"Too soon."

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"Too soon."

Postby Hooch » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:21 am UTC

I'm no sadist, but I enjoy my black humor every now and then. This was especially prevalent in high school, where my antics included a Virginia Tech* joke and posting Encyclopedia Dramatica quotes on MySpace on the day of Michael Jackson's* death. Inspired by an inane YouTube comment using the recent Asian earthquake* as a humorous source, I have to ask: How soon is too soon? Weeks? Months? 2 years? 5 years? Morality is relative, obviously, but I find it a good topic to discuss. Could we even create a formula of sorts to figure out when to make a dark joke and when not to?

Note: Outright trolling doesn't count. Light trolling, maybe; but the MySpace stunt I pulled is disqualified from any formulas. Feel free to debate otherwise.


*I, in no form or fashion, enjoyed the deaths of those involved. They were, in my opinion, horrible incidents, and the jokes were/are fleeting and primarily used for shock value.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby RebeccaRGB » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:07 am UTC

South Park standard is 22.3 years.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby TimelordSimone » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:16 am UTC

My friend posted this on his Tumblr yesterday.
Spoiler:
Image


I think it depends on your audience. Among friends (and on the Internet) all bets are off, really. Part of the humour of these jokes is the shock value, and the fact you know you shouldn't find them funny.
TV shows and such couldn't get away with making these jokes that early though.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:22 am UTC

Hooch wrote:Xould we even create a formula of sorts to figure out when to make a dark joke and when not to?
No. It relies far too much on individual taste that's either impossible to map mathematically* or would result in a formula complex enough that one could not quickly do it mentally.



*Well, okay, nothing's impossible with Math, but Fucking' Hell that'd be a lot of variables.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Aetius » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:24 am UTC

If they laugh, it's not too soon. If they don't, well you just done fucked up.

Unfortunately it's one of those "don't know until it's too late to change course" rules of thumb.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby PatrickRsGhost » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:27 am UTC

A lot of the "dark" jokes usually come out within 48 hours of the event they reference.

One I had heard at work earlier this past week was:

How much blow did Charlie Sheen do?
Enough to kill 2-1/2 men.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby mmmcannibalism » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:22 am UTC

PatrickRsGhost wrote:A lot of the "dark" jokes usually come out within 48 hours of the event they reference.

One I had heard at work earlier this past week was:

How much blow did Charlie Sheen do?
Enough to kill 2-1/2 men.


Is that really dark humor though?

Trigger(about tsunami)
Spoiler:
the example I saw the day of was a pic of Japan that said hold f11
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Xeio » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:50 am UTC

Full screen tsunami?

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Kang » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:48 pm UTC

As has been said there is no definite mark, it depends on who you are, who you are telling it to, what the event you are joking about is and how 'close to home' the joke might be. Possibly even more factors.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby scarecrovv » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:53 pm UTC

As others have said, it depends on who you're talking to more then how long ago it was. If I were talking to a Japanese person, or someone who knows someone in Japan, I wouldn't joke about the tsunami. I could joke about it to anyone else though. Virginia Tech - I wouldn't joke about it to anyone from the area, or anyone who's children went there. Michael Jackson - Not only do I not know anyone who knew him, but the probability that I ever will know such a person is so low that I never felt inhibited.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:18 pm UTC

A good measure of maturity would be the understanding of when to not make such a joke. If you need to ask, or wonder whether or not it'll offend, chances are you shouldn't.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Menacing Spike » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:26 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:A good measure of maturity would be the understanding of when to not make such a joke. If you need to ask, or wonder whether or not it'll offend, chances are you shouldn't.


That's a very boring definition of maturity.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:34 pm UTC

Which is why it's not my definition, but a measure.

Just look around these fora for various words people want others to not use flippantly. Simply being a dick isn't humorous. You've got to do it intelligently.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Josephine » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:44 pm UTC

mmmcannibalism wrote:
Trigger(about tsunami)
Spoiler:
the example I saw the day of was a pic of Japan that said hold f11

I saw a Haiti version of that. I laughed.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby The Scyphozoa » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:48 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:Full screen tsunami?

Holding it makes the screen shake.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby big boss » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:55 pm UTC

Spoiler:
my favorite ones come from south park: about a week after Steve Irwin died "you'll die faster than Steve Irwin in a tank full of sting rays" or in the episode where cartman literally tries to sell a truck full of aborted fetuses and the person he is selling them to is trying to undercut him and cartman than says "I'm just like these aborted fetuses, I wasn't born yesterday ya know..." I had to pause the video for a few seconds to fully take in these jokes when I heard them.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Hooch » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:10 pm UTC

When I mentioned the formula, I was hoping for a scenario similar to Comic 314 ( http://xkcd.com/314/ ), but oh well.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby drkslvr » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:42 am UTC

Alright, if you want to do it mathematically...

Start with the US age distribution
Figure out how long it will take for 95% of a random sample of people to die
After 95% of the people killed in a tragedy would have been dead anyway, you can make jokes about it.
Don't forget to adjust if you happen to know that it wasn't a random sample of ages and genders. Note how some events become joke material in a different order than they occurred. This is because they weren't random samples of ages or genders.

I wanted to make it easy on you all, so I did some of the "math" for you. Feel free to mark your calendars. :)

Boston Massacre: 1825
Pearl Harbor: 2003
Apollo 1 Fire: 2004
World War II: 2007
Holocaust: 2019
Kent State Massacre: 2022
Challenger Explosion: 2025
Jim Jones Mass Suicide: 2052
September 11 Attacks: 2060
Virginia Tech Shooting: 2065
Oklahoma City Bombing: 2070

Coincidentally, this system offers the first mathematical model for why the movie Pearl Harbor was such a dud. Clearly, it was so poorly done that they could only have been intending to mock the actual tragedy. Since they were two years too early, the joke fell flat.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Roĝer » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:06 pm UTC

But if you have to wait this long, most people will have already forgotten the original event, thus making the joke useless, except for the really big events like World Wars.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby You, sir, name? » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:18 pm UTC

Too soon is when the catastrophe is in progress. You can't joke about Japan yet, as there are still victims being found.

Beyond that, there's an okay-if-it's-funny clause. You can tell a pretty damn unfunny beer flood joke without being an asshat. But if you want to joke about Virginia Tech, it had better be some seriously hilarious material.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby zmatt » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:30 pm UTC

Agreed. For example;

"You guys hear about the new Haitian pop sensation, New Blocks on the Kid? I hear they really bring the house down!" *rimshot*
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby TaintedDeity » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:49 pm UTC

No, he said funny.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby drkslvr » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:43 am UTC

Roĝer wrote:But if you have to wait this long, most people will have already forgotten the original event...

Ah, I was kind of being ridiculous... I mean, can you imagine Holocaust jokes being okay, ever? Shoot, they're illegal in Germany. Now, that's funny, but the Holocaust itself isn't.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Hooch » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:13 am UTC

zmatt wrote:Agreed. For example;

"You guys hear about the new Haitian pop sensation, New Blocks on the Kid? I hear they really bring the house down!" *rimshot*


Or my friend quoting "Footloose" by Kenny Loggins.*

*In that particular photo, only the feet were visible from beneath the rubble.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Antimony-120 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:25 am UTC

drkslvr wrote:
Roĝer wrote:But if you have to wait this long, most people will have already forgotten the original event...

Ah, I was kind of being ridiculous... I mean, can you imagine Holocaust jokes being okay, ever? Shoot, they're illegal in Germany. Now, that's funny, but the Holocaust itself isn't.


First time I head the joke about lighters and nostalgia was from a Jew who had escaped (related, my friends have amazing grandparents). A lot of his friends died in those fires, and I would never have started the jokes, but he told them as fast as, in his own words, "a machine gun on an escaping inmate". It was just his way of dealing with the issue when that part of his past came up. So I disagree, I think they can be okay. They're not okay if they blame the victims, and they're certainly something to be watched, but I would not say they're never okay.

Satire and black humour are not always appropriate, but they can also be powerful tools in the mocking of the ideas that occured in the first place, and ways to get past tragedy.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:37 am UTC

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby roband » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:50 am UTC

Magnanimous wrote:
Spoiler:
Image


See, that's funny. But only based on my one experience of a TV show, and I'm sure the whole place isn't like that and... oh, it was funny.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby zmatt » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:32 pm UTC

Incorrect, Jersey is and always has been completely irredeemable. It's where taste and civility go to die in a vat of spray on tan and nair.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:35 pm UTC

drkslvr wrote:Now, that's funny, but the Holocaust itself isn't.


How do you get 40 jews into a car?

You pack them all into the ashtray.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby roband » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:38 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
drkslvr wrote:Now, that's funny, but the Holocaust itself isn't.


How do you get 40 jews into a car?

You pack them all into the ashtray.


This took me 4 reads to understand. I don't know if that's good or bad.

I didn't laugh though.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby zmatt » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:42 pm UTC

Whenever my friends and I get into dark humor my black friend always wins. He has the advantage of knowing every race joke ever written for both sides. He says he wont tell us what they say about white people cause it's "top secret". Anyways a few of his favorites.

Two fish are in a tank ,one says to the other ,"I'll drive, you man the main gun." (yeah not dark, but still awesome)

What sucks about being black and jewish?
Spoiler:
You have to stand at the back of the oven.


Why wont blacks go on a free cruise?
Spoiler:
cause we ain't falling for that shit again


After that we normally devolve into dead baby jokes

what gets louder as it gets smaller?
Spoiler:
a baby in a trash compactor


what is worse than 10 dead babies in a tree?
Spoiler:
one dead baby in 10 tress.


My social circle has a long and storied tradition of busting each others chops and when not around polite company, trying to be the worst people ever. From what I can tell this is general true of most American males.


edit:

@TaintedDeity, it's all about the delivery dude. half of these jokes aren't when read, but are when told. And shock value is everything.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby roband » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:49 pm UTC

I prefer:

Two fish are in a tank, one says to the other, "Do you know how to drive this thing?"

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby TaintedDeity » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:52 pm UTC

The only advantage to these jokes when told in person is that I'm generally close enough to headbutt people. Not because they're offensive, (To me, I'm sure some people would find them offensive.) but because people think they're being so clever and dark, when really they're repeating the same boring shit over and over.

I was hoping the thread would be a discussion and not "lololol let's share our edgy and cool jokes because we're so dark and shocking"
Apparently I was wrong.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby roband » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:53 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:The only advantage to these jokes when told in person is that I'm generally close enough to headbutt people. Not because they're offensive, (To me, I'm sure some people would find them offensive.) but because people think they're being so clever and dark, when really they're repeating the same boring shit over and over.

I was hoping the thread would be a discussion and not "lololol let's share our edgy and cool jokes because we're so dark and shocking"
Apparently I was wrong.


Why did the minority cross the road?
Spoiler:
To get away from these shit jokes.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:54 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:The only advantage to these jokes when told in person is that I'm generally close enough to headbutt people. Not because they're offensive, (To me, I'm sure some people would find them offensive.) but because people think they're being so clever and dark, when really they're repeating the same boring shit over and over.

I was hoping the thread would be a discussion and not "lololol let's share our edgy and cool jokes because we're so dark and shocking"
Apparently I was wrong.


Nobody said anything about dark and edgy? It's your own interpretation?

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:04 pm UTC

Oh boy, we started with F11 Earthquake jokes and appear to be closing with some good ol' fashioned racist jokes that "are totally okay because my black friend said they were"

You know, as if an individual could possibly speak for an entire group on what is and is not acceptable behavior in a public space.

If this whole discussion continues being a shit repository of disaster, racist and dead baby jokes, I'm going to trash the whole damned thing. Take it back to the theoretical.
Last edited by SecondTalon on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:13 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby roband » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:12 pm UTC

Yeah, "Too soon" totally doesn't refer to racist jokes anyway.

I think there should be a formula based on the amount of time since the incident, the number of people affected, the popularity/likeability of the people affected etc.

Someone cleverer than me could probably create something.

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Re: "Too soon."

Postby Diadem » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:57 pm UTC

There's no such thing as 'too soon'. Like Aetius said, if your audience laughs, it was ok, if they don't, you fucked up. It doesn't matter how much time passed, what matters is how your audience responds. And that depends on the audience.

No matter your audience though, the jokes you tell say something about you. But what it says depends on context. This is why a holocaust survivor can get away with telling holocaust jokes. Because we know he doesn't mean it badly, it does not reflect negatively on him as a person. A white person telling racist jokes however is another story. Now we get suspicious. Depending on context, we might be entirely ok with it, or we might not be. It depends on the joke, the setting, the audience, and our prior opinion of the person telling the joke. If a good friend of mine tells a racist joke, but I know with certainty he is not racist, but just likes dark humor, I won't be offended. But if on the other hand I already know he has some dubious views, and suspect him of caring little about other people, I might be offended. Even if its the same joke, told to the same audience (me).

Personally, I can immensely enjoy dark humor. It is my experience that if told right, you can get away with almost anything. As long as it is clear that you like dark humour, and you tell those jokes to tease people, not because you mean them.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby zmatt » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:27 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Oh boy, we started with F11 Earthquake jokes and appear to be closing with some good ol' fashioned racist jokes that "are totally okay because my black friend said they were"

You know, as if an individual could possibly speak for an entire group on what is and is not acceptable behavior in a public space.


I don't think one's apartment is public space. Comedians get away with a lot, but I think that's due to them actually being funny. I agree that tasteless racial jokes aren't fun and are a very bad idea, but in the context of one's personal circle of friends who are you to judge? Getting back on the theoretical I think the tolerance of dark humor and how soon it is is directly related to how funny it is and the group in question.

SecondTalon wrote:If this whole discussion continues being a shit repository of disaster, racist and dead baby jokes, I'm going to trash the whole damned thing. Take it back to the theoretical.


No need to take things so serious, we just got a little off topic.
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Re: "Too soon."

Postby roband » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:28 pm UTC

This is the public space he was referring to.

You told the jokes HERE.


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