from the government and also aren't content with the status quo

But I've also seen religious people who think gay marriage is wrong (not all religious people) say "Gays getting discriminated against is horrible, let's move marriage out of the government so we can have our marriage and they can have their civil unions and everyone's happy" and then proceeding to not vote for gay marriage, and not actively work towards actually changing any of this. People who are for rights for gay people in their ideal world, while working against them in practice.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby Gears » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:46 am UTC

sophyturtle wrote:Wait, you are not using data because you don't like it? After you decided to collect it because the sample had been acceptable? Until you found out it disagrees with you?
Really?
Science does not work that way!
I tried it again polling random people at the store. I got 20 for and 8 against. Surprised me.
General_Norris wrote:I notice a lack of counter-arguments and a lot of fisting.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby MrGee » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:28 am UTC

Gears wrote:
sophyturtle wrote:Wait, you are not using data because you don't like it? After you decided to collect it because the sample had been acceptable? Until you found out it disagrees with you?
Really?
Science does not work that way!
I tried it again polling random people at the store. I got 20 for and 8 against. Surprised me.


Classic pollster problem. People hate gay marriage but they won't admit it in public. You will get better results asking something like "Do you think America is ready for gay marriage?"

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby poxic » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:36 am UTC

That's also tricky, though. I'm for gay marriage but I'd be hard pressed to answer that question. Parts of America are "ready for" gay marriage, sure, but some parts aren't, I think. The country as a whole? I just can't say.

/Canada hasn't plunged into Hell just yet, though we're somewhat to the left of the US, so again, I dunno
//in fact, shortly after gay marriage was legalised here, a poll suggested (and experience has confirmed) that social conservatives don't care enough to reopen the question
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby MrGee » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:50 am UTC

poxic wrote:That's also tricky, though. I'm for gay marriage but I'd be hard pressed to answer that question. Parts of America are "ready for" gay marriage, sure, but some parts aren't, I think. The country as a whole? I just can't say.

/Canada hasn't plunged into Hell just yet, though we're somewhat to the left of the US, so again, I dunno
//in fact, shortly after gay marriage was legalised here, a poll suggested (and experience has confirmed) that social conservatives don't care enough to reopen the question


It does work better. Does it work WELL? Probably not. I hate polls personally. Way too many sources of error.

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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby diamonds » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:19 am UTC

And polls, especially ones like this, make it easy to misrepresent opinions. Simple wording changes can change the answer you get, because, well, you are asking a different question. You also have to deal with ambiguous answers: I'm against all government marriages, where does that put me? The poll says nothing about the type of marriage being preformed (religious, informal, co-ownership contract, state/government, all of the above, etc).
Growing the state bureaucracy so gays can get their state marriage licenses seems like a giant leap in the wrong direction.
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Re: Poll for Government Class

Postby GoodRudeFun » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:45 am UTC

In my opinion "civil unions" are just a polite way of saying separate but equal. Marriage is already ingrained in our society, it is no longer a purely religious entity. I would actually have to question even the idea that it was at one point purely religious or even the idea that it started out that way.

Like it or not, marriage is not a religious institution, or people of differing religions, or no religion at all, would not get married.


How is this supposed to work any ways? I'm asking those who want to keep marriage AND civil unions, not the all or nothing folks. Isn't it basically the state deciding what churches can do? "oh, gays can't get married, they can get civil unions. marriage is a religious institution. Oh, but we'll keep hanging out marriage licenses to straight people, because that totally makes sense!"
Oh. Well that's alright then.


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