Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Overdosed on Apathy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:29 pm UTC

There is this commercial that always comes on the radio for a local bail/bond place that ALWAYS pisses me off, every time I hear it. It goes a little like this:

"This is AMERICA, home of the free! We love liberty so much, we built a bell and a giant copper lady to prove it!"

I seriously want to hit someone whenever this commercial comes on the radio. Are we really that dumb?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:34 pm UTC

Built, given as a gift from the "cheese-eating surrender monkeys"... same difference, right?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:39 pm UTC

<ribbit>
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Thurid » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:27 pm UTC

New Sprint commercials, for the everything plan or whatever, with the girl breaking up with her boyfriend and the doctor telling the football player hes out for the season. Why would I want to use Sprint if it make me a douche?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:39 pm UTC

I hate to break it to you, but you don't need to worry about Sprint making you a douche.

</kidding>

I just saw a HEAD ON! commercial, I thought those stopped a while ago.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby pseudoidiot » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:48 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:I just saw a HEAD ON! commercial, I thought those stopped a while ago.
I just saw a HEAD ON! commercial, I thought those stopped a while ago.
I just saw a HEAD ON! commercial, I thought those stopped a while ago.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Whelan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:52 pm UTC

Are those the ones that you're meant not to apply anywhere directly?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:54 pm UTC

I'm told that they are the commercials that cause headaches.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Poochy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:01 pm UTC

So it's an election year in the US, and it's quite obvious due to the sleazy attack ads which have already started to air, over two months before the actual election.

And I simply must ask, why are there so many politicians who seem to act like taxes are the worst thing to ever plague a government system? Seriously, if you try to slam your opponent for wanting to higher taxes than yourself without even trying to make any kind of a case that taxes are too high, it just makes you look like an idiot and your opponent look so clean that you can't even dig up any other dirt on them. So I'm inclined to vote for the guy you're trying to bash now.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby meatyochre » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:06 pm UTC

Poochy wrote:So it's an election year in the US, and it's quite obvious due to the sleazy attack ads which have already started to air, over two months before the actual election.

And I simply must ask, why are there so many politicians who seem to act like taxes are the worst thing to ever plague a government system? Seriously, if you try to slam your opponent for wanting to higher taxes than yourself without even trying to make any kind of a case that taxes are too high, it just makes you look like an idiot and your opponent look so clean that you can't even dig up any other dirt on them. So I'm inclined to vote for the guy you're trying to bash now.

Most people don't analyze things as much as you just did. Higher individual taxes is generally something that people would prefer to avoid. So, knowing nothing else about 2 candidates, the average person is more likely to vote for the one that ends up putting more money in their pocket every paycheck. If all they ever see is that one commercial, then there's a decent chance it will influence their vote. That's why those commercials are made.

Politicians grub for votes however they can--this isn't new or shocking (though it does still suck, of course). If they lose an election, they might actually have to work for a living! gasp! (sarcasm. I'm sure politicking isn't quite that easy of a job--but you get my point I hope!)
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Poochy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:29 pm UTC

meatyochre wrote:So, knowing nothing else about 2 candidates, the average person is more likely to vote for the one that ends up putting more money in their pocket every paycheck. If all they ever see is that one commercial, then there's a decent chance it will influence their vote. That's why those commercials are made.

Yeah, I know that. I'm complaining that, in keeping with the theme of the thread, such commercials are a dirty, sleazy tactic, and politicians who make them are worthless scum.

Pyramid schemes and other scams advertising themselves as "public announcements" trying to look like PSAs are made because they influence people to pour their money into the scam, too. I can understand why they're being made, I'm just annoyed 'cause I find them highly unethical.

(Actually, for that matter, politicians in general are sleazy worthless scum. The process basically favors the guy with the loosest morals; therefore, to paraphrase Douglas Adams, anybody capable of getting themselves elected to office should on no account be allowed to do the job.)
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Whelan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:15 pm UTC

I thought your last election was '08? You're surely not due another one just yet are you?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby kernelpanic » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:33 pm UTC

Whelan wrote:I thought your last election was '08? You're surely not due another one just yet are you?

Yup. midterm elections.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby meatyochre » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:34 pm UTC

Whelan wrote:I thought your last election was '08? You're surely not due another one just yet are you?

Not for the president yet. But for other stuff yeah!
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:29 am UTC

Whelan wrote:I thought your last election was '08? You're surely not due another one just yet are you?
Elections on the national scale are every two years. The House of Representatives all operate on a 2 Year Term, and Senators operate on a 6 year, with 1/3rd of them being up for re-election during every election cycle.*

Then there's the state governments which usually operate on a similar scale (Representatives 2yr, Senators 6yr) but probably not all of them.. I haven't looked in to it, just making a guestimation based on there being 50 state governments that are all different in their own quirky ways. Anyway, with the Fed and State out of the way, then there's local stuff that could possibly also be going on - judges, city council members, that sort of thing. While in my po-dunk hometown, any local candidate pretty much did radio ads (if that) on the local station and primarily used signs and newspaper ads, in your larger markets (like Louisville, for example) it's not unheard of for the local candidate to have ads on the TeeVee.

I assume that in NYC and such, that's pretty common, meaning during a presidential election year, most New Yorkers probably don't see actual commercials anymore.



*This is not precisely true, as there are 100 senators, so in one of those six year periods, there's 34 up for election, while in the other two there's only 33, so you have slightly less than 1/3 twice inna row, then slightly more than 1/3rd. Because you can't cut a Senator into three pieces - no matter how much you may want to.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:35 pm UTC

>.>

<.<

Strom Thurmond seems to be coming up a lot lately.

Maybe he's coming back...
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

He is my go-to guy for Classic Cartoon/Comic Book Villainy in American Politics. The latest crop of politicians, while good, still reek a bit much of Bebop and Rocksteady - good villains, sure, but not leader material. Far too bumbling.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:58 pm UTC

We need another Nixon. Now that man was Lex Luthor material, if only he could have been less obvious about it.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby emceng » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:47 pm UTC

meatyochre wrote:
Poochy wrote:So it's an election year in the US, and it's quite obvious due to the sleazy attack ads which have already started to air, over two months before the actual election.

And I simply must ask, why are there so many politicians who seem to act like taxes are the worst thing to ever plague a government system? Seriously, if you try to slam your opponent for wanting to higher taxes than yourself without even trying to make any kind of a case that taxes are too high, it just makes you look like an idiot and your opponent look so clean that you can't even dig up any other dirt on them. So I'm inclined to vote for the guy you're trying to bash now.

Most people don't analyze things as much as you just did. Higher individual taxes is generally something that people would prefer to avoid. So, knowing nothing else about 2 candidates, the average person is more likely to vote for the one that ends up putting more money in their pocket every paycheck. If all they ever see is that one commercial, then there's a decent chance it will influence their vote. That's why those commercials are made.

Politicians grub for votes however they can--this isn't new or shocking (though it does still suck, of course). If they lose an election, they might actually have to work for a living! gasp! (sarcasm. I'm sure politicking isn't quite that easy of a job--but you get my point I hope!)



That's one thing that drives me crazy about politics. Most people seem to vote based on 2 things - the economy(or more accurately, if they are personally doing well) and whatever the latest kerfluffle on the cable news stations. It seems like most people don't give a damn if the whole country went down the crapper, as long as they have $.03 more in their paycheck each month. People don't vote based on principles, they vote based on personal finances - and politicians know this. Why do you think there is so much pork spending? I know people are smart enough to see they don't need to build a bridge to nowhere - but that bridge would pump a few million into the local economy.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:52 pm UTC

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:59 pm UTC

Is it in Oregon? No? It's a complete waste of money.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby The Scyphozoa » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:55 pm UTC

I agree.

I don't even live in Oregon, but you are completely right.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby emceng » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:36 pm UTC



I'm too lazy to look it up, but wasn't there a ferry that ran between the mainland and island? And it ran every half hour or hour? And considering the population density of Alaska, why the crap wasn't the ferry good enough?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:39 pm UTC

Because it wasn't in Oregon.

Duh.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby philsov » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:44 pm UTC

How in the world does someone make the connection between "Every 8 years your mattress doubles in weight from leftover skin gunk and such" to "Get a new mattress every 8 years!!!" Seriously. Is double-weight the breakeven point?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:58 pm UTC

Didn't you know? Buying a new one is better than learning to clean the old one!
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Zohar » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:02 pm UTC

After eight years I expect the mattress will be pretty rubbish anyway... I like a firm mattress, my current one (which is I don't know how many years old) is pretty sunken. I should get a new one at some point. They're just sooo expensive...
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby meatyochre » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:09 pm UTC

Yeah the price of mattresses is freaking prohibitive. That's why I've slept on an air mattress or futon for the last 4 years of my life.

It's pretty much not a big deal for me. Mattress is last on the list of my priorities and I just never get around to saving up for it.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:19 pm UTC

emceng wrote:


I'm too lazy to look it up, but wasn't there a ferry that ran between the mainland and island? And it ran every half hour or hour? And considering the population density of Alaska, why the crap wasn't the ferry good enough?

Why would the population density improve when you have to wait a half-hour or an hour just to get to the airport, much less actually go through it?

I know this case keeps getting cited as "Ridiculous spending by the Government" but.. yeah, I just don't see it.

The Island is rather large. And not being used for much... because getting back and forth isn't as easy as it would be with a bridge. Now, should such a bridge have cost $400 million? I have no idea. I know nothing of construction costs and even less of the specialized needs of Southern Alaska. I also know that Palin's handling of the situation is... well, about what we've come to expect from her. Bumbling cartoon villainy.

But should there be a bridge there? I don't see why not. Should the airport have been built on the other side of the water? Maybe? I don't know why it was built where it was built, but there it is.

It's one of those "They spent $640 on a toilet seat?!" kind of things - where the important information about what it was for gets left out. I don't find it any more ridiculous than all the Federal funding California gets, or New York, or Illinois, or Florida.. or any other state for fairly major projects that assist in interstate commerce.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Giant Speck » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:32 am UTC

Here's a good article I once read about the Gravina Island Bridge:

Once again Ketchikan's Gravina Access Project is in the news. Ten years ago we thought the bridge was expensive; now estimates are approaching $398 million. There are plenty of arguments pro and con-especially considering the price tag, but it's time to lose the misleading label, "Bridge to Nowhere."

News media pundits have described Ketchikan's Gravina Access project as a bridge from Ketchikan to an island with only a few dozen residents, but that's not an accurate picture. Each year over 500,000 people travel between Ketchikan and its international airport on Gravina Island. With no roads and limited boat service, the Ketchikan International Airport is the only way in and out of the city for most folks.

For those who are still having trouble picturing the transportation issue in this popular-but-isolated Alaskan city, let's use your home town as an example. Use your imagination:

  • First, dig a moat around the International Airport near your town. Make that moat about a quarter to a half mile wide with varying terrain on both sides. Put ships in the moat-ships on which your community depends for its existence; ships tall enough to require a 200-foot clearance to pass under any bridge.

  • Put one ferry on the moat that makes a round trip to the airport every thirty minutes. Charge each passenger 5 dollars to walk onto the ferry and ride one way; much more if they want to take their vehicles. The ferry is small, often filled to capacity, with minimal room for passengers to sit during the 7 or 8 minute ride across the moat.

  • Make folks walk from the ferry to the airport terminal, uphill, on a concrete sidewalk (no escalator) that is sheltered from frequent wind and driving rain by a plexiglass roof and windscreen on one side. Most people carry their own bags regardless of size or number, age or infirmity, unless they want to pay a private "airporter" service for assistance.

  • Now place your community emergency services on the side of the moat AWAY from the airport, except for one or two crash trucks and one or two firemen. In an emergency, additional ambulance personnel, firemen, rescuers, policemen and bomb technicians will all have to wait for the little ferry in order to respond to any emergency at the airport. All of your airport employees will ride the little ferry to work, and home again at the end of the day.

  • Put a small parking lot near the ferry terminal on the city side of the moat, where folks can park while they stand in the rain and wait for the ferry.


Now that you've customized your airport to provide the same level of service as the Ketchikan International Airport, let's modify your town:

  • Erase all of the roads leading into or out of your town. That's right, they don't exist. Your only way out is by ferry or air. You will likely find yourself flying several times a year.

  • Surround your town with water and mountains, leaving little room for expansion or small industry of any kind.

  • Add a statewide ferry system-a few 350-foot vessels that will carry up to 499 passengers. Let these boats stop in your town several times each week, usually at inconvenient hours; only once a week does a boat connect to Seattle, a 3-day trip each way. Make them comparatively expensive to ride.

  • Finally, take another look at the small island on which the airport sits. It is quite large-95 square miles-with large areas of gentle terrain and room for some small industries, warehouses, shipping companies, boat marinas, recreational opportunities, parks, and some top-notch waterfront residential property.


Now that you have the picture, we can start discussing the proposed bridge. There is plenty to talk about in terms of costs, benefits, economics and aesthetics. Some folks are in favor of the project; some are against-but let's stick to the facts.

This is clearly a bridge to "somewhere." It's time to lose the politically inspired, misleading and insulting title, "Bridge to Nowhere."
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Xeio » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:39 am UTC

Hrmmmm, a commercial where a woman is sitting on a plane next to "the talker" and goes "time to watch my favourite show" on her phone... except what happens when the flight attendant comes over and tells her to turn it off...?

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Eastwinn » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:57 am UTC

philsov wrote:How in the world does someone make the connection between "Every 8 years your mattress doubles in weight from leftover skin gunk and such" to "Get a new mattress every 8 years!!!" Seriously. Is double-weight the breakeven point?


Doubles in weight? Citation needed there. I don't believe that one bit. Sounds up there with "did u kno that u swallow 8 spiders on avrage evry year!?!?1". And why do I need my mattress cycle to be regulated by someone else? Can't I judge for myself?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Poochy » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:44 am UTC

Eastwinn wrote:Doubles in weight? Citation needed there. I don't believe that one bit.

I recall seeing a segment on Dirty Jobs on the Discovery Channel about mattress recycling while I was flipping channels, where they did mention that mattresses do gain a significant amount of weight over time due to things like skin cells and dust. However, if I remember correctly, the number was usually nowhere near double the original weight before people usually threw them away.

I'd expect the increase in weight over time to asymptotically approach some saturation point ('cause if it increased linearly while the volume remained about the same, eventually it'd have to collapse on itself and form a black hole), so perhaps someone took the early portion of a mattress's lifespan and extrapolated a la comic 605.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Armadillo Al » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:29 pm UTC

rrwoods wrote:
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I saw an advertisement on a DVD promoting a "Never Before Seen, Brand New, Full-Length, Blu-Ray, Motion Picture Event".

This was for a direct-to-DVD Disney movie.

There comes a point where you have to stop with the superlatives.

Grrr.... Someone needs to be fired.

For what...upselling?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:22 pm UTC

Armadillo Al wrote:
rrwoods wrote:
Oregonaut wrote:I saw an advertisement on a DVD promoting a "Never Before Seen, Brand New, Full-Length, Blu-Ray, Motion Picture Event".
Grrr.... Someone needs to be fired.

For what...upselling?

I saw an advertisement on a VHS Tape promoting a "Never Before Seen, Brand New, Full-Length, DVD, Motion Picture Event".

Make more sense when I move everything back a generation? Or did I misinterpret the upselling joke?
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:33 pm UTC

Hey, misquoting me. I'm just annoyed at the superlatives.

rrwoods was the one who went off on the blu-ray/dvd rant.
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Armadillo Al
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Armadillo Al » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:16 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I saw an advertisement on a VHS Tape promoting a "Never Before Seen, Brand New, Full-Length, DVD, Motion Picture Event".

Make more sense when I move everything back a generation? Or did I misinterpret the upselling joke?

I got it the first time, I just don't see the problem with a company trying to sell a Blu-Ray system to a family that doesn't have one yet. (Then again, I usually find myself way too cynical for my own good.)

I will admit that it qualifies for this thread under 'douchebaggery', though. I just disagree with the 'fallacy' part--people without Blu-Ray are not necessarily outside the target market for selling Blu-Rays.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Oregonaut » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:23 pm UTC

My point was the superlatives. They're trying to make Little Mermaid 3 out to be the next Full Metal Jacket life changer. They needed to cut down on the superlatives.
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The EGE wrote:
Mumpy wrote:And to this day, librarians revile Oregonaut as the Antichrist.

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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby Dason » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:04 pm UTC

Oregonaut wrote:My point was the superlatives. They're trying to make Little Mermaid 3 out to be the next Full Metal Jacket life changer. They needed to cut down on the superlatives.

Everybody check out Oregonaut's brand new, never before seen, once in a lifetime, epic, life changing, safe for work, on the internet, available through most browsers, ultra sexy latest post.
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Re: Logical fallacies/douchebaggery in commercials.

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:42 pm UTC

Dason wrote:
Oregonaut wrote:My point was the superlatives. They're trying to make Little Mermaid 3 out to be the next Full Metal Jacket life changer. They needed to cut down on the superlatives.

Everybody check out Oregonaut's brand new, never before seen, once in a lifetime, epic, life changing, safe for work, on the internet, available through most browsers, ultra sexy latest post.

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