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SecondTalon
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Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:23 am UTC

Barbie wrote:If you have a "hidden crush" on a friend, just be careful how you approach the situation when you're ready to reveal your feelings. My story from the other side:....


.. no, that's the guy being a jerk. There's a difference.
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Postby Cosmonaut Smut Peddler » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:33 am UTC

I'll add to he sentiment that timing and how you go about telling your secret crush are crucial. Also, not being a total douche and pulling some under-handed bait/switch alienation game will get you mad game points even if she doesn't like you, and may offer you to chance to change her feelings; I'm not saying just because you liek somebody it'll work out, but given an oportunity, and a long enough time line and speaking up pays off a lot better than shutting up.

Here was my situation: I had made best friends with a girl who actually happened to have dated my brother. She was oving away when I finaly confessed I liked her, thankfully the feelings were mutual, however she hated lng distance relationships. I had a lot going against me. We are still best friends three years later and now have been dating for six months after failed relationships on both parts and a realization of how much we felt for eachother.

Again, not saying it all always works out, but you'd be better off bringing it up in a non-creepy way and if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't but don't forget that it may pan out later in life aswell.

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Postby rockintom99 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:18 pm UTC

Bah. I hate being so damned shy. I would always have crushes, but I still have yet to act on them. I don't think I really fear the rejection, but more feel sorry for them *if* they did go out with me. I think I have some self esteem issues...
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SecondTalon
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Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:00 pm UTC

Hey, if you think they're out of your league and they still go for it.. go you. There's no shame in getting the better end of the bargain.
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.

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sarahnade
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Postby sarahnade » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:28 pm UTC

wing wrote:The reasoning is actually fairly simple. Societal pressures say that the guy should never hold a crush and should never be an initiator. We're supposed to be "hard." So we keep these feelings to ourselves. After all, we're already risking so much by having a very close female friend.


<rant>
(Well apparently) I'm pretty old fashioned, but I am a firm believer that the guy is the initiator. If a guy isn't man enough to suck it up and ask me on a date, he's not man enough for me. Besides, why does it have to be such a big deal? It could just be "Hey, you're pretty cool. I'd like to get to know you better. Let's go eat." Really, is that so bad? Or is she simply not worth it?
</rant>

My apologies, guys. It just... comes out sometimes.
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ArchangelShrike
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Postby ArchangelShrike » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:30 pm UTC

Boys are stupid.

(Coming from a guy)

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:34 pm UTC

(Well apparently) I'm pretty old fashioned, but I am a firm believer that the guy is the initiator. If a guy isn't man enough to suck it up and ask me on a date, he's not man enough for me. Besides, why does it have to be such a big deal? It could just be "Hey, you're pretty cool. I'd like to get to know you better. Let's go eat." Really, is that so bad? Or is she simply not worth it?


No offense, but that tends to put me off someone.

If I'm going to have to initiate everything and do all the work in the relationship, I'll take a pass, thanks.

Granted, insisting that the man initiate the relationship in the beginning isn't *necessarily* an indicator that he will need to initiate everything from that point forward, but it's a bad sign.

It also tends to accompany a "you should be able to read my mind, so I'm never going to communicate with you, ever" mindset that I find infuriating.

Just some observations and extremely broad generalizations, but they're strong enough that when I encounter the "the man should initiate the relationship" attitude, it tends to send me running.
Last edited by Belial on Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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aldimond
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Postby aldimond » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:38 pm UTC

EDIT: This comment is in response to Sarahnade's! This board moves so fast!

See, I don't see that as so much a gender issue as a practical relationship issue. If you're not a person that will take the risk and ask someone out, a relationship with another such person may well be a disaster, because it would never go anywhere because nobody would take the risk to say the things to push it places.

Under a certain set of gender roles maybe men are expected to do that. That doesn't mean that's the only way it can go down. I don't think it's a "not man enough" thing, though it probably would mean a guy wasn't right for you.

(I frequently have crushes of various types on very shy people. I think I've realized that, as a very shy person myself, that's not a good idea.)
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Postby arcticfox.sq » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:56 pm UTC

*is trying to interpret alimond's post in a dirty way*
*fails, until further notice*

Anyways, I agree with Belial (as a girl). These roles should be shared, some guys can be shy, too. And it's pretty intimidating if you're not giving any indication of reciprocal feelings. That's why I tend to start dropping hints and trying to let them know I'm interested without actually saying it... since I'm kinda shy too when it comes to actually asking someone out.

As for the roles in a relationship, I find myself being whatever the guy isn't. If he's outgoing, I gladly take the backseat and let him lead (that's not to say he'll be the initiator of everything, it's just I'd tend to wait for a cue); if he's the shy type, I find myself being a lot more agressive, an more often the initiator.
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aldimond
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Postby aldimond » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:34 pm UTC

arcticfox.sq wrote:*is trying to interpret alimond's post in a dirty way*
*fails, until further notice*


*looks at username*
*wonders why so many people leave out the 'd' when they talk about him here* :P
*thinks that it's better than in real life, where people tend to stick an 'a' in his last name for the lulz*

Yeah, I'm not sure there's much you can do with that post.

This post, on the other hand... I'm sure you can imagine lots of fun things to do with this post.
One of these days my desk is going to collapse in the middle and all its weight will come down on my knee and tear my new fake ACL. It could be tomorrow. This is my concern.

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wing
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Postby wing » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:38 pm UTC

sarahnade wrote:
wing wrote:The reasoning is actually fairly simple. Societal pressures say that the guy should never hold a crush and should never be an initiator. We're supposed to be "hard." So we keep these feelings to ourselves. After all, we're already risking so much by having a very close female friend.


<rant>
(Well apparently) I'm pretty old fashioned, but I am a firm believer that the guy is the initiator. If a guy isn't man enough to suck it up and ask me on a date, he's not man enough for me. Besides, why does it have to be such a big deal? It could just be "Hey, you're pretty cool. I'd like to get to know you better. Let's go eat." Really, is that so bad? Or is she simply not worth it?
</rant>

My apologies, guys. It just... comes out sometimes.
If by "pretty old fashioned" you mean "Not caught up in popular culture bullshit pressures" you're right :P

Up until some indeterminate point in the very recent past, guys were supposed to ask girls out and that's the way it was. Now we're supposed to sit around and just "attract" the female set (hereforth known as "booty") passively. How? I dunno. Big penises, denoted by lots of bling? Obnoxious mufflers on our 1995 CRX's? By actively trying to push a woman out of your life through abuse to strengthen her commitment?

This culture became popular because it's very attractive to us as an animal. We can prettymuch just shut off all our higher mental functions and leave it to our environment to bring the procreation to us. 0 effort, infinite reward. Or at least, that's how it's advertised.

Certain portions of the female population (specifically, the part that has herpes and hasn't heard of feminine hygiene and has 18 kids already and no job) have subscribed to this notion as well, and this has given this theory credibility, because it LOOKS like it works. But the simple reality is that all the decent segments of the female population still subscribe to older models, which males are called "wusses" and "pussies" for even lending a thought towards.




Yeah, I don't get it, either.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:43 pm UTC

Or maybe if people just acted on their interests regardless of which gender is "supposed" to make the first move.

First one to get the nerve (or the urge, if nerve isn't your limiting factor) pops the question, regardless of the presence or absence of swinging bits.

Nah, that's crazy-talk.
Last edited by Belial on Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:54 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Castaway
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Postby Castaway » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:45 pm UTC

sarahnade wrote:(Well apparently) I'm pretty old fashioned, but I am a firm believer that the guy is the initiator. If a guy isn't man enough to suck it up and ask me on a date, he's not man enough for me. Besides, why does it have to be such a big deal? It could just be "Hey, you're pretty cool. I'd like to get to know you better. Let's go eat." Really, is that so bad? Or is she simply not worth it?

Uhh, that isn't asking someone out, that's just asking them to a meal. Totally not the same. I did that just today and did it work? No, I just ended up having lunch with a girl.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.

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wing
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Postby wing » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:58 pm UTC

Belial wrote:Or maybe if people just acted on their interests regardless of which gender is "supposed" to make the first move.

First one to get the nerve (or the urge, if nerve isn't your limiting factor) pops the question, regardless of the presence or absence of swinging bits.

Nah, that's crazy-talk.
Humans, especially Americans, are FREAKING OBSESSED with the swinging bits. It motivates everything they do.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:14 pm UTC

Speak for yourself.
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wing
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Postby wing » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:26 pm UTC

You're a raptor, remember?

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Postby Vandole » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:35 pm UTC

wing wrote:Humans, especially Americans, are FREAKING OBSESSED with the swinging bits. It motivates everything they do.

That's a pretty crazy stereotype you've got there. I can tell you it's false; Canadians, Aussies, Brits, pretty much everyone is just as obsessed with the bojangles as Americans are.

I also agree with what Belial said, but unfortunately there's such things as fear of rejection, low self-esteem, pessimism, awkwardness, social anxiety etc. stopping people from just approaching each other when they're interested. Then again, if those things weren't a factor, I think social interaction would be a little weird. Insecurities define our actions most of the time.
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Postby tessuraea » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:46 pm UTC

As soon as queer people are part of the discussion, ideas about which gender is supposed to take the initiative look very silly. What, I should never ask a woman out? :) Not that I have the guts to...

I like shy people. A lot. I am one, though you wouldn't always know it to look at me. I am also often completely clueless when it comes to signals of attraction from men, and completely unable to tell women when I have crushes on them. I don't usually get crushes on guys, but when I do I can act on them easily. To me, men are not scary, women are.

It's hard, when someone tells you he's in love with you, to know what to do. It's happened to me a few times--not a comment on my amazingness, more my being a geek/gamer chick who tends to be friendly. Anyway, I haven't figured out a way to say "I don't mind you feeling that way, but I'm not interested in you" without things getting awkward later.
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ArchangelShrike
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Postby ArchangelShrike » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:56 pm UTC

Now we need a new shirt:

Front: "Just shy, not anti-social / You can ask me out!"

Walk up to your crush with a jacket on, and then take it off while he/she is looking. Hooray for witty t-shirts!

Yes, it may be hard to walk up and talk to them, but if you can't do that, what about a note or a sign? Or trying to be funny? A sign could work, or even a shirt. Try to communicate something.. And as most things go, it's easier to cut off unwanted relationships early rather than wait for the to die from old age (a blossoming romance). Not that I have any one-liners for rejection.

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Postby Jesse » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:59 pm UTC

I constantly carry a notepad with me anyway, so once (Back in my shy days) I approached a woman with a piece of paper torn form it. On it were the words "I am afraid your beauty has quite stolen my voice at this moment in time. However, if you'd like to go for coffee with me I am sure it will return in short order."

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ArchangelShrike
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Postby ArchangelShrike » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:04 am UTC

That's pretty nice. I wish I had mind enough to remember to carry a notepad and pen.

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Barbie
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Postby Barbie » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:24 am UTC

Belial wrote:Or maybe if people just acted on their interests regardless of which gender is "supposed" to make the first move.

I know that I really respect people who make the first move, because it tells me that they are willing to communicate and be honest with me, regardless of the risks involved. It also tells me that their feelings for me are independent of any knowledge about my feelings for them. It tells me that they have enough self-respect actively pursue what they want. It lets me know that I will not have to do all the work in a relationship.

That said, I would expect people who I could be in a relationship with to have a similar mentality. If we all took on this approach, none of us would ever get together.

So if I value the quality of my companion, it is in my best interest to wait the other person to make the first move, and risk no companion at all. If I value companionship in and of itself, I would make the first move myself, and risk poor companions. Most people value both. Acting on your interests isn't always black and white.

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Postby Dibley » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:25 am UTC

wing wrote:
stuck wrote:How many people at your school do you actually know, though?

I think the last time I had a crush on someone (other than my English Lecturer Gail Jones) was back in grade three. That's at least 14 years ago.
Heh, at my school, I knew EVERYONE (not hard when there are only 1200 of you). There was one girl that struck the appropriate balance of easy-on-the-eyes and not-dumb, and not totally freaking full of herself or so religious she breathed fire and brimstone (aka all the chicks in the GT level classes), but alas, she was attached to the mythical football player from the rival school. Best I ever got was a very nice hug-n-grope on graduation night in the staging tunnel under the stage. I mean, she grabbed my ass, that's license, right?


That's funny a hell. You have no license to talk about small high schools. Mine was 138, with 48 in my graduating class. I really did know everyone. Complete shit for dating opportunities though.

And yes, ass-grabbing counts.

I have done that with 4 major friends, and innumerable semi-close friends. It has been reciprocated twice, but I only found out much too late on both times. I tend to briefly fall in love/infatuation/whatever with any reasonably close female friend, but I usually get over it.

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tessuraea
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Postby tessuraea » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:27 am UTC

That's interesting, Barbie.

I actually really value introverted people, shy or not... precisely the people who don't manage to tell me they're interested. I have no desire at all to wait and see if the other person says anything first--none at all. Either I initiate the conversation or I devoutly wish I could get up the nerve to initiate the conversation.

This is perfectly consistent with what you posted--it's just that what I value in a companion is a bit different.
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Insignificant Deifaction
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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:39 am UTC

My problem was always that I knew I was an undesirable, this goes beyond geeky, I was an undesirable and I had a small selection pool anyway (unusual sexuality).

So... I never tried...
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PM Me, if you care for a chat.

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Castaway
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Postby Castaway » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:05 am UTC

Jesster wrote:I constantly carry a notepad with me anyway, so once (Back in my shy days) I approached a woman with a piece of paper torn form it. On it were the words "I am afraid your beauty has quite stolen my voice at this moment in time. However, if you'd like to go for coffee with me I am sure it will return in short order."

Did it work? I would have thought you were childish and disingenuous (no offense).

@InsignificantDeification: Might I respectfully inquire that you divulge further?
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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Insignificant Deifaction
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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:20 am UTC

Unusual Sexuality: Lesbian

Undesirable: Lisp, strange skin tone (we're fairly homogeneous in this part of Britain, except for me), Geeky, Social Anxiety, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Atheist (or as they knew it (since I never told), not constantly prostrating myself before God). . . Need I go on?
Belial wrote:You are giving me the tools to sodomize my vast imagination, and for this I am grateful.

PM Me, if you care for a chat.

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Castaway
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Postby Castaway » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:24 am UTC

I've seen less desirable. I thought you were like a hermaphrodite that was really into S&M with midgets and a side of bestiality.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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une see
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Postby une see » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:27 am UTC

Castaway wrote:I've seen less desirable. I thought you were like a hermaphrodite that was really into S&M with midgets and a side of bestiality.


*cough* Don't go knocking bestiality. It happens to really turn me on. On occasion.

Okay, maybe never...One of my pet peeves is when people spell it "beastiality. "
T.S. Eliot in "The Waste Land" wrote:APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:28 am UTC

If I was a hermaphrodite they would have force-selected me.

But anyway, 1) I never described my sexuality, nor do I have any intention of it, just sexual preference.
2) Have you ever seen how unattractive someone can be whilst in the midst of having a fit over something poorly organized?
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PM Me, if you care for a chat.

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Castaway
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Postby Castaway » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:32 am UTC

But I thought you don't have that compulsion. o_O

Also, I'm just saying that it could be worse. Basically, you're a nerdy lesbian with some ticks. That could be much worse.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:43 am UTC

It wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the reduced selection pool, you would think that it would be the other way around, but really, the reduced selection pool means you have to be better to get someone.

And why did you think I don't have what compulsion?
Belial wrote:You are giving me the tools to sodomize my vast imagination, and for this I am grateful.

PM Me, if you care for a chat.

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Castaway
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Postby Castaway » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:44 am UTC

The compulsion to keep everything clean/neat/organized.

Also, by selection pool do you mean locally or globally?
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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Insignificant Deifaction
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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:53 am UTC

Organization is my facet of OCD, and it is in everything I do.

Selection pool, it was essentially locally when it mattered, as meeting someone long distance would be completely impractical. However, the larger the small selection pool seems, the worse the effect is, it's high standards -> extreme standards. The reasoning to this is that in the small selection pool, your chances of meeting someone willing to settle for you are significantly smaller, if they are in the global selection pool, your chances of meeting someone willing to settle are negated by the idea that there are other fish in the sea.

Plus, there's a lot of pressure on lesbian relationships to be perfect and completely defensible and all of that, simply because they're unique and certain people want an end to homosexuality.

Not that it really matters anymore, I'm quite taken.
Belial wrote:You are giving me the tools to sodomize my vast imagination, and for this I am grateful.

PM Me, if you care for a chat.

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une see
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Postby une see » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:56 am UTC

Insignificant Deification wrote:Organization is my facet of OCD, and it is in everything I do.

Selection pool, it was essentially locally when it mattered, as meeting someone long distance would be completely impractical. However, the larger the small selection pool seems, the worse the effect is, it's high standards -> extreme standards. The reasoning to this is that in the small selection pool, your chances of meeting someone willing to settle for you are significantly smaller, if they are in the global selection pool, your chances of meeting someone willing to settle are negated by the idea that there are other fish in the sea.

Plus, there's a lot of pressure on lesbian relationships to be perfect and completely defensible and all of that, simply because they're unique and certain people want an end to homosexuality.

Not that it really matters anymore, I'm quite taken.


O_o Then...what's the problem...? Obviously, your significant other didn't think you were that undesirable...
T.S. Eliot in "The Waste Land" wrote:APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

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Insignificant Deifaction
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Postby Insignificant Deifaction » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:00 am UTC

For the purposes of this thread I regressed to before my relationship. Even now I still don't see how I'm desirable.

This is all logical conjecture based on eyewitness research.
Belial wrote:You are giving me the tools to sodomize my vast imagination, and for this I am grateful.

PM Me, if you care for a chat.

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Belial
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Postby Belial » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:15 am UTC

une see wrote:*cough* Don't go knocking bestiality. It happens to really turn me on. On occasion.


::scoots away *very* slowly::

...wait...

::scoots back:: Does that include dinosaurs? If so....How you doin'?
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Castaway
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Postby Castaway » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:22 am UTC

Belial puts the best in bestiality.
You've just lost twenty dollars and my self respect.



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une see
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Postby une see » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:29 am UTC

I totally clarified that I don't actually get turned on by bestiality. Well, kind of...I'm not a furry-lover. :(

I put the "lity" in "bestiality." "lity" for "reality"

Reality...TV?
T.S. Eliot in "The Waste Land" wrote:APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Memory and desire, stirring
Dull roots with spring rain.

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Swordfish
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Postby Swordfish » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:13 am UTC

Belial wrote:
No offense, but that tends to put me off someone.

If I'm going to have to initiate everything and do all the work in the relationship, I'll take a pass, thanks.

Granted, insisting that the man initiate the relationship in the beginning isn't *necessarily* an indicator that he will need to initiate everything from that point forward, but it's a bad sign.

It also tends to accompany a "you should be able to read my mind, so I'm never going to communicate with you, ever" mindset that I find infuriating.

Just some observations and extremely broad generalizations, but they're strong enough that when I encounter the "the man should initiate the relationship" attitude, it tends to send me running.


As Belial's statement here is just about exactly my feelings in the area, I am now no longer convinced that he is not an elaborate illusion created by my repressed personality (who has dreams of genetically engineering raptors) whose sole purpose is to slowly drive me to such a point of insanity that he'll finally be able to take over my body and work unleash his raptor terror unto the world.

Now for something completely different: a contribution to this thread.

Through my 21 years of life I've only had two girlfriends: one of which with someone who had been a friend of mine for some time, and the other (which lasted four years) was with a girl that I had really not known that well (only knew her for about 4-5 months) at the time I asked her out.

The "crush" phase with my first girlfriend was, looking back at it, painfully ridiculous. We both had crushes on each other for about six months before her best friend got sick of us dancing around each other and told me that she had a crush on me, which prompted me to ask her out.

With my second girlfriend, I was pretty much sitting around one day and went "Holy crap, I think I like her." This one took much less time for me to ask her out as, I spent a few days to figure out if I actually did have a crush on her, and then, inspired by what had been a bizarre week of good luck for me, asked her out.

Right now, I got nothing. I haven't really had a lot of opportunity since the end of that last relationship (February), but I'm not in any sort of a rush.

Though I do anticipate that my diminutive stature could be a bit of a problem in the future. I've got a skin condition on my back too, but I can probably get away with calling it a scar and making up a story about how I got it saving a kitten from an exploding water heater or something :D .
"If I had a nickel for every time I was wrong, I'd be broke." Stephen Colbert


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